New K2 S9900

[christo]

You are indeed a lucky man ,

Some pictures for us to droool over would be brilliant if you have time !
:applaud:
Rich

Thanks all for your suggestions on power! But when you have K2s sitting in your basement - inferior sound was just not on nor was I gong to wait as long as I previously had to upgrade my system.

Krell Evolution 525a source, 202 pre, and 600 mono blocks interconnected with Krell CAST.

[scott fitlin]

WOW, I must say, your system looks incredible. The amps look dynamite, and the JBL's look OUTSTANDING.




:thmbsup:

[caladois]

:dj-party: only lucky ?

[richluvsound]

Christo,

Incredible ..... and a house reno by the looks of the background . Will this be the listening room ?

Rich

[Titanium Dome]

It's been a while since I posted in this thread, not for lack of interest but because I've been busy listening. Er, ah, yep, listening as in auditioning various electronics, rather than spending my time listening to you guys. :rotfl: (It's a pun; cool down!)

Am I going to tell you the results? Nope. Too early. Still gear to come.

There's also some used gear I might want to bring in, like the ARC pre that Grumpy tipped me on, then I missed it. I was using his Proceed pre as a point of comparison, but it needed to be taken out of the chain, so I'm settling on a new point of comparison, which will slow the process down a bit.

Am I going to tell you what I've tried so far? Nope. Not enough hours accumulated yet.

I have made one decision, though. I'm definitely/probably/maybe following Widget's suggestion to use the Oppo BDP-83SE (eventually) with its upgraded DAC on the stereo outs. That lets me focus on amps and pres, and possibly a couple of integrated amps. This is made possible by the impending release of the Oppo BDP-93 which can take the 83SE's place in the Synthesis® system.

This is by far a more difficult process than any other stereo rig I've owned. The good news is that there's plenty of high-performing gear at very reasonable prices (under $2k) that competes well with under $5k gear. For the miniscule improvements I'm hearing so far, I'm unconvinced that paying twice as much for a 5-10% improvement is a reasonable expenditure.

Put another way, I hear no electronics that make the same kind of difference the K2s themselves make. When I heard the K2s, it was "YES." When I hear the various amps and pres, it's more like "maybe, maybe not" in terms of any difference, and that's not too compelling.

The biggest difference so far seems to be the ability or inability of an amp to grab hold of the 15" woofer.

[Robh3606]

Put another way, I hear no electronics that make the same kind of difference the K2s themselves make.

Exactly most bang for your bucks.


The biggest difference so far seems to be the ability or inability of an amp to grab hold of the 15" woofer.

Too bad you couldn't run a Crown down there. Sacrilege I know but they will grab and not let go.

Rob:)

[richluvsound]

Doug,


I would get Heathers opinion on the Oppo gear. I mean no disrespect to Widget , but from what I hear and read they maybe a bit of a flash in the pan ...

Are you googling too ? I don't mean the funded reviews either :D

Rich

[Mr. Widget]

Doug,


I would get Heathers opinion on the Oppo gear. I mean no disrespect to Widget , but from what I hear and read they maybe a bit of a flash in the pan ...

Are you googling too ? I don't mean the funded reviews either :D

RichNo disrespect taken... if you follow up on Heather's thread I think you'll find that Heather is quite pleased with Oppo and how they handle their customers... and if you read my posts where I recommended the Oppo SE it was only as a bang for the buck... I didn't think it good enough to keep in my system, but for under a grand it is probably the best solution.

Widget

[Mr. Widget]

Put another way, I hear no electronics that make the same kind of difference the K2s themselves make. When I heard the K2s, it was "YES." When I hear the various amps and pres, it's more like "maybe, maybe not" in terms of any difference, and that's not too compelling.Agreed... and why I have always had far more funds allocated to my speakers than the rest of the system... of course there is no hurry, but once you arrive at a system like the K2... spend a few years and a commensurate amount on the rest of the system and it will continue to improve.

Widget

[Titanium Dome]

Doug,


I would get Heathers opinion on the Oppo gear. I mean no disrespect to Widget , but from what I hear and read they maybe a bit of a flash in the pan ...

Are you googling too ? I don't mean the funded reviews either :D

Rich

They've been in my pan for a long time. :) I have three Oppo units, each still in service and doing quite well. I suppose I could upgrade to the Lexicon version. ;)

[4313B]

I wonder if this is a bit too low rent for your K2's. I've never heard it myself.

[Mr. Widget]

I suppose I could upgrade to the Lexicon version. ;)Harman is blowing them out since they can't get any more Oppos to go inside those pretty chassis. :banghead:


Widget

[christo]

Put another way, I hear no electronics that make the same kind of difference the K2s themselves make. When I heard the K2s, it was "YES." When I hear the various amps and pres, it's more like "maybe, maybe not" in terms of any difference, and that's not too compelling.

The biggest difference so far seems to be the ability or inability of an amp to grab hold of the 15" woofer.

When I was audition electronics there was a particular sound I was looking for and it did involve the getting the woofer fully engaged (amongst other things). I just could not stomach listening to the K2s with the anemic bass output my current gear was producing.

When I went back to audition electronics we started with Krell Evolution 525a/202/600/CAST…audio nirvana was realized, I did listen to an Esoteric X-05 CD, BRYSTON BP26 PreAmp/28B SST2 amps combination, unfortunately (especially for my wallet) they were not even in the same ball park. If you haven’t heard the K2s with a Krell stack in CAST mode then you have not heard even half of what K2s are capable of.

The Everest/K2 and Krell CAST technology were made for each other. CAST pulls out every detail and nuance recorded by the artist and the K2 delivers it to your ears. Delivers is probably a poor choice of words to describe the effect, floats it out, silently appears in the ether, etc.

It is unbelievable the sound field that develops, the only thing that comes to mind is sorcery. You sit there thinking to yourself how can this be happening, as the goose bumps rise on your arms and a silly grin is pasted on your face. With CAST you feel like you have been enveloped by this liquid river of sound, you’re totally submerged and drowning, but have no desire to be rescued.

Over the years many claims have been made about 3D sound, with home theatre, multiple speakers and the associated recording technology things have gotten close. The K2s with Krell CAST make it happen, on many occasions I have been listening to them and then this magical thing happens the K2s disappear the music is all around you, up, down, side to side, behind you. Try as you might to focus on each individual speaker you just can’t distinguish one from the other. The stereo imaging of the K2s is extraordinary, never heard anything like it.

If possible I strongly recommend somehow auditioning this combination just to get an appreciation of what the K2s can achieve.

[Audionutz]

When I was audition electronics there was a particular sound I was looking for and it did involve the getting the woofer fully engaged (amongst other things). I just could not stomach listening to the K2s with the anemic bass output my current gear was producing.

When I went back to audition electronics we started with Krell Evolution 525a/202/600/CAST…audio nirvana was realized, I did listen to an Esoteric X-05 CD, BRYSTON BP26 PreAmp/28B SST2 amps combination, unfortunately (especially for my wallet) they were not even in the same ball park. If you haven’t heard the K2s with a Krell stack in CAST mode then you have not heard even half of what K2s are capable of.

The Everest/K2 and Krell CAST technology were made for each other. CAST pulls out every detail and nuance recorded by the artist and the K2 delivers it to your ears. Delivers is probably a poor choice of words to describe the effect, floats it out, silently appears in the ether, etc.

It is unbelievable the sound field that develops, the only thing that comes to mind is sorcery. You sit there thinking to yourself how can this be happening, as the goose bumps rise on your arms and a silly grin is pasted on your face. With CAST you feel like you have been enveloped by this liquid river of sound, you’re totally submerged and drowning, but have no desire to be rescued.

Over the years many claims have been made about 3D sound, with home theatre, multiple speakers and the associated recording technology things have gotten close. The K2s with Krell CAST make it happen, on many occasions I have been listening to them and then this magical thing happens the K2s disappear the music is all around you, up, down, side to side, behind you. Try as you might to focus on each individual speaker you just can’t distinguish one from the other. The stereo imaging of the K2s is extraordinary, never heard anything like it.

If possible I strongly recommend somehow auditioning this combination just to get an appreciation of what the K2s can achieve.

As a new JBL 1400 user, all I can say is 1400 Array + Krell KSA 150 = closest to Nirvana so far :D

The Krells just seem to have what it takes to get the best out of the modern JBL's, and yet when I've heard them on some older more sensitive (less refined ??) JBL's, I've been less than impressed. All about the synergy I suspect.

Cheers

'Nutz

[Titanium Dome]

I wonder if this is a bit too low rent for your K2's. I've never heard it myself.

Sadly, it does not seem to be a good match. :( It's a very nice product, and in the right combination, I think it would be a stellar performer.

I might keep it for something else, though. I've got a few more days to try it out with other speakers.

[Titanium Dome]

Hey everyone, I was going to post some impressions of amps I've been auditioning. In rereading the thread to get things back in context in my mind, I got stuck reading and rereading Scotty's recent posts. Gosh, he was so happy about all this and genuinely enthusiastic (like so many of you) about the K2s and my experience with them...

Everyone has been supportive and kind in their comments, and I think I'm close to a decision. Lots of small things are adding up to big things where the K2s are concerned. I'm happier with them every day; blissful, actually.

But remembering Scotty and missing his unflagging optimism about current music and current systems has put a little melancholy cast over my head, so I'll just wait to catch everyone up.

On a forward-looking note, grumpy, jbladdict, and I might be seeing each other this Saturday at Hsu to do a little Research that may add to the K2 saga.

[caladois]

You should definitively try a THRESHOLD AUDIO S/5000e amplifier. These products are very musical and have affordable price. :) The company is based in Texas. Mail Kevin Lee, He might be able to find a test solution for you.

[Hooster]

What a fantastic thread, thanks so much Titanium dome.

[Titanium Dome]

You should definitively try a THRESHOLD AUDIO S/5000e amplifier. These products are very musical and have affordable price. :) The company is based in Texas. Mail Kevin Lee, He might be able to find a test solution for you.

Thanks, I did get in touch with Threshold. We'll see how the follow up is.

[Titanium Dome]

I had a graduation party tonight for the employees who finished the assignment for their Senior Executive Training Class. I tasked them with creating an emergency transition plan (in case I die or go crazy for real), present it to the board, and get the board to adopt it as company policy.

At the party, the K2s drew the admiration of one young man in particular who plays guitar in a local band. He was mesmerized by them. We kept cranking them louder and louder until everyone was forced to come over and listen. By then it was chest thumping, floor shaking loud, but as clear and unforced as a whisper. Toes tapped, heads bobbed, arms meringued, and hips swiveled.

These are all 20 and 30 somethings, who don't get much exposure to this kind of musical quality. "Better than a concert..." was the general consensus. The musician quipped, "The kick on that drum is just like when I'm on stage!"

So here I am almost to my sixth decade, admired by people half my age or less all thanks to the K2s. :p (Or maybe because I'm so old but still alive in their eyes.)

And then...

[Titanium Dome]

After they left and we were finished cleaning up, there was some open Champagne and some strawberries and chocolate to dip them in, so Huiky suggested we go over to the couch and listen to some music. The log in the fireplace was still burning and a few candles were lit.

We put on the Heart disc she likes so much and listened from start to finish. She eventually dozed on my lap while Ann and Nancy finished their set. The K2s looked gorgeous in the flickering light, the room was warm, the music was warm, the sound was so perfect and effortless--from knock the house down rock and roll to delicate, soft ballad, these babies can do it all.

---------------

And yes, in case you're wondering, I'll keep mentioning moments like these, in part because I think it's a testament to the staying power of the design and its execution that I can be continually amazed by them. For me music is a very personal thing, and to have found a product that elicits such an ongoing response seems remarkable; therefore I remark. :D

[Hooster]

I had a graduation party tonight for the employees who finished the assignment for their Senior Executive Training Class. I tasked them with creating an emergency transition plan (in case I die or go crazy for real), present it to the board, and get the board to adopt it as company policy.

At the party, the K2s drew the admiration of one young man in particular who plays guitar in a local band. He was mesmerized by them. We kept cranking them louder and louder until everyone was forced to come over and listen. By then it was chest thumping, floor shaking loud, but as clear and unforced as a whisper. Toes tapped, heads bobbed, arms meringued, and hips swiveled.

These are all 20 and 30 somethings, who don't get much exposure to this kind of musical quality. "Better than a concert..." was the general consensus. The musician quipped, "The kick on that drum is just like when I'm on stage!"

So here I am almost to my sixth decade, admired by people half my age or less all thanks to the K2s. :p (Or maybe because I'm so old but still alive in their eyes.)

And then...

"These are all 20 and 30 somethings, who don't get much exposure to this kind of musical quality. "Better than a concert..." was the general consensus. The musician quipped, "The kick on that drum is just like when I'm on stage!""

That's what it's all about. Too much hi fi is dead, sterile and overly analytical. Sounds like you have your cake and you are getting to eat it too.

I think there are quite a few high end speakers out there that cost considerably more than yours that are really no match for the mighty K2.

Cleaning up after a party should not be too bad, as long as you can crank up the K2s while you are working :D

[JBLAddict]

After they left and we were finished cleaning up, there was some open Champagne and some strawberries and chocolate to dip them in, so Huiky suggested we go over to the couch and listen to some music. The log in the fireplace was still burning and a few candles were lit.

We put on the Heart disc she likes so much and listened from start to finish. She eventually dozed on my lap while Ann and Nancy finished their set. The K2s looked gorgeous in the flickering light, the room was warm, the music was warm, the sound was so perfect and effortless--from knock the house down rock and roll to delicate, soft ballad, these babies can do it all.

---------------

And yes, in case you're wondering, I'll keep mentioning moments like these, in part because I think it's a testament to the staying power of the design and its execution that I can be continually amazed by them. For me music is a very personal thing, and to have found a product that elicits such an ongoing response seems remarkable; therefore I remark. :D

Doug, so sorry to keep hearing of your buyer's remorse for not getting the Revels :D

[Titanium Dome]

Doug, so sorry to keep hearing of your buyer's remorse for not getting the Revels :D

:rotfl:

You got me there!

[Titanium Dome]

Yesterday Roger Dressler (now retired) of Dolby Labs came over, accompanying one my friends, Sanjay Durani, from the LA Home Theater Group. Roger saw some of the calibration graphs (thanks Grumpy) from the Two Jims Theatre that I posted online and wanted to come hear the Synthesis® system, as he was intrigued by the calibration curve and general set up. My buddy said, "Oh yeah, I know the guy."

On the way through the house, we stopped at the K2s. "I really need to hear those." So we did. Naturally, he had his own disc with some very nice recordings on it, as well as test tones and other stuff. He gave me the disc when he left. :)

I had a pile of gear sitting around, trying to work my way through to the "perfect K2 component combo," and he scrutinized it briefly. Before long we were turning things on and off, plugging and unplugging stuff, and he was carefully listening to things that, unassisted, I would not have heard.

Grumpy can attest to this TiDome phenomena; he's seen me "not hear it" many times.

Based on Greg Timbers' previous advice to get a good amp or two and passively bi-amp the K2s, along with a sub or two, I had some multichannel amps, stereo amps, and a variety of subs. Here's where we ended up.

FAA 1000.5 amp: using four of the five channels to passively bi-amp the K2s. JFET/MOSFET/switching power supply/trans-ana design/200W/ch
FA 4125 amp: four channels bridged to two to power two subs. MOSFET/toroidal/225W/ch
JBL S3S Synthesis® subs. LE120H-1/ported/THX
Outlaw 990 in two channel stereo with bass management; sub crossover set at 40 Hz
Panasonic XP50* player using optical out to the 24/192 DAC in the Outlaw

There's a lot more to the story, including his tweaking of my Performance Series set up (which he called "one of the best; perfect for me. It sounds the way I want music to sound.") and his reaction to the Two Jims Theatre (including, "Wait 'til I tell Fosgate he's got a fan!" I guess they're pretty close having worked on PLII, etc.), but for this thread, I'll summarize the rest regarding K2.

I'm sending every piece of auditioning gear back tomorrow. I'm not buying any new electronics for now* :no:, because I am very, very pleased with this set up. :yes: I'm simply going to enjoy it and stop messing around for a while. I see no reason to spend $3-$5k for an amp when these amps sound better right now, or $1.5-$2k for a pre when this one surprisingly excels in this regard. I'm sure much of it must be component interaction and Roger's expert ears. He just knew what to do to get the most out of this combination, and he only cared about the best sound, not the brand. I could mix and match for months and not get it this good.

Well, yeah, who knows? :dont-know: Maybe next year...

Naturally I took them both out for a big lunch at a nice portside restaurant after that, then they were heading back to the airport where he could catch his plane home to Bend, OR. Many, many thanks! :)

--------------------------

* I'll eventually bring in the Oppo BDP-83SE and use its DAC and two-channel analog outs when its replacement arrives for the Two Jims Theatre.

[edgewound]

Very cool. Nice Sunday treat.

TiDome...Your home is an envious collection of JBL goodies.

You have every right to be proud and share your experiences of what you've assembled.

[Titanium Dome]

Due to the recession, Huikyong's credit union skipped the annual holiday dinner for the second year, so we ended up hosting just the Accounting and Finance Departments. To keep costs down, I volunteered to cook rather than have catering, so between the cleaning, the cooking, and the entertaining, it was a busy frickin' day.

At her request, I played holiday music at a low level on her now favorite speakers, the K2s. I streamed stuff from my iPad so people could be entertained by the album art as they listened. Everyone was impressed with the overall look of the K2s, but of course listening to Xmas music at low levels while 30 people talk is not really a true K2 experience.

There was the obligatory trek down to the Two Jims Theater for an ear-popping, eye-popping demo, then we went back upstairs and one of the husbands asked, "So where did you get those (pointing at the K2s), Best Buy? That's where I buy my audio gear."

Grr-r-r-, but I kept my cool. "No, I bought these through a specialized dealer in San Francisco. The Synthesis® stuff downstairs came from a dealer in Memphis."

"Oh. that was pretty impressive, better than my Bose, but these seem to sound about the same."

Grrr-r-r-r-r!

"We like the little speakers. You can hardly see them, but they put out amazing sound. These are just too big, and I don't think my wife would let them in the house. They're kind of old style, right?"

Grrr-r-r-r-r-!! After pulling my tongue out of my throat, I responded, "Actually these are brand new, state of the art, cutting edge units. See how the cabinents have no flat sides? See how the horns are integrated into the design. This driver is Beryllium, this one is Magnesium, the first of its kind. See this battery compartment? It's for charge-coupling the networks..." and on I went.

His reply, "Wow, I don't understand most of that. I guess that's good. Have you heard Bose? I don't hear any difference."

Grrr-r-r-r-r-r-r-r!!! I decided to risk my relationship and stopped the Xmas music. "Sit down fellas, and let me show you what these babies can do." I asked my main commentator, "What do you like to listen to?"

"We go clubbing a lot and we like dance tracks. You probably don't have any."

(Guess again, Sherlock.) "Sure I do. Look, here's Ultra Dance 2010. Which track do you like?"

He picked one. Huikyong inquired from the next room, "What happened to the music?"

"Oh, these guys want to hear something."

(Various comments from the ladies about men/boys and their toys. So I held back a little bit on the volume.)

As soon as the track started, eyes got wide, glances were exchanged, feet started tapping and heads bobbing, and "Wow! This is great! It's like being in the club, only better. Amazing! it's super loud, but it's so clear; it doesn't hurt at all." etc. Even the ladies gyrated in place.

After the demo he asked, "So where can I get these ? I don't think I can listen to my Bose anymore. It sucks." Thankfully at that moment his wife said, "What you have is fine! Thanks, Doug, now he'll be begging for these." So I didn't have to tell him he'd never pay what these cost. If he thought they could be bought at Best Buy, I'm sure he was thinking maybe a couple of grand.

Anyway, mission accomplished: Bose crushed and myth debunked. New reverence for JBL by several men who had no clue beforehand. Women put in their place--oh wait, man put in the dog house is probably more like it. :D

:happyh:

[polar_bear_0104]

yohoo!!!:applaud:

my daughter the other day asked me who I was talking to when we were in her room watching telly...i told her, "no one sweetheart." truth is, i was muttering to myself while the Bose commercial was on. When the line " you just wouldn't believe that kind of sound coming out from those boxes......" were careening from my right to left ear, giving me a migraine.:banghead:

[timc]

HAHAHA. Great story TiDome. Thats the way to show them Bose people! :applaud:

[ronaltronics]

Way to go.

No concept of quality. Will that be a Quartz watch or automatic............

Bose Please..

[Robh3606]

" you just wouldn't believe that kind of sound coming out from those boxes......" were careening from my right to left ear, giving me a migraine.:banghead:

You just have to turn it around. Yes I do believe what I hear and I don't like it. Works for me.

Rob:)

[caladois]

Yesterday Roger Dressler (now retired) of Dolby Labs came over, accompanying one my friends, Sanjay Durani, from the LA Home Theater Group. Roger saw some of the calibration graphs (thanks Grumpy) from the Two Jims Theatre that I posted online and wanted to come hear the Synthesis® system, as he was intrigued by the calibration curve and general set up. My buddy said, "Oh yeah, I know the guy."

On the way through the house, we stopped at the K2s. "I really need to hear those." So we did. Naturally, he had his own disc with some very nice recordings on it, as well as test tones and other stuff. He gave me the disc when he left. :)

I had a pile of gear sitting around, trying to work my way through to the "perfect K2 component combo," and he scrutinized it briefly. Before long we were turning things on and off, plugging and unplugging stuff, and he was carefully listening to things that, unassisted, I would not have heard.

Grumpy can attest to this TiDome phenomena; he's seen me "not hear it" many times.

Based on Greg Timbers' previous advice to get a good amp or two and passively bi-amp the K2s, along with a sub or two, I had some multichannel amps, stereo amps, and a variety of subs. Here's where we ended up.

FAA 1000.5 amp: using four of the five channels to passively bi-amp the K2s. JFET/MOSFET/switching power supply/trans-ana design/200W/ch
FA 4125 amp: four channels bridged to two to power two subs. MOSFET/toroidal/225W/ch
JBL S3S Synthesis® subs. LE120H-1/ported/THX
Outlaw 990 in two channel stereo with bass management; sub crossover set at 40 Hz
Panasonic XP50* player using optical out to the 24/192 DAC in the Outlaw

There's a lot more to the story, including his tweaking of my Performance Series set up (which he called "one of the best; perfect for me. It sounds the way I want music to sound.") and his reaction to the Two Jims Theatre (including, "Wait 'til I tell Fosgate he's got a fan!" I guess they're pretty close having worked on PLII, etc.), but for this thread, I'll summarize the rest regarding K2.

I'm sending every piece of auditioning gear back tomorrow. I'm not buying any new electronics for now* :no:, because I am very, very pleased with this set up. :yes: I'm simply going to enjoy it and stop messing around for a while. I see no reason to spend $3-$5k for an amp when these amps sound better right now, or $1.5-$2k for a pre when this one surprisingly excels in this regard. I'm sure much of it must be component interaction and Roger's expert ears. He just knew what to do to get the most out of this combination, and he only cared about the best sound, not the brand. I could mix and match for months and not get it this good.

Well, yeah, who knows? :dont-know: Maybe next year...

Naturally I took them both out for a big lunch at a nice portside restaurant after that, then they were heading back to the airport where he could catch his plane home to Bend, OR. Many, many thanks! :)

--------------------------

* I'll eventually bring in the Oppo BDP-83SE and use its DAC and two-channel analog outs when its replacement arrives for the Two Jims Theatre.

So, can you tell more about the amp you use to drive your dear K2s ? What's a FAA amp ?

[Titanium Dome]

So, can you tell more about the amp you use to drive your dear K2s ? What's a FAA amp ?

The FAA 1000.5 is a Fosgate Audionics Amplifier with five 200W amp modules in it. it's a Class G amp. Yes, not an A, AB, D, or H, but a G.

http://www.fosgateaudionics.com/products/FAA_1000_5.asp

It's a dreamy amp with JFET inputs and MOSFET outputs in a Trans•ana design. I'm using four of the five channels for the K2s, plus the bridged four-channel Fosgate Audionics 4125 to drive the two subs.

Here's an interesting if slightly bizarre analysis of the amp if you're curious.

http://www.iar-80.com/page77.html

I find I agree with most of it and scratch my head at the rest of it.

These are Jim Strickland designs, an outgrowth of his patented work at Acoustat (which he founded BTW), along with Mark Albers at Rockford Fosgate. I think it was around $3500 new.

[Titanium Dome]

Over the past three weeks we've had guests in the form of my son (one week) my daughter and grandson (two weeks), families from my direct report staff at work, members of Huikyong's department, girls' night out (not me), and my former assistant, so finally at 2 PM yesterday it was all over. :applaud:

We were exhausted, and after I did some cursory cleaning, she suggested we start a fire, sit in the living room with snacks and wine, and listen to Christmas music on the K2s. Sure, why not?

So we turned on our little Christmas tree, lit the fire, lit a few candles, played some Wynton Marsalis and Andrea Bocelli Christmas music, drank wine, ate snacks, and relaxed. I reminisced a bit about the times after my parents bought the Magnavox console stereo when I would sneak downstairs after midnight and listen to the Messiah or other Christmas music, lying on the floor between the console speakers, listening at volumes so low the music could barely be heard.

We didn't have indoor plumbing or central heat, and there was only one electrical outlet in the house, but we had a Magnavox console plugged into it, and it was heaven to me, freezing on the bare wood floor. Well, hey! The K2s are a long way from that! But that's certainly where the seed was planted for bigger and better gear.

Long story short, the K2s continued to work their magic at Christmas time, and Santa even provxxx a xxxxxxxx xxxx!

With every passing day, these beauties increase in value to me, while the cost of ownership seems smaller and smaller as the days go by.

[tom1040]

Quote: had to copy/paste:

And yes, in case you're wondering, I'll keep mentioning moments like these, in part because I think it's a testament to the staying power of the design and its execution that I can be continually amazed by them. For me music is a very personal thing, and to have found a product that elicits such an ongoing response seems remarkable; therefore I remark.

That's great td. I had the same kind of moment with the 1500/1400 Array(s). I have some McIntosh sources which are not really liked on this board but, to me-and that is all that counts, continue to deliver my kind of sound. Smooooooooth and, yes, I shared it with my West Coast Swing dancing wife (cancer free!!!). Sweet.

Staying power has great affect on women (& design).

Happy holidays everyone-I hope everyone is healthy. THAT is the MOST important thing in life. Be well.

[Titanium Dome]

Came home tonight to music playing in the house. Darned if she didn't figure it out and turn on the K2 system all by herself and groove to it. :D

This from a person who is as technophobic as they come: "I don't understand this stupid stuff! It's too complicated."

Except, apparently, where the K2s are concerned. ;)

[Titanium Dome]

I came into a pair of Synthesis® S2S 15" passive subs for a few hundred bucks. :banana: I thought, this will be a better sub to go with the K2s.

Yesterday I pulled out the S3S subs and put the S2S subs in nearly the same place, moved the K2s out just a bit more, re-toed them, and let her rip! OH MY! :eek:

First order of business: lower the subwoofer output by a couple of dB.

Second order of business: play that French House standard by David Guetta, "Love Is Gone."

Third order of business: drool and grin like a fool.

Fourth order of business: check my pants.

Fifth order of business: answer the front door. OOOPS! :no_wag:

Widget, wherever you are, you really had a point about the S2S. Amazing sub. I wouldn't trade it for the S1S in a HT, but as a 40 Hz and below adjunct for music, it's incredi-burg-ible.

[4313B]

I'm sorry to have to say it in public but the S2S is nowhere near the same caliber as the K2-S9900.

[Titanium Dome]

I'm sorry to have to say it in public but the S2S is nowhere near the same caliber as the K2-S9900.

Don't be sorry; you're right. It's obvious in every detail. There's no reason not to tell the truth.

Fortunately, I only need them to work below 40 Hz and not very loudly at that. I'd say 95% or more of what I play is never going below 40, and I can just leave them off or damped by the amp.

But when it's time to play club mixes, dance, and trance, well then, they give it to me, and they give it to me hard. I've openly admitted to being a bass whore who can't resist the pumping and pounding.

[audiomagnate]

I love the K2s S9900s. But I might love the Array 1400's even more. I am so conflicted. The 1400s seemed to be able to float a voice in the room better, which I know sounds like audiophile bullshit. Different rooms, different amps etc. but damn, you guys are on to something.

[Titanium Dome]

The Arrays are superb, no doubt. I love the SAM1 units in my HT. Personal taste does come into play though, as I like the K2s better overall.

When I got the chance to hear Array 1400, K2, and Ultima2 Salon in the same room, it was instantly clear to me I had to have the K2s. In fact, in that room I would have chosen the Revel Ultima2 Salons over the 1400 Arrays, and I nearly bought the Salons since they're much less expensive. But the K2s haunted me, teased me, left me restless with desire.

It's hard to describe the difference without using language that does sound like BS, but I know there's a difference, and I really like the K2s more. To me, the 1400 Arrays seem "tonally deeper and darker" in direct comparison, but seem "tonally open and light" when auditioned alone. :wtf:

At half the price, the 1400 Array is a stunning deal and a great bargain, easily eclipsing much more expensive speakers. IMO it does not eclipse the K2, and at my age it's balls-to-the-wall, no-holds-barred, get-it-while-you-can, leave-no-regrets, let's-git-'er-done time. :)

[ronaltronics]

It is very true what Titanium dome has said about the Array 1400's and the K2.

The Array 1400's are amazing in every way but once you hear the 9900's done properly there is no going back.

I tell people the same thing with expensive things in life. If I always just read about them instead of purchasing some things along the way, I may never enjoy life,and it may end up being to late.

We all just go around once.

[Valentin]

I have the Array 1400 in a nice soundroom and in our show room we have the K2

our showroom is not a great room and under those conditions some pepole have told me that the arrays sound better

but too me the K2 simply do a better job and i know the room is playing a big roll

K2 are simply excelent 1400array are just great

both bring art into our homes.

just my two cents

[Mr. Widget]

At half the price, the 1400 Array is a stunning deal and a great bargain...Er, um... 1/4 the price. ;)

Here is an excerpt from a post I just made on another thread that briefly reitterates my take on these two great speakers:

..., the sound of the K2-S9900 would satisfy you beyond belief... however it does cost $44,000 a pair. You might find the much more affordable 1400 Array enjoyable, but it is definitely not quite as dynamic and the bass is a bit heavy and the upper bass/lower mids are not quite as articulate... this is not to say that I find this speaker displeasing... I love it and enjoy the hell out of my pair, but being as objective as I can be, I can hear slight aberrations from some unattainable ideal. That said, I had the opportunity to acquire a pair of the K2s and chose the 1400 Arrays even though aesthetically I preferred the K2s and there were many subtle sonic improvements. Cost was a consideration as was the need of an external sub or two to make the K2 do exactly what I felt I needed. Basically what I am saying is that even at this level there are significant compromises that must be weighed and considered.


Widget

[tom1040]

I am curious if anyone has used a really high power on the Array's-perhaps similar to what James Tanner of Bryston used when he had my pair......28B SST2? I know the speakers are 'rated' @ 300wpc but I would bet that a really great amp such as that MAY eliminate some of the bass issues that some people have.

I would love to find out.

[timc]

Have heard the 1400's with a high power Crest PA amplifier. It sounded like there was thunder inside the room.

So yes. Having an amplifier with great control of the woofer is a must. But I don't believe that watts is all the answer.

[Titanium Dome]

Er, um... 1/4 the price. ;)

Here is an excerpt from a post I just made on another thread that briefly reitterates my take on these two great speakers:



Widget

You're right, as I wrote here a long time ago it seems:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?28824-Everest-II-Audition&p=292325&viewfull=1#post292325

Old age is a drag.

And I really do believe you about the sub(s), too. Despite my rationalizing of the S2S subs above, that range of 40 Hz down to 25 Hz makes a discernible difference on some of my favorite music. I'll just tone it down when Grumpy comes over. :D

[edgewound]

The K2/Synthesis demo in the trailer at CES was impressive. The trailer is not the best atmosphere to showcase this kind of system, though...but it was nicely isolated from any nearby competing demos.

The Array 1400 demo was decent until the turntable was loaded with a scratchy, distorted piece of vinyl.

I hope some Harman people visited Andrew Jones in the TAD suite to hear/see how a high-end demo should be done.

The finest loudspeaker/music system on the planet today is the TAD Reference One....and they are expertly showcased every year at CES by Mr.Jones. TAD manufactures everything in the system. MSRP $78,000/pair...~$195,000.00 for the complete TAD 2 channel system not including cabling-bling.

The Revels on display were quite an impressive demo as well, and Kevin Voecks is a great guy. $22,000/pair.

[christo]

So yes. Having an amplifier with great control of the woofer is a must. But I don't believe that watts is all the answer.

Having auditioned the Bryston 28B SST and KRELL Evolution 600 with K2 99s the difference between how each amplifier controlled the woofer was night and day. The bass with the KRELL was deeper, smoother, tighter and kudos to the K2s for being absolutely effortless.

The greatest joy I get from the K2/KRELL combo system is how quietly you can play it with absolutely no loss of detail headphones for me are a thing of the past.

I was actually quite surprised to see Ti Dome adding sub-woofers to the K2 - man you’re messing with perfection :bouncy:. Mind you my preference for bass somewhat leans toward the other side of the pacific.

[Titanium Dome]

I was actually quite surprised to see Ti Dome adding sub-woofers to the K2 - man you’re messing with perfection :bouncy:. Mind you my preference for bass somewhat leans toward the other side of the pacific.

Understood. It's not the worst thing I've been accused of, but it is close to a crime I suppose. I feel better having had the designer recommend this, though that might have been in deference to me not having $20k-$30k to spend on electronics.

[caladois]

So the question is : will you add a super hf too ? :D

Everybody is dreaming to have test like yours

[Titanium Dome]

So the question is : will you add a super hf too ? :D

Everybody is dreaming to have test like yours

My latest hearing test a few days ago shows I can hear very well from 30 Hz (down only 3 dB) to 12.75 kHz (down 6 dB) then it drops like a rock. By 14 kHz it's almost gone (down 36dB). My right ear is gone by 12 kHz.

Since the 045Be starts at 15 kHz, I can't even hear if it's working or not. No super hf for me. :no: ;)

On the other hand, I love to feel as well as hear the ULF material, so a pair of dedicated drivers below 40 Hz works for me. :yes:

[louped garouv]

My latest hearing test a few days ago shows I can hear very well from 30 Hz (down only 3 dB) to 12.75 kHz (down 6 dB) then it drops like a rock. By 14 kHz it's almost gone (down 36dB). My right ear is gone by 12 kHz.

Since the 045Be starts at 15 kHz, I can't even hear if it's working or not. No super hf for me. :no: ;)

On the other hand, I love to feel as well as hear the ULF material, so a pair of dedicated drivers below 40 Hz works for me. :yes:

I have some friends that are legally deaf (their deafness varies person to person) that adore modern "bass music," and as you mention, it's "for the feel"

they were amongst the first I knew of embracing the recent "dubstep" trend...

kinda funny to me, but makes sense at the same time....

[4313B]

My latest hearing test a few days ago shows I can hear very well from 30 Hz (down only 3 dB) to 12.75 kHz (down 6 dB) then it drops like a rock. By 14 kHz it's almost gone (down 36dB). My right ear is gone by 12 kHz.

Since the 045Be starts at 15 kHz, I can't even hear if it's working or not. No super hf for me. :no: ;)

On the other hand, I love to feel as well as hear the ULF material, so a pair of dedicated drivers below 40 Hz works for me. :yes:I can hear just fine to 18.5 kHz and the 045Be doesn't work in that system for me either so don't feel bad. :p It's only intended for the folks who hear out to 40 kHz...

[Titanium Dome]

I can hear just fine to 18.5 kHz and the 045Be doesn't work in that system for me either so don't feel bad. :p It's only intended for the folks who hear out to 40 kHz...

I know a few self-proclaimed "golden ears" who state they can hear well past 20 even 25kHz. They also claim they don't need a hearing test to prove their incredible abilities, but at least one of these guys thinks a 5 kHz high note on a piccolo is UHF.

How's that for a point of reference?

[Mr. Widget]

I know a few self-proclaimed "golden ears" who state they can hear well past 20 even 25kHz....and they are over 18???? I haven't heard 20KHz since high school, and even then it wasn't my idea of getting high. :)


Widget

[audiomagnate]

I used to work in a bioacoustics lab where tested all of the people who participated in our experiments, most of whom were college students. Even at that age 20k was very unusual. I used to be out there but now at 55 I'm down to 14K, and pretty happy with that. I've gone out of my way over the years to protect my hearing. Many people in my age range can't hear 10K, so 18.5 is a real gift.

[4313B]

I used to work in a bioacoustics lab where tested all of the people who participated in our experiments, most of whom were college students. Even at that age 20k was very unusual. I used to be out there but now at 55 I'm down to 14K, and pretty happy with that. I've gone out of my way over the years to protect my hearing. Many people in my age range can't hear 10K, so 18.5 is a real gift.Maybe... Old TV's drive me bonkers. I don't see how anyone can stand to listen to those things wail.

We can get our hearing checked whenever we want at my current place of employment, it's an OSHA thing.

18.5 kHz isn't pleasant. It's piercingly obnoxious. 19 to 20 kHz is merely unconfortable pressure, no sound.

[audiomagnate]

Maybe... Old TV's drive me bonkers. I don't see how anyone can stand to listen to those things wail.

We can get our hearing checked whenever we want at my current place of employment, it's an OSHA thing.

18.5 kHz isn't pleasant. It's piercingly obnoxious. 19 to 20 kHz is merely unconfortable pressure, no sound.

Those flyback transformers in old TVs used to drive me bonkers too. They're at 17.5K IIRC. My parents thought I was nuts until I went into a room down the hall from the TV and had them turn it on and off and I could tell when it was on with %100 accuracy.

[jpw]

I mostly concur with Edgewound. Revel Salon 2 demo was excellent. 1400 Array demo had room related problems though. Some coloration in upper bass and lower midrange and a hot top end. The TAD demo's are excellent year after year. For this reason I've added both the TAD Reference One and Compact Reference to our product mix, which also includes the Everest. www. audiovideologic.com

[Titanium Dome]

EDIT: Comment removed.

[audiomagnate]

You had a TV? You had a room down the hall? You had a hall? Were you living in a mansion?

That'd be perfect for five K2 S9900s in the conservatory.

Was that a joke or are you just being mean? I really don't get it.

[Titanium Dome]

Sorry, your Steve Martin avatar from The Jerk led me to believe you'd get the bit, but it was too clumsy without Navin's voice. I'll keep it straight from now on.

I'll see if I can still remove it.

EDIT: Done. Now it only exists in your post, which you can remove or leave up as you wish.

[4313B]

Since the 045Be starts at 15 kHz, I can't even hear if it's working or not. No super hf for me. :no: ;)Here are some voltage drive comparisons for you:

I'm currently using the 4365 network just for fun and I simply can't appreciate the 045Be with that particular network. I think we can all agree that they sound great in the 1400 Array and the SAM1HF.

[Maron Horonzakz]

I can hear 30hz very well anything above that is excessive,,

[Robh3606]

Well all I can say is the 045Be do indeed sound great in the Array horns. You can really hear them in the Array 1400 because of the lower crossover point

Rob:)

[Titanium Dome]

Okay, I got myself in trouble, but it was because of the K2s.

After cooking her a nice dinner on Lunar New Year, which included my first--and I must say highly successful!!--shot at making Korean New Year Soup (Duk Gook), she suggested we listen to some music. Don't ask me why, but I said "No, I've got to finish some work."

And BOOM! Trouble.

Oh, I thought you wanted to spend time with me.
Oh, you're tired of those speakers now? Maybe you should sell them.
Oh, you've got work on my important holiday?
Oh, it's part of my culture, but what do you care?

:banghead:

I didn't dare bring up that it took me two hours to make the soup or point out anything else I'd done, or that she was perfectly capable of using the system herself. She wanted to listen to music on the K2s with ME, and I was too dense to get it. Ah well...

Of course, eventually it all worked out, but before those K2s came into the house this never would have happened.

[pos]

get rid of these speakers while you still can: you know it is going to be you or them one day, and you are no match, little titanium dome :D

[clmrt]

These are the problems I need. Where can I find some?

[jblsound]

I can think of a woman who always likes to listen to music with me, but she has to settle for some PT800s or C-C L212s.

[Titanium Dome]

Okay, I got myself in trouble, but it was because of the K2s.

After cooking her a nice dinner on Lunar New Year, which included my first--and I must say highly successful!!--shot at making Korean New Year Soup (Duk Gook), she suggested we listen to some music. Don't ask me why, but I said "No, I've got to finish some work."

And BOOM! Trouble.

Oh, I thought you wanted to spend time with me.
Oh, you're tired of those speakers now? Maybe you should sell them.
Oh, you've got work on my important holiday?
Oh, it's part of my culture, but what do you care?

:banghead:

I didn't dare bring up that it took me two hours to make the soup or point out anything else I'd done, or that she was perfectly capable of using the system herself. She wanted to listen to music on the K2s with ME, and I was too dense to get it. Ah well...

Of course, eventually it all worked out, but before those K2s came into the house this never would have happened.

So we've both been working long hours and six-to-seven days a weed for nearly a month. We finally had some time to relax last night and went out to a new restaurant in San Pedro. The food was good, but it turned out the place didn't have its liquor license yet, and she wanted a glass of wine.

At her request, we decided we'd have a glass at home, and her additional request was that we listen to some music. When we got home, I dropped fake log in the fireplace and lit it, opened a bottle of wine, and put Phil Keaggy's "Electric Blue" from his Music To Paint By four-CD set on.

The K2s (and S2S subs) were flawless in their intimate reproduction of this fine music. While the instrumental songs seem simple on the surface, they are full of minute details, intricate overlays, subtle harmonies, and delicate percussion. The tasteful use of trumpet, oboe, piano, and even sax in certain tracks is very well done and richly musical in an urban, downtown, spartan fashion.

With just the fire and a couple of candles lighting the room, the speakers were able to disappear visually as well as audibly, and the effect was so complete and compelling, it was simply transformative. To be able to hear every lick, pick, and trick of Keaggy's three-fingered virtuosity was as good as it gets.

We passed a wonderful evening with nothing but music as a companion, eventually adding Keaggy's "Brushstrokes" title from the set as well.

I do love these K2s and this system. :yes:

As others on these threads are discovering, there is a flurry of excellence that came out of Northridge in the past decade that deserves some attention NOW while it's still available. Some of it is being sold off at absurd prices and those who can should move on it.

Sometimes we focus on getting the best deals on older classics. Now is the time to focus on getting the best that you can afford of the amazing products from the past decade. IMO it's a much better deal in the long run.

[mikebake]

Well put.

[BMWCCA]

Sometimes we focus on getting the best deals on older classics. Now is the time to focus on getting the best that you can afford of the amazing products from the past decade. I'll just have to wait until those are older classics, too. :D

[JBLAddict]

it's been asked a few times in this thread without an answer that I can see :hmm:

K25800 and the Array 1400 share the 435AL and 045Ti, how much better if at all is the Array 1400, which has heaps and heaps of praise, with very little being said about the 19yr old(?) 5800

at 3.5K each, still seems like a fantastic bargain but folks are only jumping at the 800 and 9800 that was available

[Robh3606]

K25800 and the Array 1400 share the 435AL and 045Ti, how much better if at all is the Array 1400

Well how many of us have any real time comparing them?? I think that's where the real issue is. Until I got the 880 Array set-up in my HT set-up I had never heard or seen a stock Array system. I bet there are more like me compared to people who have had any real time with them.

I remember the 880 in Greg's set-up and just jumped on it based on that alone. I later found out his is hot-roded with a 435Be which I could do down the road. Right now I am enjoying it as is.

Rob:)

[Titanium Dome]

it's been asked a few times in this thread without an answer that I can see :hmm:

K25800 and the Array 1400 share the 435AL and 045Ti, how much better if at all is the Array 1400, which has heaps and heaps of praise, with very little being said about the 19yr old(?) 5800

at 3.5K each, still seems like a fantastic bargain but folks are only jumping at the 800 and 9800 that was available

I think you heard the SVA2100s before I sold them. Imagine that with a significantly better cabinet, a K2 top end in the middle where the single horn with a soft dome tweeter was, and superior 12 in. drivers where the ten inch woofers were. Imagine how great the single point imaging was on those when you got in the right position, then imagine a 2x improvement in the LF, a 3x improvement in the MF, and a 4x improvement in the HF. Add better horizontal dispersion, wider soundstage, and more depth.

Now you're in the ball park.

[JBLAddict]

I think you heard the SVA2100s before I sold them. Imagine that with a significantly better cabinet, a K2 top end in the middle where the single horn with a soft dome tweeter was, and superior 12 in. drivers where the ten inch woofers were. Imagine how great the single point imaging was on those when you got in the right position, then imagine a 2x improvement in the LF, a 3x improvement in the MF, and a 4x improvement in the HF. Add better horizontal dispersion, wider soundstage, and more depth.

Now you're in the ball park.

thanks Ti. I accidentally posted here instead of the 5800/9800 thread where I meant to. I gather you are illustrating what the 5800 might sound like in reference to the 2100, right?

that said, my real inquiry is how the K2 5800 stacks up against the 1400 array, given their similarities with the 435AL/045Ti but different LF drivers, and over a decade between releases? .....would buying the 5800 at the current price give you the same/similar as a 1400?

My only experience is the 4338 which shares the 435AL and 045Ti with other two and has the one 1500FE rather than the two 1200FE of the K2 5800, and as I've said many times, that ugly blue 4338 is what made the biggest impression on me during my blissful day in Japan. All logic seems to point to the 5800 being the best bargain of all the current clearance offerings, perhaps above the 9800? :dont-know:

[Titanium Dome]

I was trying to give you the 2100 as a reference point, not really compare it to the 1400 Array. It's important to note that with the two 10" drivers in the SVA2100, I frequently added subs when listening to multichannel music. When listening to dance music or when gaming, they weren't really needed and I usually left them off.

What subs, you ask? Why Fosgate Audionics FS400 THX subs, that's what. What was in those subs, you ask? JBL LE14H-1 drivers, that's what.

The S5800 I heard easily outperformed the SVA2100. That's no surprise. But the added point is that four 10" woofers needed bigger 14" subs to really deliver the bottom end. My impression is that the S5800, good as it is, needs subs, too.

The 1400 Array already has a big driver in it, it has a better horn design and orientation, and it has better height for MR and HF sound. Of course, it's not a K2, so it lacks that prestige, but if I could get new K2 S5800s or new 1400 Arrays for the same price, I'd get the Arrays without hesitation. Now if the choice were NIB K2 S5800s or used 1400s that couldn't be picked up (due to distance) and they needed to be taken apart and shipped in a non-original box, I'd take a long pause.

But if all you really want to know is which is a better speaker with no regard to price or condition, then that's easy: 1400 Array. I believe anyone who's heard both would agree.

And, of course, to bring this back on topic, nothing in that sale so far will tempt me to give up a pair of K2 S9900s. If next week they add Everest II DD66000 at $15,000 each, nope. $12,500 each, probably not. $10,000 each, ah, hmm, well, anybody want to buy some K2 S9900s? ;)

[JBLAddict]

But if all you really want to know is which is a better speaker with no regard to price or condition, then that's easy: 1400 Array. I believe anyone who's heard both would agree.

And, of course, to bring this back on topic, nothing in that sale so far will tempt me to give up a pair of K2 S9900s.

Point 1: Yes, that's the question, thanks......
Point 2: The "downside" I suppose of reaching the near top of the food chain :( whereas the rest of us slobs are still haunted by the likes of Ti10K, PT800, S4800, Array (all), XPL200 :p

[Titanium Dome]

Okay, so a nice swordfish dinner at 22nd Street Landing, (deleted), a slow drive home by the ocean, 83 degrees, Dave Koz Saxaphonic on the K2s with the new, final(?) amps with a couple of days of acclimation, (deleted) "simple," "integrity," "success," and "justice" (deleted)... These things are worth way more than they cost.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWrCf7rAytc

EDIT: I could get killed for posting that, so I scaled it back.

[jblsound]

OK, I'll bite, what is the new amp?

From my own experiences, currently running all Parasound P7 pre-amp/HCA2205A combo, if I were ever to get the Salon2, Array1400, 9900, Everest II, my first amp upgrade, and maybe the only upgrade, would be a pair of Parasound JC-1 mono blocks ($4500/ea) with a JC-2 pre-amp ($3500). For what those cost, I don't think better amps can be had.

[caladois]

Hi,
Did TitaniumDome had sub to his K2 S9900 ? Can you tell more about the last set up ?
frequency, cross over, cabs... I am curious.

[Titanium Dome]

OK, I'll bite, what is the new amp?


Sorry for the delay, but the answer is...




ATI.

I should start a thread in the consumer amps forum, and I promise I will. For right now, I'll say that this is one of the amp manufacturers I asked the both the designer and the dealer about and they were kind in their comments.

EDIT: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?31053-ATI-Amplifiers

[Titanium Dome]

Hi,
Did TitaniumDome had sub to his K2 S9900 ? Can you tell more about the last set up ?
frequency, cross over, cabs... I am curious.

Bon soir, caladois. J'espère que votre vie est joyeuse, et la France prospère. :)

I added two JBL S2S Synthesis® subs, and as 4313B correctly pointed out, they are not of the same caliber as the K2 S9900. Fortunately, I am not asking them to be K2s, but only LF producers below 40 Hz, so I am comfortable that these passive, 15" transducer, front ported subs can do what I ask of them. I corresponded with the designer who felt this was an acceptable approach to complementing the K2s, and certainly the price I paid was far, far below a 1500 Array or something of comparable quality.

When I purchased the ATI amps for the K2s, I got three channel amps for each side, so a K2 gets two channels and an S2S gets the third channel. Thus, one channel goes to the K2 HF and UHF drivers, one channel goes to the K2 woofer, and one channel goes to the S2S, which receives frequencies crossed over below 40 Hz.

The pre/pro has balanced outputs, including two sub outputs, so it does the crossover very neatly at 40 Hz.

All in all, it's very, very nice. Chaque nuit ma chérie veut écouter la musique. Est-ce que ce n'est pas incroyable ? :)

http://jblsynthesis.com/ProductDetails.aspx?prdid=39

[caladois]

"Nuits blanches pour Titanium Dome":D

Good to hear you. I was just wondering if only one sub wouldn't be enough in domestic room ?

[Titanium Dome]

"Nuits blanches pour Titanium Dome":D

Good to hear you. I was just wondering if only one sub wouldn't be enough in domestic room ?

Nuits blanches mais complètement d'intimité, oui?

The room is really four rooms in one, so 32' x 36' of open space on three levels with 4' of elevation from the lowest to the highest floor and ceilings at 8', 10, 14', and 26'. Between the rooms (living room, dining room, family room, and kitchen) there are no walls, only steps up or down.

It's a lot of space.

[Mr. Widget]

OK, I'll bite, what is the new amp?

From my own experiences, currently running all Parasound P7 pre-amp/HCA2205A combo, if I were ever to get the Salon2, Array1400, 9900, Everest II, my first amp upgrade, and maybe the only upgrade, would be a pair of Parasound JC-1 mono blocks ($4500/ea) with a JC-2 pre-amp ($3500). For what those cost, I don't think better amps can be had.We recently bought a pair of JC-1s for our demo Everests... we did this after hearing the marked improvement a pair of JC-1s made on the sound of the Salon2s we sold to a customer... he had been using a pair of uber expensive "audiophile" amps... we sold him the Salons and he wasn't happy with the sound in his room, we brought over a Halo A21 and he was blown away... he ordered a pair of JC-1s and once we installed them we were blown away. We hadn't sold any previously even though the reviews were so good... who believes those reviews anyway? ;)

Talking with Richard Schram, Parasound's founder, he told us that he heard the JC-1s on Everests and they take the massive back emf from those 1501ALs with a grace that few amplifier designs can... we are believers. Interestingly the triple small woofers in the big Revels caused a similar issue for several of the amps we used with them as well.


Widget

[Titanium Dome]

he had been using a pair of uber expensive "audiophile" amps... we sold him the Salons and he wasn't happy with the sound in his room, we brought over a Halo A21 and he was blown away... he ordered a pair of JC-1s and once we installed them we were blown away. We hadn't sold any previously even though the reviews were so good... who believes those reviews anyway? ;)



Widget

It's on thread, sort of, in that I borrowed a number of respected names to try here, and I ended up with ATI, a brand even less seriously considered than Parasound for use by high end consumers.

[timc]

Isnt ATI the people who make the synthesis amps?

[Titanium Dome]

Isnt ATI the people who make the synthesis amps?

Yes, Synthesis®, Performance Series AVA7, Crestron, Theta, B&K, BGW, Audioaccess, and one or two I probably shouldn't mention.

[jblsound]

Yes, Synthesis®, Performance Series AVA7, Crestron, Theta, B&K, BGW, Audioaccess, and one or two I probably shouldn't mention.

Why stop there? Mention them all!

[caladois]

Don't be shy ! :)

[Titanium Dome]

You're square in the mark, Rich. I've been thinking about this a lot recently, especially with the K2s in the house. Every JBL I listen to with regularity has one thing in common: Greg Timbers had a hand in it.

True, I still have the L7s, the L100s, 4430s, and the SVAs among others. Yet they've been relegated to "occasional" status. Heck, I'm even trying to sell some of them. :eek:

Right now I'm grooving on the L250s in my office. Tonight, I'll be having a little XPL200 delight, followed by some K2 heaven. This weekend the One Array system and the Performance Series will be on tap, and the S/2600s will be on in the bedroom as they are every day.

There's a sense of needing to do something to recognize the genius behind so many systems that give me and others so much pleasure. This is especially true considering the near extinction of JBL at the Harman Campus in Northridge. He (and others no doubt) should be recognized while still a part of Harman, not after the whole thing is flushed. I was actually thinking about a number of ways this could be done, including maybe hosting an event where the man and many of his systems could be in the same place. Hmm. We'll see...


And, truthfully, IMO, you have done the 1st and MOST important thing, and you will continue to do the second on a daily basis, maybe even many times a day!

1. YOU purchased a pair of K2 S9900!

2. YOU, and your family will use and listen to your K2 EVERY DAY!

Greg Timbers has made his indelible mark on you, as he has so many, and you have his creations, as working and functioning art exhibits to be a part of your life indefinitely. To me, IF I were a speaker designer/engineer, this would mean more to me than all the technical awards, and measurements. You hear and feel what it is he hears and feels. This epitomizes the definition of the word CLASSIC, because the K2 will be timeless, and a part of your life for a long, long time to come, and many others, too!

A person such as Greg Timbers has to smile when he reads forums like these, his recent flagship creations are considered to be without peer, and that is a huge testament to him within itself. But, when you sit back, and read about people still going bonkers over speaker systems like the L100, something like half a century later, as well as all his other designs before, during and after, the man is, without a doubt, A LIVING MONUMENT!

JBL, was more than fortunate as a company, as this one particular company has had so many of the very best audio artisans throughout time, from their beginning to the present. And this is what I call HISTORY!


:cheers:




Now that would be something! :yes:
It sure beats some of the other stuff he's read!


My suggestion would be to host this in cooperation with Erling Neby. Then all the great JBL's would be in one place. AND i would be able to attend.

This thread has rested for a year. It hardly seems like the K2s have been part of our lives for that long. This evening I grilled some chicken breast outside with Jack Daniels BBQ sauce; sautéed some green beans, peppers, garlic, and onions in olive oil; baked some split white potatoes open faced over the grill; and assembled a simple salad of thinly sliced tomato, cottage cheese, and sliced strawberries. As soon as she got home, Huiky went straight to the K2 set up, popped in Phil Keaggy's "Splash" CD from Music To Paint By, and remarked how much she enjoys coming home to a wonderful home smelling of good food and sounding of beautiful music.

It got me thinking about how long we've loved these things together and how the K2s took her in a direction that I hadn't anticipated. It got me thinking about the magical nature of a well-crafted product created by men of genius, and how inspired work can enrich our lives. Then I thought about one of Scotty J's last posts and the posts that surrounded it, including about Greg Timbers and all he's done (and all he's endured) at JBL and now Harman. I've not followed through on that simple idea of finding a way for me and anyone else who can join in to show him some respect and gratitude, and probably not him alone.

I think I need to follow that idea to fulfillment. Who's coming to or near LA this summer? I think I can get a few local folks to show up, but if some of the other members were coming this way, I would try to schedule this so they could make it, too.

Mods/admins: Can we create some kind of special award for just such an occasion? (Sure, I'll pay for it. Just say "Yes." ;) )

If I get a sense of who might be interested, I can decide if I can host it here or should rent a nearby eatery then come here afterword... it all depends on others' interests and availability. Otherwise, I guess Huiky and I can do it ourselves, but I think the odds are better if it's more of a Lansing Heritage event.

Anyone?

[DavidF]

This thread has rested for a year. It hardly seems like the K2s have been part of our lives for that long. This evening I grilled some chicken breast outside with Jack Daniels BBQ sauce; sautéed some green beans, peppers, garlic, and onions in olive oil; baked some split white potatoes open faced over the grill; and assembled a simple salad of thinly sliced tomato, cottage cheese, and sliced strawberries. As soon as she got home, Huiky went straight to the K2 set up, popped in Phil Keaggy's "Splash" CD from Music To Paint By, and remarked how much she enjoys coming home to a wonderful home smelling of good food and sounding of beautiful music.

It got me thinking about how long we've loved these things together and how the K2s took her in a direction that I hadn't anticipated. It got me thinking about the magical nature of a well-crafted product created by men of genius, and how inspired work can enrich our lives. Then I thought about one of Scotty J's last posts and the posts that surrounded it, including about Greg Timbers and all he's done (and all he's endured) at JBL and now Harman. I've not followed through on that simple idea of finding a way for me and anyone else who can join in to show him some respect and gratitude, and probably not him alone.

I think I need to follow that idea to fulfillment. Who's coming to or near LA this summer? I think I can get a few local folks to show up, but if some of the other members were coming this way, I would try to schedule this so they could make it, too.

Mods/admins: Can we create some kind of special award for just such an occasion? (Sure, I'll pay for it. Just say "Yes." ;) )

If I get a sense of who might be interested, I can decide if I can host it here or should rent a nearby eatery then come here afterword... it all depends on others' interests and availability. Otherwise, I guess Huiky and I can do it ourselves, but I think the odds are better if it's more of a Lansing Heritage event.

Anyone?

Very nice sentiment, TD.

[Robh3606]

If I was on your coast I would like to come by. I am sure it would be lot's of fun.

Rob:)

[JBLAddict]

in

[BMWCCA]

Great idea and I feel the same way. I would love the chance to express my gratitude in person but will likely have to enjoy the experience vicariously. Autographed foilcals anyone? :D

[1audiohack]

It got me thinking about the magical nature of a well-crafted product created by men of genius, and how inspired work can enrich our lives. Then I thought about one of Scotty J's last posts and the posts that surrounded it, including about Greg Timbers and all he's done (and all he's endured) at JBL and now Harman. I've not followed through on that simple idea of finding a way for me and anyone else who can join in to show him some respect and gratitude, and probably not him alone.

I think I need to follow that idea to fulfillment. Who's coming to or near LA this summer? I think I can get a few local folks to show up, but if some of the other members were coming this way, I would try to schedule this so they could make it, too.

Mods/admins: Can we create some kind of special award for just such an occasion? (Sure, I'll pay for it. Just say "Yes." ;)
Anyone?

Diplomatic disclaimer, I don't think you would do something lame and or for self gratification, so allow me to speak plainly and understand absolutely no offense is meant:

I think it's a great idea with one big question, how do you make it an event that the guest of honor will be glad he attended? How many "Award Ceremonies" have you been to where the guest of honor really shows up out of some sense of obligation and it's the people that want and get to rub shoulders with him are the only ones who enjoy their time?

I would love to meet the man and personally thank him for the countless hours of enjoyment I have had as a result of his passion and engineering prowess, but not at the expense of his happiness. I don't know a thing about him personally and don't know what makes him tick. I think if we are to award him with something tangable, and I think we should if this idea is to be carried out, I would like to make the award something that he would really appreciate and this would require some knowledge of the man.

I would be delighted to help out financially and can get to LA just about anytime. Count me in. :)

[Titanium Dome]

To find out more about the Greg Timbers event, go here:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?33122-Special-Event-in-SoCal&p=335127#post335127

[hlaari]

some nice review on K2-S9900 from What hifi
https://www.whathifi.com/jbl/k2-s9900/review

[Titanium Dome]

After spending several years with the K2s, looking past Everest II DD66000, Array 1400, and Revel Ultima2 Salon, I have no regrets. None. Nada. Zilch (with apologies to Zilch). I have a BIG room, and the K2s are as close to perfect as I've heard.

:bouncy:

[hlaari]

I am very excited about the S9900
I am working on my S9900 project I have got most of the parts and I hope at I will get the parts I need in this winter

I think in some way at S9900 are better build than the Everest, the enclosure is higher and the drivers are in better listening position

1500Al-1 are great sounding woofer

[Titanium Dome]

I look back and see it's over nine years since this thread started with caladois's inquiry, and I'm still exceedingly pleased with the K2 S9900.

During spring cleaning this year, I decided it was time to change up the placement of the K2s and see if I could milk them for even more deliciousness. We all know how that goes: before you move one thing you have to move another, and that requires taking something apart, then you have to place all the parts out of the way but remember to keep them in order, but that's followed by the discovery that spiders like the bottom of the S2S subs you're using and you have to do some heavy duty removal, and...

So something that seemed like an easy 60 minute activity turned into eight or nine hours of futzing around. Out came the measuring tape, and strings, and different length cables, and mic, and it's off to the races figuring out toe-in, distance from the wall, center of the listening area, etc.

Finally, they ended up closer together, farther from the back wall and the corners, slightly more toed in, and with less distance between the speakers and the seat(s). Not accounting for expectation bias, I tried nine different locations before deciding on the one that pleased me and the mic the most. Each location had a minimum of five attributes--distance to wall, distance to corner, distance between speakers, angle of toe-in, and distance to seat--with almost unlimited variables, that showed how the sound can change with even small location modifications. Even though the large room volume and room contents never changed, each relocation of the speakers was a new experience, sometimes satisfying and sometimes not.

For technical backup to my personal preferences, I used the Dayton Audio iMM-6 calibrated mic with AudioTools on a 10.5" iPad Pro. The mic was at ear level on the center seat of three listening chairs that face the K2s.

All in all, this longer than expected process yielded happy results, and the K2s are good for another several years of listening bliss. :)

Now, why didn't I remember to replace the 9-Volt batteries in the K2s before I finished? :banghead:

[JBLAddict]

Hey TD! good to see you online. Hope all's well up in the Central.

Great to hear you're still getting more out of the vaunted K2. I recall when you first purchased the challenges you had getting them just right, nice to see that's all come full circle to using descriptors like "deliciousness" :D

Curious when the aforementioned mic and app on the ipad, does the app actually guide the adjustment or just provide response. To this day I'm still running my PS 5.2 setup based upon the ole radio shack meter SPL measures of each speaker from only the main seating position.

I'd still like to move toward better calibration but really don't know how to get started, appreciate any advice.

T

[Titanium Dome]

Hey TD! good to see you online. Hope all's well up in the Central.

Great to hear you're still getting more out of the vaunted K2. I recall when you first purchased the challenges you had getting them just right, nice to see that's all come full circle to using descriptors like "deliciousness" :D

Curious when the aforementioned mic and app on the ipad, does the app actually guide the adjustment or just provide response. To this day I'm still running my PS 5.2 setup based upon the ole radio shack meter SPL measures of each speaker from only the main seating position.

I'd still like to move toward better calibration but really don't know how to get started, appreciate any advice.

T

It's good to hear you're till enjoying the Performance Series. I still have enough for a 5.1 set up if I ever get permission to set them up somewhere. They're a beautiful thing.

Here's a link to the AudioTools Web site. It will explain things faster than I can.

http://studiosixdigital.com/audiotools

Things can get complicated quickly, but having simple objectives keeps things manageable. Use of the optional (read "in-app purchase") Transfer Function really opens up the possibilities. It just depends on how far you want to go.

[Titanium Dome]

Tony,

I believe grumpy has the same Dayton mic and also AudioTools. He might be able to chime in from a knowledgeable point of view.

Most of the in-app purchase tools also have a 7 day free trial, so if you know what you want to do and only plan to do it once, that's a way to go. There are a ton of how-to videos.

I find that once I try some add-on I generally buy it and keep it for future use and for other set ups. Also, the license is good on all your Mac OS and iOS devices with the same Apple ID.

[grumpy]

Not a substitute for a Clio, TDS, REW, Fuzzmeasure, etc... system,
But you can certainly try out an app such as AudioTools with the iPhone or iPad built-in mic
before dropping more on the Dayton mic (which has at least some calibration info).
(think I grabbed one when on sale)

Useful for large frequency peaks, spectral balance, or crossover nulling.

I wouldn’t depend on it for speaker design.

[Mr. Widget]

Not a substitute for a Clio, TDS, REW, Fuzzmeasure, etc... system,
But you can certainly try out an app such as AudioTools with the iPhone or iPad built-in mic
before dropping more on the Dayton mic (which has at least some calibration info).
(think I grabbed one when on sale)

Useful for large frequency peaks, spectral balance, or crossover nulling.

I wouldn’t depend on it for speaker design.I think AudioTools offer a great set of additional tools. I bought the iTest mic from AudioControl which loads a calibration file whenever you plug it in to an iOS device running AudioTools and have found the results very useful.

In addition to the basic suite of tools I've added LARSA which I've found really useful in room tuning.


Widget

[grumpy]

https://youtu.be/dynmlAYhmN8

looks like $30 well spent (LARSA add-on) :)

[Titanium Dome]

When going through this process, my self-imposed limits were not to change any characteristic of the speakers per se, but to maximize their effectiveness in the room relative to the seating position(s).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV5r8cs0

What I was looking for AudioTools and the Dayton mic to tell me was how the speakers' sound changed at the seating position(s) as the K2s were moved (as a pair) to different locations. There were no electronic changes made whatsoever.

This approach could be useful with a Performance Series system, as there's minimal flexibility to do a lot of the things that actively bi-amping K2s permits, for better or worse. Unless there's an equalizer in the chain somewhere, the PS is limited to whatever controls are in the AVR or pre that's being used--maybe tone controls--since even the crossover point from the PS1400 to the PT800 is controlled by the PS1400, not the AVR.

Lazily, I didn't take any screen shots; however, it was interesting to see the very subtle changes in mid and high frequency at the listening position as the toe-in and distance between speakers was fine tuned until there was an "A-ha!" With the low frequency stuff, say below 130Hz, there was a much wider range of change, of course relative to distance to the rear wall. Anything significant below 40Hz was duly chained to the front-ported subs, which by partner fiat are required to be where they are. (I moved them a few inches, though.)

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi Dome,

I have been re reading this thread.
Have you done much since post 201 and 228?

You comments around careful and often exacting adjustment of the S9900 location make perfect sense and that should be a sticky for anyone setting up a loudspeaker system.

You mentioned an 8 attribute adjustment.
But the constant not discussed is the ceiling to listening distance or floor to ear height unless l missed something ?

Have you tried different chair heights?
Elsewhere we have talked of moving the ear height down for the systems using the 2308 lenses but l wonder if you have considered a lower chair height? That impacts on the response in the crossover region of any loudspeaker.

The other impact is unless the ceiling is high it’s often a large flat surface less than 2 metres from your ears. A proportion of indirect sound will be reflected from the ceiling.

I am enjoying the scale of significantly higher ceilings at the rear of our new home. The consensus is that brings something new to listening experience in terms of the acoustics.

[hjames]

https://youtu.be/dynmlAYhmN8

looks like $30 well spent (LARSA add-on) :)

Direct Link -Loudspeaker and Room System Analyzer app (LARSA) is an iOS app that can be used to accurately measure the frequency response and Energy Time Curve for a sound system.
Use LARSA for adjusting EQ for a recording studio control room, home stereo, home theater, or car.

http://studiosixdigital.com/audiotools-modules-2/acoustic-analysis-modules/larsaloudspeaker-and-room/

[Titanium Dome]

Hi Dome,

I have been re reading this thread.
Have you done much since post 201 and 228?

You comments around careful and often exacting adjustment of the S9900 location make perfect sense and that should be a sticky for anyone setting up a loudspeaker system.

You mentioned an 8 attribute adjustment.
But the constant not discussed is the ceiling to listening distance or floor to ear height unless l missed something ?

Have you tried different chair heights?
Elsewhere we have talked of moving the ear height down for the systems using the 2308 lenses but l wonder if you have considered a lower chair height? That impacts on the response in the crossover region of any loudspeaker.

The other impact is unless the ceiling is high it’s often a large flat surface less than 2 metres from your ears. A proportion of indirect sound will be reflected from the ceiling.

I am enjoying the scale of significantly higher ceilings at the rear of our new home. The consensus is that brings something new to listening experience in terms of the acoustics.


Ian, always good to hear from you!

The biggest change of course is the venue. The second biggest change is moving from a "basic" bi-amp to active bi-amping through BSS Omnidrive units (tuning courtesy of "Have Laptop, Will Travel" grumpy, the ears of George and Shane, and GT messaging).

The K2s are now in a 12,600 cubic ft. open environment (1,229 sq. ft. floor space) with ceilings that are about 50% at 9 ft. height, and the other 50% rising from 9 to14 ft. The K2s reside near the exterior wall where the ceiling begins its rise to 14 ft. before dropping back sharply to 9 ft. near the middle of the space (about 16 ft in) where the great room, kitchen, and dining room all intersect. The vertical, suspended 5 ft. drop wall at this point has HF absorbers to reduce echo. The rest of the space is largely open except for typical house stuff that Floyd Toole would find normal and fine.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I will need to make a long flight in 2020 then won’t l.