Storm Clouds for Harman and JBL

[Titanium Dome]

Storm clouds brewing on the horizon can bring a break to oppressive weather and bring much needed relief and rain, or they are a harbinger of massive destruction and loss, with little or nothing left standing when they have blown through.

How this will turn out I cannot say, but these are storm clouds for sure.

http://www.hometheaterreview.com/av-news/2009-home-theater-news/industry-trade-news-1/mark_levinson_lexicon_and_revel_to_merge_to_with_h arman_professional_-_over_130_jobs_lost002312.php

The possible good news is that they will merge into JBL Professional and move to Northridge where they belong. Also, Kevin Voecks is staying. But blood is running in the streams wrought by the storm, and it remains to be seen if this is a shower of purification or a deadly deluge.

[Titanium Dome]

Here's the official announcement.

http://harmaninternational.com/Press/Default.aspx?artID=520

[4313B]

Right back where they belong.

We got the word of this about six months ago. :(

At least Engineering is staying in the U.S. for awhile. :)

What is really remarkable is how much Harman mirrors my own company. Harman is an order of magnitude smaller but both our companies have been on the same strategy track for quite awhile now. :( During my phone call with JBL on Friday - "This &&&& has got to stop!"

But it won't...

Anyone watching what is going on with the credit cards and student loans?

[Mr. Widget]

Storm clouds brewing ...Feeling a bit poetic? :)

It sounds like good news to me. As a West Coaster, I am sorry that they have moved their largest warehouse from near by Arizona to Georgia, but so be it. As far as JBL and Revel are concerned, the R+D and any remaining domestic manufacturing were always in Northridge... well since the Casitas days, and it seems like a practical solution. I am not sure what this will mean for Mark Levinson and Lexicon. I guess we'll see.


Widget

[JBL 4645]

Yeah I’m a little worried about the company. Crown is on the list I wonder what the fluxuations for HAR on the stock market will be like over the next few months. Good or bad?

[4313B]

It sounds like good news to me.It is from the stand point that it is my personal opinion Consumer should never have moved in the first place. We lamented it when it first happened. It isn't from the standpoint that it is the end of JBL as we all know it.

[Titanium Dome]

I'll be glad to see a consolidation at Northridge. If the right people from JBL get put in the right positions, it could do a lot to stabilize the brand and make it stronger. If the cultures of Levinson, Lexicon, and Revel get too much play, then all bets are off.

[JBL 4645]

It isn't from the standpoint that it is the end of JBL as we all know it.

If this happens we’ll have world- mass suicides overnight.:D

Read no evil hear no evil see no evil and speak no evil.

http://www.stevemiller4lasvegas.com/SeeNoEvilMonkeys.JPG

[Mr. Widget]

If the cultures of Levinson, Lexicon, and Revel get too much play, then all bets are off.I'm not sure what that means, but it seems to me the bean counters at Harman know where the real money is... car audio and ipod products. :(


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[Titanium Dome]

I'm not sure what that means, but it seems to me the bean counters at Harman know where the real money is... car audio and ipod products. :(


Widget

If you've been through a merger or two like I have, one of the biggest problems is clash of cultures between those being merged.

One day you're working in a relatively small shop, insulated from too much pressure to perform because you're protected by a multimillion dollar company that told you to create the best. You have a great director who's all about quality and excellence. R&D? How much more money do you need? How much more time to get it just right? Do you need to hire someone who's an expert on something that's eluding you? You build a cozy, collaborative, professional environment producing top quality gear on a reasonable schedule.

The next day you're in a cubicle in Northridge working for a guy who yells across the room, surrounded by guys who dress like bums, who think a PolyPlas driver will work just fine, and think a W12GTI would make a badass THX home theater sub in the right box, and there you are: culture shock.

[Mr. Widget]

I don't think the folks who know what a voice coil is for or that electrons don't flow best down hill are changing... relocating perhaps, but they will still be doing essentially what they were doing last year. I would guess it is the marketing geniuses and the bean counters that will be most shaken up. The company is obviously top heavy in these areas anyway.

Oh, they may find new and more creative ways to sink the Harman ship, but given half a chance I see this as a certain win for JBL/Revel, and hopefully for ML and Lexicon too.


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[Fred Sanford]

Anyway, I live minutes from Woodbury NY. Too bad for those folks. Woodbury looks like an adm. place so I don;t suppose they would be carrying any JBL merchandise that would need to be liquidated before the move to Commiefornia.

I got to say the recent consumer stuff is not very good anyway. I heard a set of new speakers in a bar a few nights ago and it was terrible.

Your last paragraph is an absurd generalization- it doesn't take into account the rest of the bar's system, the bar's acoustics, or the fact that hearing a single example of their product in no way gives you a valid idea of JBL's entire line of "recent consumer stuff". In fact, consumer stuff in a bar system starts out by being a misapplication in the first place.

A friend of mine worked in Woodbury years ago, and described a "great purge" at that time- once he started describing dumpsters full of recone kits and diaphragms I made him stop.

He did save a Paragon manual for me, though.

je

[Titanium Dome]

Yea! Any suggestion what we (the little people) can do about it?:blink:

Most people here are already doing what they can by not buying any new JBL or Harman products. That'll teach 'em!

[Rolf]

Most people here are already doing what they can by not buying any new JBL or Harman products. That'll teach 'em!

:rotfl::thmbsup::dont-know

That's a funny one. But if we don't buy products from them, how will they survive? I would like to get a pair of the new Everest's, but cant afford them at the moment. I just bought one more amp (about US$ 10.000) and yesterday a new full HD TV (Sony) and a HD satellite receiver (Topfield) to about US$ 5000, so this have to do for this time. The DD66000 is about US$ 60.000. Don't have it now.

[Mr. Widget]

That's funny, last time my thread turned to politics on the forum, I got warned " please keep politics off the forum" and the posts deleted................................I was wondering if I should strip this thread of the Non-Harman posts... either dump them into the Non-Audio area or just dump them....


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[speakerdave]

That's funny, last time my thread turned to politics on the forum, I got warned and the posts deleted................................
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=238465&postcount=24

Yeah. I thought this was against the rules. But since . . . .

I'm amused by this: The "untax and gift" right wingers and big money Democrats who shot the holes in this boat are freaked by the emerging reality that the main hope for keeping it afloat is turning into an opening for the "untax and spend" Democrats to do their thing AND an earmarkers festival.

The underlying contest in this country from the beginning has been between the AdamSmythophiles and "the pursuit of happiness," a phrase which in the 18th century meant something more like "the greater good" than what it means today. Currently the balance of these two contesting realities is going more toward the center, where the US has always prospered.

And so it goes.

I like some of these posters better when they are talking about JBL.

[Mr. Widget]

I like some of these posters better when they are talking about JBL.I suppose that's why in Don's infinite wisdom we are not supposed to venture over to the dark side.

I have purged this thread of the political posts... now it is just a dreary condemnation of Harman's internal politics.


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[Titanium Dome]

:rotfl::thmbsup::dont-know

That's a funny one. But if we don't buy products from them, how will they survive? I would like to get a pair of the new Everest's, but cant afford them at the moment. I just bought one more amp (about US$ 10.000) and yesterday a new full HD TV (Sony) and a HD satellite receiver (Topfield) to about US$ 5000, so this have to do for this time. The DD66000 is about US$ 60.000. Don't have it now.

Rolf, here they are at a $21,000 US discount for "refurbished." (Click the drop down "select condition" menu.) For the life of me, I can't imagine there are any refurbished Everest IIs out there. If there are, I imagine Harman/JBL can still make a profit at $39,000 pair.

http://www.independentaudiovideo.com/store/item_view.asp?estore_itemid=1000021


Look, I'm still on thread!

[Mr. Widget]

Rolf, here they are at a $21,000 US discount for "refurbished." (Click the drop down "select condition" menu.) For the life of me, I can't imagine there are any refurbished Everest IIs out there. If there are, I imagine Harman/JBL can still make a profit at $39,000 pair.

http://www.independentaudiovideo.com/store/item_view.asp?estore_itemid=1000021That is so wrong. I know a SF Bay Area dealer who is seriously considering getting a demo pair of Everests... with sideways sales like this, I would recommend against it. Harman needs to stop just moving product and rethink their business practices.

The idea behind high end sales is that a knowledgeable sales team will help you put together a SYSTEM that works well in your space... these internet sales do not offer a high end product, just merchandise.


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[Ducatista47]

I suppose that's why in Don's infinite wisdom we are not supposed to venture over to the dark side.

I have purged this thread of the political posts... now it is just a dreary condemnation of Harman's internal politics.


Widget

I guess I should have named names. Harman bought into the growth model of business which is a road to nowhere in the long run. Harman thus found itself in a vulnerable position, unable to make money except through financial manipulations. When this too came to its inevitable end, the house of cards collapsed.

If Harman or its parts like JBL tries to repeat the error, woe be their fate. Same old same old and it seems the lesson has not been learned.

I hardly think shining the light of day on what is wrong and begging a company I like to not repeat history qualifies as a dreary condemnation. Rolf wisely asked why it always has to be that way and the answer is, "It doesn't have to be."

Clark

[Mr. Widget]

"It doesn't have to be."I agree.

To misquote one of my favorite books, "Off with their heads!"

The problem is surely at the top.


Widget

[JBL 4645]

I was only talking to supplier of Harman, was it yesterday or the day before on the telephone. I should have asked them. Is this going to affect the UK market?


I agree.

To misquote one of my favorite books, "Off with their heads!"

The problem is surely at the top.


Widget

If you mean the “guillotine” that is such a morbid and depressing device.:( Makes my skin crawl.

[Titanium Dome]

I agree it hurts rather than helps both Harman and its customers. Still, I'm skeptical that refurbished Everest IIs exist, or even that they have the gently used or certified mint pairs. If so, no one would be on the waiting list for Everest IIs.

OTOH, demo pairs are few and far between, so it's predictable that there will be alternative methods for procuring even top dollar items. Everyone goes to the Internet first to find a product, and if the local marketplace isn't represented, it gets ignored in favor of quick, easy purchasing on line.

This may be a better revenue stream for Harman than retail.

On the JBL Synthesis® Web site, I have to contact somebody in Thousand Oaks to find out if there is a dealer near me. That's stupid. Why not simply list the dealers so I can call direct? Instead, I have to call or email AV Partners, then count on them to get back to me (no one ever answers the phone or email) to tell me whom to call or email to set up an appointment to audition a system, be it Synthesis®, Array, K2, Everest, Performance, and apparently the upcoming LS.

Then of course, when I do go, they don't have the system I'm looking for, though they implied they did when I asked, and they try to upsell me or tell me that what I want isn't going to make me happy. Or they say they don't really like to sell systems under $40,000, or that a system is discontinued, or out of stock, or is really a different brand, or whatever, even though I know it to be false. Shit, I seem to know more about JBL's product line than they do.

Apparently some Synthesis® dealers don't want to sell Synthesis® gear. They use the brand recognition to pull you in, then try to turn the sale to a more profitable brand. "You know JBL used to be a great brand, but now we recommend..." :bs:

That's why I got my first Performance Series system from a dealer in NY state. I actually found a dealer who wanted to sell a JBL system that a customer wanted that he happened to have in stock. Imagine that.

I suppose a Synthesis® dealer who wants to succeed needs to do two or three things:
1. Plan on doing his/her own promotion and marketing.
2. Develop a strong presence in the local community, both word of mouth and special events to bring customers into the physical world (the store) instead of the virtual world (the Internet).
3. Develop and provide a service model that can't be beat, initially free for its high end customers, reasonably priced for other customers, and at a high cost for the Internet purchasers who eventually come needing help. And advertise it.

[Rolf]

That's funny, last time my thread turned to politics on the forum, I got warned " please keep politics off the forum" and the posts deleted................................

I am VERY SORRY if my latest post was Political. I did not meant it that way.

I will never speak about it again, but the reason was questions about he Norwegian oil.

So sorry. As you all should know I am against political and religion stuff. This is something we can discuss in PM's.

[Mr. Widget]

Apparently some Synthesis® dealers don't want to sell Synthesis® gear. They use the brand recognition to pull you in, then try to turn the sale to a more profitable brand. "You know JBL used to be a great brand, but now we recommend..." :bs:In the good old days there were JBL dealers who would try to pull that sort of thing... JBL would send out people like Robert G. who would alert the home office and the JBL dealer would no longer be an authorized JBL dealer... at which point all of their demos and stock on hand would be dumped at a deep discount. There was no internet back then so those "good deals" were limited to locals.



I suppose a Synthesis® dealer who wants to succeed needs to do two or three things:
1. Plan on doing his/her own promotion and marketing.
2. Develop a strong presence in the local community, both word of mouth and special events to bring customers into the physical world (the store) instead of the virtual world (the Internet).
3. Develop and provide a service model that can't be beat, initially free for its high end customers, reasonably priced for other customers, and at a high cost for the Internet purchasers who eventually come needing help. And advertise it.Yep, that's the way it should be done... and this sort of model needs to be backed up by JBL with excellent service to their dealers when they need a replacement part. JBL has been spotty at best. All of those pesky audiophile brands that Sumiko represent are backed by stellar service... they maintain a complete parts inventory for everything they sell going back a decade or more after they are discontinued.


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[Titanium Dome]

Let's hope the consolidation to Northridge improves a lot of that. It should improve it and create more efficiency of operation, but there's no guarantee.

[Rolf]

Is my apologise accepted moderators?

[Mr. Widget]

Is my apologise accepted moderators?Your apology was not needed. I don't think you offended anyone and many of us, myself included got caught up in that friendly political chat.


Widget

[Rolf]

Your apology was not needed. I don't think you offended anyone and many of us, myself included got caught up in that friendly political chat.


Widget

Thanks

[4345]

It seems as if things are not going so well at Harman. I hope things improve. The better they do, the better for us vintage JBL lovers.

From AP:

For the quarter ended Dec. 31, the company reported a loss of $317 million, or $5.41 per share -- versus a profit of $43 million, or 68 cents per share, a year earlier.