Possible Solutions

[toddalin]

I've come up with a couple possible solutions for the depression in the midrange that has been causing a depression in the listener.

The obvious answer is to change the cabinets. I happened apon some 43** style cabinets listed as "JBL "bass cabinets". These have S7 loads and the woofers appear to have been reconed recently with 2235-style cones.

But there was a caveat (as always). If I wanted these I also had to take the pair of 4430s. And if I wanted those, I also had to take the pair of 4425s. But if I wanted those, I also had to take a Tascam M-35 mixer.

Both the 4430s and 4425s need new foams and none of the cabinets are perfect.

If it is of interest to anyone, the mixer will go up for sale/or trade (including a trade of labor to refurbish cabinets)? I've not decided what to do with the other stuff. But some may end up here.

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/Concrete_Rocks/New_JBLs001.jpg

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/Concrete_Rocks/New_JBLs003.jpg

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/Concrete_Rocks/New_JBLs002.jpg

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/Concrete_Rocks/New_JBLs004.jpg

They're out there if you keep your eyes peeled. :eek:

[Mr. Widget]

I've come up with a couple possible solutions for the depression in the midrange that has been causing a depression in the listener.So, take one of your woofers... pop it into each of these cabs and repeat the measurements you have already made and compare them... don't worry about cabinet tuning, it will have no effect in region of concern.


These have S7 loads and the woofers appear to have been reconed recently with 2235-style cones.Why do you think they were reconed with 2235H cones instead of 2215 kits?


Widget

[toddalin]

So, take one of your woofers... pop it into each of these cabs and repeat the measurements you have already made and compare them...

Why do you think they were reconed with 2235H cones instead of 2215 kits?


Widget

That is the intent.

I don't. I haven't opened them. But from the exterior, the cones look exactly like the 2235-recones I just had done. That's all.

[Mr. Widget]

That is the intent.So do it already and get back to us... it takes longer to take and post photos than it would to do a quick measurement and possibly discover what has been bothering you all these many months! ;)



I don't. I haven't opened them. But from the exterior, the cones look exactly like the 2235-recones I just had done. That's all.I couldn't tell the difference from the cone side... They may have a different number of ribs or a different foam profile, but if so, they are pretty damned similar. That said, a 2235 cone with its over hung coil would be a real "F" up in an LE15A/2215 frame.


Widget

[4313B]

The obvious answer is to change the cabinets.I probably would have run the groundplane measurement like Greg suggested you do first, but whatever, those 4430's are going to slaughter anything you're going to be able to hack together so you did good picking them up.

You should be able to sell all your exponentials and compression drivers to people who want to build some kind of 4344/4345 type systems.

[mikebake]

Those 4430's are going to slaughter anything you're going to be able to hack together so you did good picking them up.
I knew that position was coming in short order; it's a fact. Put aside any hangups and just delve into them. At some point it's really worth just taking some good advice and going with it.

[toddalin]

I probably would have run the groundplane measurement like Greg suggested you do first



Probably still will. I don't do this stuff when the wife is home. ;)

[Doc Mark]

Evening, Todd,

Great scores, my Friend! Well done, indeed! I look forward to hearing how it all turns out for you, and what you think after a bit more experimentation. Thanks for sharing your wonderful scores with us, and congrats, once again! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[BMWCCA]

I don't get it. Does the rest of LA just go to sleep for a week when someone posts JBL monitors on Craig's List?


Studio Sound System - $1200 (Orange, CA)

Reply to: [email protected] [? (http://www.craigslist.org/about/help/replying_to_posts)]
Date: 2008-11-11, 12:21PM PST


Tascam M-35 Mixer 8 Chnl, 2JBL StudioMonitors Mdl 4425, 2 Mid&Highs JBL StudioMonitors Mdl 4430, 2JBL Bass Botms, all $1,200.00 CASH PHONE: 714 788-4858 http://images.craigslist.org/1fd12a1313n53m23p28bbd411c426312014fe.jpg http://images.craigslist.org/1g914a1303n73m63o48bb32da6249bc361deb.jpg http://images.craigslist.org/1471g81393n93ke3m78bb323136b7b5eb1b0b.jpg http://images.craigslist.org/1f41201383o43pc3l68bb8987ba2311e015b6.jpg

[toddalin]

I don't get it. Does the rest of LA just go to sleep for a week when someone posts JBL monitors on Craig's List?

Most other people don't want to bother with that old sh-t I guess. I hesitated a couple weeks before I picked it up. ;)

[hjames]

Most other people don't want to bother with that old sh-t I guess. I hesitated a couple weeks before I picked it up. ;)

Unless you really have a passion for that old shi#, I'd assume no one wants to drop $1200 right about now ...

And what the heck, you now have a semi-sheathed 4502 cabinet (only has top and bottom overhangs) to play with,
instead of those funky L200 cabinets with the extended sides and top+bottom overhangs thats given you all this grief!

[4313B]

Most other people don't want to bother with that old sh-t I guess. I hesitated a couple weeks before I picked it up. ;)Things must be pretty dire out there in L.A. if that old sh-t was around for a couple weeks without anyone buying it all. :(

[BMWCCA]

I hesitated a couple weeks before I picked it up.

:thnkfast:

[toddalin]

:thnkfast:

Again, I see these kinds of things on a regular basis. Comes with the territory. I really don't have the space to store it (and that certainly doesn't make the wife happy), nor do I want to deal with the Bay (though I would) and part it out to make any real coin.

If I feel it may be wanted here and I can make a little for my time/gas/trouble/backache, and it keeps this stuff in service, that good enough. Also realize that (as was this case) it is often not possible to test the stuff to see if it works. (Still haven't.)

Like I've said, the intent was to obtain the 43** cabinets for testing and I really didn't want it all, but it was an all or nothing deal. Anyway, it gives me the oppurtunity to listen to some 4430s as I can simply drop in my 2235 equivelent woofers, (or see what woofers the 43** has in-store) without even having to deal with a refoam job.

[BMWCCA]

Again, I see these kinds of things on a regular basis. Comes with the territory.

Kalifornia sucks! ;)

[toddalin]

Kalifornia sucks! ;)


Yeah, doesn't it? :p

[Mr. Widget]

Yeah, doesn't it? :pOK, sure whatever!

So what's the deal? Problems solved????


Widget

[toddalin]

OK, sure whatever!

So what's the deal? Problems solved????


Widget

The "deal" is that Linda is watching the NFL package today so I won't be ripping the woofer out at the moment to test them in the other cabinets. Will get to it during the week.

Recognize that we use these for all of our regular daily viewing/listening.

[Mr. Widget]

Football!? You're holding up audio progress for football?

Geez! :rotfl:


Widget

[toddalin]

Football!? You're holding up audio progress for football?

Geez! :rotfl:


Widget

Yes, 35 year old progress. ;)

[toddalin]

Why do you think they were reconed with 2235H cones instead of 2215 kits?

Widget

I opened one up (the backs are removable on these) and the contents revealed a 2235H, a 2420 on a 2307 horn with intact plastic lenses, and a 3115 crossover. No wax on the 2420 and screws were obviously removed at some point.

[Mr. Widget]

I opened one up (the backs are removable on these) and the contents revealed a 2235H, a 2420 on a 2307 horn with intact plastic lenses, and a 3115 crossover. No wax on the 2420 and screws were obviously removed at some point.That's cool... so you can play them and compare them. Then you can pull those 2235Hs and pop them into the 4430s and compare them as well... you have hours of fun ahead!


Widget

[Beowulf57]

I opened one up (the backs are removable on these) and the contents revealed a 2235H, a 2420 on a 2307 horn with intact plastic lenses, and a 3115 crossover. No wax on the 2420 and screws were obviously removed at some point.

You could also try out those 3115's with your existing setup.;)

[mech986]

Most other people don't want to bother with that old sh-t I guess. I hesitated a couple weeks before I picked it up. ;)


Things must be pretty dire out there in L.A. if that old sh-t was around for a couple weeks without anyone buying it all. :(

True, there certainly has been a lot of distraction over this October and Novermber with the melt-down and all. :banghead::banghead:

Still, if I'd have seen these before Saturday, they'd be joined at the hip with other JBL brothers. I also would have dropped off the 43xx enclosure to Todd since he needs it more than me. (a lot easier to store them at his house too :bouncy:)

I do like the old stuff, just something about it. However, it would be fun to run a 5.2 with 4430 fronts, 4425 backs and a couple of B380 equivalents. Better than anything at BB/CC these days.

Bart

[toddalin]

You could also try out those 3115's with your existing setup.;)


True that. :D

[toddalin]

Ones on the outsides. :thmbsup:

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/Concrete_Rocks/DSC_0067.jpg



http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/Concrete_Rocks/DSC_0068.jpg

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/Concrete_Rocks/DSC_0069.jpg

[mikebake]

Play a variety of music on them, and just sit back and enjoy. They can quite grow on you. An enduring/endearing design, it seems.

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Todd,

I think it's outstanding that you scored all that wonderful stuff, and that you have already gotten the 4430's up and running!! Definitely a fine looking speaker, and I'm betting you will like listening to it, as well as looking at it! ;):applaud: Congrats on your successes!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc (who "almost" owned some 4430s, just before our L300's came along!);):D

[toddalin]

Hey, Todd,

I think it's outstanding that you scored all that wonderful stuff, and that you have already gotten the 4430's up and running!! Definitely a fine looking speaker, and I'm betting you will like listening to it, as well as looking at it! ;):applaud: Congrats on your successes!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc (who "almost" owned some 4430s, just before our L300's came along!);):D

We'll have to get the locals together for some listening here soon. I was thinking of having the 4425s refoamed and we could have a bunch of stuff to audition (5 varieties of JBLs here plus whatever anyone wants to bring over).

[JeffW]

I just sold my '64 convertible a couple of years ago-both tops, 4 speed car. Looks like the same color, but it needed restoration and I didn't want to tackle all that. Had that thing for about 20 years and paid enough in liability insurance to buy a new car.

[toddalin]

I just sold my '64 convertible a couple of years ago-both tops, 4 speed car. Looks like the same color, but it needed restoration and I didn't want to tackle all that. Had that thing for about 20 years and paid enough in liability insurance to buy a new car.

Yours was probably Sebring Silver. I had it painted Ferrarri Titanio Grigio with a Canna Di Fucile stinger and stripe over the body and down the back.

Insurance is cheap! Full coverage when I had it insured for $25K replacement was just $155/yr. I think its about twice that now that I did the restoration, had it appraised at $60K, and upped the coverage accordingly. I've had this one since ~'84-'85.

[JeffW]

When I first got mine, liability alone was $200/mo! :blink:

[toddalin]

When I first got mine, liability alone was $200/mo! :blink:

J.C. Taylor classic car policy. Car must be stored in a locked garage and is to be used for Corvette events, not daily driving.

[toddalin]

I initially had the 4430s sitting to the outsides of the L200 cabinets putting their centerlines >20 feet apart. The listener sits about 14 feet back from the speakers.

In this position, the speakers were too far apart and sounded more like headphones.

Yesterday I moved them to the insides of the L200s (about 12 feet apart) even though I had to bring them forward about 18" to do it. One word, WOW!!!

While these don't have the phat sound of the L200+/L300, they image better than anything I've been able to listen to and the soundstage is phenomonal, and certainly better than the L200+s where the stage collapses considerably. :applaud:

[Mr. Widget]

Yesterday I moved them to the insides of the L200s even though I had to bring them forward about 18" to do it. One word, WOW!!!

While these don't have the phat sound of the L200+/L300, they image better than anything I've been able to listen to and the soundstage is phenomonal, and certainly better than the L200+s where the stage collapses considerably. :applaud:You're learning... and believe it or not there is even better still to be discovered. :D

Kinda fun isn't it?


Widget

[Chas]

No doubt about it, 4430's have some remarkable qualities. I am happy to hear you're enjoying them.:)

[4313B]

While these don't have the phat sound of the L200+/L300, they image better than anything I've been able to listen to and the soundstage is phenomonal, and certainly better than the L200+s where the stage collapses considerably. :applaud:That's why alot of us moved on as time went on. My 4430's didn't get replaced until JBL came out with the K2 Series and the Array Series. That's a whole lot of service years out of a 4430. :D

[Robh3606]

Yes those 2344's really do sound nice! Glad you like them.

Rob:)

[toddalin]

I've redone my JBL L200 cabinets to increase the internal volume by increasing and incorporating the plinths. This increases the internal volume from ~5 to ~5.75 cubic feet and also raises them up some so that they are now slightly taller than the 4430s. Also, they received some extra stuffing.

Additionally, I replaced the 2402 "bullet" tweeters with the 2405 "slot tweeters" that I traded my LE175s/horns for. Also, the horns have been changed from the short HL91 (2307), to the long HL92 (2312) and the drivers were changed from the LE175s to the larger 2420s. Finally, the crossovers received some minor revisions per Ian's prior comments (though I think I liked it better before).

Before:
http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/L200-2235.jpg
After:
http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/New_Revised_L200.jpg
http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/Revised_L200_v4430.jpg

I also redid my combination center channel/subwoofer (separate chambers in the cabinet). In this case I removed the 1217 "potato masher" horn from the bottom of the cabinet and installed a block-off plate. A 2312 horn replaces the top center port and again the driver was changed from an LE175 to a 2420. The 2405 replaces the 075 tweeter. Finally, the remaining port was shortened 2" to better match the L200 cabinets and some additional stuffing was installed.
Before:
http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/center-2235-w15gti.jpg
After:
http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/Revised_Center.jpg

[John]

Looks like you have been busy!!!:applaud:

[Doc Mark]

Evening, Todd,

Man, you've been busy, Mate!! Well done, and it looks like it was quite a bit of fun, too. I look forward to dropping by for an audition! Any thoughts, now that you've had a chance to compare the two systems, side by side? You know me.... I'm an L300 devotee. I look forward to hearing your thoughts about a comparison between the two systems. Again, well done, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[toddalin]

Evening, Todd,

Man, you've been busy, Mate!! Well done, and it looks like it was quite a bit of fun, too. I look forward to dropping by for an audition! Any thoughts, now that you've had a chance to compare the two systems, side by side? You know me.... I'm an L300 devotee. I look forward to hearing your thoughts about a comparison between the two systems. Again, well done, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

You'll have to listen to the differences yourself to make a decision.

IMHO, I find better highs and intelligibility with the L200/300s but better imaging with the 4430s. Also, the 4430s sound more "tubby" with more bass while the L200/300s sound more open. The L200/300s do vocals better but the 4430's seem to do guitar better with more body.

I think that the LE175s had more warmth than the 2420s and I kind of miss that now, though the vocals are better on the 2420s which is important for TV/Movie watching.