Glasses on, or glasses off...?

[toddalin]

Evening, Clark,


To me, this CD is best enjoyed by just sitting down, beverage of choice close at hand, eyes closed...... and then taking in every single nuance that these fantastic performances offer!! To me, this one deserves your complete, and undivided attention, and the rewards for listening that way are outstanding! :applaud::applaud: Thanks, again, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc


Don't forget one of the best and certainly the cheapest "tweak" toward better sound (regardless of what you listen to/on) is to remove your eyeglasses. They create a diffraction pattern around your head that does affect what you hear. ;)

[Doc Mark]

Don't forget one of the best and certainly the cheapest "tweak" toward better sound (regardless of what you listen to/on) is to remove your eyeglasses. They create a diffraction pattern around your head that does affect what you hear. ;)

Hey, Todd,

I would never have thought of that! Interesting! Has anyone actually measured the effect of wearing eyeglasses, when listening, and can quantify the effect they have on diffraction? Very interesting, indeed! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[John]

Hey, Todd,

I would never have thought of that! Interesting! Has anyone actually measured the effect of wearing eyeglasses, when listening, and can quantify the effect they have on diffraction? Very interesting, indeed! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

Well I have noticed all the top studio engineers wear contact's:p

[Doc Mark]

Well I have noticed all the top studio engineers wear contact's:p

JOHN!!

Now you stop that, right now!! I am trying to get through all the new posts, and then get to bed!! If you keep this up, I'll be laughing all night!!!!!

Doc

[Rolf]

I use glasses, but have never thought they can inflict the sound I hear, as the ears are on the outside of the head, not like the eyes, inside.... om most of us anyway...:p But, it's glass, and some reflections must occur. I will test it out myself, but I doubt I will hear any difference. I believe other things in the room is much more critical than eye glasses. But who knows...:blink:

[toddalin]

I use glasses, but have never thought they can inflict the sound I hear, as the ears are on the outside of the head, not like the eyes, inside.... om most of us anyway...:p But, it's glass, and some reflections must occur. I will test it out myself, but I doubt I will hear any difference. I believe other things in the room is much more critical than eye glasses. But who knows...:blink:

I think that some of it obviously has to do with the type and size glasses that you wear. I wear "aviator" style with rather large lenses and can definately hear a difference.

Even though my eye sockets are sunk in my head, my glasses stand out from my face. The lens certainly has an effect on the the opposite ear (i.e., left speaker path to right ear is partially obstructed and vice versa). Also, moving your head changes the diffraction pattern.

Some people claim to hear differences in cables/interconnects/etc. I've never been able to do an instantaneous A/B for these type tests so don't know if I can. But, I can instantaneously remove/replace my glasses and, to me, there is an obvious difference.

[Rolf]

I think that some of it obviously has to do with the type and size glasses that you wear. I wear "aviator" style with rather large lenses and can definately hear a difference.

Even though my eye sockets are sunk in my head, my glasses stand out from my face. The lens certainly has an effect on the the opposite ear (i.e., left speaker path to right ear is partially obstructed and vice versa). Also, moving your head changes the diffraction pattern.

Some people claim to hear differences in cables/interconnects/etc. I've never been able to do an instantaneous A/B for these type tests so don't know if I can. But, I can instantaneously remove/replace my glasses and, to me, there is an obvious difference.

Hi Tod. From about 2,5 hours I have been listening to Niel Young "Heart of Gold" on DVD using 2ch DTS. I have taken my glasses on and off, and I can, incredibly, hear a difference. Better without the glasses. I got my wife, who isn't really into sound to do the same, and she said "yes, it's better without the glasses.

We don't use very large ones, but the result an conclusion are clear.

It's the same about cables. Do a "blind test", and I am sure you can hear a difference here to.

[boputnam]

I think that some of it obviously has to do with the type and size glasses that you wear......

[4313B]

:rotfl:

[Rolf]

What is so funny in a serious thread? Pictures of over sized glasses or :rotfl:. Minor changes .. many of these small ones can make a big one. One cable, glasses, a wall paper, type of floor. If you add them you might hear a difference. But you who don't care will never hear it.

[Hoerninger]

Has anyone actually measured the effect of wearing eyeglasses, when listening, and can quantify the effect they have on diffraction?
Yesterday I took off my glasses and there was a noticable effect which I would describe with more clarity in the higher mids. But the effect is small.
I am used to my glasses for decades, should I take them off?
___________
Peter

PS: Now I am curious about the glasses of Elton John - wrong studio monitors?

[toddalin]

Yesterday I took off my glasses and there was a noticable effect which I would describe with more clarity in the higher mids. But the effect is small.


That's what I'm talkin' about. Sure the change is small, but I've always found it to be positive.

But look how much is spent in terms of charge coupling, by-pass caps, bi-wiring, heavy wire, gold interconnects, power conditioners, raising the cables off the floor, and only God knows what that may have no more effect than removing your glasses.

I'm not saying that these other "improvements" don't also pay off in sonic dividends, only that their addition/enhancement may be no more so (but maybe different) than removing your glasses.

Again, I have no way to instantaneously A/B these other "enhancements," so I don't know how much of a difference that any or all of these would make to my ears. But, like the others who have now tried it (I don't know why you never tried before :o:), I find that it pays off a sonic benefit and always remove my glasses when doing serious listening (and close my eyes).

[boputnam]

What is so funny in a serious thread? It's a joke, Rolf, obviously. Someone said the "type and size of glasses might matter". Simple. Have a laugh.

But you who don't care will never hear it.Caring doesn't make it true.


...(and close my eyes).Now that certainly will make a difference - in your ability to concentrate.

Sensory isolation enhances those senses that aren't. I do believe that helps, and use it. In live SR, I often look away from stage, stare at the console and test myself for "what am I not hearing?", or "what is out-of-balance?". Seeing someone playing can convince you are hearing it. It's called psychoacoustics - a common and large pitfall. I suspect this eyeglass thing is impacted by psychoacoustics. I have not had the beneficial experiences shared here - unless, of course I was wearing those grossly oversized glasses.

I struggle with any "A/B" tests where a clean blind "B" is not possible. You-all know when you are taking your glasses off - therefore, it is impossible to create a blind test for this. To me the observations are mooted - they are too likely compromised by real psychoacoustics.

Todd obviously has very acute and trained hearing and plays a high degree of attention to minute subtleties. I admire that.

[Robh3606]

Now that certainly will make a difference - in your ability to concentrate.

Sensory isolation enhances those senses that aren't.

Hmm so is that why a set-up can sound better in a dark room. Less visual distractions??

Rob:)

[boputnam]

Hmm so is that why a set-up can sound better in a dark room. Less visual distractions??Well, there is two approaches - black out (or eyes closed), or psychoactive agents, which help you "see" music! :rotfl:

I better be serious, or Rolf will whack me again... :bash: :)

Certainly, Rob. The medical community speaks to enhanced hearing capabilities in the blind, enhanced visualization in the deaf.

You are also asking about left-brain - right-brain division of duties. There is an excellent article in a recent New Yorker: "Insight on Insight". It spoke to the need to keep the left-brain quiet so the right-brain can lazily brouse through the brain's database. That's when insight occurs, when solutions are found, when problems are solved. Trouble is, the left-brain is dominant, and easily "awoken" (noise in another room, someone talking at you, etc) - all of which conspire to the right-brain resuming it's subordinate role. This slows insight or discovery or the "Ah HA!" events. The article spoke to those occurrences of insight during mid-night, in the shower, when idly walking the beach, etc. Quite a provocative article.

Anyway, closing the eyes would almost certainly stifle some for the dominant left-brain duties and the right-brain would open-up. That's my read anyway...

Aren't movies better in darkened environments? It focusses your senses on the screen and the audio tracks. Someone innocently passing popcorn can totally ruin one's focus on, and being lost in, a movie...

[toddalin]

I suspect this eyeglass thing is impacted by psychoacoustics. I have not had the beneficial experiences shared here - unless, of course I was wearing those grossly oversized glasses.

I struggle with any "A/B" tests where a clean blind "B" is not possible. You-all know when you are taking your glasses off - therefore, it is impossible to create a blind test for this. To me the observations are mooted - they are too likely compromised by real psychoacoustics.

Todd obviously has very acute and trained hearing and plays a high degree of attention to minute subtleties. I admire that.

Thank you, I do. I also have the ability to differentiate sounds in the din continually amazing my wife to no end.

I say put this to a pole. And it need not be limited to people who wear glasses. Anyone can obtain and put on a pair and take them off for the test.

[toddalin]

So who is the eye surgeon pushing this thread behind the scenes? :D

Certainly not me and I won't have laser surgery just because I refuse to give up my close-up vision for detail work. :p

And yes, I did have "ear training" as a music major at UNLV and I was also the only one in the electronic organ repair classes who could tune the organ by ear, other than the instructor.

[Hoerninger]

I suspect this eyeglass thing is impacted by psychoacoustics.

But you know obstacles are of impact to sound.

Assuming 1,5 inches of glass diameter the sound starts at a certain frequency to be more reflected than to be refracted. This will be at about c/(pi x d) = 2,9 kHz.

My observation is that the effect is very small but noticable. And I can only perceive it when I turn my face directly to a speaker. For me it is unnoticable when looking into the center between two running speakers. This makes sense as in the latter case the ears are better filled with sound and the glasses are angular to the direction of sound and the obstacle is smaller.

You know that the head as a whole has a great effect on the frequency response with irregularities, think of dummy head stereo.

For me this effect of glasses is so irrelevant that I claim to be free of any subjectivity. ( And my speaker cables for multichannel playback are just like a ball of wool on the ground.;) )
____________
Peter

[boputnam]

...I was also the only one in the electronic organ repair classes who could tune the organ by ear...That there is Perfect Pitch, a rare thing indeed. I have what I term "Brutally Relative Pitch", which means I crawl out of my skin if things are not tuned together, close as possible. I am forever asking 'could we tune up, please?'

[toddalin]

That there is Perfect Pitch, a rare thing indeed. I have what I term "Brutally Relative Pitch", which means I crawl out of my skin if things are not tuned together, close as possible. I am forever asking 'could we tune up, please?'

Not perfect pitch. They'd give you the starting note on the Conn Strobotuner and we had to do the rest by ear from that. ;) It's done by comparing the beat frequencies of the notes against each other, etc. Still not easy to get the other 11 right though.

Like you, I have very good relative pitch, and God I hate when they sing off-key on America's Got Talent!

[boputnam]

For me this effect of glasses is so irrelevant that I claim to be free of any subjectivity. Hi, Peter...

I had a thought, tonight. I KNOW it will make Rolf crazy, but, by taking off your glasses all of you are making my point.

Removing your glasses reduces the effectiveness of your eyesight, SO, your aural sensory perception is heightened. Of course it sounds better - your eyesight is impaired so your "earsight" kicks into high! You guys all just made my argument (and my day...!).

:D


:duck:

[Ducatista47]

This should not have been a secret. I thought everyone had at least experienced the heightened sense of attention and hearing when listening with the lights turned down or out, or with the eyes closed.

I only pop my glasses (nearsighted) back on to get a better view of the glowing vacuum tubes across the room. I listen to music in relative darkness nearly every time, and have done so since at least 1965.

Clark

[Rolf]

Ni Bo. No, it doesn't make me crazy at all. What I meant in my comment is that when I a few days ago, togheter with my wife experienced a little more "clear", "better", or should I say difference in the sound, removing my glasses I think this is great. Regarding "care", I mean if one does not even bother to try out different things i the hi-fi setup, one can't expect to hear any difference either.

We have a saying here in Norway that translated is something like this: "Many small streams makes (at the end) a large river", and that is what I mean getting a little better sound changing a cable, binding posts etc, and remove the glasses.:)


Hi, Peter...

I had a thought, tonight. I KNOW it will make Rolf crazy, but, by taking off your glasses all of you are making my point.

Removing your glasses reduces the effectiveness of your eyesight, SO, your aural sensory perception is heightened. Of course it sounds better - your eyesight is impaired so your "earsight" kicks into high! You guys all just made my argument (and my day...!).

:D


:duck:

[toddalin]

Hi, Peter...

I had a thought, tonight. I KNOW it will make Rolf crazy, but, by taking off your glasses all of you are making my point.

Removing your glasses reduces the effectiveness of your eyesight, SO, your aural sensory perception is heightened. Of course it sounds better - your eyesight is impaired so your "earsight" kicks into high! You guys all just made my argument (and my day...!).

:D

:duck:


Come on Bo, give us a break! :banghead:

I've worked as a scientist for the last 30 years, and have written over 600 technical studies on air quality and noise analysis. I'm quite fastidious and have never had a study successfully challanged in a court of law.

Glasses on of off, my eyes are still closed, so your theory doesn't hold water. I would think that others here are doing the same. :p

I can't do a true "double blind" test because I know when they are on or off (even with my eyes shut). But I can do a "double blind" test in that I can't see in either case.

It is only reasonable to assume that when you place a couple "glass planes" in front of your head that obstruct the path of the sound to your ears, that there is a sonic difference.

The question is not if we are hearing this difference. The real question is why are you not hearing it? Maybe you've done a few too many gigs and your hearing is called into question.

[boputnam]

Glasses on of off, my eyes are still closed, so your theory doesn't hold water. Good lord, it was a joke. Man you take yourself real seriously.


I can't do a true "double blind" test because I know when they are on or off (even with my eyes shut). Uh, that was my point.


But I can do a "double blind" test in that I can't see in either case. :blink:


The question is not if we are hearing this difference. The real question is why are you not hearing it? Maybe you've done a few too many gigs and your hearing is called into question.Pretty cheap shot for a man of your reported scholarly level. Whatever.

FWIW, and you should really have thought about this, I am very protective of my hearing. I do a lot of shows, but mine are quieter than most (Saturday's festival was a searing 88-89dBA at FOH, during our set, dood, and was commented on by dozens that it was wonderful to have such a great set at such a comfortable volume). I spend a lot of times in the "cans", and at volume lower than anyone who visits FOH. As I've posted elsewhere, it's easy to be loud; it takes effort and diligence to "keep it down". But your eyes must have been wide shut during that.

So, carry-on with your psychoacoustic tests. Just because I don't agree with your findings doesn't make you right. Nor does it make me wrong, or deaf.

[boputnam]

Ni Bo. No, it doesn't make me crazy at all. What I meant in my comment is that when I a few days ago, togheter with my wife experienced a little more "clear", "better", or should I say difference in the sound, removing my glasses I think this is great. Hi, Rolf...

I find your experience(s) real interesting. I do experience what I would call improved concentration, but I have never noticed what many of you are describing. I'm pretty hard of seeing, so I rarely take my spectacles off - but when I do I have not noticed anything different from that when I simply close my eyes.

But, I am a victim of my circumstances. Usually when listening, I am immersed in the character of the mix - radio, CD's, vinyl, whatever the source. Understanding and evaluating the instrumental balance and the tonality of each instruments is riveting for me. It is very distracting because that is what I am taxed with delivering truthfully during a live show.

I have commented to the artists in the band(s) that I usually don't really know how good a show is until I listen to the "soundboards" (2-track unretouched CD-R's), after the show. I spend so much of the show pedantically soloing and evaluating in Smaart each and every input -tweaking the EQ on the snare, or toms, and getting the cymbals mixed just right and on-and-on. I am truly in the trees and often cannot spend too much time hearing the forest. There is lots to do. I cannot talk to anyone; I cannot visit with my wife or any guests at FOH. Those "events" cause left-brain activity and the nuances my right-brain thrives on get lost. This does bother me - I am a bit envious of the dancing and cheering fans. Many shows I feel "cheated" that I missed the 'party'. Two-hour sets go by in a flash...But I'm pretty good at what I do, learing with each and every show, and really enjoy the challenge.

So, as I say, I am interested in what you report, but don't share the experience.

But, I will leave this thread to those smarter than me on this subject.

:wave:

[toddalin]

Good lord, it was a joke. Man you take yourself real seriously.




With you, who can ever tell? Most of the time if and when you do agree with me, I think you are just being facetious.

(And bubble gum in my ears wasn't a cheap shot?)

[boputnam]

With you, who can ever tell? Most of the time if and when you do agree with me, I think you are just being facetious.Todd! Ferhellsake, man. Your areas of knowledge and expertise are obvious and respectable. But I am perpetually tainted with a relentless sense of humor. It is clearly beyond my control. But that does not obviate my lauds to you. Again, ferhellsake, man...

You added this after my post quote:

(And bubble gum in my ears wasn't a cheap shot?)Never made a comment like that. Wasn't me.

If you are referring to "psychoacoustic" comment - you miss the point. In my business, we see constant and serial reminders of how powerful this is. When I am doing foldback, artists often want a little more or less of this or that. So often, I am just reaching to the knob and they say "oh, that's much better - thanks", and I've not yet done anything. Likewise, ALL FOH engineers I know, when within reach of fans, fake tweak any knob to satisfy some (often mundane) complaint the fan might have on the sound. Not all are mundane, but many enthusiasts get lost in the moment, and a fake tweak makes their day.

I have learned to be very respectful and recognizing of psychoacoustics - they can cause me to either not do, or to over do something, either of which is bad.

[4313B]

And bubble gum in my ears wasn't a cheap shot?No.

See the thread just started on tinnitus.



I thought the photo of the girl in glasses was entirely approriate Bo. :yes:
It's just funny and I like funny.

[boputnam]

I thought the photo of the girl in glasses was entirely approriate Bo. :yes:
It's just funny and I like funny.I was laughing so hard. It did address the issue of "size and style", I thought... :)

[Hoerninger]

When you can hear a difference than it is your result, when you hear nothing it is of equal value.

Todd has described how to perform testing. When I say I have to look to the speaker it was meant to turn the head in that direction.

As said for me it is a very subtle effect. With normal music I do not notice it. For testing I took hiss from left or right. (Telarc 1812 SACD has some tracks.)

As said I do not care as I live with my glasses. Or should I consider to go for a plastic surgery to model my head for ideal refraction whatever this will be?

I think we are living with our heads the way they are.
(It is time for another :argue: :die: :duel::banana: :bash: )
___________
Peter ;)

[indycraft]

Perhaps we could have our glasses constructed from oxygen free wire.:o:

[toddalin]

Perhaps we could have our glasses constructed from oxygen free wire.:o:

This could be a rare case where you would want thinner rather than thicker wire too. ;)

[SEAWOLF97]

clothing absorbs sound waves ??

hmmmm, clothes absorbing sound waves ....speakers sound better "in the nude" ?? :blink:

[Robh3606]

hmmmm, clothes absorbing sound waves ....speakers sound better "in the nude" ?? :blink:

Maybe we should listen that way too

Rob:p

[Doc Mark]

Hey, Ian,

Is that photo of you and your Bride? Sunburn is not a good thing, that's for sure! Let us know if that's actually you, Mate! Thanks, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Ian Mackenzie]

Me..are you kidding..I am the grungy Aussie last seen at Time Square.

That's the Lansing Mafia aka ....Robh3606 and darling wife.

[Rolf]

clothing absorbs sound waves ??

hmmmm, clothes absorbing sound waves ....speakers sound better "in the nude" ?? :blink:

:rotfl:Yes! that would be fun!:rotfl:Imagine all the members in our local "lydlaug" (translate, some sort of club with sound and hi-fi interests. (And other interests too)), coming at our monthly meeting, and is ordered to listen in the nude!:rotfl:

[Hoerninger]

:rotfl:Imagine all the members in our local "lydlaug" :rotfl:
Gals are appreciated? :D
____________
Peter

[hjames]

C'mon guys - pictures of naked speakers or big folded horns is one thing- I enjoyed that recent picture of a Walsh F under the covers!
Woohoo - speaker p0rn!

But please, although I am SURE they are nice guys, please,
no pictures of naked norwegians (or anyone else) laying together under the audioshelves :blink:

naked listening is best done at home with a loved one (or 2) ...:applaud:

[JBL 4645]

Naked listening now playing on this beach!:D

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk123/IndianaJones34/JBLnaked1.jpg

[Rolf]

Gals are appreciated? :D
____________
Peter

If you mean females ... -sure ... They are welcome. But they are normally not at home when we have our meetings. They have made something that we can eat, then shosoooo out of the house for us maniacs ...I am sure that my wife will not listen to music nude in front of others.

[SEAWOLF97]

Thank Heavens for this thread !!!!

I was listening to the system yesterday and you know, winter is coming - the toes were getting a little cold.
So I got some socks and covered my feet

Immediately noticed about a 3db. drop in the 5Khz mids , vocals seemed thin, I thot "damn, TD is right about those terrible mids, what am I TO DO ??"

Then I remembered this thread, "glasses diffract - carpet/curtains/clothes absorb" , took off the sox and mids came right back. WHEW !!! THAT WAS A CLOSE ONE. :barf:

[Krunchy]

With the help of some psychoactive non-prescription medicine one might also like to see the music as well, and for that one may be needing glasses...the better to see the music with :D

[moldyoldy]

Moin Peter,


...When I say I have to look to the speaker it was meant to turn the head in that direction...
Peter

Exactly. Just like the classic Ray Charles/Stevie Wonder head roll. They wear (wore) specs... big ones. Plenty of (p)early reflections from the teeth too. :D

Talk about your double blind test... :blink:

Gotta go strap in now to prepare for the sligshot effect as I pass this relatively lifeless void. :p

[Hoerninger]

Moin Moldyoldy,

back again? :bouncy: I hardly believe it - in this nearly dispensable thread!
And you still get me thinking (and looking up) quite a while what you have meant with:

Gotta go strap in now to prepare for the sligshot effect as I pass this relatively lifeless void.May be
"A butterflies wing beat influences the whole universe" or even - I just found it -
"He sows the wind and reaps the storm"?
___________
Peter ;)

[moldyoldy]

Nah, much simpler than that. Just passing thru on a rather long, elliptical orbit. ;)

Take care! :)