PlayStation 3 as a BluRay Player - audio decoding questions

[UreiCollector]

Hi all,

I'm considering picking up a PS3 as opposed to a Sony BDP-S1. Why? It seems I get a whole lot more product for the $$$....even if performance isn't up to the BDP-S1, I imagine it will still be a big step up compared to upscaled DVD from my DVP9000ES...which i'm keeping in the system no matter what, as it's the best CD player I've yet to hear.


My question is to anyone who has used a PS3 as a source.....how satisfied are you with it as a BluRay player? Also, will it "down-convert" to DolbyDigital or DTS?

I'm using a Sony TA-E9000ES as a processor.....will i be able to use this with the PS3, without headaches (optical input)? I do not have the ability to decode DTSes or DDex....and don't really feel that i need 7.1 etc, when 5.1 does the job very well.

Thanks!

[UreiCollector]

From the Sony Manual....

*1 A device compatible with Linear PCM 7.1. Ch. is required to output 7.1 Ch. audio from the HDMI OUT connector.

*2 The system does not support output from DTS-HD 7.1 Ch.
DTS-HD 7.1 Ch. audio is output from 5.1 or a lower channel.


Apparently, if I select Optical out, all will mix down to 5.1, so I should be good from that standpoint.

Anyone have experience with the video/audio quality of the PS3?

[Audiobeer]

It's a lot better than anything I have viewed before. At the time I bought my PS3 the Blue Ray stand alone CD player was almost twice the cost. It was a no brainer......still is to me. I honestly cannot tell the difference in audio between the PS2, XBOX, or any other dedicate DVD players.

[johnaec]

For a recent flight I picked up a Home Theater magazine for something to read, (I'll see if I can find it). Snobs though some of the reviewers were, they picked the Playstation PS3 as the Blu-ray player of choice! As for connection details - I can't remember if they talked about those or not...

John

[UreiCollector]

Thank you for the response guys! I'm going to go ahead and pick one up, once I can get it through my "purchasing department". :applaud: I may just buy, and then beg for forgiveness though....

I've spoken to a couple of co-workers who own the PS3, and they seem pleased with it too.

Thanks again!

[johnaec]

Link to another review: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=201071&postcount=42

John

[Mr. Widget]

I'm using a Sony TA-E9000ES as a processor.....will i be able to use this with the PS3, without headaches (optical input)? I do not have the ability to decode DTSes or DDex....and don't really feel that i need 7.1 etc, when 5.1 does the job very well.Unless you have a very large room I agree with you that 5.1 is all you need. In fact I'd bet that more 7.1 systems sound worse than they would if they were set up in 5.1... not to mention that most movies are mixed in 5.1 and the 7.1 mix is only synthesized.

All that said, I don't think you can get the high def audio out of the PS3 without using HDMI. I think you will have a lower rez 5.1 mix.


Widget

[Ian Mackenzie]

Interesting points.

The player can send out digital via optical to decode (7.1 capability I have read), and it sends out analogue audio via the HDMi and a special multipin mini scart that holds 2 channel audio and the component video.

In the settings it says it decodes 48 k, 24/88/196.(I have not studied it too closely)

I have only used the Playstation a bit and the video (non blue ray disks) and 2 channel Dolby appear excellent. The Cd play back output analogue 2 channel appears also very good (dyanamic and clear) but I have not had an opportunity to critically assess that yet. I am use it as a Cd transport..not sure yet.

Wiith a wonder box that can decode no doubt the results would be quite good.

As multipurpose device I think its hard to beat.

[UreiCollector]

From a $$ to feature standpoint, I don't think there is any competition.

My understanding is the 7.1 comes out on HDMI (which I will not be able to access), and the 5.1 on optical.

As far as sample rates go, I'm not sure what comes out on the optical. I'm guessing they down-convert to DD. I'm really hoping for 192/24, but do not know....and I'm not sure at this point what the TA-E9000ES will be able to decode....still have some reading to do, havn't pulled the manual out in years.....

It makes me happy to hear that everyone is happy with the video quality thus far, that was my biggest concern.


I have to agree with Mr. Widget, I'm betting a lot of 7.1 systems just don't sound any better than 5.1, and may infact sound worst.....more is not always better.....

[UreiCollector]

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/02/why-the-ps3-isnt-the-best-blu-ray-player/

Looks as if the PS3 does not support DTS-HD along with some other shortcomings. Hmm.....

[Rolf]

I guess a "game machine" is not intended for hi-fi use anymore than a hi-fi product is intended for gaming.

Different quality's is needed for the desired end result.

[Ian Mackenzie]

:)I think the correct term is Home Entertainment.

HiFi is such a broad term and is open to wide subjective interpretation.

For example I dont consider anything less than a Passlabs X250.50 to be Hifi and I am entitled to hold that opinion. On the otherhand I dont consider DVd, DTS or Dolby Digital playback to be Hifi but I find it quite enjoyable home entertainment.

The reason for various audio options only be channelled in HTMi in the Playstation 3 is that the newer games support 7.1 for example and they are usually played on a wide sreen that supports HTML

The machine does however support digital optical out and does have an option DVD/Cd a remote that I also use so it can be used as a CD/DVd player.

The load up time is much faster than any DVD player.

From my point of view I did not see the point of buying just another DVD (blue ray or HD ) player and this machine does so much more incl www downloads and the whole mp3 thing.

I expect I will acquire a 40 inch full HD 1080 compliant flat sceen in a few months so if I see a Blue Ray disk I like it should work well.

[Rolf]

I agree in much of what you are saying Ian. To me home entertainment is very different than hi-fi. And yes, it is fun to play "Concert for George" in DTS on my 52" screen, but it is not hi-fi.;)

I really don't watch many movies. Most is being watched from movie channels and I buy maybe 10 - 15 DVD's a year, and that is why most of my money spent on this hobby in in the 2ch setup.

You feel that Passlabs is the only suitable amps, and that is fine with me. I believe there are other brands on the marked also witch is as good or better. I also have strong opinions on some issues, as you have.:)

[merlin]

Just to add my 2c worth, I had a long chat with one of the leading audio gurus whilst in Japan recently. He has been experimenting running the HDMI out of the PS3, then converting to spdif and feeding his favourite DAC. In his opinion, the PS3 is the finest CD transport he has used and easily bested the $25K Pi Tracer he compared it to.

It's worth remembering that Sony intended the PS3 to be a high quality audio platform from the start and designed it to appeal to serious audiophiles (well OK they forgot to take the name off and get a Six Moons review but you get my drift).

As a BluRay player I find it highly satisfactory and of course it is upgradeable via regular firmware updates. Frankly it's a steal whereas all the other players are daylight robbery.

[Mr. Widget]

In his opinion, the PS3 is the finest CD transport he has used and easily bested the $25K Pi Tracer he compared it to.
OK, but how much influence does a transport really have in the first place? I completely agree that DACs matter and especially at the output of the DAC where we are talking about analog, but a transport? Once you get them out of the dirt aren't they all petty much the same?

The best thing about the PS3 is that it is a bit quicker to spin up a disc. Most of the Blu-ray players take so long to load, I have finished my popcorn and lost interest in the film before the film begins.


Widget

[Ian Mackenzie]

The precison of the transport matters and it would seem not all transports are equals. Previously I tried a Lavry dac with a large anti jitter buffer on 3 different cd players with coaxial digital outputs (I used as transports).

A hi end Denon CD player was the best, an older CDC cd player the worst and my Pioneer was somewhere in between. Differences were heard in the frequency extension, image breadth / depth and coloration.

The Lavry dac had/has superior dac to the internal dac in the Denon in terms of dynamics.

A $140 direction digital co axial cable also made a real difference.

Don't ask me why.

[UreiCollector]

Just to add my 2c worth, I had a long chat with one of the leading audio gurus whilst in Japan recently. He has been experimenting running the HDMI out of the PS3, then converting to spdif and feeding his favourite DAC. In his opinion, the PS3 is the finest CD transport he has used and easily bested the $25K Pi Tracer he compared it to.

It's worth remembering that Sony intended the PS3 to be a high quality audio platform from the start and designed it to appeal to serious audiophiles (well OK they forgot to take the name off and get a Six Moons review but you get my drift).

As a BluRay player I find it highly satisfactory and of course it is upgradeable via regular firmware updates. Frankly it's a steal whereas all the other players are daylight robbery.

Thanks for the input on the PS3. I'm still considering buying one, just from the $ to options standpoint. My hesistation on DTS-HD support etc is a moot point when my audio processor doesn't support the format anyways. =) I'm really after the video improvement, and personally appreciate a good DTS mix anyhow. I think I may have 'silver ears', and that is probably a blessing, as 'golden ears' would most likely drive me to maddness!

I find myself listening to CD's 98% of the time, and between the DVP-S9000ES (the finest sounding CD player I have heard yet IMHO), and my soon to be had TA-P9000ES Analog Preamp (thanks for the free-bee Dad!)....I think my ears are going to be happy.


My 2c on the CD transport topic.....

So long as you can get the 1's and 0's to a good DAC in a timely manner, I think the DAC is the most important part of the puzzle, I agree with Widget here. I think the DAC in the Sony 9000ES DVD player, along with it's associated analog stage sounds much better than the DAC and analog stages in the E9000ES Processor (hence the need for the P9000ES analog preamp). Though Ian probably has better ears than I do, and I have been wrong before.

I would not hesitate to say that build quality, and personal preferance does weigh heavily on a persons impressions of any piece of equipment. And good build quality does lend itself to better sounding equip.

I'm rambling on, so I'll stop now. Cheers everyone!

[Ian Mackenzie]

Yeah well those 4345 can be PITA..you hear everything you don't want to hear as well.

That's why I pump a lot of my music through my mid fi system.:D.(Bose)

[merlin]

OK, but how much influence does a transport really have in the first place?
Widget

My experience has always been quite a lot actually if not clock synced. I'm afraid I've never been of the "cheap DVD player does it all school. I suspect the issue is with timing issues over SPDIF but only because I can't think of any other reason why I hear differences.:) But then Dac's with Ram buffers are supposed to be transport independent and again not the case in my experience. Ah maybe I've read too many Stereophools ;)

[UreiCollector]

Ah maybe I've read too many Stereophools ;)
:applaud:Too funny!

[UreiCollector]

That's why I pump a lot of my music through my mid fi system.:D.(Bose)
It's funny you say that....I find that I listen to the 'music' on low-fi systems, and i listen to the 'system and not the music' on hi-fi systems. Sometimes I enjoy those low-fi systems quite a bit. =)

[Ian Mackenzie]

Yeah,

Its like listening in the car.

Lets open a thead on installing JBLs in a 1970 Dodge Challenger.

Back to the play station I saw a review yesterday that compared 6 Blue players including the PS 3.

According to the review and issue with alot of Blue Ray players is they are crap on regular PAL....not an issue for NTSC is suppose.

The other thing was only one player, the Samsung spat out all the new audio formats in Bit Stream.

To me its more to do with on the disk in terms of video content and not audio with films like Gladiator although I do like my DVD music disks.

If you are interested I will buy the magazine.

I suspect we will need to wait for a 2nd or 3rd generation Blue Ray player the get the audio standards sorted...like DVD audio and SACD.

[merlin]

Yeah,

According to the review and issue with alot of Blue Ray players is they are crap on regular PAL....not an issue for NTSC is suppose.

.

According to reviews, the latest model is always better than the older one.;)

The one thing I would say, purely about the whole HD experience, is that unless you are watching on a good sized front projection system it's hardly worth worrying about IMHO. Certainly on screens smaller than 50", 5 minutes into most films I totally forget I'm watching on BluRay. On good films anyway.

But I really wouldn't take too much notice of reviews.:)

[Mr. Widget]

Certainly on screens smaller than 50", 5 minutes into most films I totally forget I'm watching on BluRay. On good films anyway.Yes, yes, yes!!!

Kinda like SACD on a lo fi stereo. It just doesn't matter.


Widget

[UreiCollector]

I suspect we will need to wait for a 2nd or 3rd generation Blue Ray player the get the audio standards sorted...like DVD audio and SACD.
Hence the reason the DVP-S9000ES DVD/SACD player will be staying in the system, no matter what. :)

This stuff changes so fast....I'll be buying something else in 4 years anyways.



Oh, and I'm running 106" front projection here, with a DVDO iSCAN HD+ scalar. Should see the benefit of extra scan lines.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Yep,

Its all marketing ploy to upgrade and so on...and is sort of why I went the PS3 route.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hence the reason the DVP-S9000ES DVD/SACD player will be staying in the system, no matter what. :)

This stuff changes so fast....I'll be buying something else in 4 years anyways.



Oh, and I'm running 106" front projection here, with a DVDO iSCAN HD+ scalar. Should see the benefit of extra scan lines.

In if your screen can accept full 1080p then you will see a difference.

To the best of my knowledge only some Plasma and cetain LCD screens will do it properly.

Edit I spoke to my brother (who has been a network Tech for 30 years) today and he said if the screan is the real deal you will be gob smacked by the difference (he was refering to the top of the line Pioneer screens)

[merlin]

Oh, and I'm running 106" front projection here, with a DVDO iSCAN HD+ scalar. Should see the benefit of extra scan lines.

The difference will be huge. The first time I played a HD game on a 102" screen I was laughing all the way through. And that was using a Sony HS20 on 720p. If your projector is newer and capable of 1080p, you will be astonished and wonder why you didn't do this earlier.

[Rolf]

According to the review and issue with alot of Blue Ray players is they are crap on regular PAL....not an issue for NTSC is suppose.



Is it right that a NTCS disk looks better than PAL disk? :blink:

[Ian Mackenzie]

Rolf,

No.

That was not the point.......PAL is used down under and NTSC is used in the USA. They are different systems.

For some reason some Blue Ray players do not perform well on std playback of PAL and is suggested people do not bin their std definition DVD players.

[UreiCollector]

The difference will be huge. The first time I played a HD game on a 102" screen I was laughing all the way through. And that was using a Sony HS20 on 720p. If your projector is newer and capable of 1080p, you will be astonished and wonder why you didn't do this earlier.
Using a Panasonic PT-AE900U 720P 3 chip LCD (for $1200 I could not beat it). I'm sure I'll see some improvement with the BluRay. thanks for the encouragement! I just need to get it through my billing department (wifey).

[johnaec]

The difference will be huge.You got that right! I just got my first HDTV, (720P), about a week ago, and upgraded to DirecTV HDTV service. Even at 720P, (the highest broadcast mode right now), the experience is mesmerizing! :applaud: And that's on a little 23" unit.

John

[Rolf]

We have PAL here in Norway (Europe) too. My DVD player and TV can show both, and PAL disks ( or the earlier laser disks ) has always given a higher quality using PAL. But this is standard DVD disks, so I was wondering if there was any change for blue ray.

As you know the world is cut up in zones. The US have zone 1, here we have zone 2. I have no idea what zones is in the rest of the world.

Thanks


Rolf,

No.

That was not the point.......PAL is used down under and NTSC is used in the USA. They are different systems.

For some reason some Blue Ray players do not perform well on std playback of PAL and is suggested people do not bin their std definition DVD players.

[Ian Mackenzie]

http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/sony-ps3-update-bd-live
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/transports/high-definition-dvd-players-hd-dvd-blu-ray/ps3-and-bd-2.0

http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/sony-announces-dts-hd-support-ps3

If you have a PS 3 download the latest firmware.

Ian

[Ian Mackenzie]

Here is a very useful thread on the audio aspects of the PS3
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=40872 (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=40872)

The bottom line is the PS3 won't bit stream the higher level audio, only via the HDMI interface.(7.1 PCM, 5.1 PCM, Dolby TrueHD, DTSHD-MA, via Htmi)

However, the PS3 can decode DTSHD-MA and Dolby TrueHD internally and send out to the receiver as PCM. In order to fully realize HD audio (PCM, DTSHD-MA, & Dolby TrueHD) you should set your PS3 to Linear PCM through HDMI.


Essentially you need a HT wonder box that is HDMI compliant for Blue Ray. Brands like Sony, Onkyo and I think Denon have these now.
That is not such a big deal as you still need an HDMI switch centre for your HDTV, PVR, and cd player.

But I still think te PS3 is the best value Blue Ray player on the market with all the other add on features.

I used it as red book player last night and with a friend we had a mini cd player shoot out using high quality recordings.

The PS3 was judged a superior CD source to a Marantz 6600 universal player and an external decoder using the PS3 as a transport via optical out. Specifically the PS3 was more dyamanic with a bigger and more linear tonal presentation. It also imaged far better than the other Cd sources.


Ian


ps Heather , thanks for the correct terminology.