My latest audio system.....

[spkrman57]

If I uploaded the pics correctly it should show up.

System components:

DRD 300B monoblocks
Audio Note CD player (tube buffered outputs)
Custom built preamp (6SN7 gain stage w/cathode follower)
Advent 300 rcvr (using tuner only through tape outputs)
Sansui AU 7900 integrated amp (rebuilt/upgraded output and driver section) using power amp section only for LF duty
Rane AC 22 2 way electronic crossover (weak link in system)

Speaker section:
LF duty - Eminence 15" sealed 4.5 cu ft cabs
HF duty - Great Plains 399 compression driver on Altec 311-60 horn
Crossover @ 800hz 4th order LR

This is not my end-all system, just something to hold me together until I finish my 3rd Edgarhorn system this fall/winter.

Questions/comments welcome!

And Yeah, my system is not as pretty as some the big hitters on this forum. But poor folks need good audio also!

Regards, Ron

[Krunchy]

Hi Ron!
I think you got a real nice setup there, I would certainly be interested in listning to it and would consequently enjoy throwing back a couple of bevies in that environment.
Great listening room, enjoy! :applaud::thmbsup:

[spkrman57]

Voice coil difference for time alignment is 18". The 311-60 is not a short horn.

[Thom]

Love it but curious why such large horns and then cross at 800? and sharply at that. As far as looks, I've been wondering about draperies of acoustically transparent material material myself.

[spkrman57]

Love it but curious why such large horns and then cross at 800? and sharply at that.

The Great Plains 1.4" driver will be mounted on a 500hz Edgar salad bowl horn when they arrive(ordered yesterday - Bruce mentioned approx month or two backlog. Also he is trying to retire soon, so I had to pull the plug now on the wood horns before the opportunity is gone!)

I did have a passive crossover using the same with JBL 2226, but the difference in efficiency was too great and I had a bunch of resistors to get the 311-60 horn to behave in a 12' by 16' room.

The Rane is my only electronic crossover, and I keep it around for playing more than being serious. I can live with SS amp on the 15" woofer, but the Rane SS circuit kills most of the beautiful tube sound that I love.

The future Edgarhorn system (3-way horn-loaded) will be passive 1st order crossover with oil caps which are my personal favorites. (My opinion, not fact here!!!)

Ron

[spkrman57]

As far as looks, I've been wondering about draperies of acoustically transparent material material myself.

You can't see it in the pic, but the wall to the right side is a large picture window which I have covered with "rubber-backed" drapes. It promotes less rattle from the large picture window. Also, my windows are over 40 yrs old and it keeps the cold drafts down in wintertime.

If I could afford it, I would have all 4 walls with rubber backed drapes for sound absorbtion. It does help quite a bit!!!

Ron

[Earl K]

Hi Ron,

I have a single RCA 60° horn of similar size ( not in use ).


The Rane is my only electronic crossover, and I keep it around for playing more than being serious. I can live with SS amp on the 15" woofer, but the Rane SS circuit kills most of the beautiful tube sound that I love.

- Are you able to setup a PLLXO for just your the horn circuit ? ( A simple small value capacitor will suffice giving you a single pole circuit . An Lpad just before the 399 can take care of the other level differences .

- If you can manage one , it'll retain the quality sound of your tube amp . Over the last few years I've been amazed at how the "quality" of the musical harmonics ( ie; what comes out of the horn circuit ) will dominate the perceiption of "HiFi" sound . As a result of these experiences , I've lost most of the impetus for swapping out my decidely LoBrow, Behringer Xover & Carver bass amp.

:)

ps; PLLXO = Passive Line Level CrossOver
- an example ; a 25K resistive input load would require an @ capacitor value of just .032 uF , for a 200 hz F3 point ( 400 hz = .016 uF ) .

[Thom]

I wonder why no one has ever (I'll probably find out they have) wound hi impedance voice coils so you could hook tube output stages up direct. Transformers used to be the major expense in a tube amp. I don't know if that is true anymore or not. What ever they said, the reason Mac wouldn't let go of their output transformers was that was what they were famous for. Just curious. I'm not even a tube guy but it seems like some one could come down off the mountain with that one and have an instant following.

[spkrman57]

I wonder why no one has ever (I'll probably find out they have) wound hi impedance voice coils so you could hook tube output stages up direct. Transformers used to be the major expense in a tube amp. I don't know if that is true anymore or not. What ever they said, the reason Mac wouldn't let go of their output transformers was that was what they were famous for. Just curious. I'm not even a tube guy but it seems like some one could come down off the mountain with that one and have an instant following.

He's probably not the first, but the one I see getting the most credit for the OTL (ouput transformer less) tube amp design.

Tube amps cost more than SS amps, but for me and my favorite horn designs the cost is worth it!

Ron

[spkrman57]

Hi Ron,

- Are you able to setup a PLLXO for just your the horn circuit ? ( A simple small value capacitor will suffice giving you a single pole circuit . An Lpad just before the 399 can take care of the other level differences .

- If you can manage one , it'll retain the quality sound of your tube amp . Over the last few years I've been amazed at how the "quality" of the musical harmonics ( ie; what comes out of the horn circuit ) will dominate the perceiption of "HiFi" sound . As a result of these experiences , I've lost most of the impetus for swapping out my decidely LoBrow, Behringer Xover & Carver bass amp.

:)

ps; PLLXO = Passive Line Level CrossOver
- an example ; a 25K resistive input load would require an @ capacitor value of just .032 uF , for a 200 hz F3 point ( 400 hz = .016 uF ) .

Earl,

If I were not going with the proven 1st order on the Edgarhorn system this fall I would definitely try that out. I just put this system together the other day to hold me over until then.

I would love to see pics of your RCA 60 degree horn if you could post here for me!

Ron

[doucanoe]

Not too ugly at all. Looks like something I would dream up.


Send a shot of how you are supporting the drivers off the back of those 311's. Now that might get ugly! :D

RC

[grumpy]

hook tube output stages up direct ?

IIRC, Beveridge and Acoustat (probably others) hooked tube amps up to their panels directly.
HV + public = liability. add limited production and $$$... may explain the lack of mainstream
enthusiasm for the concept.

[Earl K]

I would love to see pics of your RCA 60 degree horn if you could post here for me!

Okay, give me some time to search the hard drives . I believe I have some existing pics that include dimensions / if not I'll take some new ones .

<> :)


EDIT: Okay here they are . These are a few years old now / the room they were shot in is now full of shelving , etc. ( no more large test room ).
- This fairly expensive driver does have a lot of top-end. The horn provides a lot of LF loading ( which is why I was fooling with it at the time ) . Though it all looks very good, this drivers' titanium diaphragm needs something like a coating of aquaplas on its' 3" surface, ( to make it listenable for HiFi purposes ) . The SR industry doesn't seem to agree as they are used pretty widely , as is .

[spkrman57]

I'm really surprised the upper HF response is that good with that long of a horn.

The actual construction of your horns look like they are similiar to the 311-60's which are thicker cast aluminum than such like the 811B/511B horns that ring loudly.

Note to Ron in Minnisota:

399 driver and 311-60 horn is laying on a large foam cushion. If time permits in the future I'll take a pic and post it. Nothing fancy though!

Regards, Ron

[Thom]

I'm aware of "low impedance" tube designs. I'm not aware of voice coils of very high impedance being wound especially for tubes.

[spkrman57]

I'm aware of "low impedance" tube designs. I'm not aware of voice coils of very high impedance being wound especially for tubes.

There would not be a large enough market for a company to design and produce such drivers.

The amount of wire needed to have such a large impedance would require such a large gap that the effective motor control would be reduced and a very inefficient driver would be the result.

There are some very nice output transformers in the market today, and they are not all that costly except for the very esoteric types.

Ron

[dllyons]

Yo Ron, every time I drive past your house I keep thinking about stopping in on ya and seeing what you're up to .... is that alright ?

Hope ya got a brewski laying around if I do :-)

And a question - ever run across the 10" woofers they put in the L36's ? Right now it's escaping me what the model number is, but you may know what it is off hand. One of the new members here has a pair of L36's for sale and I've always wanted a pair, but they don't have the original woofs.

[spkrman57]

Yo Ron, every time I drive past your house I keep thinking about stopping in on ya and seeing what you're up to .... is that alright ?

Hope ya got a brewski laying around if I do :-)

And a question - ever run across the 10" woofers they put in the L36's ? Right now it's escaping me what the model number is, but you may know what it is off hand. One of the new members here has a pair of L36's for sale and I've always wanted a pair, but they don't have the original woofs.

I'll check out the L36 woofer model when some time permits. Currently it's football for the weekend.

Tomorrow I'll probably cry in my beer again when the Browns take the field!

Ron