Jbl Sub1500 15" Subwoofer 4 Ohm

[4313B]

Use the CLIO file from PE too. Make a file for each run of numbers and compare them in BB6P :) I named one REVEL 15 and one 1500 SUB. I put a "~" in front of them so they show up at the top of the list.

[Mr. Widget]

Originally posted by Giskard
Be prepared to play with the low pass filter as the B212 filter is a bit different than usual. If I remember correctly it tends to flatten out the curve a bit and extends response. It is not EQ but rather careful bandwidth limiting. A B212 or 1500 SUB without that filter will appear to have greater energy in the 50 to 80 Hz range and less energy down in the 15 to 40 Hz range.

Use the CLIO file from PE too. Make a file for each run of numbers and compare them in BB6P :) I named one REVEL 15 and one 1500 SUB. I put a "~" in front of them so they show up at the top of the list.

I did the same thing, Revel 15 and JBL 1500 were the names I came up with. The results are fairly similar in all of the alignments I have tried.

As far as EQ and the sealed approach. I haven't tried to measure it yet and measuring bass in a real room is problematic, but to my ears the 1.5 cu ft sealed box has a huge peak at 80 hz and then rolls off causing it to sound a bit "one note". (I am using them with an active crossover set at 80Hz)

Fact of the matter is I have been so happily distracted listening to the other set of these subs and can't be bothered to unplug a bunch of gear, insert an EQ, set up the RTA, etc.

Widget

[4313B]

"As far as EQ and the sealed approach. I haven't tried to measure it yet and measuring bass in a real room is problematic, but to my ears the 1.5 cu ft sealed box has a huge peak at 80 hz and then rolls off causing it to sound a bit "one note". (I am using them with an active crossover set at 80Hz)"

Yeah, that's about what it works out to be like if one uses a typical active filter regardless of it's slope.

"Fact of the matter is I have been so happily distracted listening to the other set of these subs and can't be bothered to unplug a bunch of gear, insert an EQ, set up the RTA, etc."

Whatever gets the job done :) Basically by venting you are simply adding SPL on the bottom end and balancing out the response. There are pros and cons to venting just like there are pros and cons to anything else. You can do that with EQ and small sealed boxes as well. The EQ will tend to counter the natural advantage in transient response a sealed system has over a vented system. The thing I like about the B212 filter is that is starts cutting out pretty low and kind of rolls off fairly slowly, I think something like 10 dB/octave above ~ 70 Hz. This in effect acts like a cut filter in the 50 to 80 Hz region thereby balancing out the response with the 15 to 40 Hz region. The result is transient response remains unaffected as does group delay in addition to a greatly extended VLF response. The cost? Efficiency. Can't have something for nothing. I personally will sacrifice efficiency as I'm not really into destroying my hearing at this point in time.

Anyway, whatever works...

[jim henderson]

I got the CLIO T/S file from PE and imported it into BBP6. Thanks for that tip!

This is off-topic, but is there a CLIO T/S file out there for the 1400ND? :-)

[markH]

I am new to sub building and it's my 1st time post here. Ordered my drivers too. So exciting to find this discussion!

I just went through all the 17 pages of posts. I wonder why nobody mention JBL's own Tik sub using this same driver. It used to be JBL's high end sub too!

http://international.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.asp?ProdId=TI-KSUB/230&SerId=TIK&language=ENGLISH

It is also a small closed design. (I estimate the net volume to be arround 2.2-2.5 cu ft. based on its size). It has it own 600W EQ amp, of course. This seems to be the size many people here designed and built. You guys are experts!

Could you guys give us more EQ advice please?

Mark H.

[4313B]

Here's more:

http://international.jbl.com/home/press_room/news/ENGLISH/TiK%20Master%20Sub.html

Do a search on "JBL Ti-K Sub" in Google and see what comes up.

http://www.dba-pr.com/clients/jbl/releases/overview.htm

[maxwedge]

Now I don't quite get this....I thought the sub1500 was a disscontinued item and now it's a part of a current product from JBL? Or what we've been getting from PE is the buy off from Revel and JBL still makes it, but the speaker isn't for sale to the masses by it's self?:confused:

[4313B]

The Danish Ti K Sub and the Revel Sub are both discontinued. They used the same driver. JBL (Northridge) designed the driver. Revel designed their own sub system using the driver and Denmark designed their own sub system using the driver. Japan also used the driver in a sub system designed and built over there. It's evidently referred to simply as the Japan Sub. JBL (Northridge) had nothing to do with any of the sub system designs, just the driver.

[Mr. Widget]

Thanks for that link. I guess that is the Scandinavian built JBL sub that PE was talking about. Another example of JBL's marketing wisdom. I am actually being serious!

At $250 each plus a bit of DIY labor we will buy these things faster than JBL can make 'em, but at retail we won't touch 'em. The Japanese and Europeans get the goods because they are still willing to pay for quality. Here, if it isn't a vinyl clad POS most of America won't buy it.

Widget

[maxwedge]

Yeah, I get all that. I just didn't know the driver was still in production. Thanks :cool:

Originally posted by Giskard
The Danish Ti K Sub and the Revel Sub are both discontinued. They used the same driver. JBL (Northridge) designed the driver. Revel designed their own sub system using the driver and Denmark designed their own sub system using the driver. Japan also used the driver in a sub system designed and built over there. It's evidently referred to simply as the Japan Sub. JBL (Northridge) had nothing to do with any of the sub system designs, just the driver.

[4313B]

The driver is out of production too.

[johnaec]

Originally posted by Giskard
The driver is out of production too. So what's up with it still being listed on that International JBL site, or is that an obsolete site that is still online? ('Wouldn't be the first...)

[Don McRitchie]

From what I understand, the entire TiK series has been discontinued and JBL is just selling remaining stock until the replacements are available.

While I'm at it, here is a picture of the Japanese version, known as the HB1500.

[Don McRitchie]

And here are the specs if you can read Japanese. The system was marketed as the sub for the S3100, S2600 and 4344MKII. It's interesting that this small box weighed around 160lbs!

[jim henderson]

About $2800 :)

[maxwedge]

I measured the Thiele/Small parameters on my sub1500 using BB6P's program....results attached.

The only questions would be if I did this correctly....I tryed:yes:, and using the program didn't involve much math from me lol!
My signal gen (pc based) is within .01 of a HZ (checked with fluke 88 at spk) and I followed the instructions to the letter.

I guess the only ? marks are if my garage was an ok room to test and hanging the speaker was ok. (see prior post on that).
By the way, it ran at 20Hz/12v for 20 hr in free air before I tested.:eek:

EDIT: Fc was 40Hz. Box was 2.992 cu ft with no fill. Driver front mounted and takes up .25 cu ft.

Take it for what it is and fill in the blanks from other sources.
:dancin:

[4313B]

Cool!

Here's what I have. I measured six of them in a real hurry and the bottom data is one of them. I measured all six before break-in. It is interesting to note that JBL used such a small effective piston diameter for their measurements. I think PE used an effective piston diameter more in line with real life. I have no idea what's up with that.

[4313B]

Hopefully Tim G will be able to post data on the drivers he has in the next few days with his latest SoundEasy setup. I think he is going to use both delta mass and delta compliance methods.

[maxwedge]

I just did what the instructions said and measured center to center of the surround. I guess it varies with the micrometer you use!:screwy: I guessed at .25 cu ft for driver figuring it has a bit bigger back side compaired to a current 2235. Too bad JBL dosn't put out a pdf on this one.:(

[johnaec]

Giskard - what's with the data in the third screen shot? Fs above 29hz and such a small Vas.

John

[Niklas Nord]

HB1500

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20030827/sha1_13.jpg

[johnaec]

Seeing the the Sub 1500 was used in at least three different designs, wouldn't it be logical to assume at least some recone kits would be floating around somewhere? It's hard to believe JBL wouldn't have planned on such an eventuality...(thinking about my future use for live bass guitar). I did finally try one out last night with 800 watts driving one in a 2.4 cu.ft. cabinet ported to 32hz. It sounded great, even without anything for mid-bass. The biggest problem is that I wasn't using a compressor, so it was easy to drive the amp to clipping. It was just a quick feasibility test, and it passed. :)

John

[maxwedge]

Origiinally posted by johnaec
Seeing the the Sub 1500 was used in at least three different designs, wouldn't it be logical to assume at least some recone kits would be floating around somewhere? It's hard to believe JBL wouldn't have planned on such an eventuality...(thinking about my future use for live bass guitar). I did finally try one out last night with 800 watts driving one in a 2.4 cu.ft. cabinet ported to 32hz. It sounded great, even without anything for mid-bass. The biggest problem is that I wasn't using a compressor, so it was easy to drive the amp to clipping. It was just a quick feasibility test, and it passed.

John


Wow! I remember when a good SVT was plenty!:nutz: :rockon2:


Originally posted by johnaec
Giskard - what's with the data in the third screen shot? Fs above 29hz and such a small Vas.
Thats his own spk that he tested the T/S. The 1st 2 are from plublished data. His wasn't broken in yet but mine was. That's why his was 29Hz and mine 24Hz....I hope.:)

Scott

[4313B]

Yes, hopefully I will be able to break the six I have in this weekend. They all measured 28 to 30 Hz right out of the box and I did them in a hurry just to make sure they were all functional. :) To do "real" TS measurements I have to drag them all to another building and I haven't felt like doing that yet :rotfl:

[maxwedge]

Giskard, maybe you could explain what a real room should be like and how the spk is mounted. Would like to know how far off some like I could be when measuring T/S.:)

[4313B]

"Giskard, maybe you could explain what a real room should be like and how the spk is mounted."

Large and open with no boundary reinforcement in close proximity. No air conditioning or heat blowers running, no refrigerators running, no washers and dryers running, no severe line voltage fluctuations. No talking or listening to the radio or snapping ones fingers or tapping ones feet. :rotfl:

The driver should be mounted vertical and clamped in place as far away from any boundary objects as possible. You can mount it horizontal between two rails if the suspension is real tight. Offset shouldn't be too bad then. I think some of the packages like MLSSA or LMS can compensate for offset, both initial and during delta mass.

Vas can be measured up to ten times and then averaged since it is such a mess to measure anyway. The biggest reason I measured the 1500 SUB's I got so quickly was because I was concerned about sagging suspensions. If these things had been sitting in a warehouse on their backs for years and had suffered suspension sag then I wasn't going to sink any money into them. It turns out they all appear to be just fine.

[maxwedge]

Thanks Giskard. I was trying to tap my feet but I couldn't find the beat to that sine wave! Good thing....I would have ruined my test!:rotfl:

[John Y.]

My pair of 1500's arrived today. Boy, these drivers are beautiful!! I have started my C-37 mod. for trial use with one of these. Basic cabinet is 5.44 cu ft before adding any extra panel thickness or bracing. Should be able to end up with a 5 cu. ft. cabinet.

Front panel will be doubled to 1.5 in. by adding a 0.75 in. front piece surrounding the driver rim (and reducing the 2 in. recess by that amount). It aint going to look exactly like a C-37, but close enough. Vent will probably be adapted using the HF hole with a bent duct.

Original finish was natural birch, but it is so beat up from use in my son's band that I am going to just finish it in black after repairs are made. Would love to have some stiletto legs for that real retro look, but probably not a good idea to have a subwoof up on 5 in. legs. Maybe better to use a kick base.

I guess JBL did not supply mounting hardware and PE put in bags of wood screws and sealing putty. Ugh! Anyone have any suggestions for the gaskets? On the 4648A's that I have, JBL used a high quality cardboard ring that seemed to work out well. Do you think that is sufficient for the subwoof? If so, maybe I should talk to the local JBL repair shop and see if they have any. Of course, I could make my own out of automotive type material with an Xacto and a leather punch (a VERY useful tool around the electronics shop).

John Y.

[maxwedge]

Go down to your local hardware store and get some door/window sealing foam tape. Better than cork IMO.

Scott

Originally posted by John Y.
Ugh! Anyone have any suggestions for the gaskets?

[4313B]

Here's a graphic example of what I was referring to earlier with bandwidth limiting using two different filters. The gain is maximum transient response and minimum group delay. The price is reduced efficiency which translates into greater amplifier power requirements and/or increased number of transducers (mutual coupling can help offset this using multiple drivers).

Anyway, whatever gets the job done and whatever sounds best to the user.

[4313B]

Here's a graphic example of the old B212 and the 1500 SUB. It is true the B212 offers slightly lower VLF response but the 1500 SUB has it beat in every other way, and we aren't talking "just barely", we are talking "thorough beating". Notice how the old B212 is displacement limited. As I have stated before, a single B212 is entirely inadequate to handle todays program material even at moderate listening levels. MJC can explain that from first hand experience.

What I think is remarkable is JBL had a subwoofer design dating so far back that really was pretty nifty for it's time. It could reproduce turntable rumble like nothing else on the market :rotfl: In defense of this 27 year old design, used in pairs or quads the old B212's (with newer amplification) aren't all that bad even today for moderate playback. Anyway, this 1500 SUB really is the driver I've been looking for to replace the old 121A/121H. The ability to pick up such a driver for $250 is utterly absurd. :p

Note - I'm using the PE TS parameters for the 1500 SUB in these as opposed to the JBL MLSSA TS parameters.

[MJC]

Gisard, the 1500 is the sub driver I've been looking for since I upped my L212s from 2 to 5. you show it in a 4cuft box, but like you said earlier, you would rather use a 2.6cuft box to save space. And having seen the pics that Niklas showed of the hb1500 with its reclined baffle, I think I'm going to go that route.
So what filter should be used in a box about 2.6cuft? And do you have a schematic for it?
I still don't know what amp I'll be using, being that the PE 540w plate amp is out of stock and I haven't seen any Crown k2s on ebay.

[4313B]

Hi MJC,

"having seen the pics that Niklas showed of the hb1500 with its reclined baffle, I think I'm going to go that route."

Notice they have that ported. You might want to try and find the specs (physical volume, filling, ports/ducts) on that sub system.

"you said earlier, you would rather use a 2.6cuft box to save space"

I'm actually leaning towards a Citation 7.4 - sized enclosure for my 1500 SUB drivers.

HB1500 Owner's Manual (http://www.harman-japan.co.jp/support/manual/HB1500.pdf)

Link to user manuals forum members might find desireable (http://www.harman-japan.co.jp/support/manual/index.htm)

[MJC]

Hi Gisard, actually I wasn't thinking of doing a port enclosure. But a sloped baffle should assure that there would not be any standing waves. Or so I would think.
I might have to get my son's girl friend over here to decifer Japanese.

[MJC]

Well, my 2 sub1500s showed up today, as others of you that have gotten them know, they are sweet and heavy. But I've only gotten as far as cutting out the parts for the boxes.
I spent the weekend building 2 mirror imaged L212 boxes. Now guys, I've been listening to music thru L212s for over 25 years. But in the mirror imaged state, listening to 2 channel music well.......The sound stage is superb. Now I've just have to find some amps for the 1500 and build or buy the other electronics and I'm done.

[Mr. Widget]

Originally posted by MJC
Now I've just have to find some amps for the 1500 and build or buy the other electronics and I'm done.

You'll never be "done".:)

[MJC]

Originally posted by Mr. Widget
You'll never be "done".:)


How true!cool:
But it only took 25 years to move up to mirror imaged speakers-at Gisard's suggestion, about a year or so ago.:

[Frode]

Originally posted by Giskard
Hi MJC,


I'm actually leaning towards a Citation 7.4 - sized enclosure for my 1500 SUB drivers.



I can't find any info on this one, what's the size?

Frode

[Frode]

Originally posted by Giskard


3.4 cubic feet gross physical. Net effective can be adjusted with fiberglass fill.

Thanks! I've designed a box that is 2.6 cu.ft without driver/bracing. I think I'll stick with this.

Frode

[MJC]

Originally posted by Giskard
It often takes months of pondering for me to get around to cutting wood. :p

I know the feeling, I don't have a problem cutting wood. But I've been pondering for months, actually for about 2 years, what pre/pro I'm going to buy to upgrade my system.
The main L212s, now that they're mirrored, seem to produce a wall of sound like the Paragon. The speakers seem to disappear. Being that Greg's big design after the 212s, the 250s, were mirrored makes me wonder if marketing got their ugly say into how that L212s should be.
I always thought that the L212 was ahead of its time. And in a HT that had a 100" screen the front 3 speakers could be hung on the wall behind the screen. And all the others could also be mounted on the walls. Although I don't know if having the mains on the wall would be better or worse as far as listening to music. I've got the mains 3' away from the front wall and 4' from the side walls. The side channels are on the wall though, upside down with the 066 just above the top of the seat backs.

[maxwedge]

Originally posted by Giskard
Fortunately someone had the fortitude to force offset and mirrored systems such as the 4345 and 250Ti through the process I personally have no problem with building systems offset and mirrored. They sound better and they look just fine to me.
Why do offset drivers sound better? I've always thought it's better to line them up but I guess I thought wrong. :(

[MJC]

Originally posted by maxwedge
Why do offset drivers sound better? I've always thought it's better to line them up but I guess I thought wrong. :(

The drivers are lined up vertically. But their centerline is 2 " offset from the center of the baffle. Thus with the 16" wide baffle the "inside edges" are 6" from the center of the drivers and the outside is 10" from the center of the drivers.
So the part of the recording that is common to both channels, usually the singer's voice, rolls off the baffle to form a "center channel", that is seamless with the L/R channels, while still preserving the separation of all the instruments. And the result is instead of the L212s sounding like two separate speakers, it gives a wall of sound, with no holes, simular to the Paragon, which has the curved front that sprays the sound around. Which is what you hear when listening to a live concert.
I wish I could uplink the pics of the new speakers, but at this time I'm having problems with this computer. All of a sudden it won't reconize the digital camera, which has only been connected for 2 years!
I must be a stange duck, as far as speakers. I always like the L65s, but bought the L55s in '73 due to cost. But when I first heard the L1212s in '78, I thought "I've got to get those." So when the money showed itself in Jan. '79 the L1212s appeared in my living room. And I've never been sorry about spending that $1500 since, which was alot more money then than it is now.

[maxwedge]

Originally posted by MJC
And I've never been sorry about spending that $1500 since, which was alot more money then than it is now.
I'll say! Probably double! I guess that is why I've always bought componets and build my own.

Ok I think I got this mirror tech now....correct me if I'm wrong.
It's not really the fact that the mid driver is off center in relationship to the bass spk but more to do with the driver location on the baffel....it's closer to the inside edge of the baffel.

In the case of the Ti250 the spk's are all alined verticaly, on center, but it's the slopeing side edge of the cabinet that accomplishes the same effect. Correct?

[Mr. Widget]

Originally posted by MJC
And the result is instead of the L212s sounding like two separate speakers, it gives a wall of sound, with no holes, simular to the Paragon, which has the curved front that sprays the sound around. Which is what you hear when listening to a live concert.

Sounds like the old BOSE 901 line. Personally I don't like that smeared sound. If the system is set up properly you should only hear instruments and voices coming from the locations in space the engineer put them. Good speakers disappear and allow this to happen. I have a real problem with wide baffles and direct radiators. (with horns it is much less of a problem, but then they have other problems) I would suggest you put some highly absorbent material on both sides of the drivers on the front baffle. 1" fiberglass would work well but you may not want it exposed in your listening room, but just as an experiment if you put some fiberglass or Sonex on the baffle I think you would hear a further improvement.


Originally posted by maxwedge

In the case of the Ti250 the spk's are all alined verticaly, on center, but it's the slopeing side edge of the cabinet that accomplishes the same effect. Correct?

Yes.

Widget

[MJC]

Originally posted by Mr. Widget
Sounds like the old BOSE 901 line. Personally I don't like that smeared sound. If the system is set up properly you should only hear instruments and voices coming from the locations in space the engineer put them. Good speakers disappear and allow this to happen.Widget

I think you mis-read what I was saying. With the center of the drivers aligned with the center of the baffle, I could close my eyes and know right where the speakers were. With the drivers offset 2" from the center of the baffle the speakers disappear. The instruments are coming right from where they should. BUT the sound stage is full, it sounds as it would if you were in the Theater for The Performing Arts in Las Vegas, a place where I saw and heard many concerts in the '70's & 80's. And that theater was loaded with 125 Pro JBLs.
Don't EVER refer to Bose again on this JBL form! I wouldn't put Bose in my toilet!:eek:

[DavidF]

Originally posted by maxwedge
Why do offset drivers sound better? I've always thought it's better to line them up but I guess I thought wrong. :(

Offset of the drivers helps avoid equal path-lengths to the edges of baffle. As the sound waves hit the edges or corners, there is a tendency to bounce, or re-radiate the wave off of the edges and side panels of the enclosure. This can muck up the directional perspective and create peaks or nulls that effect the tonal balance, especially in the higher frequencies. The idea is to change the path length along the baffle so that none of the four paths to the baffle edge (box shape assumed) are equal and therefore avoid a compounding effect in a narrow range of frequencies or phase. As mentioned, other methods can be used to control or mitigate the diffraction problem. No doubt the L212’s wide baffle with a narrow side panels were purposely determined with radiation and diffraction issues in mind. There was no other reason to have the main systems so large for the drivers installed (other than they look impressive).

David F

[Mr. Widget]

Originally posted by MJC
I think you mis-read what I was saying. With the center of the drivers aligned with the center of the baffle, I could close my eyes and know right where the speakers were. With the drivers offset 2" from the center of the baffle the speakers disappear....I wouldn't put Bose in my toilet!...


I guess I did. I still suggest you try treating those baffles as even more magic is likely to occur.:)

Widget


:smthsail: Bose:smthsail: Not even for the Tidy Bowl man!

[MJC]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr. Widget
[B]I guess I did. I still suggest you try treating those baffles as even more magic is likely to occur.:)

Widget


The sub-enclosures for the 112a and LE5-9 are stuffed to the max with insulation. That is how the original pair are also, so the drivers are totally encased with stuffing.

But back to the topic of this thread, the 1500 can be put into as small as1.5cuft and a box at 4.0cuft will get to what the old B212 was and then some. I don't have BB pro, but if my numbers are right with the info I have I need to add a filter(Zobel Network) with a 4~5 ohm resistor and a 30uF cap. I was thinking of using the 540w plate amp, but some were saying the 1000w plate amp. Thats only 200w over the rated capacity of the 1500. And those amps also have EQ if I wanted to use it.

[Mr. Widget]

I was talking about covering the front surface, the side you see and listen to, of the baffle with Sonex or fiberglass to make the large baffle acoustically disappear. I would think you could still get the grill over it.

For the Sub, if you are going to use them for HT, the bigger amp would be my choice. I wonder about those plate amps though... have you heard them? Will they take them back if you aren't satisfied?

Widget

[MJC]

Originally posted by Mr. Widget
I was talking about covering the front surface, the side you see and listen to, of the baffle with Sonex or fiberglass to make the large baffle acoustically disappear. I would think you could still get the grill over it.

For the Sub, if you are going to use them for HT, the bigger amp would be my choice. I wonder about those plate amps though... have you heard them? Will they take them back if you aren't satisfied?

Widget

How things have changed over the decades. all speakers had wide baffles and now with HT most towers have smaller, multiple LF drivers set in baffles just barely wide enough.
I haven't built any grills yet for the new L212 towers. I've finished them the way I have always thought the L212s should have been done. I've veneered all the exposed surfaces instead of black paint.
If JBL had contructed the cabinets as I have, square cut all pieces instead of miter cuts, then they could have made the baffles with offset drivers and then there would be no inside or outside to the baffles. So one baffle would work for both L/R. And then the veneer would cover the joints. And considering that the L212s listed @ $2000 in '77 the cabinets should have been veneered to match the bases.
I've never heard those PE plate amps, but they claim that they're class AB output. I have bought speakers from PE and have sent them back. PE does have the 1000w amp in stock, but they're out of the 540w amp until mid April.

[4313B]

Just an F.Y.I.

The recone kit for the 1500 SUB / REVEL 15 / 1500HB transducer is C4RSUB1500.

[sebackman]

Hello all,

Just as a matter of notice, the first 4 Sub1500 just hit Europe today.

If you open your window you can hear them being broken in at 20v@16Hz....... :D

The cabinets should be here from the carpenter on Sunday. I will post some more info then

Have a good weekend

//RoB

[maxwedge]

20v!:eek: Isn't that a lot?
Good to know there's a recone kit.:)

[Frode]

Originally posted by sebackman
Hello all,

Just as a matter of notice, the first 4 Sub1500 just hit Europe today.

If you open your window you can hear them being broken in at 20v@16Hz....... :D

The cabinets should be here from the carpenter on Sunday. I will post some more info then

Have a good weekend

//RoB

I guess I beat you, I got mine last Monday. But I don't have any cabinets yet, so you'll beat me in the end! Looking forward to your report.

Frode

[sebackman]

Hello all


maxwedge

"20v! Isn't that a lot? "

Your right, when I checked again I had turned it down to about 14v. That seems to be about right. They are rather "stiff" out of the box.

I'll post more info tomorrow

//RoB

[Niklas Nord]

I have to wait another 3 weeks until I get my
fair amount of drivers :D

"My fair amount" :eek:

[sebackman]

Originally posted by Giskard
Just an F.Y.I.

The recone kit for the 1500 SUB / REVEL 15 / 1500HB transducer is C4RSUB1500.

Where do I find that cone kit and is there an MSRP for it? I searched the usual JBL sites, but no luck.

Thanks
RoB

[4313B]

Any Authorized JBL Service Center should be able to repair the transducer.

[Niklas Nord]

Giskard,
did you measure up those drivers, is it possible to have
some new thiel/small parameters soon?

[Niklas Nord]

Hi

I would like to build a box housing 2 x SUB1500, and tune
this to something like 20hz.

The box seems to be some 240Liters for two drivers.

But, it seems to be a problem with noise from the port
in the ismulations, to many meters/sek on the duct.

What do you all think about putting 2 drivers in a box
of some 240 liters, can i tune this so it doesent make
air movement noises?

Thesub are going to be corner placed, so room gain
would be a big part, maybe there could be a higher
tuning like 26hz

[mike_e]

Hi all!
what a huge thread!


But, it seems to be a problem with noise from the port

increase area. Length with correspondingly increase for same tuning.

i wouldnt worry about 1hz's but i would prefer too much bass than too little

Heres my jbl2226 in 33hz tuned 175L,pretending it can do some low freqs :-) the response is nice and overdamped could use some EQ. runs of 20w for now,240w later on. :-)


http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quadroph/f16/jbl4.jpg

my little 8" on 40hz horn works quite nice too http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quadroph/bs/horn/pic2.JPG

Im buying a lab12 as soon as funds permit too for my 33hz car/house basshorn pleasure :p

[frez]

Hi there NN!

Try increasing the port area or perhaps try multiple ports if one becomes to long with the desired port area. If you use a single port, the port length will be 1.4 times the length of two ports with the same total port area. It could also be interresting for you to incorporate a slot-type port. It requires a little more thinking on your part when you design the box and is not easily re-tuned, but will give you the kind of area you need to get rid of those nasty port noises.

Just my 2C

/Frez

PS: Have also ordered a SUB1500 driver. I'll be using mine in a 70L closed box with Linkwitz EQ.

[Niklas Nord]

Hello Frez ! :p

Yes, i tend to use two sub1500 in ONE box couse that makes
it better with the port and so on.. Easier to tune it seems..

Placing a sub in the corner would be nice couse the room gain
would participate.

[frez]

Just a small warning:

Don't count on putting the sub in a corner if you havn't tried it before in the room you intend to use. I have built many subwoofers during the years and none of them worked well in any corner of any room I've used. It might be possible to use multiple subs put in the corners, but I've never tried that. The sound becomes muddy/boomy and not as tight as if you place it 1/3 roomlength from the side wall. I'm sure there are many people that have other opinions about this. I found that the best way, for me at least, to figure out the placement is to put the woofer in the listening spot and crawl around the floor listening until you find the spot where it sounds the best.

But anyway, I'm sure you already knew that as you are as fond as I am when i comes to deep,clean undistorted bass! :D

/Frez

[Chas]

increase area. Length with correspondingly increase for same tuning.

Wouldn't the you shorten length if you increased the diameter?
:confused:
C.

[frez]

If you were to increase the area of a port, the port length would also have to increase to keep the same tuning frequency.

/Frez

Perhaps I was a bit unclear :) Us Swedes you know:D :D :D

[4313B]

Here's what I have finally come up with. Kind of a reiteration but perhaps helpful anyway.

2nd order sealed system for maximum VLF extension, maximum transient response and minimum group delay with the bonus of still being able to fit in a small package. 1.5 cubic foot to 4.0 cubic foot volume with EQ boost in the VLF and/or EQ cut in the LF to balance response (2.5 to 3.5 cubic feet with generous fiberglass fill appears to yield excellent results). VLF response easily extends into the 10 to 20 Hz range and is augmented with typical room gain. Recommended for low and medium efficiency satellite systems when one or two subs are to be used. Additional subs can be employed to reduce intermodulation distortion and increase efficiency, especially when placed in close proximity to each other. VLF response is excellent.

4th order vented system for medium to high efficiency satellite systems where "maximum" VLF extension isn't required. 5.0 cubic foot volume tuned in the 20 to 25 Hz range. Fundamental EQ not required. Superior to old 6th order vented 2235H and 2245H based systems with respect to transient response, efficiency, power handling, distortion and group delay while maintaining the same basic bandwidth and not requiring the +6 dB EQ boost. Solid VLF response into the 20 to 30 Hz range. I think the only thing "better" is a JBL 4645C or JBL Synthesis One and they are significantly larger and more expensive, even when done D.I.Y.

Thanks to Mr. Widget for trying the D.I.Y. vented solution and for pressing me to also give it a try. :thmbsup: Off the top of my head, the only situation I can think of where I would bother going smaller than 5.0 cubic feet for a vented solution is perhaps to replace a 2235H in a B380 (no need to use a BX63 or BX63A with the 1500 SUB). While these drivers are around I can't think of any reason to go 6th order vented with 2235H's or 2245H's :)

[jcdahl]

Is there a design using Passive Radiators?

I have two SUB 1500s and 4 PR 15 Passive radiators. I was thing about using two PR15s in each SUB 1500 Box.

Trying to keep under 6 cubic ft each.

JCD

[mikebake]

Originally posted by jcdahl
Is there a design using Passive Radiators?

I have two SUB 1500s and 4 PR 15 Passive radiators. I was thing about using two PR15s in each SUB 1500 Box.

Trying to keep under 6 cubic ft each.

JCD

Seems like you'd stand more to lose than to gain. I'm no fan of PR's, and I don't see the necessity here.

[4313B]

Several people have asked about the old B212 filter. Here is a quick mock-up of the passive filter made active. Feel free to embellish as desired.

Remember that for any subwoofer simulations it is a very good idea to incorporate in the response of any filters.

[4313B]

IAD files for BB6P. They are just quick and dirty filter responses I cranked out for use with BB6P. They might be useful to someone.

[frez]

Thnx Giskard!

That gives me even more confidence that my design with a 70-80L (2.47-2.8 cu-ft) box and Linkwitz EQ will work just perfect for me. :D

/Frez

[Niklas Nord]

NN has found that 65 - 75 liters would be great! :D

[James Nobel]

Has anyone actually run the numbers on the Sub1500s suitability for downfiring orientation? Someone in a previous post thought the cone might be a bit too heavy. Do any of you tech heavy senior members know for sure?

[4313B]

Originally posted by James Nobel
Has anyone actually run the numbers on the Sub1500s suitability for downfiring orientation? Someone in a previous post thought the cone might be a bit too heavy. Do any of you tech heavy senior members know for sure? Yes, it's too heavy.

[Timber_MG]

Just to see the potential of these drive units (esp. that strong motor) when used differently.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31399

Martin

[Tom Loizeaux]

Well I ordered a JBL 1500 sub today!
After my experiences with my little JBL PB-12 and all the discussion here, I decided to give it a try.
Now I have to find a decent plate amp and come up with a good cabinet design.

I use my PB-12 behind louvered doors and run my 4312s full range. I set the roll-off at about 50Hz on the sub and just let a taste of it fill up the bottom.

My 4343s sound very nice, but I suspect that I would like a tiny bit of help in the very lowest end. I don't think I want to cross over the sub to the 4343s, so I'm thinking I'll just add the sub's bottom to the full range 4343s and set the sub's output to taste. So, which plate amp will let me roll the sub out at the frequency the 4343s drop off (40Hz?)- and which size cabinet will help the 1500 work here? Should I go for sealed or ported? If ported, what size cabinet and port size would suit this application?
I suspect that I'll need very little out of this sub, and I don't want to double up the low end coming from the 4343s.

Suggestions?

Thanks,

Tom

[dougzilla]

Tom,

Like you, I don't need a whole lot of SPL out of the sub at present--I'm testing one using an aprox 2 cu ft sealed cab lent to me by Widget (THANKS AGAIN!) and I doubt that I am running more than 20W RMS through it when anyone but me is in the room. It is filling in the bottom one and a half octaves (below 60 HZ) for the (modified) 4311's in my family/media room. I let the 4311's roll off naturally and there is no acoustic argument between them and the sub that I can detect.

I bought a new 250W plate amp from Parts Express when I got the sub and am quite pleased with it so far. It's 1) CHEAP, 2) has adjustable crossover, 3) reasonable distortion specs (inaudible at my listening levels, really) and 4) has an auto-on feature. It also has adjustable phase (0-180) but I can't hear the effect at these frequencies, so I leave it set to 0.

My 2 cents/watts worth.

[pangea]

Originally posted by dougzilla
Tom,

Like you, I don't need a whole lot of SPL out of the sub at present--I'm testing one using an aprox 2 cu ft sealed cab lent to me by Widget (THANKS AGAIN!) and I doubt that I am running more than 20W RMS through it when anyone but me is in the room. It is filling in the bottom one and a half octaves (below 60 HZ) for the (modified) 4311's in my family/media room. I let the 4311's roll off naturally and there is no acoustic argument between them and the sub that I can detect.

I bought a new 250W plate amp from Parts Express when I got the sub and am quite pleased with it so far. It's 1) CHEAP, 2) has adjustable crossover, 3) reasonable distortion specs (inaudible at my listening levels, really) and 4) has an auto-on feature. It also has adjustable phase (0-180) but I can't hear the effect at these frequencies, so I leave it set to 0.

My 2 cents/watts worth.

Hi dougzilla!

Have you tried turning up the x-over to the highest position and then try to shift the phase swith and see if one of the positions makes a hole?

What make is the plate amp?
Have you seen the new Hypex class D, DIY amps?

BR
Roland

[JuniorJBL]

Originally posted by Tom Loizeaux


My 4343s sound very nice, but I suspect that I would like a tiny bit of help in the very lowest end.

Suggestions?

Thanks,

Tom

Hi Tom

I also run my L250's full range and have the sub1500's take over from about 60Hz -3db then boosted at about 22Hz +6db. This gives the 250's some INCREDIBLE VLF!!

I did have to cut at 60hz because the 250's have great response there. I also tried a lower crossover point but this seemed to have a small hole when crossed over lower than about 55hz.
I suspect this has to do with the natural roll off of the le14 and using a 24db per octave crossover.

When I switch the crossover in and out all I can hear is exstention in the VLF range.
I am very happy with these drivers.
Good luck!!
Shane:dancin:

[dougzilla]

Pangea,
The plate amp is PE's OEM brand, can be found here:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-794

Good Idea on the high cutoff to check for phase problems. I'll try it when I get home (I'm over in Bangkok at the moment).

Like I say, main virtue of the amp is woof for the $.

[Niklas Nord]

Also I got some of these today, 16 of them will be mine !


http://pal.pp.se/~nord/jblsub1500/pic_192.jpg

http://pal.pp.se/~nord/jblsub1500/pic_199.jpg

[4313B]

Originally posted by Niklas Nord
16 of them will be mine !Just out of curiosity, what does one actually do with 16 of them?

[pangea]

Originally posted by Giskard
Just out of curiosity, what does one actually do with 16 of them?

Sell and try to make a quick buck or two, I would imagine. :biting:

BR
Roland

[4313B]

Originally posted by pangea
Sell and try to make a quick buck or two, I would imagine. :biting:

BR
Roland Ah! I see! :yes:

I'm one of those stupid jackasses who bought 8 of them to get a little discount and then passed that discount onto other forum members. :rolleyes: I guess I fail basic Capitalism 101?

[pangea]

Originally posted by Giskard
Ah! I see! :yes:

I'm one of those stupid jackasses who bought 8 of them to get a little discount and then passed that discount onto other forum members. :rolleyes: I guess I fail basic Capitalism 101?

Hey Giscard, I'm one of those myself. The last ten years or so I too have failed miserably on those mony making scheemes, so count me in will ya.

Two jackasses are always better than one anyway!:D

BR
Roland

[JuniorJBL]

Originally posted by Giskard
Just out of curiosity, what does one actually do with 16 of them?

Put them in a Great Big box on a semi trailer and do building demolition!

Also you could drive around with them and put all these little kids with thier cars to shame!
:D

[4313B]

Originally posted by JuniorJBL
Put them in a Great Big box on a semi trailer and do building demolition!

Also you could drive around with them and put all these little kids with thier cars to shame!
:D Isn't that the truth!

Crush their little woofer cones and drive them before you, hearing the lamentations of their women above the din!

[johnaec]

Originally posted by Giskard
Crush their little woofer cones and drive them before you, hearing the lamentations of their women above the din! I actually picked up a "little woofer cone" to use as a sub in a car, (and just to play with). :D It's a 10" JBL W10GTI - 'uses differential drive (like the Vertec series), and has a greater Xmax spec than the Sub1500! It should be fun...

http://mark8.org/users/johnaec/JBLW10GTIE3.jpg

http://mark8.org/users/johnaec/JBLW10GTIE1.jpg

John

[JuniorJBL]

Originally posted by Giskard
Isn't that the truth!

Crush their little woofer cones and drive them before you, hearing the lamentations of their women above the din!

HA! HA! HA!:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :yes:

[JuniorJBL]

Originally posted by johnaec
and has a greater Xmax spec than the Sub1500!

John
This usually means more distortion:confused: Am I correct?:hmm:

[4313B]

Originally posted by johnaec
I actually picked up a "little woofer cone" to use as a sub in a car, (and just to play with). :D It's a 10" JBL W10GTI - 'uses differential drive (like the Vertec series), and has a greater Xmax spec than the Sub1500!Well, I guess you should pick up 16 of them and crush anyone who has 16 1500 SUB drivers! :p

[johnaec]

Originally posted by JuniorJBL
This usually means more distortion:confused: Am I correct?:hmm: Hey, it's only a 10" speaker - I'm not expecting miracles... :rolleyes: But I can fit it in the trunk easy enough, and I trust JBL more than most other brands when it comes to getting the highest output with the lowest distortion for any given speaker size. I'll probably run it with one of JBL's 600 watt car audio amps...sometime...

John

[johnaec]

Originally posted by Giskard
Well, I guess you should pick up 16 of them and crush anyone who has 16 1500 SUB drivers! :p Nah - 'bad karma! I've still got three Sub1500s myself... :wave:

John

[Niklas Nord]

I will use them all for myself !

[pangea]

Originally posted by Niklas Nord
I will use them all for myself !

Hi Niklas!

In that case I truly apologize, for thinking you were going to make a buck or two.

BR
Roland

[JuniorJBL]

Originally posted by pangea
Hi Niklas!

In that case I truly apologize, for thinking you were going to make a buck or two.

BR
Roland

:banana: :banana: :dancin: :rockon2:
If that is the case then you should only need a few watts to get very high output!
Shane:D

[4313B]

Originally posted by Niklas Nord
I will use them all for myself ! Make sure you wire them all in parallel. ;)

[boputnam]

Originally posted by Giskard
Just out of curiosity, what does one actually do with 16 of them? Widget...? This one's for you... :rotfl:

[dieterj]

Originally posted by Niklas Nord
I will use them all for myself !
You must've a very big listening Room!:D

[Niklas Nord]

Oh yes!
They was so cheap, offcourse i had to buy some so i can me
a complete maniac ! :D

16 of them
will be 4 enclosures

to battle with room acoustics

deal with distorsion in extreme :p

more sensitivity

Giskard
16of them i paralell :p whell i dont know about that.
TWO in paralell works.
Try NOT to wire in serial.

A well built ampfilter to use, maybe the Rotel RB 1095

There is some seriously extreme systems on the market with
several drivers.

martinlogan statemenet subtowers.
mcintosh
wisdom audio
genesis
infinity

Why dont make it in DIY !

[4313B]

Originally posted by Niklas Nord
Giskard
16of them i paralell :p whell i dont know about that.
Ok, ok, I'm glad you won't actually try it. I suggested it banking on the fact that you knew better and I guess you do :D

[Niklas Nord]

"know better"

are you sure?

:D :rolleyes: :p

[10 Watt Street]

Parts Express has the SUB1500 listed as the Deal of the Day until 5pm 5/7/04 which includes Free Shipping. Since the driver weighs 40 lbs this adds some incentive.

[Niklas Nord]

GISKARD

what will you do with your drivers? Selaed or what?

[4313B]

Hi Niklas,

I'm currently running a pair sealed in 4.0 cubic foot test boxes for use with my various medium efficiency JBL systems. I've also had them in 2.5 cubic foot sealed test boxes and 5.0 cubic foot sealed and vented test boxes. I would like the ability to run them vented or sealed depending on application. I'm leaning towards a 3.4 cubic footer that has the option for both. It's a bit larger, and tuned a bit lower, than the stock vented HB1500 and is still sufficiently large when sealed to alleviate the need for radical EQ.

[jim henderson]

They were out of stock yesterday.

[Niklas Nord]

ideal room would give

floor, 6db
wall, 6db
wall, 6db

= 18db room gain @ 20hz

IDEAL room ..

if placed in corner

[jcdahl]

Well, I have built my Sub-1500 boxes and are almost ready to try them out.

The inside dimensions are 23" H x 17" W x 15" D
total internal volume (allowing for the cone and bracing) is 3.04 cubic ft.
Two questions:

1) How much fill should be used inside each sealed enclosure (I have the Dacron wool from PE called Acoustastuff)?

2) I read about breaking them in. What is the best procedure to properly break them in?

I am driving them with a Mackie M2600 at 800W per channel. crossing over at 90HZ with a 24db per octave filter in the Amplifier.

Thanks
JCD

[goskers]

HI all,

Would it be alright to run the 1500 in a 2.6 ft sealed enclosure off of a 350W plate amp?

I would like to use a QSC amp but am not sure how to get the pro audio stuff to run off home audio gear. I am also not sure how to get the eq that I need with pro stuff.

How limited would I be doing these off of plate amps?

Could someone point me to where I could find how to use pro gear with home stuff?

Thanks for the help.

[jcdahl]

[QUOTE][i]Could someone point me to where I could find how to use pro gear with home stuff?

[QUOTE]


What kind of Pro gear are you trying to use?

I use Rane crossovers and Pro Amplifiers with my systems.. Works great..

JCD

[pangea]

Originally posted by goskers
HI all,

Would it be alright to run the 1500 in a 2.6 ft sealed enclosure off of a 350W plate amp?

I would like to use a QSC amp but am not sure how to get the pro audio stuff to run off home audio gear. I am also not sure how to get the eq that I need with pro stuff.

How limited would I be doing these off of plate amps?

Could someone point me to where I could find how to use pro gear with home stuff?

Thanks for the help.


Hi goskers!

Mixing pro and home gear, MAY cause some problems with hum and noice.

Some pro gear has got a switch in the back for ground lift, to prevent the ground to find a new path.

I'm not an expert in this area, but from what I have read, there are a few things I think I'm able to pass on.

There are some cheap but effective filters containing a Varistor and a few other things, which separates the gear from each other. these filters go in the outlet. Then you could put a transformer (often quite hefty and pricey ones) with the same Voltage on the primary and secondary.

Then there is also the possibility to put a small filter on the signal line to separate them. This is also sometimes necessary when you connect the sound board on your PC to the HiFi gear. If you don't do this when there is some noice and hum, it may cost you PLENTY in damaged computer as well as amps.

BR
Roland

[Mr. Widget]

I like many here on this forum have been mixing consumer (unbalanced) with pro (balanced) gear for years. You absolutely do increase your chance on increasing hum and noise, but there is little risk of actual damage.

Go to Rane's web site and snoop around or do searches on this forum. There are plenty of explanations of the better ways to combine balanced and unbalanced gear. Using the term pro and consumer is quickly becoming obsolete as a lot of the better home gear is now becoming balanced.

goskers,

I would recommend the QSC approach over the plate amp approach. I use a QSC built JBL amp for my Sub 1500s and they rock!


Widget

[goskers]

Thanks for the reply all.

Besides the ground hum issue aren't there voltage differences between pro and consumer gear? Will this be an issue?

Are there any amps that have eq filters inside already? The benefit of a plate amp to me is that all the eq that I need is already there. I would be looking for a LP cut of 50Hz with a boost of about 6db at 30 or 25Hz.

Thanks again guys,

goskers

[maxwedge]

I was running my 2 sub1500's with a Hafler P225 in mono and it was maybe putting out about 350 watts max. Just wasn't enough so I picked up a QSC rmx-2450 and I'm so happy with this amp it's not even funny!:thmbsup: It's rated at 1500 watts into 8 ohms (mono). I run the 2 sub1500's in series for 8 ohms.:)
These sub1500's need a lot of power but sound nice.

[MJC]

Originally posted by Mr. Widget
I like many here on this forum have been mixing consumer (unbalanced) with pro (balanced) gear for years. You absolutely do increase your chance on increasing hum and noise, but there is little risk of actual damage.

Widget
I've been running my pair of 1500s with a K2 and have no problems when the K2 is connected to the Marantz sub-out.
But when I add the B212 filter I built between the Marantz sub-out and the K2 I only get hum and no sound. So I've got something wrong with the filter. I've checked it with an ohm meter and have connectivity from input to output, but maybe its some kind of ground situation.

[sfogg]

Just a simple question... did everyone use the mounting screws PE included with the Sub1500s? I finally was putting together my subs last night (2 woofers in each sealed cabinet about 6'^3) and the heads of them looked almost like they were fitting through the holes in the Sub1500 frames. Anyone else notice that?

I'm running out a lunch to see if I can pick up new screws or maybe small washers for these.

Thanks,

Shawn

[johnaec]

I'd never use plain wood screws for mounting speakers, except for maybe very light HF drivers. I suggest mounting T-nuts in the back panel of the baffle board, (special small-head versions are available so you don't drop over the edge of the cutout), and then I'd recommend allen head machine screws into these. This way you'll never be pulling the screws out from weight, and allen head is a better option than philips because no down-force is required to screw them in, lessening the possibility of a screw driver sliding out and going through the speaker.

I was really surprised to see the screws that came with the Sub1500's...I'd never use those!

John

[sfogg]

"Mike and I didn't get any screws in the eight 1500SUB's we purchased! "

I didn't realize they were in the packages either and sort of stumbled across them. Also had a mortite like gasket material to seal the woofers to the cabinets and two useless solder terminals.

"We use MA15 kits on JBL 12's, 15's and 18's."

Where can that be ordered from and how quickly can I get them? I have to have these up and running by the weekend. Hopefully I can find something suitable locally.

Thanks,

Shawn

[John Y.]

Originally posted by Mr. Widget

I would recommend the QSC approach over the plate amp approach. I use a QSC built JBL amp for my Sub 1500s and they rock!

Widget

Mr. Widget,

Specifically, which JBL amp are you referring to?

John Y.

[Zilch]

Originally posted by sfogg
the heads of them looked almost like they were fitting through the holes in the Sub1500 frames. Anyone else notice that?

The frames are counterbored at the screw locations to accept Fillister head screws, which are smaller in diameter than conventional pan heads, the same diameter as the socket head cap screws mentioned by johnaec, above. When completely seated, they are flush with the face, or slightly recessed. They provide precision alignment of the frame, assuming the mounting holes in the baffle are also precise.

#10-32 Phillips Pan = .373" dia., .133" high
#10-32 Fillister Head = .313" dia. .180" high
#10-32 Socket Head = .312" dia., .190" high

If you're bolting through the frame, use tee nuts behind, as JBL conventionally does. The two or three-prong ones don't interfere with the speaker cutout. See the McMaster-Carr hardware catalog, or equivalent. Your local hardware store most likely carries them.

MA15 was a set of 4 cast clamps, screws, and gasket to front mount large diameter woofers by the frame edge in lieu of thru-bolting. The clamps are still available from JBL, but not the kit, I don't believe. The clamps occasionally show up on eBay, the kits, rarely. Cheap imitations are available through car audio outlets. It's the "premium" mounting method. Frankly, I think thru-bolting is more secure....

No hardware came with my Sub1500's. Sounds like it was an ill-conceived afterthought at PE. Your screws and washers approach will work, albeit inelegantly....

[sfogg]

Thanks for the info. I ended up ordering the driver install packets from PE:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=260-776

They should arrive in time and hopefully they will work properly for me. If they aren't here in time I'll use washers with the screws I have until they arrive.

I started to buy some of this at the local HD but they didn't have black oxide only SS and they charged like $3 for two hex bolts.

Shawn

[Zilch]

Woulda been good if they'd sent THOSE with the Sub1500's.

But, nooooo.....

[sfogg]

I have the JBL Sub1500s better attached to their cabinets now.

Now I just need to finish the rest of the room so I can give them a listen.

Thanks,

Shawn

[Niklas Nord]

sfogg
are you using sealed or basreflex?
how many liters for each one?

sound okey?

[sfogg]

These are sealed cabinets at roughly 6 ft^3 each.

I haven't finished the room yet so I haven't had a chance to listen to them at this point. Hopefully I'll have it up and running in the next day or two.

Shawn

[mikebake]

Originally posted by sfogg
I have the JBL Sub1500s better attached to their cabinets now.

Now I just need to finish the rest of the room so I can give them a listen.

Thanks,

Shawn

Very cool. What drivers are in the other cabs, and describe the rest of your system.

[sfogg]

Mike,

The L/C/Rs are Klipsch/Altec hybrids. They started life as LaScalas but I ended up converting them to two way operation. The high end is an Altec 511B mounted in the LaScala cabinet with 902-8B drivers. The crossover was custom designed for me by Al Klappenberger and is an elliptic crossover that has initial slopes of roughly 150dB/octave centered at 600hz. There is only about a 50hz band where the drivers aren't more then 10dB down relative to each other. With the very little interaction between the drivers they have a very coherent, seamless sound.

Al has details on the crossover at:

http://www.alkeng.com/klipsch.html

The crossover model is the ES-600T.

When I get some time I'm going to refinish the three cabinets to match each other. Right now I'm just trying to get the room completed and get everything up and running.

The screen in that picture is a 8' wide (104" diagonal) 2.35 aspect ratio screen by Carada. The room itself is staggered stud construction on 2"x6" plates with double drywall and a floating ceiling also with double drywall. The front wall and about the first 1/3 of the side walls are heavily treated with acoustic foam and the ceiling is also completely treated with it as well. I'll be doing more in the rear of the room but wanted to get everything up so I could listen to it as is to decide where to do more treatments if needed.

Shawn

[mikebake]

Thanks, nice info. I threw your picture into the audiokarma.org forum and they wanted more info.
The room appears narrow relative to the system; I see you have it well-damped on the sidewalss, but do the dimensions seem to hurt?

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=201233#post201233

[sfogg]

Mike,

" The room appears narrow relative to the system; I see you have it well-damped on the sidewalss, but do the dimensions seem to hurt? "

Yes, it is narrower then I would have liked but it was what I had available for space. I decided a smaller dedicated room is still better then the larger compromised room I had the system in.

The dimensions aren't multiples of each other so that worked out. As far as how it is going to sound I don't really know yet as I'm still finishing everything up.

The room is considerably deader then it was before all the treatments and carpet. Just based on handclaps I suspect I'll need more in the rear of the room but want to get the system up and running before I do anything more there.

Shawn

[Mr. Widget]

Originally posted by John Y.
Mr. Widget,

Specifically, which JBL amp are you referring to?

John Y.

Sorry for the delay. I was away on vacation... a great thing to do. I had forgotten.

The amp I use to power the JBLSub1500s is a JBL MPA 600. It is fan cooled, but in my HT application I have never had the fan turn on. I guess it needs to be running near clipping continuously. The MPA series was built by QSC and were JBL's top end amps of the late 90's.

http://www.jblpro.com/pages/electronics/mpaamps.htm

Shawn,

Four Sub1500s in that rather small room?! I bet you could really pressurize it. I am using one pair in a much larger room and they will play scary loud and really move you. I am using them in ported cabinets with quite a bit of power, but still I bet your four will give you quite a bit of headroom.

Widget

[sfogg]

Widget,

"Four Sub1500s in that rather small room?! I bet you could really pressurize it."

That is what I'm hoping for. I'm going to be driving them by a Crown K2 so I should have plenty of power for them.

I also have a ServoDrive ContraBass so it will be interesting to see how the pair of JBLs compare. Probably won't be using the CB in this room though as I don't really have any place to put it.

Shawn

[mikebake]

Originally posted by sfogg
I decided a smaller dedicated room is still better then the larger compromised room I had the system in.



I think that will likely bear out to be true. Most people have to deal with the space dealt them!
Anyway, your system is way cool, and please keep us posted vai another future thread about the progress and the results. I applaud you.
MBB:cheers:

[Niklas Nord]

What cabinet size sealed enclosure has been the best you think?
anybody been testing different sizes? :)

[David Dryden]

I finally broke down and bought the pre-made 3 cubic foot box from Parts Express. I got tired of waiting for my shop to get built, so I took the leap. I wish they still carried the kits with the 1" MDF and internal bracing, 'cause this one is made with 3/4" and a small, almost usless brace about 2/3rds back across the cabinet. The box is alot more resonant than I'd like, but is is nicely finished, includes a nice grill, and got me up and running.

At any rate, I'm driving it with an old Crown DC-300A bridged mono. I have been able to light the IOC (clip warning) LED's on occasion, but that's only while deliberately cranking it up past "reasonable" levels. I've got about 20 hours of break-in so far with no glitches (i.e., spider coming un-glued). I plan on installing the second Sub1500 in this cabinet and breaking it in just to be sure they're both OK. All in all, I'm very happy with the setup so far. I'll eventually build a permanent cabinet that uses extensive bracing, etc. Hope the rest of you are having as much fun with yours as I am!

[MJC]

What cabinet size sealed enclosure has been the best you think?
anybody been testing different sizes? :)I built two 2.5 cuft sealed cabinets, using double layers of 5/8" mdf, with over lapping edges. I also built 4 sided 8" extentions that screwed onto the back edges of the top, bottom, and sides to make them 4 cuft(0.11 cu m) boxes. I used both sizes, first the 2.5 and then the 4.0. They are being powered by a Crown K2.
I'm now using the 2.5 versions, with one in the front, left corner and the other in the right, rear corner of the room. These positions gave me the best frequency response of the ones I tried. That is both by listening and running room response software I down loaded from the SMR forum web site. The "room response modes" was provided be Harman.
When I tried them in the 2 front corners, and then along the side walls I got a severe dip in the frequency response centered at 40htz. The response is now flat to almost 80htz.

[Tom Loizeaux]

I just re-read this entire thread! It's got to be the longest thread on the Forum.
Anyway, I'm about to buy a plate amp for my Sub1500 and want to know what you guys think of using this speaker in a 2.5 cu.ft sealed box with the PE 250 watt plate amp with EQ? The EQ is speced at: 6dB boost @ 30Hz. Will this combination let the Sub1500 perform well?
Thanks,

Tom

[MJC]

I've got my subs in 2.5 sealed boxes and have them powered by a Crown K2, which outputs 800wpc to 4 ohms. The sub1500 is rated at 800w. Now I don't have any eq, but the crown is at about 90%. So I don't think 250w would be enough, even with eq boost.

[4313B]

I thought PE had a plate amp that one could adjust the amount of boost. You need something you can adjust in 1 dB increments.

[Mr. Widget]

So I don't think 250w would be enough, even with eq boost.
That should read especially with EQ boost. As you crank the low frequencies you will run out of juice in a hurry.

I fully agree about 250 watts being on the low end. I am using 600watts and it is comfortable.

I have two questions for you.
1. What is the SMR forum web site?
2. Could you post the "room response modes" that you got from Harman?

Widget

[Zilch]

250W is not gonna get it in the closed box, especially if you're adding EQ. PE also has 500W (#300-806) and 1000W (#300-808) sub plate amps. The are on "Special" now at $250 and $350, respectively, according to the rag that came in the mail last week.... :D

[sfogg]

SMR Forums is at:

http://forums.smr-forums.com:8080/login

The room response modeling program was something Jim Muller wrote while developing the EQ software for the MC-12 and he later posted it to the Lexicon forum for others to try.

After you log into SMR (even as a guest) go to this link for more info on the program:

http://forums.smr-forums.com:8080/read?30395,5e#30395

Shawn

[David Dryden]

Tom,
I would also recommend more than 250 watts. The Crown amp that I'm using is pushing more than 600 watts and it's, as Mr. Widget says, "comfortable". I wouldn't go with any less.

[4313B]

I use a Citation 22. It's rated :p at 200 watts per channel in stereo mode. ;)

[sebackman]

I use a Urei 6290 for two Sub1500 (2x600 FTC @ 4ohm) in closed cabinets and the clip lights do go on if played hard. :cool:

/Robert

[dougzilla]

Contrarian view. I'm still happy with my PE 250W running a single S1500 in my 3 cu ft. sealed box. Not that I wouldn't appreciate more power, just to know I could shift my house on its foundations if I needed to, but it hasn't really been necessary for my program material and listening levels. To put this to scale, the rest of my family/media room system where the sub lives runs off just 100W/ch (bi-amped through a pair of McIntosh 2505's), easily filling about a 2000 cu ft room.

I am EQ'd flat to 25Hz using a Behringer DEQ2496 and I cross the sub off the mains at 60 Hz, 24db/o using an external active 3-way (plate amp set to highest xover freq). Been running it all 3-6 hrs/day for six months now, no problems. Gain on the plate amp is set about halfway up

All depends how you intend to use it, I guess.

[Mr. Widget]

All depends how you intend to use it, I guess. Absolutely! I occasionally use mine for pest control. :D

Do you use it for movies, music, or both?

Widget

[dougzilla]

Music, movies, TV, seismic waves, whatever....

What I like about the Sub1500, compared to other subwoofers I have heard, is that it stays nicely controlled at all listening levels. I appreciate the sweetness and sense of pitch even down at very low frequencies. None of that bullfrog-like oo00OOO00oomp (think the lowrider kid in the car next to you at the stoplight). I think this is due to the hugely over-engineered mass of the cone, surround and motor. Nothing is going to flop around incoherently on this puppy, even in the small boxes we are typically using.

Great example is the bass on Dr. John's Ellington tribute album "Duke Elegant." On the stereo at this very moment. :cool:

[Niklas Nord]

For you who wondered if 200watts or so would make it. I would depend
on the size of the cabinet, the placement of the cabinet and if your using
EQ wich is often the bad guy where it comes to eating alot of watts from
your amp. every 3db is the double power from your amp.

using as little as 200watts, I would always place the sub as close to nearby
corners where it would ultimately yield +18db in the lowest area of sub
frequencies :) really makes a difference. aspecially with sealed subs.

best thing may be to buy a regular ampfilter and use this with a digital ampfilter
and have some measuring microphone nearby.. :)

[Niklas Nord]

Has anybody testing to paralell two SUB1500, this would be something like
2,5ohms in a 80L closed box stuffed with nice materials..

well, @ 400hz it would be alot lower than 2,5 ohms so there would be a need
for sharp crossower slope...
The Rotel ampfilters or NAD or something else well built would handle this load
2,5 ohms i think :)

[4313B]

I guess I could try it. The Citation 22 in stereo mode is rated 800 watts dynamic output into a 2 ohm load. I'll probably run an impedance curve on a pair of paralleled 1500SUB's first though.

[sfogg]

In my 6'^3 subs the woofers are run in parallel. The K2 seems to drive them just fine this way. I haven't bothered to measure the impedance of the drivers like this though.

Shawn

[Niklas Nord]

Is that 3 cu feet / driver ?!
closed?
stuffing?

[sfogg]

Yes, the total cabinet volume is about 6 cubic feet so each driver is getting about half that. The cabinet is sealed and has about 5lbs of Acousta-Stuf in each cabinet.

Shawn

[MJC]

In my 6'^3 subs the woofers are run in parallel. The K2 seems to drive them just fine this way. I haven't bothered to measure the impedance of the drivers like this though.

Shawn
Hi Shawn, for awhile I was running my pair of 1500s in parallel on one side of the K2. They each had 4cuft at the time. 1250w to each. Since I've repositioned the subs I've now got them back to 2.5cuft, and one to each side of the K2.

[sfogg]

MJC,

The K2 is a great subwoofer amp. I have each cabinet (2 Sub1500s per cabinet) running off one channel of the K2. I have a second K2 so if I really wanted to I could bridge a K2 per cabinet but I don't really see the point.

Shawn

[Mr. Widget]

They each had 4cuft at the time. 1250w to each. Since I've repositioned the subs I've now got them back to 2.5cuft, and one to each side of the K2. What differences did you notice between the two different enclosure volumes? I assume they were both sealed enclosures?

Widget

[MJC]

What differences did you notice between the two different enclosure volumes? I assume they were both sealed enclosures?

WidgetThere didn't seem to be much difference, and yes, they were both sealed. But now that I have found, what seems to be the best postions for them, I might try putting the extentions back on them to tell if there is any difference. If there isn't, then there is no reason to keep them at 4cuft.

[MJC]

MJC,

The K2 is a great subwoofer amp. I have each cabinet (2 Sub1500s per cabinet) running off one channel of the K2. I have a second K2 so if I really wanted to I could bridge a K2 per cabinet but I don't really see the point.

ShawnI wish I had bought 2 more, could have put one in each corner. But now that I have them in corners, diagonally across the room from each other, they seem to be producing a more linear output.
Lets see here, a K2 bridged @ 4 ohms is 2500w. Would the 1500s take that? I've put 1250w to them. And if the K2 bridged, @ 2 ohms, there would be no way, or so I would think. Anyway, I'm not about to fine out.

[Niklas Nord]

Did the Revel sub use 47Liters?
how did they came up with this?
corner placement, alot of EQ and ALOOOT of power from the amp :D

[Mr. Widget]

Did the Revel sub use 47Liters?
how did they came up with this?
corner placement, alot of EQ and ALOOOT of power from the amp :D
The Revel was closer to 42.5 Liters. Lots of EQ and power.:thmbsup:

Widget

[Niklas Nord]

Does anybody know what kind of EQ and how much and how much power?

[4313B]

http://www.revelspeakers.com/PDF_manuals/sub15le1_om_r1.pdf

[Niklas Nord]

is the 47 Liter box somewhat optimized so that disotrsion and
compliant are as good as needed.

?

[Niklas Nord]

does anybody have an impedance-curve for the SUB1500 driver?
measurement of the electrical impedance...

[Niklas Nord]

Waow, nice Giskard.. SO there will be some curves... :)

[4313B]

Minimum Impedance:

1500SUB #1 3.98 ohms
1500SUB #2 4.04 ohms
1500SUB #3 4.05 ohms
1500SUB #4 4.18 ohms
1500SUB #5 4.04 ohms
1500SUB #6 4.18 ohms

[4313B]

Parts Express also did one and here's that data:

[4313B]

More stuff from PE

[Niklas Nord]

great Giskard.

Very helpfull. I´m up to simulating the driver in several volumes and
with several kinds of stuffing.

I want to see what volume and stuffing I should have for each of
the 16 drivers.

I´m going to run two drivers per chanel, so I dont want them both
to go under 2ohms couse that would be somewhat more distorsion
via the ampfiler I think.

Right now I´m up to 55 Liters á driver.

What you all think about that?

[Niklas Nord]

The Revel was closer to 42.5 Liters. Lots of EQ and power.:thmbsup:

Widget

Fourtytwo !? 42,5 liter... little..
petit

Do you know the amount of EQ?
I guess, revel has alot of skilled people at harman / JBL so they
made up this size of the box. I guess it´s a size that is very right on.

ideal size or something

[Mr. Widget]

Do you know the amount of EQ?

I think the question would be more like what was the nature or type of EQ used. They only sold these subwoofers to be used with a dedicated amp with built in EQ including user adjustment for fine tuning.

Did you read the links that Giskard posted? They pretty much explain it.

Widget

[MJC]

I just looked at the link for the sealed box. The dimensions are almost identical to the boxes I built. The main differences are that my sides, top, bottom, and back are 1 1/4" thick(double 5/8" mdf). The baffle is only 1" thick, it is a PE baffle that is 18 3/4" square.
So that I wouldn't end up with a cube, I butted the full 1 1/4" sides to the back side of the baffle. But the bottom is butted to the bottom edge of the baffle and the top is aligned so that the inside layer is butted to the inside of the baffle and the outside layer of the top sits on top of the baffle. I made the back removeable, using finish hex barrel thru bolts.
This gives a box that is 1/4" wider and 5/8" taller and 5/8" deeper than the one in the link.

It is a size that really works well.

Strange thing about the drawing for the box, they have no internal bracing at all. I used another 1" baffle for a horizontal brace, at the mid point. I cut off one side, so the depth would be the same as the internal depth of the box. Butted the cut ends to the center of the baffle there it meets the sides. And added vertical pieces glued between the bottom and horizontal brace and top and brace at the center of the back of the circle.

[jcdahl]

I have just inherited a pair of Stereo AMPZILLA Amplifiers from a friend who recently passed away . I am thinking about using them with my SUB1500s. I think they are 350W per channel into the 4 0hm Sub1500s. Has anyone had any experience with AMPZILLAs?

[Zilch]

Don't know if anybody already posted it, and I ain't searchin' to find out.

Sub1500 cone moves out when + is applied to the red terminal.

Heads up - that's opposite of most JBL drivers.

Gotta get the phase RIGHT when combining them.... :banghead:

[Mr. Widget]

Sub1500 cone moves out when + is applied to the red terminal.

Heads up - that's opposite of most JBL drivers.

Gotta get the phase RIGHT when combining them.... :banghead:


I am surprised Bo didn't come in on this one... the polarity convention used to be one of his favorite topics. ;)

On a thread deep in the bowels of this forum Giskard posted a list of all of the newer JBL woofers that have joined the rest of the world's convention on polarity. The list included a couple of old examples that reversed from the JBL "Standard" but for the most part it is only the recent drivers like the Sub1500, 1500AL etc. that are forward moving.

Basically, if you aren't sure you have to check it... same is true of the HF devices and that is far less trivial to test.

Widget

[imtkjlu]

Anyone know how to get them today ?

///Kjelle

[Mr. Widget]

Post an inquiry in the Marketplace and see if anyone is willing to part with some.

Good luck. They are worth seeking out.

Widget

[MJC]

Hi all, just got a new, just off the line H/K 635 receiver, w/ EzSet/EQ. Which is just what the 2 sub1500s needed to give them a kick in the ass. The 635 is far superior to the 7 year old Marantz 880 it replaced. The room EQ has really filled in the LF range. And those big beasts, along with the 7 112As really shine on SACD/DVD-audio recordings now.
And the cost of the 635 is less than 10% of the Lexicon MC-12v4, which I still wouldn't mind having, and still has Logic7. That by itself is worth the $799 I paid for the H/K.
So now the 1500s are doing all that I thought they were capable of.

[4313B]

Nice John! :)

I've got the older AVR 7200 and really enjoy it. H/K has always had the juice to drive JBL's. ;)

Here's looking at your AVR 635. :coolness:

[jblnut]

Nice John! :)

I've got the older AVR 7200 and really enjoy it. H/K has always had the juice to drive JBL's. ;)

Here's looking at your AVR 635. :coolness:

Hi Giskard,

Did HK address the video shortcomings of the 7000 when they revamped it into the 7200 ? I talked a buddy into getting one of the refurb 7000's from the HK site (a steal in the mid $500's as I recall), but we were both surprised and disappinted at the video section. Even though it has "component video switching" it doesn't do any of the new hi-res modes like 720P or 1080i so we had to route the video directly into the TV instead. It's still a sonic monster and it's built like a tank, but maybe I should have looked into the 7200 more closely...

jblnut

[MJC]

Hi Giskard, the 635 is the first H/K receiver I've owned. Right now it is only driving the back surrounds, as I've got the Parasound 5 channel amp driving the rest. The Marantz really needed it. One of these days I'll disconnect the Parasound a see what the 635 will do on its own. And if I keep it that way I can always use the high end interconnects between the DVD-audio and the 635.
And I already know that the Crown K2 and the 2 1500s only needed a good processor and room EQ in front of them. And I don't get the thumping sound thru the subs anymore when I change inputs or channels. So clearly it was the Marantz at fault on that issue, not the ground loop I first thought it was.

I don't know about the 7200, but the 635 passes all HD. The only thing I haven't figured out yet is when I watched a movie thru the new Samsung DVD-audio/SACD player I couldn't get the 635 to see the 5.1 DD input. Instead it went to the 6 channel direct input. And of coarse, you can't use Logic7 on the direct input. But I've got the LG DVD player/HD receiver with a 5.1 digital output and they both upconvert to 1080i. So I'll use the Samsung DVD-audio/SACD for music only.

[MJC]

Revel Home Theater (http://ultimateavmag.com/speakersystems/44)
Thomas J. Norton, Vol.4 No.6, July, 1998

Just found this review on the Revel HT system that includes the Revel/JBL sub1500. In the review Tom compared the sub1500 to the Velodyne sub.

[Zilch]

"Careful listening pinned these noises to driver distress, not cabinet or room vibrations."

Amp distress, more likely.... :p

[linear]

Has anyone actually run the numbers on the Sub1500s suitability for downfiring orientation? Someone in a previous post thought the cone might be a bit too heavy. Do any of you tech heavy senior members know for sure?


Yes, it's too heavy.

I ran the numbers for the sag of a vertically mounted Sub1500 and got 0.38mm or about 2% of its Xmax of 18mm. This should be OK - well under the "rule-of-thumb" of 5%. Am I missing something? It is heavy at about 311 gm, but the suspension is correspondingly stiff to keep the Fs at 25 Hz. (The equations seem to say that sag is ONLY proportional to the inverse of the square of Fs. So, the weight should not be an issue, as long as Fs remains at 25 Hz.)

Comments? I've already built my downfiring speakers with Sub1500s, so I hope I'm not going to run into sag problems!

[Don C]

I suppose that you could make a fixture to hold a depth gauge, and measure how deep the cone is relative to the frame with different orientations. But even if the cone stays close enough to centered while facing down, wouldn't gravity affect the resoponse anyway? 311 gm has to be kind of hard for the motor to lift straight up.

[Zilch]

I would be concerned that it might sag over time with 24/7 downward force.

Lotsa downward-firing subs out there, tho....

[JuniorJBL]

I have had these in 2 different size boxes and so far I like the 2.2 cuft sealed boxes a little better than my 3.9 cuft sealed boxes. I am normaly a fan of vented boxes but because I wanted to keep them small this is what I found.

I now know that I have much more space then I thought so now onto the 2242's in a 10-12 cuft tuned to about 25-28 Hz.

Will post pics later.
Shane
:applaud:

[4313B]

I ran the numbers for the sag of a Sub1500 and got 0.38mm or about 2% of its Xmax of 18mm. This should be OK - well under the "rule-of-thumb" of 5%. Am I missing something?I'm not going to comment on that since you've already built your subs, but here's what I got for numbers:

[linear]

I'm not going to comment on that since you've already built your subs, but here's what I got for numbers:

Thanks very much for posting your numbers on sag. Based solely on that data, it seems that the Sub1500 would be OK for vertical mounting (i.e. the sag is less than 5% of Xmax). Nevertheless, since the cone is so heavy (with Mms at 300 gm), I understand that you would not recommend a downfiring application. Could you comment on this further? What upper limit should be put on Mms for a speaker to be recommended for this configuration? Does anyone know of any literature on the long-term effects of vertical mounting?

I really like the performance of the Sub1500 and I would hate to damage it, over time, due to vertical mounting. A frank opinion would be really appreciated. (I'll re-build/re-configure my subs if necessary!)

[4313B]

I'll get a definitive answer for you sometime next week.

[linear]

I'll get a definitive answer for you sometime next week.

Have you heard from any of your JBL contacts regarding the suitability of the Sub1500 for vertical mounting? I would love to hear what someome like Doug Button has to say on the subject.

I have been unable to find any literature or papers on vertical mounting, except for the often repeated "rule of thumb" that the sag must not exceed 5% of Xmax. (The Sub1500 meets this requirement.)

However, I did dig up some interesting details on the B&O BeoLab 5 speaker system. It uses a vertically mounted 15" driver, in a 1 cu ft (28 L) sealed box, and it is driven by an "equalized" 1000 w amplifier. The only other info that I could find out about the transducer is that its Xmax is 21 mm, and the resonance in the box is 60 Hz. This sounds a lot like the original Revel Sub15 application that the Sub1500 was designed for. In fact, I ran the Sub1500 parameters with a 1 cu ft sealed box and got a resonance of exactly 60 Hz! So, the B&O 15" driver must be very similar to the Sub1500.

Therefore, the above information begs the question - did the B&O engineers know what they were doing when they vertically mounted their driver? Can we use this design as evidence that the Sub1500 would be OK in this type of application? Perhaps, this is a loaded question to ask on a JBL forum! Can we get an opinion from the JBL engineers? Maybe B&O and JBL could "slug it out" at the next AES conference!

Regards,
Linear

[Mr. Widget]

"- did the B&O engineers know what they were doing when they vertically mounted their driver?"

Maybe, but it sure doesn't sound terribly good. I was impressed with it's output capability and fairly decent extension, but it just didn't have a musical sound to it... I wouldn't say it was a one note bass like Bose, but it was very lacking in detail resolution.


As for a comparison between it and the Sub1500... the Revel box was 1.5 cu ft.

Widget

[JuniorJBL]

The Sunfire was a "one note" wonder as well.
The sub1500 on the otherhand is more musical than most.
Only the right cab and driver can be musical! boom boom is all that people think is "great".
If they only listened to the music and not just how much "BASS" it has then maybe people would look for "Good" subs! IMO:)
Shane

[Mr. Widget]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5771744073&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Oh look.... here's one now, and it even comes with that killer amp! I realize this is a bit steep for those of us who were lucky enough to get the Sub1500s at fire sale prices, but this is really quite the deal. I wish I had a few extra bucks lying around.:banghead:

Widget

[johnaec]

I just wonder - how much would gravity affect the +/- linearity when working against gravity to pull that heavy cone back up, compared to the gravity assist when going down? Or would they just cancel each other out, other than the sag offset?

John

[4313B]

Have you heard from any of your JBL contacts regarding the suitability of the Sub1500 for vertical mounting?Yes, today in fact.

With respect to mounting the SUB1500 face down -

In a vented system, or even a sealed system, it could easily lead to software DC rectification. That is when the software drifts outward or inward, under AC signal, as if a DC signal were present. BL, Suspension, Inductive, Asymmetries basic non-linearity's can all lead to this motion instability. It will also reduce power handling (mechanical) since the coil is moving more that it would be under normal, stable conditions. Thermal power handling could also be sacrificed since the coil will have a tendency to spend more time outside the gap, minimizing thermal transfer.

I would be worried about sag over time leading to axial coil misalignment, thus leading to or worsening the DC issue mentioned above.

[linear]

Thanks very much,Giskard, for getting the expert opinion on vertically mounting the Sub1500. I've never heard of "software DC rectification", but it looks like it's something to be concerned about.

One final thought. This mechanism (SDCR!) must only be active when the speaker is being driven with signal. Otherwise, speakers would de-grade in shipping and storage. Until they are installed in a cabinet, they spent their life "Flat". On the other hand, maybe we should be storing vintage speakers on edge!

Regards,

Doug

[4313B]

"software DC rectification"

It's a technical term. ;)

The designer of the SUB1500 refers to the moving assembly as software and the basket/magnetic assembly as hardware. :coolness:


Otherwise, speakers would de-grade in shipping and storage.They do. Store them on edge otherwise their suspensions will sag. Gravity is relentless.

[Mr. Widget]

They do. Store them on edge otherwise their suspensions will sag. Gravity is relentless.

Most of us JBL nuts rotate our stored drivers on a regular schedule. I store most of mine vertically, but those that I can't, I flip them over regularly.

Widget

[MJC]

I was just reading through the sub1500 manual. I'm glad I had enough sense to use 10ga, being I bought a 50ft roll and cut it in half and used each half for each sub. Falls in line with their wire chart, and even more so being I'm using a K2 amp that outputs 800w instead of the LE-1's 700w. And the K2 is set to almost max.
Revel's decision to discontiue the 1500 really did make a bargain for all of us that grabed them for $250. And in a review I read they outperformed the Velodyne sub that was available at the time of the review.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5771744073&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1


Oh look.... here's one now, and it even comes with that killer amp! I realize this is a bit steep for those of us who were lucky enough to get the Sub1500s at fire sale prices, but this is really quite the deal. I wish I had a few extra bucks lying around.:banghead:

Widget

[Mr. Widget]

This thread has been idle long enough!

I have been using Sub1500s since March 2004... during that time I tried 1.5 cu ft sealed boxes and ported 5 cu ft boxes. In my large bass hungry room I found the big ported numbers to be preferable. For the vast majority of their life I have used these wonderful woofers in my HT system and the results are simply staggering. The sound of a building coming down or a mid-air collision is quite enveloping as the room pressurizes with the impact of the subsonic noise.

More recently I have also been using them to augment my stereo system. In critical listening I have found the group delay to be quite apparent. It makes the deep bass sound like it is coming from some quite distant source that is almost echo like... this effect is awesome for the movies, but rather disturbing when it is coming from the lower notes of the piano.

Most likely I will build a pair of 2.5-3.0 cu ft sealed boxes for a pair to be used with music and continue using another pair in the big ported boxes. For now I am using the patented Zilch magic port stoppers (otherwise know as a 4" plumber's plug). Here are plots comparing the frequency response change and the group delay changes between the two. Realize these are simulations and do not show any room gain.

Widget

[Lancer]

For the vast majority of their life I have used these wonderful woofers in my HT system and the results are simply staggering. The sound of a building coming down or a mid-air collision is quite enveloping as the room pressurizes with the impact of the subsonic noise.

More recently I have also been using them to augment my stereo system. In critical listening I have found the group delay to be quite apparent. It makes the deep bass sound like it is coming from some quite distant source that is almost echo like... this effect is awesome for the movies, but rather disturbing when it is coming from the lower notes of the piano.

OMG! You mean I wasn't full of shit and blowing smoke up everyone's ass all these years???

[mikebake]

Thank God, someone has lassoed this dinosaur thread from their SUV and pulled it from the tar pit. Ahhh, the love affair continues. :applaud:
Mine haven't even stretched their legs from outta the box much yet, so by the time ya'll are tired of 'em, I'll be waxing rhapsodic.
Anyway, it just ain't right in my view: a driver is like a muscle and needs to be put to good use on a regular basis, otherwise what good is it? Seeing a shelf full of fine "vintage" drivers sitting mute leaves me with a sad feeling, like seeing a champ mothballed. (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/modern_flight/mf35.htm)

[Mr. Widget]

For the vast majority of their life I have used these wonderful woofers in my HT system and the results are simply staggering. The sound of a building coming down or a mid-air collision is quite enveloping as the room pressurizes with the impact of the subsonic noise.

More recently I have also been using them to augment my stereo system. In critical listening I have found the group delay to be quite apparent. It makes the deep bass sound like it is coming from some quite distant source that is almost echo like... this effect is awesome for the movies, but rather disturbing when it is coming from the lower notes of the piano.

OMG! You mean I wasn't full of shit and blowing smoke up everyone's ass all these years???

Sure you were! Just not about massive group delay.:duck:


BTW: Did you ever mention that it could be a useful tool? I don't seem to remember ever reading where someone thought it a beneficial acoustic phenomena... in my HT it is a very neat effect. I did read an interview with John Meyer years ago where he described installing some massive low distortion subs in a San Francisco theater back during the release of Apocalypse Now. While his subs were lower distortion at greater SPL, the big Altecs sounded BIGGER... he didn't attribute it to group delay, but that may have been part of it along with a healthy increase in second harmonic distortion... sometimes maybe a bit of distortion is a nice thing. Tubes anyone?:D

Widget

[mikebake]

.. sometimes maybe a bit of distortion is a nice thing. Tubes anyone?:D

Widget

Been widely discussed without, of course, resolution elsewhere. My ponderings on the question for the last few years is that there can be some pleasantly received distortion, in different forms.

[speakerdave]

Actually, I do remember "Giskard" mentioning the group delay penalty when using the big box with ports (or any other bass extension strategy), but it is simply too tedious to go back and find it.

Despite previous claims that there is no connection between group delay and real time in playback, I do not think having subwoofers back in the corners behind the speakers (as I have seen in many system photos in these forums) is a very good idea. I'll refer to Drew's suggestion that subwoofers be centered between the main speakers and forward of their plane if possible. Can't hurt to try it. I believe that JBL is now suggesting midway along the sidewalls now in some of their literature.

Anyway, I will very soon be beginning my own experiments thanks to the generosity of one of our forum Wizards who had some surplus boxes.

David

[Mr. Widget]

Actually, I do remember "Giskard" mentioning the group delay penalty when using the big box with ports...

Absolutely! I agreed in principle at the time too, but didn't really have a preference one way or the other until I started to really listen critically in a two channel stereo scenario.

What I was trying to point out in my post above was that for movies, the most "accurate" sound may not be the most desirable. John Meyer found this out in his demo where his theoretically superior speakers were not universally accepted and seemed unimpressive in comparison to the "less accurate" industry standard. In my case, I prefer the "massively large" sound that is created by this less than ideal tuning... but only in the realm of LFE. For music, plugging the ports makes a huge improvement making the sound much more integrated.

I am sure there would be people that prefer the dryer sound for LFE as well and yet others that would like the "massive" sound for music... it is all good!


Widget

[Lancer]

the most "accurate" sound may not be the most desirable.Evidently so if folks here are spec'ing E120's for home hi-fi midbass transducers... :rotfl:

[Mr. Widget]

Evidently so if folks here are spec'ing E120's for home hi-fi midbass transducers... :rotfl:

Did I do that?

If I did, I was wrong... if someone else made that recommendation, I bet it is a good idea...:applaud:


Widget

[Lancer]

if someone else made that recommendation, I bet it is a good idea...:applaud:
"Right..." - Dr. Evil

[spkrman57]

But I have the consolation prize: 2242 in 9 cubic ft cabinets. They are finally starting to break in some from regular playing.

I like when folks come over and start looking around when really "LOW" notes play on the audio system that they can't hear, but definitely feel.

I should have been more attentive when the sub1500's were available, I would have liked a pair to try out.

Maybe when Baker gets tired of his sitting around, I'll have to catch him at a weak moment and buy them off him!!!!!



Ron

[Lancer]

Why are his sitting around? He has two boxes for them right now. They can be run sealed or ported as desired.

[spkrman57]

"Mine haven't even stretched their legs from outta the box much yet, so by the time ya'll are tired of 'em, I'll be waxing rhapsodic."


Mike, send them to me to give them some actual run time!!!!


Ron

[Lancer]

Oh. Maybe he's still looking for something to drive them with.

[MJC]

Despite previous claims that there is no connection between group delay and real time in playback, I do not think having subwoofers back in the corners behind the speakers (as I have seen in many system photos in these forums) is a very good idea. I'll refer to Drew's suggestion that subwoofers be centered between the main speakers and forward of their plane if possible. Can't hurt to try it. I believe that JBL is now suggesting midway along the sidewalls now in some of their literature.
David

But using the newer pre/pros or receivers, like the H/K AVR 635, that has the auto eq you can set the distance of all the speakers, including the subs, from your seated position. And I do have my two 1500s in the front corners, in sealed 2.5cuft boxes. They sound great for both music and HT.

Although when I first built the boxes, using two layers of 5/8" mdf, I built them in a way that I could attach an eight inch deep open ended extention and just repositioned the back. This gave me 4cuft boxes, but I couldn't hear any difference. Guess I could try them again with a port for HT and then plug them for music.

[MJC]

This thread has been idle long enough!

I have been using Sub1500s since March 2004... during that time I tried 1.5 cu ft sealed boxes and ported 5 cu ft boxes. In my large bass hungry room I found the big ported numbers to be preferable. For the vast majority of their life I have used these wonderful woofers in my HT system and the results are simply staggering. The sound of a building coming down or a mid-air collision is quite enveloping as the room pressurizes with the impact of the subsonic noise.

Most likely I will build a pair of 2.5-3.0 cu ft sealed boxes for a pair to be used with music and continue using another pair in the big ported boxes. For now I am using the patented Zilch magic port stoppers (otherwise know as a 4" plumber's plug). Here are plots comparing the frequency response change and the group delay changes between the two. Realize these are simulations and do not show any room gain.

Widget

What length did you make the 4" port. Or more to the point, what length would I need to put into my extended 4cuft boxes, that I mentioned above?

[Mr. Widget]

You may need an elbow... I have mine tuned to 21Hz. For a 4" ported 4 cu ft box it should be ~15.25" long. Ideally you should have two 4" ports to reduce port noise, but for movies it isn't a problem. Two 4" ports would need to be ~33" ea.! This is why all of those small subs use PRs... there is no way to tune them low and physically fit a port.


Widget

[MJC]

The 8" extentions makes the boxes 25" deep x 19" wide. So I could go either way, one port of 15.25" or two 33" long using elbows. But in either case I'd plug the ports for music.
Thanks.

[Zilch]

Proprietary plumbers' port plugs proliferate!

[Heh, heh.... ;) ]

[Mr. Widget]

Proprietary plumbers' port plugs proliferate!

[Heh, heh.... ;) ]

You know, while they do work well... they make my thumbs sore tightening them down. Seems like there must be a better solution. Something with lever action rather than a twist.:hmm:


Widget

[Zilch]

Called "Quick Snap Test Plugs," they have a camlock lever; look like the old soda bottle sealers.

Cost more, is all, the 4" version is $29.04 at McMaster-Carr, 3" is $26.61.

You can also "Hotrod" the cheap ones with a teflon washer and larger "T" knob to replace the wingnut for a couple of bucks.

Another option: Use a hexnut and box wrench.

Usage tip for the low profile big rubber washer ones: After loosening, give them a couple of minutes to "relax." They'll fall right out, then. You'll soon learn just how much to loosen not to have them literally do that, tho. :)

I use the low profile ones 'cause they grab right at the cabinet baffle and don't stress the ID of the port itself....

[MJC]

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=268-352

Has anyone tried these? If they work as described, I'd only need one per box.

[pangea]

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=268-352

Has anyone tried these? If they work as described, I'd only need one per box.

Yes I'm using curved ports like that and yes they are very good.
When using those, you should also put a curved flange inside the speaker, because the air is pumping both ways.
I've also read somewhere that it is important to have at least a W/H 2x2 inch "baffle" mounted on the flange inside the speaker!

If memory doesn't fail me, the length of the port is measured at the middle point on the curved flange.

BR
Roland

[Mr. Widget]

Flared ports are superior to standard ports in that they are quieter and they also couple with the air better. When using flared ports the effective length is increased. (You need a shorter flared port for the same tuning.) With flared ports you really should measure the tuned frequency electrically and determine the ultimate length that way.


Widget

[pangea]

Flared ports are superior to standard ports in that they are quieter and they also couple with the air better. When using flared ports the effective length is increased. (You need a shorter flared port for the same tuning.) With flared ports you really should measure the tuned frequency electrically and determine the ultimate length that way.


Widget

Hi Widget!

How much shorter would you say roughly?
Could you please describe how that is done electrically and what equippment is needed?


Could I use a tone generator or test CD and could I use an RTA like in the Behringer Ultradrive?

BR
Roland

[stevem]

Flared ports are superior to standard ports in that they are quieter and they also couple with the air better. When using flared ports the effective length is increased. (You need a shorter flared port for the same tuning.) With flared ports you really should measure the tuned frequency electrically and determine the ultimate length that way.


Widget

I've used the 4" version of these ports, and if I remember correctly, you have to ADD and inch to the overall port length to compensate for the flares. I agree with Widget that you should measure the resonant frequency to determine port length.



Be aware that the ABS used here is much thinner (flimsier) that that found in ABS or PVC drain pipes that many people use for ports

[Mr. Widget]

I've used the 4" version of these ports, and if I remember correctly, you have to ADD ...

Are you sure? I haven't used them myself, but I thought they reduced the needed length... the mind is a terrible thing to loose...


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

Could you please describe how that is done electrically and what equippment is needed?

If no one else pops in I'll get back to you with a method. There are several. I have to run...


Widget

[stevem]

I went to their website: http://www.psp-inc.com/

The installation instruction page states the following:

"The Precision Port™ should be 1" longer than Lv when assembled"

I know what you mean about the mind! :confused:

[Uncle Paul]

http://www.psp-inc.com/psp-inc.com/public_html/manual2.htm

[MJC]

I went to their website: http://www.psp-inc.com/

The installation instruction page states the following:

"The Precision Port™ should be 1" longer than Lv when assembled"

I know what you mean about the mind! :confused:


I used their calculate page, and for a 4.0cuft box, tuned to 21, 1 port, 4"di = 17.27"
4.0cuft box, tuned to 21, 1 port, 3" di = 9.6"

In both cases, the flared length was as inch longer than a straight port.

[Mr. Widget]

Could you please describe how that is done electrically and what equipment is needed?

The method I used to use was essentially the same as used to measure Fs. (Constant current method) You need a sinewave oscillator (preferably with built in frequency counter or you'll need one of those too), a known high power resistive load, and an AC volt meter.

Here is a link that explains it better than I could: http://sound.westhost.com/tsp.htm

This will show you the two impedance peaks. The low impedance point between the two peaks will be the tuned frequency... this method isn't absolutely precise, but it will get you close. You can get more accurate and measure phase with an oscilloscope at the same time to locate the absolute points...

More recently I have been using a technique described by Dr. D'Appolito where the tuning frequency shows up as a minimum frequency of a close miked woofer. The two woofers shown below are tuned to 25Hz.

Widget

[Ros3bud]

Hi guys :D

I'm fully interested in the sub1500 driver but this one is not sold anymore (i live in europe) :banghead:

Have you ever compared the JBL TIK sub (sub1500) to the revel Performa B15 (a similar 15" driver) ? do they perform the same ?

Is JBL still selling such woofers like the sub1500 (down to 20 hz in a 70 liters sealed enclosure like the TIK sub)?

Do you think the JBL W15 GTI (car woofer) performs as well as the sub 1500?

Cheers ;)

[pangea]

Hi guys :D

I'm fully interested in the sub1500 driver but this one is not sold anymore (i live in europe) :banghead:

Have you ever compared the JBL TIK sub (sub1500) to the revel Performa B15 (a similar 15" driver) ? do they perform the same ?

Is JBL still selling such woofers like the sub1500 (down to 20 hz in a 70 liters sealed enclosure like the TIK sub)?

Do you think the JBL W15 GTI (car woofer) performs as well as the sub 1500?

Cheers ;)

Hi, and welcome to the forum.

I'm not quite sure, but I think the sell out at Parts Express, of the sub1500 was a kind of left over, from Revel and i should therefore think it would be similar to present Revel subs.

If you use the search function on this forum, you will find lots of info on the awesome W15 GTI, which I think is also very similar to the sub1500.

BR
Roland

[4313B]

Is JBL still selling such woofers like the sub1500 (down to 20 hz in a 70 liters sealed enclosure like the TIK sub)?The replacement for the SUB1500 is the W1500H.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7113

[jpb_dk]

Hi Guys,
I understand that the "W1500H", is the new "hit" for wooferdesign. As i have never seen it IRL, talked to anyone build anything with it, neither bought one because its not that easy to get from JBL i like to know where you guys talking about it go shopping and whats the price.
Thanks
Jens

[coherent_guy]

The driver used in the Revel B15 is rather different than the sub1500, it is a described as having an inverted dome metal cone, and has a larger surround than the sub1500. Here's a link to a picture of the driver of the Revel B15a subwoofer, I believe it is identical to the one used in the B15.

http://www.revelspeakers.com/image_library/B15A_DRIVE_lo.jpg (http://www.revelspeakers.com/image_library/B15A_DRIVE_lo.jpg)

[grumpy]

I believe it was the SUB-15/LE-1 subwoofer/amp combo. -grumpy

[MJC]

Just recently added the 8" extention, with twin 2" flaired ports, to one of the sub1500 2.5cuft boxes. So for now I have one sealed 1500 on one side of the room and the ported 3.65cuft on the other.
Played thru a few scenes of a movie 3 times. First with just the sealed unit on, got 93db(main control @ -18) on the loudest blasts. Then replayed with the ported sub on, got 97db. Then with both subs on over 100db.
Despite using only 2" ports I got no port noise at all, just good low, loud bass.
Haven't decided if I'm going to port the other sub. I like sealed better for music, but then again, I do have two 12" subs connected to the main L/R L212s, if I'm just playing stereo music.
Also thinking about building new ported sub boxes that are taller, thus making them shorter f/b, taking up less floor space.

[MJC]

I decided to just use the sub1500s in their 2.5cuft sealed boxes as the 4th driver of my L212 towers. I re-veneered all the boxes with Ash and stained them black.
I this room, putting the subs in the same spot as the L212s puts them in the room's hot spots, as far as max bass output goes.
In place the the L212's original bases being attached to the bottom of the towers the top of the sub(3/4" Ash) are bolted to the L212s and then the sub tops are bolted thru the sub's double mdf top.
Here's some pics.

[toddalin]

Hi guys :D

I'm fully interested in the sub1500 driver but this one is not sold anymore (i live in europe) :banghead:

Have you ever compared the JBL TIK sub (sub1500) to the revel Performa B15 (a similar 15" driver) ? do they perform the same ?

Is JBL still selling such woofers like the sub1500 (down to 20 hz in a 70 liters sealed enclosure like the TIK sub)?

Do you think the JBL W15 GTI (car woofer) performs as well as the sub 1500?

Cheers ;)

I have a W15GTI and 2235 mounted in the same cabinet (different equal chambers). The W15 is a sub driven by a Crown PSA-2XH in bridge mode (about 800 watts at 12 ohms) and kicks big time! The 2235 is used in my center channel (with LE175/075). The 2235 is slightly more efficient across the band, but W15GTI produces about 4-6 dB more bass at 20-35 Hz than the 2235 and can still be used out to about 1,000 Hz, if so desired.

http://www.largescaleonline.com/eimages/lsolpics/Team_Member_Pics/toddalin/center-2235-w15gti.jpg

[grumpy]

Hi MJC, nice setup and thanks for the pics. With your SUB1500's in 2.5ft3
boxes where's your crossover, slope(s) and are you happy letting the room
reinforcement perform your LF EQ? -grumpy (sorry if I've missed previously
reported details).

[MJC]

Hi MJC, nice setup and thanks for the pics. With your SUB1500's in 2.5ft3
boxes where's your crossover, slope(s) and are you happy letting the room
reinforcement perform your LF EQ? -grumpy (sorry if I've missed previously
reported details).
The H/K AVR635 is controlling the crossover to the subs @ 80htz from the mains and surrounds and 60htz from the center. For LFE the xover is 120htz. I can run it with the eq either on or off. Usually on.
Where the position of the 'towers' are also the hot spots in the room for max bass output @ the seated position, as determined by pink noise to a sub with the sub at the seated position.
The setup gives plently of bass for movies and also sounds great for music.

[mikebake]

Bump for a classic thread...

#1 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=15583&postcount=1) pangea (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=409) vbmenu_register("postmenu_15583", true);
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Stockholm Sweden
Posts: 485


Jbl Sub1500 15" Subwoofer 4 Ohm
Hi!

I don't know if this is interesting or not, but I found this ad at parts express, if anyone is looking for a JBL sub.

JBL SUB1500 15" SUBWOOFER 4 OHM
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshow...021904-299-750 (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=299-750&orefer=esf021904-299-750)

BR
Roland
Senior Member



JBL 1500



Looks like the car version of the 2226G



02-19-2004, 01:30 PM #3 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=15592&postcount=3) Alex Lancaster (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=234) vbmenu_register("postmenu_15592", true);



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It is interesting, anybody know more?




Alex.
#4 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=15594&postcount=4) Mr. Widget (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=3) vbmenu_register("postmenu_15594", true);



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I haven't loaded BBPro on my new computer yet, but I would love to check it out. That looks like quite a sub.







http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 02-19-2004, 03:15 PM #5 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=15600&postcount=5) TimG (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=111) vbmenu_register("postmenu_15600", true);



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Dude, that isn't a car sub, that is the 15" driver from the Revel Ultima 15 sub, made by JBL for their Harmon parent company. It looks like a modified 2227 motor, but it has more xmax than any current JBL 15. It would make a great sealed box sub with some equilization.




http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 02-19-2004, 03:52 PM #6 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=15601&postcount=6) Mr. Widget (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=3) vbmenu_register



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Tim,




Are you sure that is the Revel Ultima sub? I've heard them and they are phenomenal.




Widget


02-19-2004, 04:20 PM #7 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=15605&postcount=7) JuniorJBL (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=609) vbmenu_register



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Here is a link to a site in french?



http://www.audioclub.it/audio/prodot...elsub15le1.htm (http://www.audioclub.it/audio/prodotti/REVEL/revelsub15le1.htm)



It does look like the 2227.



Very cool!





02-19-2004, 04:24 PM #8 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=15606&postcount=8) JuniorJBL (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=609)




New JBL's



I would really like to see the new JBL 15" and 18" 2256 and 2258



woofers from the Vertec series!





http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 02-19-2004, 05:05 PM #9 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=15609&postcount=9) mikebake (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=50) vbmenu_register("postmenu_15609", true);



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Hmmmmm, I'm almost buying the sales pitch, as in "buy now as they are the last of them".........whaddaya guys think about this driver???



Widget??



Subwoof??



Giskard??



et al???





02-19-2004, 06:58 PM #10 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=15621&postcount=10) Mr. Widget (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=3) vbmenu_register("postmenu_15621", true);



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Just installed BBPro and ran the numbers.:cool: No wonder those Revel subs sounded so good. The group delay is not as good as the 2235H or 2245H so it will not have quite the transient response, but boy does it have LF extension!




I am very tempted.....:hmm:




One of the cool things about them is that they will go deep in a fairly small enclosure. I just called and they have 400 left. Sorry guys I may just take all of them.:D



Last edited by Mr. Widget : 02-19-2004 at 07:04 PM.





http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/statusicon/post_old.gif 02-19-2004, 07:08 PM #11 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=15623&postcount=11) Guido (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=117) vbmenu_register("postmenu_15623", true);



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I'm jealous!




This is less than 200 Euros and It is sold only in the states :banghead:



__________________



4425's + 250ti's on Aleph 30 Mono's + 4313B's



4435's on ALEPH 2 Mono's





02-20-2004, 08:21 AM #12 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=15663&postcount=12) TimG (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=111) vbmenu_register("postmenu_15663", true);



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Here is what it looks like in a 4 cu ft vented box tuned to 25Hz. Please don't buy them all, I need to pick up some overtime.



Attached Imageshttp://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=2050&stc=1&d=1077283269




02-20-2004, 09:35 AM #13 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=15665&postcount=13) 4313B (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/member.php?u=15)









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Quote:



Originally posted by mikebake



Hmmmmm, I'm almost buying the sales pitch, as in "buy now as they are the last of them".........whaddaya guys think about this driver???



Widget??



Subwoof??



Giskard??



et al???



It's a very nice VLF transducer Mike. Loads of moving mass, something JBL has seemed to have moved away from these days. I question an SPL rating of 94 dB. I guess it's worth my while to try and get more info on it.

[mikebake]

In praise thereof. Still impressed. Listened to them a couple of hours last night, mostly movies. There when you need them, not there when not needed.
Would love to hear the W1500H.

[Mr. Widget]

Yep... a phenomenal woofer. For music I find it is best used as originally intended in it's Revel guise... in a small over damped alignment with a bit of EQ boost. Some of the very best bass I have heard is this configuration using a Velodyne SMS-1 digital crossover/processor. It won't play crazy loud like this as it will run out of Xmax at the uber low frequencies... the W1500 is improved in this regard, but running a pair or more of them will usually take care of the problem. Probably the ideal would be to follow Dr. Floyd Toole's advice and use four of them, one at the mid point of each wall.

Unfortunately the W1500s are rather hard to get and the Sub1500s have been all gobbled up... if you can find a pair, I highly recommend them. Keep an eye out for the orange glue on the spider though. A few Sub1500s were incorrectly glued at the factory and need to be reglued before use.


Widget

[mikebake]

I still have a spare pair. With cash running low, I've been tempted to sell, but would possibly regret it later.........It's cheaper than a recone.

[Mr. Widget]

I have several spares myself... and when asked to part with them I have always said... no way! I am not too worried about blowing one up... I just want to have them for that next big project. Whatever it may be. :D


Widget

[baldrick]

Does anyone have the org part no for the SUB1500?