Backyard Box Building - The Build

[macaroonie]

Hi all at last I am ready to start building my final solution speakers. These will be a kind of L300 clone. This is a project that I have been fermenting for some time ie. about 25 years. I first heard L300s way back in the 70's and the sound signature stuck with me ever since , like an itch you cant scratch.
I know there are bigger and better monitors but space considerations come into the equation also.
The purpose of this thread is to create a step by step guide to cabinet building using the minimum of tools and shop facilities, in other words the simplest easiest way that anyone with moderate skills can achieve a good result.
My project carries some quirks in that I am going to emulate the L300 cabinet but with different dimensions , hence the rounded corners will require more work than a standard rectangular box, however the build methods remain the same for both.
I would like this thread to remain clear of comments in order that the process is easily followed by anyone who cares to have a go , however I am open to any input along the way.
To that end please post comments and input on the other thread ' Backyard box building ' and quote the relevant page / post number.
I will also be calling on the expertise of the gurus at a later stage but that will come along as the build progresses. Here we go-------

[macaroonie]

This project is to emulate in general the model L300 a JBL classic if ever there was one. To that end I have the following components.

2 JBL 2235H 15" bass drivers
2 JBL 2380A Horn throats
2 B&C DE85ti Mid compression drivers
2 JBL 2405A Uhf ' slot ' tweeters
1 JBL M553 electronic crossover network

Apologies re the B&C compressors but this is Scotland and JBL pro components are not all that thick on the ground and most of the drivers that show up on ebay here have been worked hard. The units I have are brand new and their published response is similar to the JBL 2445 driver. At some time in the future I may make a switch.
The electronic crossover is here for two reasons. One it cost about the same as making a new passive from scratch and two I am a great believer in the dynamics and control afforded by such an arrangement. It relieves the amplifier of the messy business of handling that nasty passive network.
For any newbies here there are many referencies to this kind of arrangement in other parts of the forum archive. Stick with this and all will become apparent.

[macaroonie]

As I said this is the lo tech method . No CAD here sir nope.

[macaroonie]

I told you this was going to be plain Jane. This is a sketch of the general look of the speaker

[macaroonie]

This is the baffle layout. Since I am cramming a quart into a pint pot here the overall size is determined largely by the driver dimensions. I made a bit of a boo boo getting the 2380A throats in that they are somewhat taller than the old conical throat/ lens however the plus is that they extend lower and should integrate better with the bass driver. I will still use the 850 hz crossover point of the original as a starting point although the electronic crossover allows easy tweaking.

[macaroonie]

This is a detail of the top corner that mimics the original L300. Standard box builders can ignore this.

[macaroonie]

This is a detail of the bottom corner. It does not have to accept the glass as the top does so is much simpler

[macaroonie]

General dimensions

[macaroonie]

As I said the plan is to use the least tooling possible specifically a Circular saw and a good quality Router. Beyond that only hand tools like a small plane screwdrivers etc and probably a combi drill.
The circular saw will be used to cut the panels and from there on most of the work will be acomplished with the Router.
Newbies to this may not be familiar with Routers and should have a look arond the web to get some starter info. I'm sure there are video tutorials available as downloads just to get an intro but as a brief description a Router is a rotary cutter running at high speed with SHARP ! cutting tools of varied shapes. This allows you to cut slots curves and edge profiles. A router is an enormously versatile tool with many uses BUT if not used with care they can at least mess up your work or at worst mess up your fingers. In the main guide bars or roller guides on the cutting tip will keep the tool where it is supposed to be. More on this once I get started.
Pics are 1 Router 2 close up of a roller guided round off cutter above an edge that it previously cut. In use the cutting tool is spinning at about 20000 rpm. The secret is to not try to cut too much at one time. EASY DOES IT and to do test cuts before you hit your workpiece.

[macaroonie]

My preference when building cabinets for speakers is to use a hardwood ply or marine ply. however there seems to be a worldwide shortage of plywood these days so I'll be using 3/4" baltic birch for the baffle and back, suitably braced and 1" for the top bottom and sides. The 1" is necessary to allow the corner radius.
As has been discussed in the forum before although MDF is a treat to work with from a cutting and machining point of view the dust by product is plain nasty. Balic Birch ply is a joy to work with and is as near to MDF in working characteristics.
In this case I plan to post veneer the boxes mainly because of the rounded corners , The L300 almost uniquely has the veneer grain running horizontally.

[macaroonie]

Sheets of plywood generally come as 8ft x 4ft. Because of this you have to map out a cutting plan in order to get the most from your sheet and to avoid unnecessary cuts. If you have a look at the sizes of commercial boxes you will be able to spot dimensions that are just less than a subdivision of a sheet. ie. 23.5 " gives you 2 panels across the 48" sheet.
Since I am using two different thicknesses of ply I am not under any real pressure for usage although the 1" sheet does have to give me 4 sides and 2 tops and 2 bottoms. The depth of the cabinet is to be 15.75 ( a small change from the original sketch 5 above ) This is to give me 3 planks as it were 8ft x 15.75". This then gives me all the pieces and leaves a decent chunk for future use. If you try to do this across the sheet you land up with a lot of silly offcuts.
It is worth spending a little time with a pencil and paper to figure out a cutting plan.

[macaroonie]

I had intended to start cutting today but we have RAIN. :banghead:

[macaroonie]

Well we have been having the worst spell of rainy weather of late and any time I get some spare time , well down it comes.
As it happens the work I have been doing lately has allowed me to snatch some pics of routing in action.
What we have here is a kitchen island worktop in solid oak block. It is getting a cutout to take an undermounted drainer. The first picture shows the router with a trepanning bar, basically a rod that has a pointed pivot in the center.
The wingnuts on the router base allow infinite adjustment. You will see the relevence to loudspeaker cutouts here.
I am cutting wood away on the underside of the panel to allow the drainer to locate. This diameter is larger than the cutout as seen from the top so the sheet is flipped over and the final cutting is done from the top but at a lesser diameter.
There is a small pilot hole drilled right through at the center that gives you center from both sides.
The closeup of the cutter shows a straight flute ie' parallel type. The cuts are fairly gentle approx 1/16" at a time. Any more than that and we have screaming and burning.
The last cut from the top before the block is completely removed is a fractionly larger diameter ( no more than a whisker ) to give a clean up on the walls of the cut. This is done very gently in this case because I don't want any scorching on the walls of the cutout.
As you can see in the finished picture I have chased around the top edge with a 45deg guided cutter ( has a roller bearing on it ) .
This is more or less the same procedure that we would use in making a cutout for a speaker where the driver is recessed into the baffle.
We had a total downpour last night here but it seems to have cleared the skies somewhat, so we might get to chop up some plywood tomorrow.
This is going to be done in my backyard, as it says on the tin.:D

[macaroonie]

OOps the pics went up in the wrong order, no matter.
You might have noticed in the closeup pic that the wood is tearing slightly at the edge. This can happen and in this case it occurred because the wood is oiled as it comes from the factory.
That was a brand new cutter. oak can be a bit chippy in any case

[macaroonie]

A fine sunny day at last so we can get some slicing done.
Backyard as promised two 2x4s to work on. Crude ? yes !

[macaroonie]

A nice sheet of virgin baltic birch plywood 3/4"

[macaroonie]

Edge view of birch ply- note the fine veneers i think 13.
Second pic is of 1" hardwood ply that I use when available. It is very dense.
Third pic is of the 1" that I got for this project. Similar to birch but with a better face on one side and a crummy one on the reverse. This is not important as I am going to veneer when complete

[macaroonie]

The Gods of plywood are kind enough to supply their product with a very straight edge as standard , so we can use the edge of one sheet to guide the saw. The width of this is not important as long as it is not too skinny in which case it will tend to bow as you run along.
Say hello to our friend for today Mr RIPSNORTER.
Take care to mark up your cut evenly at both ends so that the remainder of the sheet is not skewed. 5-6" is plenty. Note the very essential SOLO Clamps
Cheap and effective the best ten bucks you will ever spend.
Set the saw depth to be just a little more than the material you are cutting say 1" for 3/4" material
Last pic , now we have a guide.

[macaroonie]

With our brand new straight edge we can now start to cut the material for the cabinets.
We have to allow for the offset of the saw blade INCLUDING the kerf or saw cut itself. As you can see in the second pic that offset is 42mm or 1 5/8" so this amount will need to be added to every size.
In this case we need 15 3/4" so add the 1 5/8" and that is your figure.
I'm actually doing this in metric and the numbers are 400mm plus 42mm.
BUT !!
we also add an extra 1/16" or 2mm because we are going to clean these panels up to a dead size at a later stage hence I am adding 44mm or in imperial 1 11/16". Remember that that figure is for MY saw with that particular blade so you will need to establish a figure for your own tool.
BUT !!
you must add on that extra little bit but no more than 3mm or 1/8"
So we now clamp up the guide and check your measurements TWICE

[macaroonie]

It is worth taking a small test cut to check your size. Ther is nothing worse than slicing up a sheet to the wrong size especially if it is on the small side.
Your timber merchant will love you and lots of new shelves for the garage.
As you can see from the tape I am getting 402mm which is ideal.
Make sure you are the same at both ends !!
If you want, a drywall screw in the middle of the guide will ensure that it will not bow,
Now cut the panel

[macaroonie]

If you recall my comments about planning your layout I figured these long cuts to be the most economical.
Now we have two lengths at 402mm and one that is 408mm.wide.
The wider plank is not a concern to me since I know that the grading process will allow me to reduce that to the correct size. Not really worth the extra saw cut to whip off 5mm ( 3/16 " )
My cutting plan gives me two sides and one top or bottom from each plank
so I will double up the two equal planks and mark up for the cross cuts.
Same proceedure as before. Add on for the saw PLUS 2mm (1/16" )
The saw depth has to be increased but only enough to just get all the way through.
You must take care to even up the two panels with respect to each other. If you are uncomfortable doing this just do one at a time and follow the same method as before.
Take a wee test cut just to be sure.
You can see that I am getting 34 7/16" ie 1/16" more than the dead size but we are going to grade the size later so that is perfect.:)

[macaroonie]

The completed cross cuts.

[macaroonie]

So far we have 4 sides and 2 tops and are left with that slightly oversize plank
so two more cuts are needed to get the 2 bottoms. The oversize will be reduced later.

[macaroonie]

Same as before always check your sizes and add on as before.
Pic 2 A little taste of what is to come.
Pic 3 The completed bundle. The two odd bottoms are marked

[macaroonie]

This is inevitable but our next steps will remove this. Not a problem.
Now we can say goodbye to Mr RIPSNORTER.

[macaroonie]

Now we move on to our old pal the Router. This will be used in the first instance to grade or size the panels. By using a fixed fence or guide and by passing every panel through the cutter without changing the set of the fence then all the panels will come out exactly the same.
The edges will be cleaned up in the process.
Most routers can be mounted in this fashion some have large base plates to allow this and there are also router tables.
Remember I am doing this down and dirty. An ideal candidate for this is an old cafeteria table, the type with laminate on the top. You may have to sort out the mounting arrangements for the router but at the end you want to have plenty of space or surface around the cutter particularly if the panels are large.
We are using a 2" straight fluted cutter here 12.7 mm diameter. Best to get a nice new one for this. The one in the pic is a beater and should go in the bin

[macaroonie]

This shows the cutter and its direction of rotation. It is VITAL that all the passes of material are in the direction shown. If you try to go the other way the action of the cutter will pull the workpiece away from you and probably chew it up. Try a couple of test pieces from your offcuts so that you get a feel for the process. We should be in good shape coz all our panels are 2mm over so a couple of fine cuts on opposing sides will get us dead to size.
BUT!!! Remember this is a fast spinning sharp thing. NO KIDS ANYWHERE NEAR THIS. NO LOOSE CLOTHING TIE HAIR BACK IF IT IS LONG. SWITCH ON CUT YOUR PIECE AND SWITCH OFF!! you will want to have a dust brush available to keep the table clean as dust between the fence and the workpiece will alter the size
I will elaborate on this as we get into the next phase
This is my last for today time for a few brewskis :D

[macaroonie]

forgot the picture:o:

[macaroonie]

Any questions or comments can you fire them into ' Backyard Box Building' and not his thread. Ta I will field them as they appear

[macaroonie]

I have been trying to be true to spec here and build these in the yard but we have been having the wettest summer especially at the weekends. So I have taken shelter in my small garage.
Anyway to summarise we have made a plan and established sizes, worked out a cutting plan and cut our panels.
Remember though that the sizes of the panels are about 1/16" over what we want.The main reason for this is that we are going to use the router table to regularise the dimensions. The other reason is that the rip saw does not really cut a true straight edge - the blade will waver slightly as it cuts plus you get swirls if you pause during cutting.
The next step then is on to the router table-------

[macaroonie]

Ok what we have here is a nice new sharp cutter and as a treat to myself I have used the offcut from the birch sheet as a new top surface

[macaroonie]

Under cover as you can see. As in a previous pic you can see the direction of rotation and the direction of the workpiece.
IF THIS IS NEW TO YOU I WOULD RECOMMEND TRYING OUT ON A FEW BITS OF SCRAP FIRST
It is important that you do not get greedy and only take a whisker off at a time

[macaroonie]

Here is a series of pics of the cutter in use. I made a big boo boo though as you can see. I was trying to push the material through with one hand and take a pic with the other. As you can see in the third pic the tool is already starting to dig in and then in pic 4 -- mayhem:banghead:. Not staged i can assure you. The moral of the tale is keep two hands on the workpiece. There is a way out of this and that is to set up a guide on the far side of the cutter actually a jockey wheel or roller would be ideal. this would be set in such a way that the material cannot move towards the cutter.
WATCH YOUR FINGERS !!!!!!!!!!!!!! and!!!!!!!!!

[macaroonie]

So having quickly chopped up another piece to replace the cock up I have processed all the long edges and reduced the size to 15 3/4".
The best way to do this is to pass all the bits through and make a new stack and then pass them through cutting the opposite edge but at a slightly smaller size. Remember just a whisker at a time. If you are doing this you may notice some parts of an edge may not have contact with the tool but that is ok because as you gradually reduce down to the desired size those low areas will come in to contact. Eventually you will get down to a dead size with all of all the edges having been cut and straightened.

What I have done so far is to even up the depth dimension of the tops, bottoms, and sides. It is not necessary at this stage to do anything to the top and bottom edges of the sides but the tops and bottoms now need to have the width graded to our dead size. This is by a happy coincidence the same size as the width of the baffle and back.

[macaroonie]

If you read the beginning of this thread you will notice that the point is to do this with the most basic tools.:(
I am fully aware of the Festo guide system.
Mods can you please move this and the last post over to backyard box building.
Ta much

[macaroonie]

Just an observation----- those pics in the last post show a cutting tool spinning at 20000 rpm and the dig camera has stopped it dead, :jawdrop::jawdrop:

[macaroonie]

The next step is to dead size the WIDTH of the tops bottoms and the baffle and back. We are looking for 17.5"

[macaroonie]

Just so you understand fully where we are going with this, the point about all this panel sizing is that when we come to cut the rebates all the panels will sit in nice and snug.
I am scratching my head at the moment as to how to display the rebate layout as an exploded diagram. Anyone who is a dab hand with CAD want to lend a hand here. PM please

[macaroonie]

Righty ho here we go - again. Now we are sizing the WIDTH of the tops bottoms backs and baffles.

[macaroonie]

So now we have most things dead to size barring two HEIGHTS namely baffles and backs AND the overall height of the sides.
I have sized the baffles and backs because they fit inside other panels but the side ends top and bottom are exposed. It is useful to leave them be and to trim them with a guided cutter once the box is built that way they are exact. As it happens for my purposes this is irrelevant since I will be rounding over the corners as per the L300.
It will be worth your while to have a look at the original sketches esp #3 for this.
Guided cutter in action is pic 2 here the roller picks guides the cutter

[macaroonie]

By now your panels should be looking all neat and tidy and square etc. some faces may well stand out as being scabby so they go inside the box and it is worth marking them.
It stands to reason that since every dimension has been proved the boxes will come out square and parallel.
It may seem a bit laborious at this stage but you will get in the swing of it. The sizing process pays dividends later on as the joints will just slip together.
Now we can start to move on to the jointing.
Next post.

[macaroonie]

One last comment, all that sizing business occurs because we are down and dirty, live in a swamp and do not have access to a good panel saw.
If you do have access then follow the principles nonetheless, We want widths the same heights the same etc.:)
The process thus far will allow you to make tidy BUTT jointed cabinets where you would glue and screw or pin the joints. from here on we are going to make things even tastier and stronger.

[macaroonie]

If you take a peek at the sketch posts at the start and one i will repeat here you can see that i plan to use a 1/2" rebate at the corners and not shown , the baffle and back are rebated into the sides and top/bottom.
Everything interlocks.
To achieve this we need to cut slots and rebates on the panels.
This is why the fluted cutter is 1/2" (12.7mm ) since a slot can be made with one cut.
It is crucial to do some test cuts on scrap offcuts in order to get the correct set of the tool with regard to the fence.
Look at the pics of my test piece in the next post

[macaroonie]

OK the previous post shows a slot being cut. It has to be in such a position that the face of the intersecting panel is not left hanging over the edge. you can use a piece of the ply as a guide but probably the best thing is to do a test cut of a couple inches and offer up the intersecting material to see how it sits. You will most likely have to adjust the guide fence.
The ideal is to have a whisker of the exposed edge proud of the face. Just enough to sand flush.
The other intersecting panel has to have a rebate cut and to do this the fence is moved in to just touch the cutter.
There is a little more to this when we actually cut the panels but in the meantime this is an example for youze to mull over.
I'm going off now to try to rustle up some sketches of the rebate plan.
Some of the cuts have to stop shy of the end of the panel.
You will see-----

[macaroonie]

Thanks for your patience as I put this together. As it happens the picture taking and editing plus all the posts takes a load more time than the actual woody business.
To summarise we have seen how to cut and size panels accurately and thus far we have only used a ripsnorter and a router and a measuring tape plus of course the BACKYARD.
With that info you can make accurate BUTT jointed cabinets, ie where the panels have no rebates or biscuits or locking mitres. If that is as far as you want to go fine you are set. You will need a set of sash clamps , a drill and suitable screws and glue.
The router will do all your driver cut outs as you will see later on.
I am assuming post veneering on all the variants of this thread.
So, onwards ----- now we have to do all the slotting and rebating to make all those nice tidy panels slot together.
I was going to try some diagrams to illustrate this but decided that pictures would be better.
For a simple rectangular box where the material is all the same thickness the slotting and rebating is really easy since all your depth setting is the same, however I am using two thicknesses of ply and aiming for L300 rounded corners etc so as you will see there is some added complication for my project.
The next entry is a clarification of the setting of the fence with respect to the cutter to achieve the right interface between joining panels.

[macaroonie]

This pic shos at the bottom the fence, in the middle the cutter with the blade at its highest point with respect to the fence and beside that a piece of the ply that will join to the slotted piece. At the top is a metal straight edge.
needless to say this is done with the router OFF !! To achieve this the fence is adjusted accordingly and then clamped for ALL cuts of this size.
If you look closely there is a tiny gap between the ply and the straight edge which means that the inner edge of the slot as we cut it is just a hair more than the ply thickness. This translates into a tiny excess of the exposed edge which we will later on either sand to flush or use the router with the guided cutter to do the same job

[macaroonie]

If you have a reasonable mental picture of the joints you will realise that the slots are receptacles for the rebates and as such do not need to run all the way to the edge of the panel. what we do need to do is stop short of breakthrough or else we will have a load of little square holes to fill. Not the end of the world I accept but this is the proper way. To this end we have to mark a stopping point as the cut is underneath the material. This could also be done with the router above the material as a freehand tool. in this case it will have its own guide or fence to set the position of the slot. Some folks may find this easier in as much as you can see what is happening.
Follow the pics

[macaroonie]

Just a note on this slotting process. The cutter will cut blind into material and i find it best to start about an inch from the far end and then carefully feed towards your end mark. This is the tricky bit because the cutter is trying to push the material OFF of the fence so keep a good grip on it. Think about the rotation of the cutter. Once you have that little bit done it is relatively easy to feed towards the near mark as if you were cutting a through slot only you stop short by about 1/4". Lift off by tipping the sheet off of the cutter .

[macaroonie]

In these parts the slots fly through. I have different slot offsets because I have secretly decided to treat the baffle in a different way

[macaroonie]

OK here is a test piece of the 3/4" birch intersecting with the slot on one of the sides. Note the slight excess of the red ply side. This is ideal and will be cleaned off flush later. This a test for the cut for the baffles and backs.
The height of the cutter is different for the 3/4 material than for the 1".
The fence has been moved in till it is just touching the cutter.
Next shot B & B's all with rebates
Next shot Back sitting snug in slot in base. As you adjust your test piece cutter depth you want to achieve a snug but not tight fit.

[macaroonie]

There is a little work to do on these. The little extensions of the slot need to be removed to allow the rebate and slot to intersect.
Lift the router height up a good bid and follow the pics. always have the material moving ON to the cutter --- The set WRT the fence is the same as for cuttting the rebate. ie in tight hence all these little lop off cuts are flush with the rebate cut. Nice and gently with these cuts.

[macaroonie]

Dont worry about all the rags at the edges they sand off way easily. Not a concern.
First pic is a base and a side interlocking.
If you recall we also have the bases/ tops sized to the baffles/ backs and have cut the rebates WITH THE SAME SET OF THE CUTTER so they are all even with respect to the sides with which of course they must intersect.
Next pic a base / side and back all standing up on their own.
Two sides etc

[macaroonie]

The first pic shows Top Bottom Baffle and Back all locked up nicely. No glue as yet these are only a push fit but importantly the concept of this construction is clearly visible at last.
We know from the efforts that we took that these panels are even in width and also that the rebate cut is the same all round because we did it with the same setting of the cutter. The sides then offer on to the rebates and will do so in a conventional box because we have done all the slots WRT sized DEPTH dimensions and height dimensions. Remember all that effort making heights widths and depths exact wrt adjacent panels.
Now I have given myself a little headache because I have to shoot the side 3/8" above the top edge. I have yet to cut my slots for the tops. I have marked them up manually taking my size from the inner edge of the baffle rebate.
Follow the pics pls

[macaroonie]

Looking good. Now dont get me wrong this is quite a technical process and I confess to having made a few BOO BOO's in particular as you can see I have overshot the slots towards the top on the inside of the sides. I may well have breakthrough when i come to round over the top edges. The visible bit in the 2nd last pic does not matter coz there is a 3/8" x 1" strip runs front to back that will cover it.
However there is the basic box standing up all by itself with NO glue or screws and better still I can see that the edges and joints are all going to shake hands as they should.
All the effort that went into the cutting and sizing pays off big time at this stage.
The next bit is more fun in a way coz now we are starting to see a proper speaker. Here is a list of the next stages with pics of course.

Bracing
Baffle Cut outs
Ports ( Zilch wake up )
Rounding off corners
Painting
Connectors
Filter Components ( Active set up here so not a full x/o ) ( Rob )
Veneering


See you soon its that time again.:)

ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS PLEASE LOB EM INTO THE PARALLEL THREAD

[macaroonie]

If you are working with 3/4" ply only it would probably be best to use a 3/8" straight cutter for all your slotting and rebating that way the lip is a bit beefier. I would still use a 1/2" flute like I have for all your edging/ sizing.

[macaroonie]

In the last post the box components are now all fitting and sitting nicely.
Next step is to start building things up starting with gluing up the top /bottom/ baffle/back.
Make sure that all the edges are true to its buddy and then using sash clamps or ratchet straps hold it all in place till the glue sets.
Watch out for slippage as the panels may want to slide out uf place on the viscous glue. Usually a tap with a block / hammer will put things back where they should be.
You can use a few screws here if you wish just remember to sink the heads a little.
Next step is to fix on ONE of the sides.
The reason for this is that any bracing that you intend to add should be done at this stage. Front to back is a good idea as is side to side.
Make sure your sizes are correct - but you can pick them up from existing parts of the box.

Pic 1 Three sides glued up
Pic 2 nice tight joins eh ?
pic 3 Gorilla glue seepage
Pic 4 Gorilla glue seepage
Pic 5 Rear brace being put in position
Marked area is where the compression driver will get some support.

A small note about gorilla glue. This stuff swells up like expanding foam but on a smaller scale. I quite like the behaviour of this stuff except that I did find one area of a joint where it had caused the joint to separate in spite of being strapped up. Caution is advised in this regard. Plenty of straps and protect your edges or the straps will crush them a little.

[macaroonie]

Here are some more of the rear brace. 1" ply from the wastage.
You can see clearly where the driver will locate.
This component is glued in place and then a few screws for good measure.

[macaroonie]

First pic in last post is wrong.
Here is the correct one

[macaroonie]

If you have made appropriate bracing then you are ready to attatch the other side.
For my purposes the rear brace is all that i am chosing to put in at the moment. The reason for this is that my design is neat to say the least and I am aware that some jiggling may be needed. Cant do that if the box is awash with bracing. As it happens it looks as if I will be using ferrite slots (2405) and these are a little bigger than the alnico version. As a consequence the baffle layout will move slightly .
I will be able to shoehorn in bracing once I have cut my driver holes.
Anyway on with the side.
It is usually a good idea to sand off the sharp edge of the rebate to prevent it gouging swarf down into the slot plus it makes location and starting this last piece considerably easier.
I have elected to use some screws to eliminate the glue expansion issue.
Not a problem with PVA incidentally.

Note I have started to fill the little voids and tiny gaps that are left.
No more Chinese plywood for me. Nice on the outside, crap on the inside.

[macaroonie]

Here is the router with the roller guided cutter being used to tidy up the small excess that we allowed on to the exposed edges. There is only about 1/32 here and an orbital sander would deal with it too but the router is quicker and more exact. Then sand.
The second pic is me sorting a mistake I made some while ago. I had had thoughts of a thicker baffle protruding forward of the front edge of the sides and had cut my slots to suit annnnnnnnnnd theeeeeeeeeen I remembered that the 2380 horn extends over on to the edge of the sides as you will see.
Actually its in the plans but its along time since I looked at them.
Theres a lesson in there somewhere.
Anyway I have lost 1/2" of overall depth. Not really the end of the world

[macaroonie]

This is the baffle that previously had a lip but is now cleaned flush as are all the exposed edges.
Note the tidy fit of the joints. This ALL comes from the early stages of cutting and sizing

[macaroonie]

These joints have not been filled at all.:D

[macaroonie]

From now on we are in the territory of Mini L300 with all the details.
Thus far I hope I have shown how with just a few tools that an acceptable level of box construction can be achieved.
If you go back and review what has been used so far we have

1 Ripsnorter
2 Good 1/2" Router
3 Tape measure
4 1/2 shank straight flute cutter for the router
5 1/2" guided trim off cutter for the router
6 Hammer
7 Sash clamps or ratchet straps

Not much really. :)

[macaroonie]

Here on is replica stuff plus commissioning the system as I had it in mind to start with.
The boxes are built in principle but are by no means finished so from here on in I will not be just quite as detailed about construction because this project is very specific as a L300 clone.
Anyone that wants to ask anything about whats going on ---------- other thread pls

[macaroonie]

Top detail. here are the little infills at the side of the glass.
I'm using oak flooring scraps for this but they will need reduced
Backyard action yeah

[macaroonie]

Whats this then ? new tools ? Yup a lekky plane which will reduce and even my top edge detailing to 10mm or 3/8" above the top. Screw heads MUST be under the scope of the plane or your blades are toast.
What the hell is that other thing ?

Answer it is a rounding over guided Router cutter with a 1" radius. As far as I can tell this is the rad. used on the L300.
It is a big cutter and will take some care in use because it could mess up the whole job. Oh it cost me £46 ie £6 per corner ie 12 buckeroonies yikes.

[macaroonie]

:shock::shock::shock:Top trim is on screwed and glued OAK yup . Most of the fill is done with 2 pack filler ( car body ) Not really much sanding needed to get everything ship shape.
The next stage will deal with cutting the mountings for the drivers/ horns and for this I will be more specific.
Just a note with regard to the driver cut outs, I have sufficient confidence to be able to leave this to this late stage on top of which I knew there may have had to be some adjustment to the layout.
I will take you all through this step by step:shock:

[macaroonie]

:)

[macaroonie]

A nice sunny day at last and I have a couple days downtime till the flooring contractors do their stuff at my work then its back to the grindstone.
Here is the box with the top trims reduced to size and tidied up.
The black spray is just to let me see any defects at the corners.
Fills are all done and sanding almost complete. Looking good I reckon.

[macaroonie]

Well here we are at last its driver time.
These are pics of my components laid up on the box just to let me get a look at the spacing and to check if any adjustments have to be made.
As it happens I will probably be using ferrite slot tweets and the magnet is a bit wider than the alnico version. As a result I have had to squeeze everything a little.
The HF is hard up against the top but because the horn mounts from the front and the tweet from the back and also because of the shape of the horn it allows me to bring these two units really close together.
I believe this to be a good thing acoustically in any case. Every cloud !
The woof is pretty much as planned but it is clear that there is no room for ports on the front.
I will get a nice sturdy brace across the baffle between the woof and the horn.
A small issue that popped up is that the horn mounting screws at the edges are right on the joint between the baffle and the side, so I will put a reinforcement inside to beef things up a little.

[macaroonie]

Way back in this tome you saw me cutting holes in a worktop. Well here is the real thing. The pics tell it all. Get your center CORRECT and make sure you are at the correct radius.
Do a little test piece and check the size --- twice, no errors here !!
A good tip is to support the center blank to stop it tearing off as you cut the last bit not the least of the reasons being that it could pinch the cutter as it drops potentially causing all sorts of mayhem.
Anyway driver is in as snug as a bug.:D

[macaroonie]

This is what we are looking for:applaud:

[DavidF]

These joints have not been filled at all.:D

Ah, that's such a good feelin'. Right?

DavidF

[macaroonie]

:)

[macaroonie]

I have now cut the bass driver holes with the router and to save time I just used a jigsaw to cut the appatures for the horn throats. Not as tidy as using the router but since the mounting flange on the 2380 is so large I dont suppose it matters much.
Then we have the tricky problem of cutting a nice neat hole for the slot tweeter. Well Eureka JBL have provided a template onboard the unit ie the mounting flange.
The pic series will give you the idea using the top roller guided cutter.
This will plunge into material and then the roller will guide it around any template. The depth has to be set correctly so that the roller is in contact with the mounting plate.

[macaroonie]

But the mounting flange has to be screwed down in position. The mounting holes that are required to mount the HF unit are the same as the small screws that are used to secure the plate for the routing. Once the hole is cut then drill through the screw holes and countersink for the mounting screws.
The next pics are of the rounding over cutter with a temporary extension baseplate on the router. I had to fit this to allow the cutter to sit in the correct position and also to give some extra stability.
It all went very well considering the diameter of the cutter. Two passes did it and almost no break out at the end of the cut.:D

[macaroonie]

:)

[Krunchy]

Looking Real Good Mac! :applaud:

Between this thread, Rich's 4333a thread and Mr. Riessen's various (including the Zilch Cloth Installation) threads you guys have really given us a lot to think about. Invaluable.

Thank you!

Fred

[macaroonie]

Better pics of the box and I have ordered my veneer.
I.m going to do it the hard way with raw leaves ie. unbacked .
Thanks to all who pitched in to my enquiry, but the veneer I want to use is not available in backed sheets anyway.
I will try out some samples on some 'dummy' rounded corners as that is the area that concerns me most.
I plan to try out Ricks method with PVA and also test some adhesive film.
We'll see what happens........:blink:

[macaroonie]

Here is the hole for the slot tweeter cut as I described earlier using the mounting flange as a template.
You have to roughly cut away the material ie without the benefit of the roller guide. This is only of any use when the roller can run on the inside of the flange. A little care will get you there and the end result is perfect

[macaroonie]

well I got started on the veneering.
Having studied the advice on this forum and having had a word with Rich in London I thought I would give things a go.
I got some adhesive film with my veneer and so with an old iron up at full whack I tried a few test pieces. Total crap. I dont know what the problem was but I just could not get that stuff to behave like a glue.
According to Rich it should melt up and almost behave like a liquid. Not for me no sir E bob. So on the phone to the supplier who tried his best but really got nowhere.
At the same time I had considered the PVA method as advocated by Rick but I was concerned since my veneer is unbacked. The moisture in the glue will cause the veneer to contort / distort. In any case I didn't have any to hand.
However in the meantime I had already done a test with Evostik 528 trade contact adhesive and was stuck solid.
So I thought in for a penny in for a pound and started mapping out my lay.
As you know I am cribbing the L 300 style and hence the veneers run front to back. Because the veneer is raw ie. unbacked it comes as it is cut from the log in my case about 11" wide by 12ft long.
This means that I need 4 pieces on each side. So I cut and paired leaves to sit in bookmatch order from the horizontal centre. You can read up about this on the Oakwood Veneers site.
Anyway a few hours later I have one finished and I must say I'm well pleased.
I will do a blow by blow on the second one but in the meantime here are some pics. The flash subdues the effect of the rays that you get in quarter cut oak, but in sunlight they really shine.

[macaroonie]

:D:D

[macaroonie]

:)

[saeman]

Looks wonderful and the rolled over edges look great too. I have thought about making something with the grain running laterally but just can't put my thoughts together.

Both wood glue and contact adhesive are useable with raw veneer. Without a paper or phenolic backing you just need to be careful not to apply too much glue and have it bleed thru to the face of the veneer. You may have found your receipe.

To clarify an earlier comment I made about my dislike in using contact adhesive where there are exposed veneer edges - if I can lift an edge loose with my finger nail then the bond is no good. That's my guideline and at exposed edges when I have used contact cement I can frequently get a finger nail between the veneer and base wood with very little effort and pry it loose. With a good wood glue bond this is not possible. Try this finger nail test along your long exposed edges and especially at every corner.

Rick

[macaroonie]

First point Mods could you please move the recent comments on this thread over to the comments thread.
Sorry Rick that was not aimed at you but my plan was to keep this one as a linear progression without interruption. With a bit of luck the high mucky mucks may feel this is worth keeping up as a sticky or as an archive resource that the nervous might refer to.

Anyway my only reservation about PVA other than that it has many iterations with different charcteristics is that if there is any spillage on to the front surface then future staining can be seriously compromised.
I was going to give it a whirl but was so frustrated by the film that I was keen to move on and get some kind of result.
I use that type of contact adhesive frequently and am comfortable with its behaviour.
My leaves of veneer were really flat and I felt that the warpage factor could get me in to all sorts of bother hence having done a nice wee test that really stuck down with minimal pressure I felt that I could proceed.
I primed both the box and the veneer with a thin smeared coat using a straight metal spreader and allowed both to dry. I then repeated the process the same way but just allowing a slightly heavier coating, just enough to look 'wet' and then allowed to dry.
Great care was taken not to have any globs of rubbery dubbery anywhere especially at the edges.
I did not use a notched spreader as I would have done for laminates or bonding sheet materials.
I have a very sharp hand plane that got my edges nice and straight .
That particular formulation ( Evode 528 Thixotropic ) will allow you to make contact ONCE !! and make an adjustment so set down was not a problem and the once the edge was in place i used nothing more complicated than a 3" wide piece of birch ply as a pusher down implement.
The rounded over corners were worked over the curve progressively until the veneer came on to the next flat surface.
The only niggle I had was at the bit where the glass sits where one of the veneers was wanting to be splitty as i trimmed it off with my sharp plane (Stanley No78 ) Anyway It all seems to have worked out.
Thanks nonetheless Rick, you do outstanding works and I have admired your results.

:)
The veneer sections were cut and then edged

[macaroonie]

Ok here we go lots of pics
Nice clean sanded and filled cabinet and in pic 2 we use a primitive straight edge to mark up a center line shown in pic3

[macaroonie]

I bought 4 matching leaves of veneer so I can get 4 more or less identical segments. This allows me to do bookmatched lay up , that is to say that there is a central line with a mirror image of matching veneer pattern on either side of that line.
My veneer has quite a pronounced pattern to it and there are as I said 4 of each bit.
Before you use any glue it is worth laying pieces on the face in position and look to see that you grain matches up if that is what you desire.
It is worth at this stage having a good idea approx where each piece is going to go. If need be mark them with white chalk.
My New glue

[macaroonie]

My leaves have a good machine edge on one side and a ratty edge on the other, plus the grain seems to become very straight in nature at that edge. I can afford to loose about an inch.
Measure mark and cut. Nice straight edge , the back of a saw is good for this.
Nice gentle cuts with a brand new blade until the piece comes away.
To true the edge I have a rebate plane. The series of pics should show the routine. Leave about 1/8 protruding and VERY gently run the plane along the edge. You will hear when it is cutting and when you hear the cut all the way along the edge it is then straight. ( this is with a whisker cut on the plane. no more ) Alternatively Rich has a method more or the less the same but sanding down to a straight metal edge

[macaroonie]

In the last pic it is wort mentioning that the planing does not continue down to the plywood clamps they are only a convenient way of holding the veneer.
The plane is mega sharp and really only taking half a hair at a time

[macaroonie]

The next step is to glue the box and the panels that are ready.
In the first picture you acn see that the box has been coated and I am applying glue to the first panel. I am using a flat spreader in order to achieve a flat film of adhesive rather than using a notched spreader which can tend to give slightly lumpy results. Two coats are applied to each surface allowing to dry in between coats. Try to keep any foreign matter out of here and any lumps that do remain need removed either by cutting off or by using solvent.
Good ventilation is advised during this process and also aids the drying.
You want a nice flat even coating.

[macaroonie]

With TWO coats of adhesive on both surfaces the first panel can be laid on to the box. Start at the center line and carefully line up one edge of the panel as shown. Like this the glue will not grab a hold and you can manoeuvre the veneer piece into the correct position. Once the piece is lined up run a finger along thefirst edge to make the glue grip and then progessively work the rest into position rubbing along the grain.
Do not just drop the piece down flat and then apply pressure as this will encourage the formation of air pockets
The idea is to roll the piece of veneer into contact and then apply pressure as you go.

[macaroonie]

Using an implement as shown go over the whole area starting in the middle and make sure that the veneer is well stuck down. Be careful at the edges as they have yet to be trimmed.
Do not use an iron or steel implement on oak as it can stain the wood.
Yo may hear little crackling noises, those are little air pockets bursting . Keep going until there are no more noises and the panel feels solid.

[macaroonie]

To trim the veneer I used a brand new blade and scored lightly along a straight edge. After a few passes the veneer is sufficiently cut that it will snap off easily downwards first and then up to snap clean off.
I left a tiny excess hanging over the edge which I then sanded to flush.
For a long grain edge ie where the grain is parallel to the edge I would not use this method. I would pre cut the panel to within 1/8 and the use the roller guided trimming cutter in the router or by hand using a small block plane.

[macaroonie]

The mirror image of the first piece is then attatched and trimmed in the same way. Remember to have all the joining edges cut and straightened before you stick them down.
The next few pics show the next piece being offered up to the existing work.
At this stage it is worth just aligning the grain details to make it seem as if the details run from one piece to the other. As it happens with this piece I dont have much to play with but there is one detail about 1/3 from the right that kinda joins up.
At this stage the new piece does not have any adhesive on it !!
In the second picture you can see that the joint is slightly open at the left and the right so it is off to the planing jig for a little tidy up.
If you think about it the middle section of the new edge is high with respect to either side and I would expect the plane to remove material from this area.
After a few gentle passes with the plane, checking each time , a good fit is achieved.

[JBL 4645]

macaroonie

Breathtakingly beautiful you’ve really taken you’re time on this look forward to seeing the last stages of you’re home DIY JBL project.
:applaud:

[macaroonie]

Ok here is the top leaf glued up and ready to go , I already tidied the edge so it now gets laid down as before and pushed on by hand up to but not over the rounded edge. Then the flat surface is pushed firmly with the pusher tool.
Only once that is firmly in place do I then start progressively working around the corner by using the pusher tool in a series of moves that gradually and evenly makes firm adhesion. Eventually the veneer will come around to the next flat plane/ surface and it is quite important that at this stage that the adhesion is progressive as before

[macaroonie]

Once over the top the flat area can be pushed firmly into place and then trimmed. The veneer on the corner is a little tricky to score but I just took my line for the edges and joined them up over the rounded bit leaving a little excess just in case. It sands off really easily ( 120 grit ) but be careful to sand towards the body of the cabinet.
Roughly trim off the excess and stand the cabinet up

[macaroonie]

Gently plane down to flush with the trim.
Look how fine the shavings are in that plane.
Sand off as required .

[macaroonie]

Well ladies and gents that is about it as far as woodwork is concerned. I need to go and give everything a right good sanding to get the surface smooth.
Raw veneer has a slightly rough texture as it is literally off the log.
I will end up with 320 grit and will be doing some staining to make the wood look old. I will need to do some testers for this to get the desired result. There are many ways to get a pleasing finish on wood with oil , many types of lacquer stain etc and the choice is up to you. In my experience there are very few if any one shot finishes so patience is usually needed here. This is the bit that will really make the end product a thing of lasting beauty
Anyway after that I have a few braces to put in ( common sense ) , fit the port on the back and make a base ( easy if you have got this far ). Oh yeah an input panel.
After that it will be wadding and then load up the drivers.
I will post pictures of the finished cabinets as soon as they are done with any other relevant details that pop up.
I will also post a detail of the total system and how it is running because remember it is completely active.
The end is near.

[macaroonie]

The tools used were as follows

1/2" shank router
Rip saw
Combi drill
Jig saw
Workmate /table
Hammer
Ratchet straps
Craft knife

I probably missed something

If you have any responses as usual can you put them in the other thread. Ta

[macaroonie]

Well it seems like I dug myself a hole again . It seems that to get the finish I seek I will have to ' FUME ' my cabinets. If you want to know more google 'Oak fuming ' It involves small tents, dangerous chemicals and duct tape. No kidding.!!!!!!!:blink:

[macaroonie]

Well it turns out that a girl that drinks in the Clachan is a furniture restorer etcso I took delivery today( at no cost I might add ) of 1 pint of Ammonium Hydroxide. So now I have to build a little tent out of plastc , duct tape and some 2x2. The process is as follows - speaker goes into tent with glass tray of said liquid and spends the night there. In the morning if all goes well the veneer will have taken on a pronounced OLD look mid to dark brown. The longer you leave it the darker it gets. After that you just finish in the usual way oil / lacquer / varnish / wax or whatever you fancy.
The big deal with this is that the rays in the veneer I have used do not react in the same way as the background wood and remain quite pale .
We shall see -- better living through chemistry as they say.

[macaroonie]

:D Think of this with some classy Zilchcloth.:applaud:

[macaroonie]

:barf:....?:D

[macaroonie]

Yup I got the strong stuff -- 25% and my expert says not a prob just watch what is going on. May have to re orientate speaker in the tent. Thanks for your input, its all welcome.

[macaroonie]

Well, its been a long road trying to get these bad boys to the colour that I wanted. The fuming process whilst seeming to be simple is undoubtedly a combination of experience and environmental factors, heat etc. The first exposure of 24 hrs rendered a colour change to that of milky coffee, but not dark enough. The wood goes a kind of murky grey but when 'wet ' it then adopts the character that we are all familiar with.
At this point I should mention that I tried all sorts of stains on little tester pieces as well as stain after fuming. None seemed to be getting the depth of character that I wanted.
Following a couple of posts from JBLOG I decided to apply the ammonia directly first in dilute form. This started to show results but still not deep enough so it was in feet first with full strength. Wow what a stink it would bring a tear to a glass eye.
Now i was getting somewhere but still a little shy of ideal. It seemed as if the colouration receeded somewhat once the application had dried off.
As it happens I had run out of Ammonia so after a fine sanding it was on with some very dilute spirit stain in a mixed colour to bring the tint into line.
All along I have been keeping a watchful eye in case the rays were getting subdued, but luckily there were no problems.
I am sure any of you that know your way around staining and finishing will know that treating oak in this way is a whole different world from for example oiling only on walnut or rosewood.
Anyway I have posted this for interest sake and I am fairly pleased with the result. It will take a few weeks till the wood settles down, it still looks too hot or new.
The finish after staining was rubbed on polyurethane satin lacquer 3x all round. This has the benefit of hardening the surface. I have yet to steel wool and then wax but will leave that till the finish cures.
The pics show clearly the rays and as you can see it matters where you view them from. The literally shimmer as you move around and this will get better once the are waxed.
Hope you like em

[macaroonie]

Here is a pic or two of side wall bracing. They are just stuck in with solvent based structural adhesive. In the uk Green tube Gripfill or Pinkgrip. Brill stuff that sets up like chewing gum and is as hard to remove.
I'm sure there will be an equivalent in the US and Europe

[macaroonie]

I have been contemplating the port issue for a while as you can see. The Balvenie tubes are 93mm and the Aberlour 10 year old is 82mm.
Due to the intended positioning of these speakers ie in a corner and fairly close to the back wall, I am concerned that the port on the back may excite some boomy resonance. On the other hand I do have some room left either side of the slot tweet so i could use 2 x smaller dia. My concern in that position is just as simple as air blast from the ports messing up the HF.
At a push there is also just enough room for 2 x down below the woof.
Need to scratch the old head for a bit.
Here is a can of worms whilst we are on the subject, has anyone ever investigated using two ports of differing lengths, the idea being to spread the resonance over a wider band ? Alignment wizz's to the rescue on that one, I have not really thought it through it was just a stray thought.

[richluvsound]

Mac ,

I hope you dont have to empty those first.

Waiting for Aquaplas. Its coming this weekend .

Nice job on the cabs by the way.

:applaud:

Rich

[macaroonie]

Not quite there yet as far as finish is concerned. Wool n wax as they say in Barnsley eccky thump. I'm starting to load up now------ watch this space

[loach71]

Mac ,

I hope you dont have to empty those first.

Waiting for Aquaplas. Its coming this weekend .

Nice job on the cabs by the way.

:applaud:

Rich

Hey MAC is a SCOT -- those tubes are "emptied" before they get home from the liquor store... HEH HEH HEH

[macaroonie]

:D

[Krunchy]

Looking Good Mac, Looking real good! How do they sound?
Are ye putting grilles on those bad boys or what, dont see any grille pegs hence my curio.
Nice job!

[richluvsound]

Addy baw bag,

wink wink is the post . Hope you like the colour. Sorry ,I dont do tartan:D

Rich

[JBL 4645]

macaroonie

Wicked finish mate :applaud: that looks super grand, how do they sound with music and films, what SPL db they give.

[macaroonie]

Its been a while I know. All the little details take time especially with a one off so here are some more pics to bring things up to date.
Cutting appatures for input panels, done with the same method as the hole for the slot tweet. You have to make the template manually and then you can copy out as many holes as you like. In this case the six mounting holes gives a location for the threaded inserts and socket screws that mount the input panel. Once the main hole is cut the same template can be used to set out the input panel and everything will line up

[macaroonie]

I have used these throughout. I have no liking for T nuts simply because if they come loose inside the cabinet it is the work of the imps to get them unscrewed.
These are very positive in their action and good and strong.
I have used M6 all through which is more or less 1/4" . The countersunk socket head screws are a perfect fit in the 2380 horn.
You can use the horn itelf as a drilling template to get these located correctly- alternatively use the horn to mak up accurately and then use a small pilot drill to start with and then increase your size as needed.

[macaroonie]

Same methods but standard socket head screw.

[macaroonie]

Neoprene seal on horn flange

[macaroonie]

After a lot of searching I stumbled upon this nifty cable from a tour supply company. ( http://www.vdctrading.com/products.asp?SubSectionID=1&Page=2#p14 ) Its called classic black tour grade speaker cable. 6 x 2.5 mm
Remember my set up is to be fully active so I need to connect 3 amplifiers per side. I had looked at using a 4 core cable with a common negative but concluded that that might have been asking for trouble within the amplifier itself.
Last pic you can see the cabinet with wadding installed. I used a cable tacker to keep it all in place.
I am waiting for binding posts to show up so in the meantime I have rigged it up (one only ) with the cable popping in through the port.
Talking of which I finally decided to put the port on the back , mainly because the baffle is so tight for space the port would almost certainly interfere with the grille.
I used the 93mm Balvenie tube at 105mm long gives me the curve shown tuned at 30Hz ( WIN ISD ) I would welcome any input on this from folks with greater experience in these matters. The port can easily be changed.

[macaroonie]

The principal elements of my set up are shown below.

Tascam CD01 u CD player

Crown SL2 preamp ( bought from Subwoof )

JBL M553 crossover ( ebay from Grass Valley in CA. )

Rotel RMB 1066 power amp. 6 x 65w ( only )

Once this is all in place and running other bits and bobs will get patched in.

[macaroonie]

Well the big day came at last, but first let me lay out a few aspects of the set up that are of influence.

The Crown Pre is really good and quiet too but it does have a high overall output. The power amp has tweakers on the inputs but I still feel that the o/p of the pre could use some padding.

The crossover is more or less made for this job with a few proviso's.
First the upper crossover frequency as standard does not accommodate the 2405. This can be altered and there is discussion of this here http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14471&highlight=m553 The other shortcoming is that it does not carry delay for time alignment. On the positive side there is pre-emphasis onboard to equalise for 2380 series horns. The x/o ferquencies are easily dialed in and the controls are logicl and easy to use. Nice XLR connectors all over the back panel. Where the cables become RCA Phono I have unbalanced the connection at the phono end.

The Rotel Power amp is pretty neat for this application. I had its predecessor in use in the family pub running 2x B380 4x control 1 via a Bx63. Both of these allow you to bridge any pair of amps so in that mode you get 1 x 130w and 4 x 65w. Well I can tell you we had some raucus nights with no problems at all.
In my new set up the rmb 1066 is in 6 channel mode, ie each driver gets its own 65w amp section. Now for some of you American chaps this may not seem much but remember that there is no insertion loss here so straight off the bat that little 65 is worth a good deal more. Second because each amp section is only handling a limited bandwidth, then it has a much easier time of things.

So how did it go ? -----------------
Well , I have only rigged up one so far just to prove the system. I have no passive components downstream from the amp so it was hooked up and tentatively each amp/driver section was run up to a working volume and then backed off to a trickle. Bit by bit I dialled in a presentable sound and listened for a while to my favourite Calum Kennedy track ' Dark Lochnagar ' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Swqe55QgOk&feature=related)

Now at this stage remember a few things. Preamp is running in MONO ( yuk )
the drivers are cold , the woofs have not been run since I refoamed them , the compression driver is brand new and needs run in and I do not as yet have a scooby what is what with respect to phase. I think the woofs are red = forward as are the comps but the slots are red = backwards. so it should be
woof -- in phase mid -- reverse slot --reverse.
Just for simplicity I started with everything +++ so my first change was to flip the mid. This gave a positive improvement but along the way I have been tweaking the x/o frequencies a little also.
Now bear in mind I have no measurement tools other than my ears.
Conclusion-- As the system warmed up and as things got dialled in I am pleased to tell you that thus far I am delighted. The woof is sounding great with no boom just tight and extended with the authority that is the trademark of JBL. The horn is not squawky and is really not beamy either. I had a bit of a time messing with the levels and x/o between the horn and the slot and to be honest I think I have to flip the slot. I will try this when the other speaker is rigged up.
Anyway I found a new way to get to the pub..... a little reggae music and this will blow me right out the window and down the street. Compared to my 4315's there is so much more ready gain or headroom. wow dB max who cares its way more than I could ever use and I do have neighbours.
I think I am nearly in the zone. Just have to build some grilles.

[macaroonie]

I know that some of you have trodden this path many times before, and lets face it all I have done so far is to build a working box for the woofer.
I would welcome any input or constructive criticism regarding the technical aspects. I know that most folks advocate the use of protection caps on the MF and HF. I can see why but this amp is brim full of fast o/p protection and I feel I can pass on that subject unless a convincing case can be made.
Should there be any other response shaping in there.
The B&C driver is as near as dammit a copy response wise of a 2445 and was picked out for that reason.
Does anyone have the phase thing down.?
etc etc
Otherwise:D:D:D:D:D:D

[indycraft]

What a great thread you have constructed........and great cabinets as well. This is an outstanding documented process to get cabinet maker quality without a substantial investment in cabinet making tools. Well done.

Thank you.

Indy

[DavidF]

"....I think I am nearly in the zone. Just have to build some grilles."

The "zone" has no boundaries, Macaroonie. Your speakers look like a project well worth the time investment. Interested in your impression of the horn/woofer integration over time. Always the concern to me in matching such drivers.

DavidF

[macaroonie]

Or at least this thread. I have had work and leisure commitments and have been cogitating on how to proceed with the finishing details of this build.
If you have followed this through you will be aware that the system is to run active. Asa consequence ther are 6 conductors going in to the cabinet.
There are several ways to do this, 3 normal speaker wires ( untidy in my opinion ) or a 6 way cable. As I mentioned before I sourced this nice OFC 6 way speaker cable from VDC in England. The next question was how to connect to the speaker cabinet itself.
Again choices. I could direct wire onto the drivers or use conventional binding posts or sockets .In the end for neatness I decided to use an Amphenol EP series connector with 6 pins. This has the advantage that there is no way that a cable can work loose and potentially short and also it is a one shot deal to disconnect. The contact performance of these is excellent also.

[macaroonie]

My front end components are going to be sited in an alcove some way away from where the power amp will be hidden ( in an old blanket chest or as we call it a kist ). The JBL M553 x/over provides 3 outputs per channel ie. Bass Mid and Treble. For the same reasons as with the speaker cable I found an 8 way professional multicore from VDC. They do not do a 6 way so I will discard 2. This cable has to go down through a cable chase and then under the floor to the other side of the room. You can see the size of it in the pics. The individual screened conductors are quite fine but that will not be an issue in balanced mode.

[macaroonie]

Well here we are at the end zone. I have spent a while staring at the boxes with no grilles attempting to get a visual take on what would be right.
The proportions are quite different to the L300 being a bit narrower and about 4" taller. I had the feeling that a plain flat front would look too 'big' yet there is no obvious spot to make a natural split for a two part grille.
Here are pics of my solution thus far. The plan is to rout a slot across the cross bar and use a black cable or somesuch to jam the Zilchcloth into the slot as I cover the grille.
I'm about to tackle the corners. I queried with Mike Bottz as to his methods for this tricky little task. The thread is here somewhere.
More when they are done. :)

[macaroonie]

You may have noticed that these are not built in the same way as the originals. The first point is I do not have to accommodate the acoustic lens so the frame can be shallower front to back. However I wanted to keep some of the flavour of the original hence the depth they are (47mm ) rather than 75mm. I have taken some care to round off the internal edges to soften any sonic effects. This has the added benefit of giving the cloth a soft edge to pass over so there should not be any visible crease like you see sometimes.
You can see in the pics above where I have had to rebate the frame to accept the edge of the horn.
These are only glued and clamped, no screws.
I have had a little problem with warping but as the wood gets used to the indoor atmosphere all should be well.
This pic is the first of the corner rounding and the peg fillets. I have done the rounding by marking up directly from the cabinet at the back and by using one of our £2 coins at the front. I then used a sanding disc in my grinder to approach my marks and then finished off by hand using 120 paper over a block of wood. They look pretty good with the Z cloth stretched over.
I still have a lot of tidying up to do but am moving in the right direction.
These are tricky wee guys to get right

[macaroonie]

Well I finally got some time to fiddle with the grilles. These have been tricky and a lot of work but I bit the bullet and got tore in as they say. The awkward bit seemed to be the horizontal slot but actually that all went pretty easy. Pics are self explanatory. I gave all the sharp edges a gentle sand off by hand just to give the cloth a less sharp edge.
As always the Digital image has trouble with that blue cloth. Its overcast today so I will wait till the sun comes out and will whip one speaker outside for a good pic
The darker blotch is just a damp patch that got mucky don't worry

[richluvsound]

tidy work Mac ;)

Rich

[macaroonie]

As you well know this is what is called proto typing. It takes time thought and application. One wrong step and its over. Hey I know where the Boo Boo's are but I'm not telling.
I got the Zilch cloth adhesive thing down though if anyone is interested.

[chilledspode]

Hi Mac

Nice work!

I too, like the new avatar...

Cheers from across the pond

Mark

[macaroonie]

:)

[Russellc]

Absolutely gorgeous! Let's hear about installation of the zilch cloth please!

Russellc

[Krunchy]

Absolutely gorgeous! Let's hear about installation of the zilch cloth please!

Russellc

I'll second that! Very Nice Mac!

[macaroonie]

If you have had a peek at the construction so far you will have noticed that the grilles are one piece and have a general shape and form that emulates the look of the 300 grille. However to alleviate the bulk somewhat , as JBL did in some of the 43xx monitors, I elected to create a split horizontally.
Trouble is that there was not really a suitable space to allow the grilles to be in two separate pieces, or at least not where I figured the best visual option was.
Hence the slot across the grille in the above pics.
It had been my plan to use a piece of wire with the insulation on to jam the fabric into the slot but as it happened this was not necessary.

Proceedure was as follows. : Glue is that spray adhesive that carpet fitters use. NOT the fine stuff that you can use for mounting photos ( 3M T fix ). The stuff you need is the kind that sprays out in a kind of fan shape from the nozzle and lands on the target as a lacy pattern . It looks creamy colour to start and then goes clear.
What you have to do is mask any areas that you do not want covered with sticky. Quite important to do this. On the back of the frame you want to leave 1/2" for your adhesive so mask accordingly. In my case because the edge of the frame was quite deep It got some adhesive mainly to reduce the pull on the back side.
For my slot I gave it 2 coatings at fairly close range right down into the slot.
On the back of the cloth in that area ( masked ) it got a light coating. It is important to let this stuff tack up whereupon it behaves like contact adhesive.
All the other areas that need adhesive get coated before you fix the cloth. Two coats is good if you are careful, and a light coat on the cloth if you can map out where you will need it. Do not overdo the coating on the cloth it does not need it and you do not want seep through. LET IT SET UP A BIT BEFORE YOU HANDLE IT
I fed the cloth ino the slot first starting in the middle and working outwards.
It was forced down as far as poss and over the side edges before any attention was paid to the main panels. It was at this point that i discovered that the wire was not needed as this type of glue grabs a good hold.
From there on it was pretty easy, stretch to the corners first, but not too tight and then gradually work away from the corners stretching so that a flat fit is made. The adhesive will allow a couple of adjustments if needed and also if it is easier to get everything flat you can do a mitre at the corner back. This will take out a segment roughly 45 deg thereby allowing the fix along the straight edges to be simpler. Do have a fresh blade in your craft knife and if it helps use some release paper to prevent things sticking where you dont want them.
Actually that glue will grab a hold without leaving a residue as long as it is not pressed too hard and as long as it has been allowed to tack up . You can leave that stuff quite a long time without it loosing its grabby properies.
Once you are in place and happy apply firm pressure where the glue is esp. along the back edge, and then trim to a neat finish.
Clean up is with zippo lighter fuel or similar. Probably best to do a little test piece just to get a feel for it.

I used to make temporary air locks for the asbestos removal people. This involved wooden frames with plastic sheeting over all stitched up with this stuff. Sprayed on both surfaces there is no way it would come apart.
If you want duct tape to stick forever spray this on your target area and then use your tape. Never comes off.

[Doc Mark]

Greetings,

WOW!!! I am gobsmacked by the quality and detail of your work Sir!!! Makes me want to burn every cabinet I've ever cobbled together!! :(:D:applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud: Outstanding tutorial, Sir, and thank you, very much, for sharing it with everyone!! Wonderful, simply wonderful!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

[Russellc]

Yes, A1 for sure. Thanks for the cloth tutorial!:applaud:

Russellc

[macaroonie]

I really hate that stinking flash on that camera, It just washes out everything. Ihave on occasion put a little toilet tissue over the flasher. This seems to subdue the harshness somewhat. My buddy has a Nikon dig SLR. I'll see if I can get him to have a go. The pics are not natural at all particularly on the wood which has now picked up a nice deep lustre. That hot look when they were first finished has settled down nicely. They will get a final wax with proper beeswax and that as they say will be that.

[macaroonie]

I truly look forward to seeing the results of my efforts in putting this together.
I have my tangible reward but lets see what you folks can achieve.
PICS PICS please, c'mon Russell what are you up to and all you others.
Anyone who has a wrinkle on the way please PM me i will try to help as best as I can.

[Chas]

Thats alright, I'm sure Mac wouldnt mind sharing it with some girls :D
What does she say about Bud-Weisse/er beer?


Um..ah...I'll have to plead the fifth out of respect for many of my American friends, here.:o:

[Russellc]

I truly look forward to seeing the results of my efforts in putting this together.
I have my tangible reward but lets see what you folks can achieve.
PICS PICS please, c'mon Russell what are you up to and all you others.
Anyone who has a wrinkle on the way please PM me i will try to help as best as I can.

OK, this friday the 2225Hs are going to the reconers to be converted to 2235H. Crossover parts are ordered, and work will commence. I have been side tracked on cab building b/c I snagged a JBL 4647 pair and have been using them for bass bins for various projects. Its a cool box I may veneer using your techniques. Its 5 cu ft and has four ports. With all open, its 40 hz, plug one, 34 hz (4430 range) plug 2 ports and its like a B 380 sub.

Right now it has a JBL waveguide ( only 9.90 from JBL pro parts) and a selenium 220 ti compression driver and a crossover designed by Zilch and Jackgiff over on the AK forum "econowaveguide" thread. This simple inexpensive combo is kicking major arse!

the coolest developement is that I may aquire a new house that has a killer "speaker room" (2 actually) in the basement, and it has a nice sized shop right off it....too bad I'll be broke, so Im aquiring everything I'll be needing project wise NOW! Pics to follow, I'm at "work" now.



Russellc

[macaroonie]

:applaud::applaud::applaud:

[Russellc]

:applaud::applaud::applaud:
I'm thinking of finding a small tweeter horn box to veneer first, as this will be my first attempt at such. I guess I could build some 1/2 cu ft boxes for some 2123Hs I have on hand, in case I want to try 3 way.

Russellc

[Russellc]

Here's the 4647 with 2225H drivers. On top is the JBL waveguide ( inexpensive 9.90 one ) and Selenium 220 ti. This is one of the least expensive speakers I have personally owned in a LONG time, it really sounds good for what it is, I kid you not! Based on a thread in another forum by Zilch.

Zilch told me that eventually he will do it with the JBL 2425H, and I will install that driver then, making it an all JBL system, except the crossover of course.

A7 for size comparison. The 4647 is 5.0 cu ft I believe. It's a big ugly black box right now, but when I veneer it, and build a grill for it, will be prettier, I hope! Waveguide will be cut into the lower part of the face plate and the cabinet turned "upside down."

Russellc

[macaroonie]

So how does that compare against the A7 ?

[Russellc]

So how does that compare against the A7 ?

I love my A7s, I've been tweeking them for years and got them to sound fairly nice. they are more vintage, i.e. diffuse sounding, big, warm, very enjoyable.
The 4647 boxes are more like high end type speakers with the high efficiency edge. WAY more bass of course, with all the imaging and so forth. The crossover makes the response really flat on these things. The 9.90 wave guide is a minor miracle as far as I'm concerned, the results are indeed astonishing! basically, I love the A7 but these things kick their ass in almost every parameter, with the exception of the "frankenstein laboratory/Industrial" styling.:blah:

Russellc

[macaroonie]

with the exception of the "frankenstein laboratory/Industrial" styling.:blah:

Russellc

Interesting comments. We know how to deal with the styling issues don't we , hmmmm ?

[Zilch]

Interesting comments. We know how to deal with the styling issues don't we , hmmmm ?I believe Russell's alluding to the unique aesthetics of A-7's. :p

Several members have "domesticated" 4507/4647 cabs, e.g.:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=179985#post179985

Most of my work with PT waveguides has been using smaller cabs and 2213H or LE14. With those, there's always an issue of raising or aiming the horn axis to listening height, so I'm working on a "tower" configuration right now.... :yes:

[4313B]

so I'm working on a "tower" configuration right now.... :yes:I'd just do an L150 or S4600 type box.

I'm waiting for someone with 240Ti's to start a thread about how they replaced the 104H and 044Ti with a waveguide and 2452H-SL.

After that maybe a pair of 250Ti's...

We can fix all these old loudspeakers now! :yes:

No more 066's? Not a problem. Demo saw those 4313 baffles for the 12 x 12 waveguide and call it done! This is pretty exciting stuff.

[Zilch]

I'd just do an L150 or S4600 type box.Yup. :yes:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=25910&stc=1&d=1182375046


Demo saw those 4313 baffles for the 12 x 12 waveguide and call it done! This is pretty exciting stuff.Well, no, but I'm not having a lot of issues with reworking $10 thrift store ARs, KLHs or Advents using JBL drivers and waveguides.

[Well, not HERE, at least.... :p ]

[JBLCanuck]

Yup I got the strong stuff -- 25% and my expert says not a prob just watch what is going on. May have to re orientate speaker in the tent. Thanks for your input, its all welcome.

For those here not familiar with Fuming....be very very careful.
Macaroonie is obviously an accomplished woodworker & knows what he's doing but for a rookie, fuming with ammonia is very dangerous.
I have been fuming oak furniture for many years & I've had many close calls.
You can't use regular store bought ammonia...you need 20% anhydrous ammonia as Macaroonie stated above.
First...it's hard to get. The government has placed lots of restrictions in getting your hands on it. When you go to buy it...expect lots of questions because it's most common use these days is making meth & crack! :)
Next, you really need a proper respirator for ammonia. If you haven't used this stuff you just won't be able to understand this or you'll think I'm being an old grandma...but this stuff WILL overcome you & will KILL you.
The first time you get a wiff of this stuff you'll understand....your nose will burn for hours. Usually setting up your tent is the easy part...get prepared & while holding your breath, pour a couple trays of ammonia & slide under.
Removing the tent is the real dangerous issue. I've literally had to run for the door & can remember not thinking I was going to make it.
This is bad stuff & I just want to be sure that proper precaution is taken by anyone fixin to try this.
It's a great way to darken Oak but more than anything, it opens the pores of the Oak & enables you to get a much darker finish with stain while getting a beautiful contrast in the grain without becoming muddy like conventional staining.
Be very respectful of this stuff & you'll love the results on white oak :)

[grumpy]

I'm waiting for someone with 240Ti's to start a thread about how they replaced the 104H and 044Ti with a waveguide and 2452H-SL.

LOL ... don't ask me why I ended up on this old thread, but this comment from 4313B cracked me up... Last night, as I listened to
and looked at my finally completed 240Ti set and started thinking about the M2 horn and 2452H"Be" set...
Well, you can imagine what direction the pondering went.

Anyone have a pair of beater 240Ti cabs? :D

[4313B]

:bouncy:

[macaroonie]

LOL ... don't ask me why I ended up on this old thread, but this comment from 4313B cracked me up... Last night, as I listened to
and looked at my finally completed 240Ti set and started thinking about the M2 horn and 2452H"Be" set...
Well, you can imagine what direction the pondering went.

Anyone have a pair of beater 240Ti cabs? :D

Not wide enough for the M2 wave thingy. PT HF 1010 fits though and looks like it will cover the existing cutouts.
LE14 H-x is such a nice bass driver , add your own spice.

[grumpy]

Still looks doable (barely):
68265
But would have to drop LE14 30mm or so
68264

[Duffinator]

Ah I miss Zilch. The Zilch towers in post 152 are what turned me onto the waveguide sound. :applaud:

[grumpy]

Indeed. :cheers:

[macaroonie]

Well, Zilch would have cut off the perimeter flange leaving the flare only thereby allowing a fit.
Carefully rebated at the side edges and with some nifty bondo deftly applied to fill the top and bottom .... Bit of paint to make good

I'd say you are on to something there. Out of curiosity what are the dimensions of the flare only ?

[grumpy]

There's just a few mm to spare on each side; would be easy to accidentally blow out the side.
Didn't give it much more than a ponder, as I'm not carving up my working 240Ti's :), but the
form factor is nice.

[srm51555]

Hi all at last I am ready to start building my final solution speakers.

Mac, this was a very well documented DIY process, but I have one question. How many speakers have you acquired since finishing your final solution speakers.:) I look forward to your next build.

[macaroonie]

None actually other than PA related boxes. Having said that the M2 concept intrigues me. I could very easily convert those boxes to M2 stylee by putting in a new baffle , move the bass driver up and maybe carve a M2 wave thingy from wood. It's just a shade on the big side as is although I could do as I suggested to Grumpy.
Pricey over here though when you factor in taxes and shipping.

[grumpy]

what are the dimensions of the flare only ?

ah, without the border... Will have to check the back for mounting, but I'll measure tonight.
If they were cheaper, I wouldn't mind modifying them.

[RedCoat23]

Anyone have a pair of beater 240Ti cabs? :D

I'm sure you saw these on 'bay Grumpy?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291569703922

[grumpy]

yep, thanks :thmbsup:. I wish the seller luck.

[grumpy]

M2 flare is 12" tall x 15" wide.
Mounting bits are at or inside this perimeter.

[macaroonie]

I'm sure you saw these on 'bay Grumpy?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291569703922

Fate ?

[Pop Alexandra]

Really like the technique of leaving all kinds of indications before the cut.
Useful for both the working team and for working alone.
_____________________________________________
Alexandra from Summerwood (https://www.summerwood.com/)