Shop tools and what to look for.

[hjames]

Been reading the thread on fotodans restoration of those 4435s he got recently (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=15845) - and have seen other similar threads from Riessen, Ian and other doing gorgeous stuff with wood. To say nothing of the comments in those threads by Edgewound, Richluvsound, Giskard and others.
I don't want to hijack their threads by asking about tools into there - so maybe we could use a thread here talking about nothing but the shop tools.

Obviously, my gear is nothing like the Delta setups I see you pros work with, then again, some of us don't have the space or the bucks to do it first class like that.
I've done stuff on the cheap here - and I know its a compromise, but I don't have a shop space or even a garage, so everything has to knock down quickly, but I have managed to get a (cheap) tablesaw, mitresaw, circular saw and router. (No need to talk about the hammerdrill just yet).

So - maybe you folks can post some info about the shop tools you own, why you bought that gear, and what's good (or bad) about it.

The only thing I'll be getting anytime soon is a replacement cordless drill - Emma gave me a Black & Decker 14.4v cordless a few years back for Christmas, 'cause I really did want to buy American (apparently just before they moved their manufacturing offshore, the b#stards) -

Anyway ... this is just a thread starter post - but it really is important to know what and why ...

[fotodan]

I guess it really depends on what you going to be wanting to do Heather. I have enough tools to build anything from Kitchen cabinets to furniture. I use probably 8 different hand planes, chisels, scrapers, etc. It really depends on what your making. Power tools consist of tablesaw (Delta 10") with one of the best rip fences, and sliding table for crosscuts. Then I have Delta Joiner for making straight edges for glueing (also use biscut cutter for those glue joints). 2 Different shapers, 3 different routers, 12 1/2" planer (for when I am building furniture out of recycled barn wood), Radial Arm saw for crosscutting long boards, Panel saw for crosscutting sheets of plywood. Sharpening center for keeping jointer, planer, and chisels sharp. Also have Porter Cable 12" chop saw for doing all my miter cuts. Then I also have and use my 14" Delta band saw for cutting curves and resawing lumber, and tapered table legs. I also use a mortising machine, and when in a hurry, I will use the Kreig pocket jig system. When I'm making a couple of drawers I always do them with dovetails, when I am doing Kitchen cab drawers, I use my Leigh dovetail jig with router (can cut many drawers in a couple of hours with that. The list goes on and on. For finishing, unless it an antique, I spray all my finishes. For Cherry, Walnut, and Mahogany, I always use oil, and rub in by hand. I must say that my next tool purchase will be a durm sander, that will do up to 36" wide, mainly for surface and smoothing of glued up boards for table tops, and side panels. Hell of a lot easier the belt sander and faster too..
Hope this helps and gives you an idea..:blink:

[speakerdave]

That's some serious woodworking equipment, fotodan.

My kit is closer to Heather's. I use a Rockwell "contractor's" table saw (open base) with wings and the standard rip fence. I bought this used a few years ago to replace an 8" saw I had, really pathetic--I won't tell what brand (I'm thinking of adding the miter guide from Norm Abrams--anybody have experience with that?) I just bought a new half-inch router (brand escapes me for the moment) to use with the Jasper jig. My old big router is in a home-made router table, and my antique Stanley quarter-inch router is not strong enough to through-cut plywood and particle board. I recently bought a Makita miter saw also for making those tricky angles in cabinets with no parallel sides.

I've a 6" Rockwell jointer out there also and a whole assortment of hand tools. I've a Skil 77 and a 6" Rockwell sidewinder for hogging a work piece out of a new sheet of plywood. I've a very long extruded aluminum straight-edge I use for those cuts. I use a Milwaukee/Sioux 3/8 variable speed reversible drill that I also use as a driver, and another antique Stanley--a 1/4 inch one speed drill I use mostly for pilot holes. The Sioux/Milwaukee is small and nifty, an angle drill, not quite 90 degrees; it's very easy to one-hand and fits very nicely into tight spaces.

I really need to add a drill press, and would also like to have a bandsaw and a lathe, biscuit joiner, more router bits, and on and on. There's no end to it, by the way.

I don't know how a hammerdrill gets used to make speakers, but I've got a nasty one out there I used to use for putting anchors in concrete, brick, etc.; if I find a way to make better speakers with it I'll let you know.

David

[saeman]

Heather:

After 30 + years of whacking big wood into little wood I have accumulated a ton of tools for sure. Woodworking has been a passion for me since the late 60's and I have no doubt over the years put a dent in the supply of good hardwood. For a period of about 15 years I had my wood shop headquartered in the upstairs area of a wharehouse building that I used for a business that I operated and life was good - I was there every day and used all of my spare time working on my projects - mostly speakers I guess.

About 5 years ago I folded that business up, vacated the lower level and started a new business. I had a period of about 3 years or so when I did nothing in the wood department. When time came back to me for these projects I found myself with a dilema. All of my tools were located in a place that wasn't convenient for me to go to for an hours worth of relaxation. I had to drive only a few miles to get there but I had to unlock the gate, drive into the property and I was always faced with a bunch of other people who had nothing to do but burn up my time talking about everything on their minds and it always cut my work time in half.

So - I started taking the tools I needed home, a little at a time as I determined what I needed to build monitors in my garage. There I could work in the morning before going to the office and again in the evening, and no wasted travel time or idle chatter time. I was not working as efficiently as I was in my big shop, surrounded with tools and big layout tables - but I was getting more done being left alone.

For the past 2 years I have been working out of my small garage at home, sharing the space with my son's workout rig, my wife's deep freeze and moving everything when I'm done to put a car in the garage at night. All of my big tools - two Rockwell 10" table saws, a 10" radial arm (a near worthless piece of gear), my old joiner and a drill press - remain at my old shop area as they just won't fit into the garage. I eventually took all of the small tools home.

I go to my shop now just for the purpose of using a table saw and I schedule the event with several piles of wood that are ready to rip to finished width. Keeping the old joiner there makes life easy for ripping continuous pieces of trim to finish width.

The moral of this long story is this - you do not need a big expensive pile of tools to build a great pair of JBL monitors. My routine goes like this - I arrive home with my pickup bed loaded with sheets of P.B., baltic birch, etc. Two or three stacked sheets at a time I cut them up to approx. size with my worm drive Skill saw using a clamped straight edge. When done I have a pile of cabinet sides, tops, etc., that are cut to within 1/4" of finish size. It's nice not having to feed full sheets thru the table saw. I then load them up and run them thru the table saw at my shop for finish width. From that point on everything I do requires a router, a drill, clamps and glue. I'm at a bit of a disadvantage having to work like this but the lost time has not slowed me down. In the past two years I have built several pairs of 4350/55's, 4345's. 4344's, 4351's and have restored who knows how many other pairs.

You will have to eventually spend some money if you have nothing now, but you can add on as you go like everyone else does. You will find the following tools indispensible if you are to build these monitors with the desired results:

-10" table saw
-6" joiner
-router, at least one, and get one with some HP and 1/2" shank bits.
-some sort of 10" or 12" mitre saw with 100T/120T fine crosscut blade- Dewalt seems to be real popular
-tons of clamps
-and of course all the incidental hand tools like chiesels, hammers, screwdrivers, drill, etc.

later add-ons

-drill press
-router table or shaper
-more routers you can never have too many routers - I have maybe 7/8 and use them all for different tasks.

What I lack now is the work space that I used to have in years past. Given my floor space restrictions I have just learned to work in a direction that allows me to always keep moving - one cabinet ready for veneer and another being braced out - and I just bounce back and forth. I recently had four big pairs of monitors all working at one time - 4355's, 4351's and 2 pairs of 4350's. I took a 4x8 sheet of ply and cut it into four 2x4 pieces and put casters under them as carts. I stack two cabs on each cart and move them around as necessary. This was in fact too much to have on my plate at one time but I share it to let you know just how much one might accomplish when only having a small garage to work in.

I also do not have a LP air compressor at home like I have at the shop so any spray finish work must also be done there. With fans running and cars moved out of the way I do spray black cabinet backs at home but that's the limit. Too much and I would trash the entire garage.

There are quite a few members on the forum doing this work at home as I am and I'm sure that you will get all the help you need.

Rick

[Gary L]

Hi Heather, Nice question and I suspect you will get some good info here.

Like many here, I had to make the exit from a commercial grade shop full of big tools to a garage type work shop.
The nice thing about speaker building is there really is no need for gigantic and heavy duty tools. About the hardest thing is getting the full sheets trimmed down to working sizes.
I use a circular saw and straight edge with clamps to do it and made a jig with 2X4s on the floor that I can remove to the shed once the 4X8 sheets are cut up.

MDF, Particle board and plywood does not require heavy duty saws so about any home shop table saw will do the job as long as the fence is straight.

Here is a pic of my Jasper Circle guide on my plunge router. It makes routing circles as simple as 1,2,3.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Personal%20Pics/DSCN1627.jpg

I also made an extension table on my table saw and installed a router lift kit to make dados simple.
My saw is a very inexpensive Ryobi BT 3000 and even with all this stuff attached it is simple to slide into the corner of my garage when not in use.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Personal%20Pics/DSCN1618.jpg

The router lift cost more then the saw and extension table but it is worth every penny and just makes the process so simple.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Personal%20Pics/DSCN1614.jpg

I have made some pretty large speakers with these tools and always long for the big stuff and large shop but can do just fine as I am set up now and still get a car and some lawn equipment in when necessary.

Gary

[HipoFutura]

Heather, as well as the power tool mentioned above, my most useful tools are several 3' - 4' quick release clamps (Home Depot, Rockler, etc.). These things have a million uses. Don

[richluvsound]

Hi Heather,

You cant go wrong buying the best quality tools you can afford . Your very fortunate , most of the best tools in the world come from America. You have read some of the brand names in the previous posts. I must encourage you to look at the Festool website. They make one fantastic corrdless drill. However, in my experience no one company makes everything well . Hilti for example make the best hammer drills in history, but they also market an angle grinder with the Hilti logo and yet built by Bosch; buyer beware even at pro level.
Lee Valley is another good website to visit.

You can get some superb results with very basic tools, a skilsaw and straight edge can do what you need if all your doing is building enclosures. See if you can get aluminum box section for you staight edge. I use 2 , 50" for cross sheet cut and 120" for ripping sheets length wise. Its best to get 3mm wall thickness . I would recommend using 2 4" c-clamps to hold it in place. Quick clamps are good , but they can slip.
I seldom use a pencil to mark out , I prefer a utility knife with a good steel rule .
Routers are an amazing tool . I use 3 . I have a 1/2 in a router table , another 1/2 for rebating and 1/4 for light routing jobs . WARNING Routers are the most dangerous tool in the workshop. I have seen some pretty nasty things in 30 years. And its always down to getting cocky. However , from the little I've gleaned from your postings and threads,Humility seems to be a virtue you nurture, I think you will do very well.
See if you can get a book on routing and the jigs you can make . There really is much you cant do with the right jig and some imagination.

COUNTERSINK , PILOT DRILL AND SCREW AND GLUE EVERYTHING.! I find a good hot glue gun really useful. It holds things in place when I cant clamp and it comes off with a sharp chisel.

Old fashioned Sash clamps , i dont use anything else.
keep your tools sharp and clean . Ply and mdf glue will build up on router bits and saw blades. I'm sure Dan or Rick can help you with brand name over there.

BAND AIDS , TWEEZERS FOR SPLINTERS , EYEWASH KIT. GOOD SAFTEY GLASSES.

have fun and I'll look forward to seeing you build your babies.

Like the others , I'm just a pm away if you need any help !

Rich;)

[loach71]

1) Always use a splitter and blade guard on your table saw. One mistake without a blade guard and you could be looking at a tri to the emergency room.
2) The heart of you table saw is the rip fence. I use clone of the Beismeyer fence -- and it works well.


I'll add more as my poor old brain thinks of them...

[SMKSoundPro]

No matter how careful you are, things happen!

I cut off my left pinky with my Rockwell table saw in 2001. I was careful! Stuff happened.
Wife mad, standing right there.
Got a check from workman's comp that bounced.
Bought used Cadillac with the check when good.
Gave cad to Lisa to smooth anger.
Got to keep my job.
Type slower. shift, a s q w z caps lock pain in wrong place.
Got new UNISAW! bigger!!! Better!!!
Wife nows I'll never do that again!
Moral: Be careful out there!!! Stuff Happens!

I use a UniFence on my Rockwell Contractors saw here at home.
I use a Biesemeyer 50" on my Unisaw at work over the bar.
Both great fences. Buy a dial guage and tune them up.
A good quality blade has NO substitute! I am using Freud red 40 tooth. $79.95. great cuts in veneer plywood. Never tried a Forrest.

Now get to work building the SINGING FURNITURE OF YOUR DREAMS!!!

Please do not discontinue the DIY section.
Thank you!
smk.

[Gary L]

Yea Heather, My shop saws were a Powermatic 66 with a Paralock rip fence attached with aircraft cables from below so the front has to always remain exactly parellel to the rear. My Delta Unisaw had a Beismier fence that was also quite nice and fairly accurate.
My "Cheap" Ryobi saw, which I think is where you said you were at, works fine and the fence locks both front and rear but requires a check now and then for allignment.

As I said, you can build some very nice speakers with some fairly inexpensive tools because they don't need to be commercial grade and used daily. You just have to stay on top of maintenance and adjustments a bit more.

Good blades are important and straight edges help alot but after I cut the full sheets to a bit over panel size, I square all of them up on the table saw to exact size. I even go so far as to put two panels, one on top of the other to check for squareness and then flip one over and check again.

We do not need the major dollar tools and quality to build great cabinets because a good blade cuts right thru MDF, Particle Board and Plywood like butter with almost no strain on the motor.

A great plunge router is essential as is another standard router for dadoed rabbit cuts. The router lifts are fantastic because they make fine adjustments from above the table and very simple.

I differ in a couple of areas here because to spend large dollars on a great blade is almost silly these days because to get them sharpened almost always costs more then a new one and thats if you can even find a good sharpening place.

Almost every cabinet you will build will be covered over with veneer and this is where attention to detail needs to be most accurate.

These were built with the tools above and are what most would consider cheap Junk yet by paying close attention and learning in the process, you can acheive great accuracy and have a blast on fairly small dollars.

Gary
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v722/Gamalot/Dayton%20Build/DSCN1653.jpg

[Cyclotronguy]

Heather,

I'm going to do devils advocate here. Historically I've had access to pretty much all the high end wood and metal carving goodies, by virtue of running shop facilities for concerns with damn near unlimited funds. It sure is nice to have everything you might want.... but not necessary.

I'm semi-retired, well out of the shop principal gig anyway; and today I work at home in a small garage and keep the tools kinda to a minimum by choice and lack of space. I don't turn out work by the truck loads... but I do have fun and relax.

You can if you wish, become the master of "workarounds" meaning slightly slower ways of doing very accurate work. Lots of text books on these little tips and tricks.

As for example, most of my cutting is done with a very good circular saw and an accurate sled + straightedge. For pieces that have to be identical I make a master first and make copies of that master with a router and guide. Good measuring tools help here. Really big cuts... I get the lumber / home building store to do those for me; either free or about a dollar a cut on their panel saw.

I own several hand planes, most used is very fine reproduction of an early 20th century low angle small block plane.

For a fine finish on wood it's tough to compete with the person who can sharpen and handle a cabinet scraper. In general really sharp tools make all of this quite a bit easier. Most of my sanding (what damn little of it I do) seems to be with an Automotive "longboard" and shoulder power.

I keep two routers a old flea market monster hitched up to an edgeguide/trammel called a "Micro-Fence" and a cute little laminate trimmer..... both are almost "can't live without's"

The only stationary tool I own is a tiny benchtop Delta drill press.

For workspace I have a heavy fold up table the I can set up in a jiffy outside or in the garage. Another smaller one alongside for odds and ends.

And "oh yeah" lots of clamps and tincture of time.

Cyclotronguy

[Ian Mackenzie]

Kent,

You were reading my mind.

Heather,

Given your scenario a very good product you might it find useful is a Triton work bench. They are sold worldwide. Its a lot more than a fold up table and it handy if you need to make space out of what you've got.

www.triton.com.au/ (http://www.triton.com.au/)
http://www.triton.com.au/product.php?id=1


Next on my list is the Jasper circle jig and as mentioned a collection of Bits. A floor standing drill press is also useful.

Space is always a and accurate cutting is really important.

I live in an inner city apartment but I am lucky to have access to my fathers very well equipped shop.

In occassions have resorted to some working in the living room or the kitchen but that is mainly electronis assembly these days.

As mentioned above if you have fairly specific projects then you can concentrate of using the best tools for the job at hand.

I also have a collection of jigs for doing various tasks consistantly and very accurately.

For example when I cut my 4345 baffles I built a made a purpose jig to hold the laminated baffles while doing the routing which took several weekends.

Keeping tools sharp is also really important.

I can't think of the name of the magazine but there is an excellent American publication that has great articles on all this sort of thing. Check out your local newsagent.

Enjoy

Ian

[Mr. Widget]

Really good professional quality router bits and saw blades are important too.

It occurs to me that many of you probably aren't aware of the professional tools that are simply not available in stores like Home Depot. As has been mentioned by others above, sharp tools do make all the difference. Professional tools like Amana and several other brands use higher quality carbide and stay sharp between sharpenings for far longer than the Dewalt, Bosch, and other "contractor" duty tools that most people see at places like the big DIY warehouses. These tools are not inexpensive, but if you buy the good stuff it will last for years in a home shop. Most of us plow through a fair amount of MDF in these speaker projects. It is terribly abrasive... a quality carbide tool will last far longer before you need to take it to the sharpener than those less costly alternatives.


Widget

[Gary L]

I don't disagree with the quality blade deal at all except that the big stores are putting the old sharpening places out of business.

My guy charges $20 to touch up an 80 tooth carbide blade and is 55 miles from my home. That equates to 110 miles to get it to him and another 110 miles to pick it up. He is the only place in these parts within reasonable driving distance.

I can buy a few of the Dewalts or Oldhams for this price and be cutting for not as long but they work just fine, when sharp, for home shop use.

Totally different if you have a good sharpening shop close by but dollars and sense dictates otherwise for us country folks. I think where blade quality is concerned, geography and how close you are to the sharpening service might be a very big consideration.

In many cases, unless you have a stack of HQ blades it simply is not worth ever getting them sharpened.

Gary

[Mr. Widget]

My guy charges $20 to touch up an 80 tooth carbide blade and is 55 miles from my home. That equates to 110 miles...
Ouch! I bitch because the two shops I use are both closed by 4:00PM and are not open on the weekends... both are less than 3 miles away though. I guess I am spoiled. I like the way one sharpens router bits better and have the other sharpen my saw and planer blades.

How about shipping your blades to the saw shop?



In many cases, unless you have a stack of HQ blades it simply is not worth ever getting them sharpened.Yep... I have a pair of metal cutting blades, 3 acrylic cutting blades, and at least a half dozen or so wood blades... a couple of crosscut blades, fine cutting blades, ripping blades, etc... I have been collecting them for the last 20+ years and buy them as jobs require them.

The thing is though... these admittedly expensive professional blades do cut better than the DIY store variety.


Widget

[Ian Mackenzie]

The thing is though... these admittedly expensive professional blades do cut better than the DIY store variety.


Widget

We use CMT carbide and Carbatech bits and saw blades.

The are definately worth the additional cost if you are planning to cut MDF or hardwood.

Ian

[Gary L]

Not to harp on this or further hijack a good thread, I do feel you will be seeing most of the sharpening services going under with the advent of the DIY stores and what they sell to most of us who use these products.

I suppose in more metro areas there is a continual need and customer base for these services but away from the cities it has become increasingly harder for them to remain in business.

I can buy a decent carbide 80 Th blade for around $20-30 and it may not cut as good or for as long but it will cut and get the job done to a very close tolerence.

How else to say this other then, "Welcome to the age of throw away products".

Gary

[Ian Mackenzie]

I am inclined to think pro's and sharpening guru's will look after each other.

The point (sorry) is to keep the tool sharp for an A1 job.