4560 JBL Bass Bins

[stick130]

Do you use any insulation in these cabinets? If so what is the location to apply insulation. What makes the best insulations? More questions than answers. I kick myself in the rear for ever getting rid of the pair I had. My Dad being a great cabinet builder is gonna make them for me out of burch!

[grumpy]

Maybe put this in the DIY section so folks will see it where it's expected...
This isn't exactly Forum Feedback material.:p

[Storm]

Stick -

I have two of those that are in your Avatar. They are in the garage and was going to put them on CL tomorrow.

They are BIG!

:)

-Storm.

[Soundmaster]

Cant answer your question but maybe you can answer mine. do you know where I can get a set of plans so I can build some? I had 4 of them in the 80'S but now you cant find them very often if you do they want an arm and a leg for them or they are on the other side of the country.Can you help?

[grumpy]

google "4560 plans"

[Joe Alesi]

Do you use any insulation in these cabinets? If so what is the location to apply insulation. What makes the best insulations? More questions than answers. I kick myself in the rear for ever getting rid of the pair I had. My Dad being a great cabinet builder is gonna make them for me out of burch!

Hello Stick

I am not sure what was in them originally, but Fibregalss batts or acrylic fibre insulation should be fine. Fibreglass typically provides more damping, and is often also higher density, but if you are not in love with the idea working with it because of loose fibres, masks, itching etc...you could use the acrylic.

Best
JA

[short_circutz]

I know where there will be four 4560 cabs coming available for sale here...they have been in a couple of different installs since new (first time installed from new at a roller rink by my dad), second install is in the club I do some tech work in (installed by my dad and I) and never used in a portable system. They have the original 2220 speakers all in working order (though the cones are pretty soft), they have 2397 horns ( http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2397.pdf )with adapters going to 1" drivers (I forget which model drivers, but we upgraded the phenolic diaphragms that were in them to newer titanium diaphragms)...the 15's are 16 ohm models, so are the horn drivers.

They aren't being used anymore since we installed the SR4731X speakers at the stage (got those at a steal for $1000 Cdn for the pair!), so they will be coming down and sold, either as complete units or parted out. I'm right at the center of the great lakes, directly across the border from Sault Ste Marie MI. I'll try to get pics.

[jcrobso]

They were copies but they had JBL speakers in them, I had do to some minor repairs to the cabinet, I put fiber glass on the rear of the box. I have used them a couple of time for PA bottoms. Need to cover them with speaker fabric when I have the time. :D John

[mikebake]

They were copies but they had JBL speakers in them, I had do to some minor repairs to the cabinet, I put fiber glass on the rear of the box. I have used them a couple of time for PA bottoms. Need to cover them with speaker fabric when I have the time. :D John
Not sure what you mean by "bottoms" but these cabs are NOT made for and do NOT put out much bass compared to the 200hz and up range, so they are NOT for sub use or real bass reinforcement. That was not their purpose.
You can use SOME eq down lower to help, depending on the drivers used.

[jcrobso]

Yes, you do have use some EQ since the bass reflex is not as efficient as the front horn. But all in all the still do a good job. John

[mikebake]

They called them bass reflex under 200 in the literature, but when it's down taht many db, it really ain't meant to do much but be horn loaded.

[jcrobso]

I love your tag line.:D John

[SMKSoundPro]

Are you mad?

The 4560 was my first JBL box I used for school dances in 1979. I found one, and had a cabinet maker friend of my parents build a match. I used a "used up" 2205 woofer with silicone around the surround, and a 2440 on a Northwest Sound 2350 style of horn. I had two mono active MXR crossovers at 800hz. My friends and I thought is was the biggest baddest disco dj rig aound!

A couple years later, the owner of the pro sound company took me under his wing and taught me what was completely WRONG with that rig. NO Bottom, and NO real top!

I sold the 4560's to guy for his PA for some crappy little band he had, kept the 2440 and horns, and NEVER EVER looked back!!!

The 4560 is a low-mid cabinet designed for vocal range midrange for movie theatres. There was no such thing as "sub" woofers, just woofers, mids and highs. Pretty basic. Every school PA had a center cluster above the down stage center of a 4560 box and a 2350 or multi cellular horn strapped to it, driven by some weakass Altec amp in rack, somewhere.

Elements of the 4560 horn loaded box can be seen in almost every style of pro PA box since, but lets be very frank... THIS IS NOT A BOTTOM BOX!

If you are looking for serious subs, and these days who isn't, do some homework and search this site. You will find some very good information!

Scotty.

Sheesh! Next someone will say an L100/4311 was the most sonically and technically accurate speaker box! I've got 8 of them. :bs:

[Tom Brennan]

If you are looking for serious subs, and these days who isn't,


I'm not.

I don't think many people think the old 4560 is a subwoofer. What it is is a pretty good sounding box capable of excellent upper bass and midrange and that can do surprisingly well as the bass section of a 2-way system. I've heard several nice hi-fis based on the 4560.

[Paul D]

I have a pair of these and agree that they are lacking in the sub region. I got them from a friend and thought that I would hate them for home use. To my surprise, they sound great! They have some serious punch compared to the reflex cabinets i was running. Increased efficiency means I don't have to push my amps nearly as hard. I do plan on building subs to use with them but would like to hear what other people are using for subs.

What will keep up with them?

What should I cross them over at?

I assume that horn subs will be needed or a bunch of 2245's in large cabinets.

[mikebake]

Lately I've sold every cabinet I owned,except the 4560's. I've always liked waht they can do. If you are using them for home listening, instead of a sub you could try attenuating the midrange, or boosting the LF. If you start looking for subs to keep up, you are looking at some large or expensive solutions, when you consider the 103db sensitivity of the 4560. Or use some lesser subs and just don't turn up the 4560's.

[Paul D]

Thanks Mikebake,
I plan on keeping these because they have the sound I have been looking for for quite some time. I did try using a lab 12 sub with them but couldn't get the system to integrate properly. The lab 12 has tremendous output down to 30 hz but for all the room it took up and the fact that it didn't do much to complement the 4560's, I decided to get rid of it. The lab 12 could make everything in the room rattle but the 4560's will make snow fall from my drop ceiling!!! Man these suckers can punch.

[mikebake]

What 15 are you using in them?

[jcrobso]

Lately I've sold every cabinet I owned,except the 4560's. I've always liked waht they can do. If you are using them for home listening, instead of a sub you could try attenuating the midrange, or boosting the LF. If you start looking for subs to keep up, you are looking at some large or expensive solutions, when you consider the 103db sensitivity of the 4560. Or use some lesser subs and just don't turn up the 4560's.

I have pair of C40 rear loading horns that I bi-amp when I need that extra bass. John

[Paul D]

What 15 are you using in them?


I,m using a TAD 1601. I used to run these in 5 cu ft B380 clone cabinets that resulted in overexcursion due to the low tuning freq. They seem to like the horn loading much better.

What do you use in your's?

[Paul D]

I have pair of C40 rear loading horns that I bi-amp when I need that extra bass. John

I will definately be biamping the subs.

[mikebake]

I,m using a TAD 1601. I used to run these in 5 cu ft B380 clone cabinets that resulted in overexcursion due to the low tuning freq. They seem to like the horn loading much better.

What do you use in your's?
Originally E130's, mostly 2226's.

[RACKMOUNT]

If anyone needs pics or measurement's of the 4560's i will be glade to
help.I have a set laying around doing nothing.

[Akira]

This is not a put down because I used to own a bunch of them and I liked them at the time for what they were. To this day I still think that they are the best reproducer of 'rock guitar' and the hit from the lower register of a snare drum is superb. Their projection is fair up to medium distances around 100' perhaps a little more.
Really the downfall in these boxes resulted in: A) a movement to smaller more portable systems and B) like many older systems that were 4 and 5 way due to the driver limitations of the time, resulting in the cross over point being right smack in the middle of the spectrum. Later systems attempted to have a seamless mid crossing over much higher.

Like everyone else 30 years ago, I couldn't give mine away for free so I just threw them out. BUT, time heals and I guess they have a different value now if not a sentimental one. "What's old is new again"

p.s. a word of warning:
This cabinet is not meant for bass reproduction and really suits a 2220 or E130 and indeed it does it's job quite well with these mid bass drivers. There is not enough clearance in the factory boxes to accommodate a 2225 excursion. I found this out the hard way.

[Joe Alesi]

Hello Guys

I think what the 4560s do with drums is incredible. I use mine with 2226 drivers, but I also have some E130s and E140s I have never tried.

In search of a 4way horn system, I also have some folded bass horns some 1.7m long that suit 2240 drivers, that I am yet to try to integrate with the 4560s.

I did have one idea to try with the 4560 in a 4-way and that was to use the horn only, and extend the existing horn throat backwards to suit a 12 or 10 inch driver, say a 2202 or 2123 and then use a sealed backchamber. That way I have alot less cabinet making and could then use the horn from say 100-200 Hz and hand over at (maybe) around 600/800 Hz to a 2440 then 2405....

One day

Best
JA

[jcrobso]

This is not a put down because I used to own a bunch of them and I liked them at the time for what they were. To this day I still think that they are the best reproducer of 'rock guitar' and the hit from the lower register of a snare drum is superb. Their projection is fair up to medium distances around 100' perhaps a little more.
Really the downfall in these boxes resulted in: A) a movement to smaller more portable systems and B) like many older systems that were 4 and 5 way due to the driver limitations of the time, resulting in the cross over point being right smack in the middle of the spectrum. Later systems attempted to have a seamless mid crossing over much higher.

Like everyone else 30 years ago, I couldn't give mine away for free so I just threw them out. BUT, time heals and I guess they have a different value now if not a sentimental one. "What's old is new again"

p.s. a word of warning:
This cabinet is not meant for bass reproduction and really suits a 2220 or E130 and indeed it does it's job quite well with these mid bass drivers. There is not enough clearance in the factory boxes to accommodate a 2225 excursion. I found this out the hard way.

Yes, 30 years ago they were the hottest thing out there. I run mine in a 4 way setup with the sub bi-amp and passive on the rest. This way I only need two power amps.
They show up on eBay from time to time. I'm in the process of building a more portable set that will be for smaller gigs.

[mikebake]

Drums, yes, very strong on 4560. I use 2226's, never had them bottom, but I don't try to feed them too much, too low.

[mikebake]

This is not a put down because I used to own a bunch of them and I liked them at the time for what they were. To this day I still think that they are the best reproducer of 'rock guitar' and the hit from the lower register of a snare drum is superb. Their projection is fair up to medium distances around 100' perhaps a little more.
Really the downfall in these boxes resulted in: A) a movement to smaller more portable systems and B) like many older systems that were 4 and 5 way due to the driver limitations of the time, resulting in the cross over point being right smack in the middle of the spectrum. Later systems attempted to have a seamless mid crossing over much higher.

Like everyone else 30 years ago, I couldn't give mine away for free so I just threw them out. BUT, time heals and I guess they have a different value now if not a sentimental one. "What's old is new again"

p.s. a word of warning:
This cabinet is not meant for bass reproduction and really suits a 2220 or E130 and indeed it does it's job quite well with these mid bass drivers. There is not enough clearance in the factory boxes to accommodate a 2225 excursion. I found this out the hard way.
They still want them because physics doesn't change and people like the sound and efficiency.

[scott fitlin]

They still want them because physics doesn't change and people like the sound and efficiency.I have to agree with this. Yeah, on one hand it is older technology, but still works, and has projectivity through the upper bass and mids I can't seem to get from strictly direct radiators with no horn loading.

I use TAD 1603 ( very similar to JBL 2226 ) drivers in all my Altec basshorns, similar to JBL 4560, and I did add a spacer ring to prevent unwanted cone slap against the horn flare, and has never been a problem.

I read with interest how the technology may or may not be valid today, and I look at pro systems, especially ones made particularly for dance clubs, have actually returned to BIG, HEAVY, and EXPENSIVE HORN LOADED CABINETS! Ok, they updated the way they do it these days. Instead of a dual 15in front loaded horn doing LF and MF, today we have systems with the full range consisting of either a large dual 15in folded horn LF or QUAD direct radiating 15,s with tuned ports, dual 10in, or 12in, OR quad 8in straight front loaded horns for the midbass/midrange, and a HF compression driver/horn, or even an additional VHF tweeter as well.

IMO, the 4560,s can still work well today, and I also think that with good subs, and HF horns and even tweeters, one can get more out of less gear and power than it will take to achieve the same with ported direct radiators alone. And even then, IMO, the sound that comes from horn loding, and it's all been said here, the snare drum, the drums, I also think vocals, keyboards, bass guitar, percussion, etc.