Another 4345 pair is coming to UK

[Guido]

Hello Forum Members!

I currently assist Forum Member "richluvsound" with his 4345 clones.

He was asking me to start that thread.

He does brilliant woodwork and i do the recones and charge coupled crossovers for him.

We are currently on hold with the project as german forwarder HERMES isn't able to ship 2 packages to London. At least the package with the 2122H arrived till now. Nobody knows where the other parts are located right now. :banghead:
I'll change to another shipping company and we will continue with the project soon.

Pics will follow this evening.

[Guido]

Here are the first pics from Richards amazing cabinet work

[Guido]

Later stage

[Guido]

1. The famous 2122H fresh reconed. The 10" cores looked like crap when I got them.
2. The start of the crossover building (woofer board)

[Hofmannhp]

Excelent work Guido,

also Richards woodwork :applaud: :applaud: ..........there comes the feeling of a need for some too......I need more space.

HP

[X_X]

Hi Guido,

Thank you for sharing these pictures.

I notice the woofer cutout looks to be for a 15", yes? I can nearly fit two 2122's into a 2245 frame. The proportions of your front baffle favour a 15" LF transducer.

Also, is that a spline joining the corners of the cabinet?


Nate.

[Guido]

I notice the woofer cutout looks to be for a 15", yes?

Nope! 18" 2245. The real thing



Also, is that a spline joining the corners of the cabinet? Nate.

For this Rich is the expert!

[Earl K]

Nice Work Guido ! ( & oh,,,, sorry I missed your birthday yesterday :( / so I'll wish you here , a belated happy 40th :birthday: ).

& now, Once Again, I have 2245H / 2122H envy. So, I'll need to stop looking :p

[Ken Pachkowsky]

Quido

It's always nice to see such professional looking work.

Keep us posted.

Ken

[Andyoz]

Richard...WOW :bouncy::bouncy:...I may commission you to do some work for me some day.

Also, did you get my email re. the XPL160's for sale in London (they are probably of no interest to you seeing as what you are currently working on!)

[Hoerninger]

Very inspiring work of you two! :applaud:
____________
Peter

[Ian Mackenzie]

Nice work.

That choke looks like a low dcr laminate for the woofer?

If he is planninng to run full internal passive (not biamp) the LC values for the woofer low pass filter are only valid for the stock 3145 crossover where the dcr of the 5.4 mH choke was about 0.5 ohms.

The network will require re work as will the final tuning (vb and Fb) for a lower Dcr choke.

Ian

[Ian Mackenzie]

Pm me if you want some assistance with the above and setting it up.

While the stock schematic works in internal passive mode its far from an optimium design for the best out of the 2245H and 2212H drivers in this particular system.

I plan to do a complete re work of those aspects shortly as it is my experience that unless the user has a hi end active crossover the notion of biamping offers better fidelity is sheer nonesense with this particular system. Given hi end active crossovers are few are far between and the inconvenience of biamping it might prove appealing to those that want a real improvement.

I am sure you will find this rather enlightening.

Ian

[Guido]

the LC values for the woofer low pass filter are only valid for the stock 3145 crossover where the dcr of the 5.4 mH choke was about 0.5 ohms. Ian

We are not to far off here. I went through this with my 4435 and it turned out well. Thanks for the heads up.



If he is planninng to run full internal passive (not biamp)....

Both variants, active and passive, are possible.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Okay,

Love those baffles:)

[Guido]

DIY 4345 cards.
I'm lost in crossover building. CC 3145 networks are not done overnight :(

[Guido]

The midrange crossover boards.

3x 22uF caps per board are on backorder

[speakerdave]

Very nice, Guido and Rich. Beautiful work, both!

It's remarkable also, I think, that we have the opportunity, because of the availability of components and the cooperation and support of the company that made this speaker and the help of its designer, both directly and through Giskard, to replicate this magnificent speaker. Hats off to everyone involved.

David

[4313B]

He does brilliant woodwork and i do the recones and charge coupled crossovers for him.Sounds like a similar arrangement on this side of the pond. :hmm: I'm sure you guys talked about it during Rick's visit. :)


CC 3145 networks are not done overnight :(No... they aren't. I'm finishing up the measurements on a stock 3144 and a stock 3145 today in fact and will be finalizing the equivalent networks in the next couple weeks.

I finished the final 3155 equivalent network design a couple weeks ago and am finally pleased with the results. Rick is going to try and get the finished prototypes bolted into his 4355's today.

It's remarkable also, I think, that we have the opportunity, because of the availability of components and the cooperation and support of the company that made this speaker and the help of its designer, both directly and through Giskard, to replicate this magnificent speaker.I was very reluctant to take on these 4344/4345 and 4355 projects. You know, the been there done that syndrome, but it has turned out to be quite fun. The latest pair of 4355's sound really nice with the aquaplased aluminum diaphragms and the final version of the charge coupled equivalent filters. They stayed around an extra week so I could give them a thorough listen.

None of this would have been possible without Greg Timbers, David Smith, Mark Gander, Doug Button, Jerry Moro, Don McRitchie, Ian Mackenzie, Guido, Rick Riessen, Bo Putnam, Mr. Widget, Robh3606, Mikebake, Subwoof, the LHS membership and a whole lot of time and effort. It has taken literally years to work through the various iterations as time and money permit.

[Guido]

.....and the cooperation and support of the company that made this speaker and the help of its designer, both directly and through Giskard...

Indeed!

Thanks Greg
Thanks Giskard

[richluvsound]

I would like to thank everyone involved with the forum. Everyone has been so gracious with their time and knowledge. I may have funded this project but ,the 4345's belong to the forum members. It goes without saying, any and all are welcome to stop in for an audition and a meal whenever you find yourselves in london.

regards, Richard:)

[Chas]

I would like to thank everyone involved with the forum. Everyone has been so gracious with their time and knowledge. I may have funded this project but ,the 4345's belong to the forum members. It goes without saying, any and all are welcome to stop in for an audition and a meal whenever you find yourselves in london.

regards, Richard:)

4345's and bangers and mash? My mouth is watering....

An absolutely brilliant job by the way, stop by here, too, for a listen to OEM 4345's, if you are ever passing through the colonies.:)

[richluvsound]

Hi Charles,
i may take you up on that. I've never been to TO . I'm due to be in Canada next summer. My family all live out west. New York ,Toronto seems like an ok route. But, only in the spring though, I can remember your winters!
Rich:D

[richluvsound]

Hi X_X,
the splines are 3.5 mm x 20 mm oak , the rebate is 21 mm x 4 mm.
Rebates, or rabates for our American members , are cut with a biscuit jointer.
I needed to machine the splines slightly smaller so all the glue did'nt get pushed out when sliding the splines in.
Rich

[Guido]

Having settled the shipping problem the project is moving again.
:D

[Robh3606]

Very Nice

Rob:applaud:

[bottleneck]

Beautiful cabinets!

What a fantastic speaker build! Wish I had the skills.


NB Richard... It's me that's after your old speakers (when I move house and have something other than a shoe-box to put them in!!) :D

JBL blue on a proper wood cabinet is just gorgeous...

[Guido]

The speakers might be finished.

No word from Richard.......

I think he is LOST IN SOUND :)

[Andyoz]

Spoke to him today...I think he's only got one of the pair running so far but he hasn't been able to pull himself away from it to finish the other one..:D:D:D

[Guido]

This is all I have for now

[Andyoz]

He seems to be getting better at taking photos anyway (only kidding Rich ;))

[richluvsound]

This is all I have for now

What can I say Guido ? Man, you sure know how to build a freeken xover. I wish you could hear this. I dont want to go to bed. WE DID GOOD ,WE DID REALLY BLOODY. Wheres those drawings. Now I'm really inspired.

Thank you :Guido,Zilch,Subwoof,Giskard ,Ian,and Reissen(Cough.Cough!;) )
Oh Yes ,and, SIR GREG TIMBERS:applaud:

Richluvsound, Even more than before!!!!!

[Guido]

Hi Res Pics PLEASE!

[Guido]

Wheres those drawings.

I'm working on them :D

[messengerman]

Spent a great evening yesterday listening to Richards 4345s.

Wooooahh.
They really are truly wonderful. And so beautifully made. :applaud:

The first JBLs I've heard and man I'm hooked.

I want some!

Now, if I can just move out the kids I might just make room for his 4435s...:hmm:

[Guido]

and one of his babys

[Guido]

We like those 2245 don't we? :)

[jblbgw_man]

Hi guys, I've been reading this thread with much interest, having a pair of 4435's I was wondering how these 4345's compare to the 4435's ?? I'd be interested in your comments. I may wish to undertake construction of a pair of 4345 clones myself as I'm itching for a new project (haven't told the wife yet), I am wondering how easiy is it to source the original drivers. Your feedback is appreciated.

[richluvsound]

Hi guys, I've been reading this thread with much interest, having a pair of 4435's I was wondering how these 4345's compare to the 4435's ?? I'd be interested in your comments. I may wish to undertake construction of a pair of 4345 clones myself as I'm itching for a new project (haven't told the wife yet), I am wondering how easiy is it to source the original drivers. Your feedback is appreciated.

need I say anymore. :applaud:

[boputnam]

Richard...

I shamefully admit to only partially following this thread - I lost track some months ago, after fuming about some moronic irrelevant eruption over in OT that sapped my energy and interest. My sincere apologies...

I just now caught-up with the project and am floored. I now understand the glowing pm you sent yesterday (hearing a 4345 for the first time is damned rapturous...). I now understand the mystery shipments I made to Guido in the past - maybe some for this project!!?? - but I had no idea of either of your skills or ambitions. So very cool. Thanks for posting all the detail. I have crossover envy... :o:

I am committed to making a visit!! I'm through London at-least four times this year (as of now... :) ), and look forward to it. Thanks for the invite!

[boputnam]

Nope! 18" 2245. The real thingMy last words of experience are, just wait a year - you won't believe what those 2245's are capable of after they break-in...

[JBLnsince1959]

Well, I've been reading this thread for awhile now and I've been wanting to post but really...words have failed me...

The work is amazing, just amazing...guys, you did a great job and should be very proud.

My hat is off to you all....:applaud:

Makes me want to make my own cabinets and start the sawdust flying....

congratulations

[Guido]

I now understand the mystery shipments I made to Guido in the past - maybe some for this project!!??

No "Bo Blue" involved here ;)

It's Richard Blue

[richluvsound]

Just refurbed a used Technics 1200 mk 11 , new ortofon cartridge . (I cant hide my JBL roots) I put one in a dishwasher once after heavy nite with a Mexican worm:barf: Spilt it Getting distracted by some PYT wanting to dance some crap song! Anyway, nuff nostalgia. Vinyl sounds gorgeous via the Nak CA 11 into the Bryston ( I know, its taking a break from 4333a duty till my new mono blocks arrive) and on into my German Engineered C.C xovers and out through SIR GREG TIMBERS hard work:D
I'm no master, I'm pretty good with a chainsaw and plenty of gule and sawdust. Yep ! Guido edited the Photo's. Really , I'm a complete novice at this game. I have had a lot of help from the masters around here though !
thanks, Rich

[saeman]

Hi Richard:

From the pics I see that you are done, not near done. They look fantastic. Too bad you're so far away. We could sit them asside mine and do an A/B for sound.

You're foil cals and grille badges are on their way.

Rick

[Guido]

And what is a PYT ??

[jim campbell]

pretty young thing.............

[boputnam]

So, is the new 4345 a lurker on the LH forum (note the laptop on LH...), or... :rotfl:

[richluvsound]

i'm not really addicted honest !
Its 3am here and I'm listerning and my mates are chatting away . I wish they would bugger off so me and my babies can have some quality time together:D

[richluvsound]

Eargle came to london today. Talk about great timing .
thanks Everyone :applaud:

[Ian Mackenzie]

The UK dinner thread has some post about adjustments I made to Rich's 4345s.

I summary,

1. Correction of the right hand mid L pad wiring. This out of phase wiring error resulted in imaging issues and a spectral balance issue out of the horns

2. Alignment of the enclosure locations relative to the side walls.

3. Calibration of the L pad for zero (0) of the mid, hf and ufh pad markers.

As installed the mid was -1 low, the hf and uhf were +1 above reference (0) in the flat postion. I used a cd with spot sine wave frequencies at about 650 hz, 4.2 khertz and 15 khertz and read the levels of the meter by deducting the relative (0) dba position from the full scale postion on each L pad.(-4 uhf, -4 hf, -3 mid).

The result is a completely seemless transition of the drivers and marked improvement in imaging.

Ian

[Guido]

So finally we've done a good job!

:applaud:

[boputnam]

The result is a completely seemless transition of the drivers and marked improvement in imaging.Well now, maybe Rich will cease thoughts of alternative speakers, ferhellsake!

We tried to warn you Rich, these 4345's are not "plug and play"... :rotfl:

[4313B]

Nice job Ian!

Yeah Bo, they never were, that's for sure.

Having had the time and opportunity to compare the latest with these old large format Studio Monitors I have to say that it is my opinion that one has to spend a whole ton of money to beat them after they've been tweaked with today's ideas.

[timc]

Just found this thread and im amazed. Great craftmanship from input terminal to 2405 slot tweeter. Wich i had the skills. Oh well..ill just have to settle with my JBL Power1222 sub project. Gonna post pics when i get the cabinets.

Would love to hear your setup if take a trip to London in the future. I Live in Norway so its not that far....;)

Best regards Tim

[Ian Mackenzie]

Nice job Ian!

Yeah Bo, they never were, that's for sure.

Having had the time and opportunity to compare the latest with these old large format Studio Monitors I have to say that it is my opinion that one has to spend a whole ton of money to beat them after they've been tweaked with today's ideas.
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=28209&stc=1&d=1189899344
Hi Giskard,

Nice to see you around.

I said (exactly) as much to Richard coming back on the train from Windsor last night.

For me there is only one jump ahead and I can't afford them.....

Bo's system is working really well too.

For me the sun rises and sets with these (complete) 4345 based systems when they are done right!

Ian

[4313B]

Bo's system is working really well too.What do you think of the TAD's?

[richluvsound]

Giskard,
thank you for the 2307's

Rich

[Ian Mackenzie]

What do you think of the TAD's?

In Bo's case it was impressive but Bo has done a lot of improvement elsewhere in his system. More resolving power and depth than the stock vintage JBL drivers.

However I hear they are NOA from Tad. I guess Bo got lucky.

I would like to hear Sub's modified 2307 with 2435 Be some day.

Ian

[4313B]

Giskard,
thank you for the 2307's

RichSure. I'm glad you ended up with a really nice system.


I would like to hear Sub's modified 2307 with 2435 Be some day.Yeah, I'm anxious to hear what he has to say about them as well.

[Ian Mackenzie]

The whole thing is still a work in progress as Bo is still running stock networks.

I would have liked to have heard the new networks..maybe next time!

Guido did an excellent job on the CC equivalent networks for Rich.

The bridging jumpers for passive to active switching are cool...........

Ian

[Guido]

Thanks Ian!

Richard,

what Amp is this?

Better than the SAC's? Nah!

[Fangio]

Made in USA - a BAT VK-6200 (Balanced Audio Technology).

Since you asked so nicely we're A/B'ing them for you right now. :)

[hjames]

Made in USA - a BAT VK-6200 (Balanced Audio Technology).

Since you asked so nicely we're A/B'ing them for you right now. :)

Gawd, what a MONSTER! It looks HUGE!

http://www.balanced.com/products/amp/Vk-6200/index.html

[JBLOG]

Fangio,

What are those understated tube monoblocks there in the back? Looks like they have a gain control on the front.

[richluvsound]

Hi Mr Blog,

greatings from London. They are Audion Sterling Class A . They are on the way to Germany for mods and then I'll try them on the HF active with the SAC's on the 2245's.

Rich

[Guido]

They are Audion Sterling Class A . They are on the way to Germany for mods

He He, Juergen couldn't resist ;)



and then I'll try them on the HF active with the SAC's on the 2245's. Rich

You keep the SACs? Why this isn't a surprise for me?
Really those little SACs where the first amps that made me think about replacing my Aleph 2. OK, it was a very short thought but I thought about it.
Now the Aleph X are coming :D

[JBLOG]

Hi Mr Blog,

greatings from London. They are Audion Sterling Class A . They are on the way to Germany for mods and then I'll try them on the HF active with the SAC's on the 2245's.

Rich


Rich,

Looks like they are sporting KT66s. Can they use EL34s as well? What pre-amp are you using in your set-up?

jblog

[JBL 4645]

That’s a nice looking amplifier. :p

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_3/balanced-audio-technology-vk-6200-amplifier-9-2001.html (http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_3/balanced-audio-technology-vk-6200-amplifier-9-2001.html)

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=28232&stc=1&d=1189974103

[richluvsound]

Fangio and I a/b'd the SAC and BAT. We both chose the SAC's- Very quick,
tight sound. cohesive across the spectrum. Perhaps the BAT is a little more liquid ,but in all I found the LF too sloppy( perhaps the fact the BAT is designed for HT and not stereo , therefore,
maybe biased toward the reproduction sound effects and not double bass has a lot to do with it )

I'm staying German . VIVA GERMAN ENGINEERING !!!!:applaud:

The Audion mono uses KT 88 and 6922 or EC 88.

I ordered replacement 6922's today. I'll post my findings.:applaud:

my pre-amp is Musical Fidelity Nu Vista:D

[rs237]

Fangio and I a/b'd the SAC and BAT. We both chose the SAC's- Very quick,
tight sound. cohesive across the spectrum. Perhaps the BAT is a little more liquid ,but in all I found the LF too sloppy( perhaps the fact the BAT is designed for HT and not stereo , therefore,
maybe biased toward the reproduction sound effects and not double bass has a lot to do with it )

I'm staying German . VIVA GERMAN ENGINEERING !!!!:applaud:

The Audion mono uses KT 88 and 6922 or EC 88.

I ordered replacement 6922's today. I'll post my findings.:applaud:


Rich,

not EC 88. ECC88 or E88CC is the correct tube.


regards
juergen

[richluvsound]

thanks Jurgen.

I ordered 4x 6922 . I hope got that right. Do you fancy mod these for me
then ?
Rich;)

[rs237]

rich,
I would be pleased much about it. What does the 6922 cost? You can get also from me a quartet.

regards

juergen
.

[richluvsound]

Hi Juergen,

I'll have a play then ship them to you.;)

the 6922 are £10 each.

Rich

[rs237]

Rich,

more better by pm, is probably OT.

regards

juergen

[Fangio]

If any members from the continent got the mouth watering – here is a chance (http://cgi.ebay.it/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150162810696&ru=http://search.ebay.it:80/150162810696_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQfromZR40QQfviZ1).

And hurry up! :D

No affiliation.

[richluvsound]

Fangio,

they need 4 recones. Bloody boot polish and look close at the foam.

Rich