Walnut H9800

[John W]

I recently finished constructing a pair of walnut h9800 horn copies based on the drawings put together for project May. Unfortunately I don’t have the computer automated machinery they used for the prototype horn, so had to go a little less hi-tech.

Basically the method was:
• reproduce one half of the horn profile in a sweeping 40 inch arc
• cut these blanks to shape with the secondary profile
• integrate in the horn mouth

I don’t have a lot of pictures of the actual construction, but the key piece of machinery was an overhead router fashioned from a sturdy old 12 inch industrial radial arm saw. With a little extension of the travel for the overhead arm, this gave an easy way to adjust vertically, backwards and forwards, and the proper arc.

[Earl K]

Wow ! Staggeringly Beautiful !

As always John , you impress me to no end :)

Keep up the great work !

:applaud:

[John W]

Here are the “plans” and a couple construction pictures.

Check out the pile of sawdust. The material removed weighs more than the finished horns.

[John W]

I haven’t built the compensation network yet, the first step was to hook them up and produce some plots. These look fairly close to the plots previously posted for the 2435 on an h9800.

Zilch, any last minute pointers on modifying a compensation network to this measured response?

[edgewound]

**wolfwhistle**

Man o man....that's purty.

You got skills, dude.

[hjames]

You have such a beautiful way with wood!
Please - keep sharing your projects with us - I love seeing what you do!

Gorgeous stuff!



I recently finished constructing a pair of walnut h9800 horn copies based on the drawings put together for project May.

[Robh3606]

Very nice looking horns you got there

Rob:applaud:

[Hoerninger]

Very beautiful work! :applaud:
And thank you for the pictures.
___________
Peter

[matsj]

They look really really good. Very good job.

mats

[jbljfan]

Great work John. Absolutely gorgeous horns (unlike my tag line below).

It may be time to change that.

Mike

[rs237]

very good work, congratulation. :applaud:
I build the straight A300 horn for my 2441 and I hope and would be glad if it becomes as good as yours.

regards
juergen

[grumpy]

Nice job. I like the entry plate too.
-grumpy

[matsj]

Is there any difference in sound if you lay them down in horisontal position ?

mats

[John W]

Thanks everyone.
Next step is to get the compensation network together, work out the crossover and build a dedicated woofer section for the 2-way.
I'm looking for a pair of LE14H-3 if anyone knows where I can get some.

[John W]

Is there any difference in sound if you lay them down in horisontal position ?

mats

I tried that, but it's a little too early to tell. All the details on the crossover haven't been worked out. I'll keep you posted.

[matsj]

You can buy them new :) . I lost one pair of my drivers to my project, but i will look forward. Keep posting how it goes forward.

mats

[Zilch]

Zilch, any last minute pointers on modifying a compensation network to this measured response?Build the Timbers "Key" network (<$50 apiece) and post the resulting response.

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=143808#post143808

Looks like you need its notch at 1.8 kHz.

Here's what I got on H9800:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=137142#post137142

Beautiful horns, John.... :thmbsup:

[Joe Alesi]

John it looks superb. I really like your idea of using an overhead router on a radial arm:applaud: . I would say it took LOTS of passes of the router and heaps of sanding? for that shape. What sort of router bit did you use- I would have thought you needed a round bottomed radiused cutter, but it looks cylindrical in the photo.

Well Done

[John W]

I used a couple bits. The bit used most was a cove profile with a 1/2 inch radius. The top part of the bit that normally has the bearing was ground off a couple years ago for some other project. The one in the picture is a round bottom core box bit, this was used mainly on the inside profile.

It did take a lot of passes. One advantage of the setup is that there are two adjustments possible in the vertical direction. One by the arm of the saw, and the other by the vertical adjustment of the router housing. I carefully adjusted the bit to match the intended profile with the router at a fixed stop in the maximum downward position. Then for the other three blanks I could raise the router and take multiple light passes down to the final depth without having to re-adjust.

I actually finished off the profile with a spokeshave, scraper and sandpaper. This went pretty quickly since you are basically just knocking the tops off a bunch of little peaks, then sanding smooth to the bottom of the rounded valleys.

[Joe Alesi]

Excellent John,

I'd love to do the same thing for my 2441s. At one stage I contemplated several laminations of solid timber/ply cut into a thick cylinder say 24inches in diameter and 4 inches thick placed on a turntable bearing and rotated under some form of adjustable cutter- router, grinder with gouging wheel even a circualr saw blade at a compound angle and then sliced up like a cake into four quarters- enough for 2 horns- One day...

[Guido]

Beautiful John!

I wish I could do that but I'm more the "electrical" guy :(

[yggdrasil]

Again, let me say that your abilities with wood is simply amazing.

I made a similar jig last year when wanting another shape on tractrix horns. http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8363 After a few test rounds the resulting horn tested just fine.

Here's a picture of the system in development.

[grumpy]

To those producing and using plots... are you doing some sort of spatial averaging that
each other understands (such that combining plots and suggested frequency
tailoring might produce somewhat predictable results and avoid unnecessary
tweaks or concerns )? I'd like to see these horns perform as well as they are
capable :)

I don't recall reading any agreed-upon method (sorry if I've missed it).

-grumpy

[merlin]

Utterly gorgeous - you have made me very jealous!

When it comes to horns, there's an enviromental dilemna. Whether to destroy the earth's rain forests by over de-forestation, or to poison the atmosphere for our children with toxic byproducts of plastics manufacture.

I say let's lose those trees. You make them look so nice.

[Zilch]

To those producing and using plots... are you doing some sort of spatial averaging that each other understands...?http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=153633#post153633

[Mr. Widget]

As always... just beautiful John! :applaud:

From the pics it looks as though you decided to omit the fillet that starts out really tight in the bell and eventually grows to a full 0.75" radius at the mouth?

With my CNC, I couldn't keep this fillet in wood and had to resort to adding bondo as the fillet edge became knife edge thin and blew out... I wonder how leaving it out affects the sound?

In any event, it sure is pretty... nice work.


Widget

[Titanium Dome]

Very attractive horns. Congratulations on a fine result.

I'd allow a pair that wonderful-looking in my house, but eventually would want to pass them on to someone who really cherished them.

The overall design of the system is beautiful.

[sa660]

You turn wood in precious engineering creation.
Well done!!!
:applaud:

[JBLRaiser]

time for such an intricate project? A very impressive horn.:applaud:

[UreiCollector]

Absolutely STUNNING work!!! I'm impressed!!! :bouncy:

[John W]

As always... just beautiful John! :applaud:

From the pics it looks as though you decided to omit the fillet that starts out really tight in the bell and eventually grows to a full 0.75" radius at the mouth?



I pondered a couple methods to include this, eventually ending up with the modified approach shown in this picture. The radius is applied to the side pieces tapering about 4 inches back to the mouth. This provided a bit of the curve shown in the plan and smooth taper for the mouth. I was considering adding a little putty initially but have shelved that for now.

[Earl K]

From the pics it looks as though you decided to omit the fillet that starts out really tight in the bell and eventually grows to a full 0.75" radius at the mouth?

For the sake of clarification ( for the rest of us /OK, maybe mostly me ) ;
(i) What do you mean in your above statement ?

(ii) For Instance ;
- Isn't your referenced .75" measurement, the internal height ( that's somewhat parallel ), taken between the bottom & top portions of the internal bell ? ( ie ; the height of the internal diffraction slot that exists before the bell opens up )
- & "Really Tight" equates to what internal height, if it's not .75" ?


With my CNC, I couldn't keep this fillet in wood and had to resort to adding bondo as the fillet edge became knife edge thin and blew out...

- I can see that if this thin flat ribbon ( fillet ) was very narrow / then it would want to peel off ( or "blow off" as you say ) / especially with grained woods.
- Is this fillet area , the only area where the internal diffraction slot is truly parallel ( measured top to bottom ) ?


I wonder how leaving it out affects the sound?

- As I understand diffraction ; one does need a well defined knife-edge to create the necessary low ( impedance ) pressure zone to bend those small (HF) wavelengths.

(i) Rounding down that internal knife-edge to a more gradual transition ( curve ) should reduce HF diffraction by some measurable amount. This will move the characteristic of the horns" HF polar pattern, a bit more towards that of a true exponential ( so, a rounding creates a bit beamier horn ) / which may in fact improve the H9800(s)' imaging capabilities ( to some extent ) .

(ii) Rounding does add path length, which will usually aid in LF loading .

(iii) Here's a comparison of measured performance for Johns' horn versus an old response study for the H9800/435Be from Project May .
- The vertical scales are different ( Johns' is a little more "dramatic" because his scale is set to 8 db ).
- The horizontal scales are now about the same, after I resized the pics.
- There are some notable FR differences . ( I do like Johns' version, a bit more .)

- Just some ramblings & observations . ( John, I hope you don't mind my 2 cent analysis ) ;)


:)

[John W]

Looks like we were both writing at the same time.
I think Widget was writing about the radius where the vertical and horizontal curves come together.

Thanks for the side-by-side plots. I was just eyeing them before, but this is much clearer.

[scott fitlin]

Gorgeous woodwork.

Let us know how they sound!

:thmbsup:

[Earl K]

I think Widget was writing about the radius where the vertical and horizontal curves come together.

- Okay, that makes sense .
- I can see how making those rounded intersections between the horizontal & vertical parts ( immediately after entry to the horn but before the flat area of the diffraction slot ) / would be quite difficult . I like your approach. Smoothing with Bondo also seems an appropriate fix .

:p - I'll admit that I had to look up the definition of "fillet" , to even attempt to understand Widgets' question to you ( it appears, the dictionaries definition of "thin, flat, & ribbon-like", had me focusing on the wrong part of the horn ).



:)

[Mr. Widget]

I think Widget was writing about the radius where the vertical and horizontal curves come together. Yep... your solution to approximate it is quite clever... in my pedantic attempt to replicate the H9800 exactly, I found that the complex set of intersecting curves were just too difficult to pull off in wood... it is quite possible that your solution will be more than satisfactory. It certainly is an attractive looking final piece.


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

:p - I'll admit that I had to look up the definition of "fillet"...Oops... I try to speak plainly so that our foreign friends can easily follow along with the help of Webster... I guess I didn't realize fillet was a technical term, but in retrospect I guess it isn't used around most people's dinner tables.:) In my circle of friends, designers and engineers, it is a rather common term... but then we do tend to bore outsiders with our dinner conversations. :D


Widget

[John W]

Actually “fillet” would be used around most peoples dinner table, just in a different context. :p

[Mr. Widget]

Actually “fillet” would be used around most peoples dinner table, just in a different context. :p

:rotfl:

I imagine that there are those who'd call a Filet Mignon, a Fillet. :applaud:


Widget

[Maron Horonzakz]

At my dinner table, fillet would describe the blending of a fuselage and wing of a airplane.

[jtgyn]

G'Day John,
Great work!!
Regards Scott

[matsj]

Have you had some time to test the new horns yet ?

mats

[John W]

Not much new to report.
My current plan is to construct a couple cabinets with LE14H-3 drivers and configure them as 2-ways. I was going to wait for final testing and setup till this step was done. Starting with the compensation network I'll play around with a few different crossover options before deciding whether to keep the crossover active 2-way or try make a full passive crossover version.

I was able to order a pair of LE14H-3 directly from Harman. One is in the mail, but the other is on back order till the end of April or so.

I'm considering a couple cabinet designs for the woofer, mostly along the lines of the 1400 array. I want to mount the horn vertically, but need to work out a good way of transitioning the vertical horn to the rest of the cabinet.

[John W]

I’m just finishing up a new 2-way project to compliment my H9800 walnut horns. The two drivers are 2435HPL and LE14H-3. The walnut veneered boxes have curved sides and are roughly 3.25 ft3 vented out the back. I plan on tuning them to 28hz, and still need to adjust the 4in x 8.25in ports, they are little long. The design is modeled after the 1400 array, but I decided to extend the top up a little for a couple reasons. The first was a tad more internal volume and the second is to allow the horns to be securely positioned either vertically or horizontally.

Of course there is one problem as you probably noticed, UPS lost my other woofer. I don’t know how they stay in business. JBL is handling it nicely and sending a replacement, but unfortunately they are on backorder for 3 or 4 more weeks.

[John W]

My initial test was running bi-amp with an active crossover at 800hz, and the top end using the Timbers compensation filter. Listening in mono-mode the one box is sweet. The compensation filter really smoothed out the timbre on the 2435. I can’t wait for the whole package.

Here is plot in the listening room, about 3 feet back. And a couple construction

[Titanium Dome]

That's a beautiful design. Well done.

If it sounds nearly as good as it looks, you've made in intelligent and inspired investment of your time and talent.

:thmbsup:

[richluvsound]

Anyone can learn cad and cnc that, but what you done requires a real gift.
I would love to meet you sometime .It's what I call," S.F.M technology". Shear F-----G Majic.
Rich. JBL and Wood lover:applaud:

[glen]

Just Gorgeous!

[matsj]

Very good John.

mats

[Guido]

:coolness:

Uh! Ah!
Stunning work

[johnaec]

Truly amazing, John! I can't wait to hear your listening impressions once you get the other LF.

John

[John W]

Thanks for the nice comments.
Has anyone mated Timber's 2435hpl compensation filter up to a passive hi-pass, low-pass network? I am considering this for these. I think occasionally I might like to run them without the active crossover. Something around 750hz with a bi-amp switch.

[Robh3606]

I have been playing with the idea but I need to build my cabinets first. You might want to try the Array Crossover as a model. Should at least get you in the ball park. As always simply outstanding work. It's a real pleasure looking at your projects.

Rob:)

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10643

[4313B]

Thanks for the nice comments.
Has anyone mated Timber's 2435hpl compensation filter up to a passive hi-pass, low-pass network? I am considering this for these. I think occasionally I might like to run them without the active crossover. Something around 750hz with a bi-amp switch.Once again, the compensation filter is for the 435Be/H4338 horn combination. I'm not real sure who morphed it. Everyone should realize that non-trivial R & D went into it's design including the use of the Harman anechoic chamber. That said, you're welcome! :) I am ecstatic that someone has incorporated it into a superlative personal loudspeaker design. I'm not finished tweaking my full passive filter yet so I can't help you at this time.

I think you made a great choice in going with the LE14H-3 transducer. It is fantastic in the 3.5 to 4.0 cu ft volume tuned to 28 to 30 Hz. It has the extended low frequency bandwidth that the 1200FE and 1500AL lack. I would aquaplas those 2435HPL's for you but turn around time right now is several months (I have ten pair sitting on the bench to do right now).

Outstanding John!

[Guido]

Thanks for the nice comments.
Has anyone mated Timber's 2435hpl compensation filter up to a passive hi-pass, low-pass network? I am considering this for these. I think occasionally I might like to run them without the active crossover. Something around 750hz with a bi-amp switch.

I'll do a passive design similar to your setup soon. I still need some components. As soon as I receive them I'll finish my passive x-overs (750-800Hz). I have L.E.A.P available.
But I know that Giskard will be faster and I'm also interested in his results.

[4313B]

But I know that Giskard will be faster and I'm also interested in his results.Actually I won't be finishing mine up until Project May is finished. Fast I'm not. Thorough I am. My H4338's came in last week and I'll be seeing how they work with the Project May (Everest II) bottom end. Right now I am running the Project May bottom end with Tannoy DC's and the result is killer.

[John W]

Yes, thanks very much Giskard. I realize the filter isn't for the exact combination. Still lacking all the necassary facilities, its a good place to start. I've been meaning to have the drivers aquaplased, keep me updated if your backlog goes down.

[John W]

Fast I'm not. Thorough I am.
May the force be with you in your efforts.:)

[Earl K]

Hi John

Nice cabinetry work ! ( as always ) .

- Do you have any more pics that you could post that show the building stages ( I always love those ) ?

About those curved walls ;

- It appears you used the same approach that you used on your last curved wall enclosures . Is this correct ?

Would you please run through this procedure for us ( again ) / highlighting any deviations or evolutions from the original approach that you mght have made .

Thanks <> EarlK

[Shane Shuster]

Right now I am running the Project May bottom end with Tannoy DC's and the result is killer.

Are you using the old pepper pot style or the new tulip waveguides?

I was thinking of doing a 4-way with a pair of sub1500s I have. I would still need to find a driver to do 60-300hz-ish.

[Mr. Widget]

The design is modeled after the 1400 array, but I decided to extend the top up a little for a couple reasons. The first was a tad more internal volume and the second is to allow the horns to be securely positioned either vertically or horizontally.Very nice!!

I'll be very interested in your subjective evaluation comparing any tonal changes and especially any changes in the system's imaging between the horizontal and vertical modes.


Widget

[John W]

Hi John

Nice cabinetry work ! ( as always ) .

- Do you have any more pics that you could post that show the building stages ( I always love those ) ?

About those curved walls ;

- It appears you used the same approach that you used on your last curved wall enclosures . Is this correct ?

Would you please run through this procedure for us ( again ) / highlighting any deviations or evolutions from the original approach that you mght have made .

Thanks <> EarlK

I was able to dig up one other picture.

The construction is very similar to my other 3-way project. Time made me forget the amount of work involved, otherwise I might have gone more traditional.

Cut out the top, bottom and inside bracing to the proper cross section
Curf some 3/4" mdf about 1/2" through, every 1 1/2 inches across. (this takes some experimenting, depending on the radius of the curve)
Glue and screw the sides
Lay the back
Stick down some fiberglass mesh used for drywall seams perpendicular to the curfs
Apply a layer of 2-part polyester putty (bondo) to the inside of the box, forcing into the curfs as much as possible
Add a little more bracing
Glue on the 1" front baffle
Sand, veneer and finishA few pointers.

Cut the angles in the panel edges before attaching
Invest in a few good hand planes, you will need to add a couple 16ths to most pieces then plane them down after the glue dries
Secure the narrow end of box first with screws and glue, then bend over and clamp, screw, secure the face.On this project I used a polyurethane construction adhesive for most of the glue up.

http://www.stickwithpl.com/Products.aspx?ID=Premium-Polyurethane-Construction-Adhesive

This stuff works really well for mdf and internal bracing, especially for a project like this where a lot of the edges are finished by hand occasionally having a 1/32 gap here or there.

[Earl K]

John ,

Thanks very much for taking the time to assemble your thoughts about your construction method & then to post them . :p

The Bondo application looks neater ( smoother ) this time round , is it ? / or / is it just the camera angle ?

Do you ever worry about the bondo pulling away somewhat from the mdf & then beginning to rattle ? ( Obviously I'm not savvy about autobody/woodworking techniques , so I need to ask the stupid questions which might have obvious answers )

:)

[richluvsound]

Hi John,
I hope i'm not teaching you to suck eggs, but there is a company called West Systems. They make a resin system for boat and furniture building.
They supply a filler , colloidal silica. You add it to the resin to the required consistency then add the hardner. I use this whenever, time and budget allow. It is designed for the vertical application off resin and filleting joints . They have all kinds of systems that you may find inspiring.
They are an American company, so you should get much better deals than I get here in the UK.There are also generics around . The filler works with either epoxy or polyester.
This stuff is the best thing ever for lamination.
Clean up with acetone .I think lee valley may even sell it.
Rich

[John W]

So far, no issues. I guess you can check back in 20 years. :)
I doubt it will be a problem. It is reinforced with the fiberglass mesh, and forced down into the curfing. Because of the bend in the panels, the grooves are narrower at the top which would prevent a full section from peeling away.

[Earl K]

Thanks John !

:)

[Earl K]

,,, but there is a company called West Systems. They make a resin system for boat and furniture building.
They supply a filler , colloidal silica. You add it to the resin to the required consistency then add the hardner.

Thanks for that info Rich . It's always good to have another approach to consider ( apart from the "paralysis through analysis" perspective ).

:)

[John W]

I remember squishing bondo into the rusted quarter panels of my first car, which was a temporary solution at best. It has a well deserved negative reputation for automotive applications, but here it is much more in it’s element.

I’ve actually used West Systems fillers on some other projects. I have a nice strip built kayak hanging up in the garage from a few years ago that was laminated using these epoxies.

[Zilch]

Hi, John.

Flatten yer HF:

[Try 3 or 2 uF for yours, maybe.... :thmbsup: ]

[John W]

Thanks Zilch, that looks worthwhile! Is this covered elsewhere, or do you mean something like this?

[Zilch]

Thanks Zilch, that looks worthwhile! Is this covered elsewhere, or do you mean something like this?Yes, that's it. Seems you've changed it from my original, tho, which is what I'm using above, with R7 lowered to 6 Ohms. You'll need to tweak the values in that final parallel trap triad according to the response of your horn up there. Work one component at a time to see what they do.... :yes:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=22396&stc=1&d=1170208560

[John W]

Yes, that's it. Seems you've changed it from my original, tho, which is what I'm using above. You'll need to tweak the values in that final parallel trap triad according to the response of your horn up there. Work one component at a time to see what they do.... :yes:
I will. Thanks:applaud:

[matsj]

Make it really good :D i´ll copy it :) .

mats

[kartsmart]

So john how does it sound, Is it working out as a 2 way? All of us with these 2435's are still waiting for that right horn.:applaud:

[4313B]

All of us with these 2435's are still waiting for that right horn.:applaud:The H9800 has been that horn since the K2-S9800 came out. You'll need to aquaplas those 2435's to convert them to 435Be's though. Some guys think the 2435 sounds fine as is. If you're lucky enough to be one of them then you're done. Some guys also don't like the H9800. The H9800 and it's alternative are very difficult to get so that's why there hasn't been alot of talk about them. At one time it was thought that Mr. Widget would clone some for the few DIY people who could make use of such things since he was sent the prototype from JBL but it wasn't considered cost effective. They cost a bunch of money so they can't compete with Zilch's Q&D stuff.

[John W]

Sadly, I'm still waiting for my other woofer. :banghead: Nothing new to report yet. Hopefully another LE14H-3 will become available in the next couple weeks.

Giskard, when you aqualplas the diaphrams, do you wait till you have a bunch in house then do them all at once, or just spray them as they come in and time allows? I'd like a pair coated but don't want to be without them for too long.

[4313B]

Sadly, I'm still waiting for my other woofer. :banghead: Nothing new to report yet. Hopefully another LE14H-3 will become available in the next couple weeks.

Giskard, when you aqualplas the diaphrams, do you wait till you have a bunch in house then do them all at once, or just spray them as they come in and time allows? I'd like a pair coated but don't want to be without them for too long.Sorry about the LE14H-3. These are spare parts and it can take awhile. Notice how your LE14H-3's were packed? Neato eh?
Giskard, when you aqualplas the diaphrams, do you wait till you have a bunch in house then do them all at once, or just spray them as they come in and time allows? I'd like a pair coated but don't want to be without them for too long.I have a bunch that I am doing later this week. I would like to get them all repacked for shipping next Monday.

[John W]

The packaging is inadequate at best, and is a cause for concern. It wouldn’t take a lot of dropping to bust one of these woofers to bits. I’m guessing that’s what happened to the last one. Someone handled it too rough, could hear it bust , heard the pieces rattle around, then conveniently “lost” it rather than pass it along.

[Zilch]

Mr. Widget's H9800 clone (red) compared to factory original (green).

2435HPL #20 on Timbers "Key" filter plus parallel trap as specified, 1 kHz active highpass.

2 dB/division, bottom.

I'm done tweakin' these.... :yes:

[johnaec]

Aw, c'mon, Zilch - can't ya' do better than +/- 1dB up to 15K... :duck:

'Lookin' good! :thmbsup:

John


Mr. Widget's H9800 clone (red) compared to factory original (green).

2435HPL #20 on Timbers "Key" filter plus parallel trap as specified, 1 kHz active highpass.

2 dB/division, bottom.

I'm done tweakin' these.... :yes:

[Zilch]

Aw, c'mon, Zilch - can't ya' do better than +/- 1dB up to 15K... :duck:SCREW it, John. Last half-octave's down 3 dB. :banghead:

[Now I gotta find a matching driver here to play them STEREO.... :p ]

[John W]

Finally my other LE14H-3 arrived. I'm listening now in Stereo :D :D

Zilch, I'm still not clear on the exact network you are using to get that nice flat response. When I implemented it like the drawing in #70 it did exactly the opposite of what I wanted. I don't think I messed up the wiring?
Here is the result.

[John W]

I backed that out and lowered the capacitance of the last part, near the HF port, and brought it back to this:

[Zilch]

#70 is wrong. There's a duplicate parallel trap to common that doesn't belong there. Take that out, the 0.1 mH in parallel with 4.3 uF (8.2 uF + 9.1 uF). I don't know where it came from; I never posted that, I don't believe.

Look at #71, the version I worked up for PT waveguides....

Edit: Here's what I'm running to generate the curves in #79. The original series notch [1.6 mH, 5 uF (10uF + 10 uF), 5 Ohms] is included because H9800 and Widget's clone require it. Your horn may not. PT waveguides do not. Giskard illustrated what it does earlier.

If you find that works better, I've drawn up a fully biased version, also, bottom. 6.8 uF + 10 uF = 4.05 uF.

We're very close to achieving the same performance now.... :yes:

[John W]

Thanks for your help Zilch.
My crossover is the same as the charged coupled version, except: C5 and C6 are currently 6.3uf and 6.3uf, and I don't have the notch [1.6 mH, 5 uF (10uF + 10 uF), 5 Ohms]. What does this section do?

[Zilch]

Probably easier for me to measure it than to find Giskard's post.

It operates down at 1.8 kHz.

You can clearly see what my final parallel notch (in series with the driver) is doing, as well.

See also: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=163104&postcount=69

Suggestion: Turn off your LF when doing these tweaks. :yes:

[John W]

I think I found the post here:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=144967&postcount=12

[4313B]

Finally my other LE14H-3 arrived. I'm listening now in Stereo :D :D
That's a plus! :)

Let's get a post on your impressions of the pair?

I backed that out and lowered the capacitance of the last part, near the HF port, and brought it back to this:Pretty neato how all that stuff works huh?

What is your impression of the difference in how it all sounds though?


I'm done tweakin' these.... :yes:You're welcome for the direction and for the help. The real kicker is that they sound good and you just don't get that kind of information from your curves.

For those who have perfect hearing to 20 kHz and beyond the 045 can be added in on the top for additional ambience.



Now that you're done tweaking these get a pair of Mr. Widget's 1.5" horns to play with. I think they're TAD's but I could be wrong.

[Zilch]

Now that you're done tweaking these get a pair of Mr. Widget's 1.5" horns to play with. I think they're TAD's but I could be wrong.It's clear from my measurements above that his H9800 horn is nearly identical to the original in performance. I believe it is a TAD design he's working with more recently, and there's response curves posted in one of the threads here.


You're welcome for the direction and for the help. The real kicker is that they sound good and you just don't get that kind of information from your curves.Thank you, of course, Giskard, many times over!

Interestingly, there's a discernible difference in sonic character between the two, I suspect attributable to the different resonance characteristics of the materials. :dont-know

[Zilch]

Thanks for your help Zilch.
My crossover is the same as the charged coupled version, except: C5 and C6 are currently 6.3uf and 6.3uf, and I don't have the notch [1.6 mH, 5 uF (10uF + 10 uF), 5 Ohms]. What does this section do?From your curves, it doesn't look like you need that additional notch at 1.8 kHz to me.

Put the series leg of an L-Pad in place of R8, and you'll be able to see the realm of influence of the parallel trap as you dial it up and down. It looks like you need less resistance there to reduce its Q. L and C establish the frequencies between which the notch is generated....

[John W]

I can try adding the lpad, thanks. I'm running out of other parts to swap in and play around with.:)

I do have parts coming next week to add a passive low-pass hi-pass at 800hz. With the current network in bi-amp I have the hi-pass attenuator turned up all the way, so it looks like the level should be pretty close as is.
The pair sounds really good. I'll have to listen a little more and offer a better report.

[John W]

I had a request for some drawings of the cabinet. I haven't taken the time to purchase and learn any CAD tools yet, so this is the best I can do on short order. All the measurements are inches. The front is 1" mdf and the other 5 sides are 3/4".