'Nudder dumb question ....

[SEAWOLF97]

got my BGW 250d working with the Hafler DH-101 just fine , tho I realize the Hafler pre can be improved upon.

Was browsing my storage room and happened across a Denon PMA-777. Assuming that it works OK ,

1. Is this better than what I am currently using ?

2. Can I just use it as a preamp for the BGW by using the "tape-out" jacks ? Would this be an improvement ?

link to an eBaay auction for example pix and desc.....TIA4NFO...TOM

http://cgi.ebay.com/DENON-INTEGRATED-AMPLIFIER-PMA-777-MINT_W0QQitemZ270084880591QQihZ017QQcategoryZ3280Q QcmdZViewItem

[coherent_guy]

got my BGW 250d working with the Hafler DH-101 just fine , tho I realize the Hafler pre can be improved upon.

Was browsing my storage room and happened across a Denon PMA-777. Assuming that it works OK ,

1. Is this better than what I am currently using ?

2. Can I just use it as a preamp for the BGW by using the "tape-out" jacks ? Would this be an improvement ?

link to an eBaay auction for example pix and desc.....TIA4NFO...TOM

http://cgi.ebay.com/DENON-INTEGRATED-AMPLIFIER-PMA-777-MINT_W0QQitemZ270084880591QQihZ017QQcategoryZ3280Q QcmdZViewItem

1. I wouldn't think it is way better than the Hafler/BGW combo, though I don't know anything about the BGW. Whatts the watts of the BGW (250 - duh?) Which stuff is older?

2. You cannot use the tape-outs as preamp outputs, tape outs are fixed level outputs not controlled by the volume control at all. If you connected your amp to those you'd have a one volume level set-up, though it would be pretty damn loud but likely not clipping the amp. Not sure what JBL you use, but if they are big horn jobs you'd be doing the hanging on to the chair thing!!

Are you into modding equipment at all? You might try fixing up the Hafler, there are probably many mods for it out there. I've never owned one so I don't know anything in particular. Those well built Japanese amps were nice pieces, but I always thought they sounded a bit light in the bottom compared to a good American amp. They seemed to peter out into low impedance loads, some not liking four ohm loads even. Give that integrated a try, can't hurt, might be fun.

[loach71]

got my BGW 250d working with the Hafler DH-101 just fine , tho I realize the Hafler pre can be improved upon.

Was browsing my storage room and happened across a Denon PMA-777. Assuming that it works OK ,

1. Is this better than what I am currently using ?

2. Can I just use it as a preamp for the BGW by using the "tape-out" jacks ? Would this be an improvement ?

link to an eBaay auction for example pix and desc.....TIA4NFO...TOM

http://cgi.ebay.com/DENON-INTEGRATED-AMPLIFIER-PMA-777-MINT_W0QQitemZ270084880591QQihZ017QQcategoryZ3280Q QcmdZViewItem

Don't try this "work-around". The Hafler pre-amp is a respectable unit -- you would have to spend mucho $$ to get a BIG sonic improvement.

If you want to improve the DH-101 look around on the web -- some folks bypass all the caps in the signal path with polystyrene / polypropylene caps.

[grumpy]

Tom,
What speakers are you driving with these options? Ohm F's? I'd think the current
capability of the BGW would make for the better option. ...might be that the
convenience of an integrated is also worth something to you. You're the one in the
position to tell us what you think of the comparison... :) -grumpy

[SEAWOLF97]

You cannot use the tape-outs as preamp outputs, tape outs are fixed level outputs not controlled by the volume control at all.

yup I knew that..dumb question.

If you want to improve the DH-101 look around on the web -- some folks bypass all the caps in the signal path with polystyrene / polypropylene caps

I think it sounds fine,,heard a lot of people who think it not good...wish tone control was a little better so not as to resort to using EQ for XM broadcasts.

I guess its all MOOT. hooked it up today and only getting o/p from 1 channel. guess I'll haul it down to audio refurb shop, he usually buys my duds.

[SEAWOLF97]

If you want to improve the DH-101 look around on the web -- some folks bypass all the caps in the signal path with polystyrene / polypropylene caps

Looking for the BGW 202 or 203 , they seem quite rare, but I'm not in a big hurry. If someone spots a decent one , plse alert me.

thx
TOM

[coherent_guy]

I would recommend, in about the same league as what you are mentioning, a used Adcom preamp, or Parasound. The Adcom will have evil op-amps in it, though biased into class A, and Adcom usually gets some respect in the audio world. Adcom has tuner-preamps that aren't bad either. Parasound is also good for the price and are well designed and built without being high-end crazy price wise. If you need balanced outputs, the choices are narrowed down considerably, except for pro-type gear like the BGW, which I am unfamiliar with. Preamps are a pain in audio, they are pricey for what you get, it seems, and there are not that many choices in the sane price range.

If you like the Hafler, keep it, but maybe try another unit if you can borrow one from someone. If you can borrow a fancier unit and hear a difference, then go from there. But it will likely cost more than it may be worth to you. . . I like my used Krell preamp, but that was well over a grand. I also agree that mod-ing the Hafler would be a good option and should be easier with the Hafler unit since at least some of them were offered as kits. But I wouldn't drop big bucks on that, the money is better spent elsewhere.

In new units, some that are not bad price wise (relatively speaking) can be seen here, a good collection of what exists out there in consumer audio:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/products.asp?dept=12

I know, not cheap, but an FYI for ya, and I likes the purty pictures. . .

[Thom]

On most analog stuff that actually had pots for volume controls you could tap both ends for a tape out so you should be able to tap one end and the wiper maybe play with some resistances and get as good a preamp as the piece has to offer. Depending on the piece maybe good maybe not so good. A lot of Denon stuff had means for isolating the preamp from the power amp. Just a couple of jumpers on the back.