LE14H-3

[sourceoneaudio]

For everyones information. As of yesterday the LE14H-3 became available from JBL.
part number 336321-001 http://www.harmanaudio.com/images/pixel/trans_pixel.gif Woofer http://www.harmanaudio.com/images/pixel/trans_pixel.gif $279.93 1/23/2007This is the woofer that comes in the 1400 ARRAY BG Same driver as the LE14H-1 parameters run on each speakers are almost identical. The LE14H-3 is down 1db on output. other than that they are identical. The -3 driver has a rubber surround so no more re-foaming/rotting>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Put these in your 250TI's and enjoy the music.

J/S-S1A :bouncy::bouncy::bouncy::bouncy::bouncy:

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/partlist.asp?BrandId=JBL&MarketId=HOM&Parts=1400%20ARRAY%20BG

[Andyoz]

Thanks for posting that.

[sourceoneaudio]

Also the Mid Tweet Horn Array is available. Very cool item.


Part no: 339009-001 http://www.harmanaudio.com/images/pixel/trans_pixel.gif TWT UHF-045TI 1400 ARRAY(N 361016-001) http://www.harmanaudio.com/images/pixel/trans_pixel.gif $324.85

J/S-S1A :bouncy::bouncy::bouncy::bouncy::bouncy::bouncy:

[4313B]

For everyones information. As of yesterday the LE14H-3 became available from JBL.
part number 336321-001 http://www.harmanaudio.com/images/pixel/trans_pixel.gif Woofer http://www.harmanaudio.com/images/pixel/trans_pixel.gif $279.93 1/23/2007This is the woofer that comes in the 1400 ARRAY BG Same driver as the LE14H-1 parameters run on each speakers are almost identical. The LE14H-3 is down 1db on output. other than that they are identical. The -3 driver has a rubber surround so no more re-foaming/rotting>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Put these in your 250TI's and enjoy the music.

J/S-S1A :bouncy::bouncy::bouncy::bouncy::bouncy:
Thanks. We know. We asked JBL to run this several years ago and they graciously agreed. The EDS for both have been posted in the Transducer Section.

[John W]

Also the Mid Tweet Horn Array is available. Very cool item.
Part no: 339009-001 http://www.harmanaudio.com/images/pixel/trans_pixel.gif TWT UHF-045TI 1400 ARRAY(N 361016-001) http://www.harmanaudio.com/images/pixel/trans_pixel.gif $324.85

Isn't this just the UHF tweeter?

[4313B]

Isn't this just the UHF tweeter?Yes.

361016-001 is the 045Ti-1 which is aquaplased.
339009-001 is the 045Ti which is not aquaplased.

And then you have to find a horn for it.
Heck, you could build a nice horn John! :)

[sourceoneaudio]

They are attached.



http://www.jbl.com/home/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=1400%20ARRAY%20BG&Language=ENG&Country=US&Region=USA&cat=BFS&ser=PTS

J/S-S1A :blink:

[John W]

Yes.

361016-001 is the 045Ti-1 which is aquaplased.
339009-001 is the 045Ti which is not aquaplased.

And then you have to find a horn for it.
Heck, you could build a nice horn John! :)

I'm thinking TOTL 2-way :applaud:

The LE14H-3 was on my list, but are there sources for 1500AL, 1500FE, or 1200FE woofers also.

[4313B]

I'm thinking TOTL 2-way :applaud:

The LE14H-3 was on my list, but are there sources for 1500AL, 1500FE, or 1200FE woofers also?Yes.

[Andyoz]

To make sure I am reading this thread correctly, are we agreed that the LE14H-3 is a suitable substitution for the LE14H-1?

Looking at the plot above, there is nothing much between the 2 drivers over the operating range as used in the 250Ti. Are there any issues with the crossover network to consider?

I may need to use this option in the future :D

[4313B]

It's quite close for a 250Ti. A 240Ti might require a network tweak.

[Andyoz]

Yes, great.

If only there was a 044Ti substitute as well...........

[dino]

hello. I have a pair of L-250 will the le 14-h3 work or will I need to adjust the xover

[sourceoneaudio]

To match the output so the speaker is uniform from the woofer to the tweeter is to drop the buss bars down one notch on each driver. The output loss of 1db using the LE14H-3 is due to the moving mass going up .3 of an ounce if I'm correct due to the rubber surround. Hope this helps.
And yes you can put those drivers into L250's, 240TI's & 250TI's, as a replacement and have many years of no foam rotting happiness.

J/S-S1A :blink:

[Thom]

Would the surround, should there be a source, interchange?

[sourceoneaudio]

My re-foamer has stated to me at the moment no. If somethig comes up I will post it.

J/S-S1A :blink:

[4313B]

To match the output so the speaker is uniform from the woofer to the tweeter is to drop the buss bars down one notch on each driver. The output loss of 1db using the LE14H-3 is due to the moving mass going up .3 of an ounce if I'm correct due to the rubber surround. Hope this helps.
And yes you can put those drivers into L250's, 240TI's & 250TI's, as a replacement and have many years of no foam rotting happiness.

J/S-S1A :blink:Where did you come up with all this? I get 91.4 dB SPL 1W, 1m for the LE14H-3 and 91.3 dB SPL 1W, 1m for the LE14H-1 via a quick run through BB6P.

I would have to run a voltage drive on the 240Ti network with the LE14H-3 to conclude that the spike at 1.7 kHz was sufficiently attenuated.

*****

On second thought, it's probably good enough for this forum so carry on.

[edgewound]

Rubber surrounds rot, too.....just in a different manner....they crack....like the Cali Desert floor.

[sourceoneaudio]

I got the parameters on both drivers from this site, and I sent them onto a friend who ran them in a program to do the comparison. Who is a mechanical engineer. The technical data is also listed on the materials use to construct the LE14H-3 driver, and the buss bar movement to match up the the output to the woofer is an easy one. The cross over is marked on rear so you can tailor the sound the way you want (1db increments) don't know if JBL planned it that way but it will work. That would have taken lots of for site on there part.
And I think we will all be dead before the rubber rots, unless you sit it outside in the sun an Arizona...........


J/S-S1A :blink:

[sourceoneaudio]

What are the x-over points on the 240TI, because the spike @1.7k does not matter on the 250TI. If the network is anything close to the 250TI the mid comes in below 1.7k ????


J/S-S1A :blink:

[4313B]

What are the x-over points on the 240TI, because the spike @1.7k does not matter on the 250TI. If the network is anything close to the 250TI the mid comes in below 1.7k ????It might not matter on the 240Ti either. My point is, I'm going to check to make sure before I post that it's a bolt-in. That's all I'm getting at. Without good data I'm not going to commit. I probably should have bolted a pair of LE14H-3's into a pair of 240Ti's while I had both on hand but I didn't care enough to bother at the time. And I didn't think to run a voltage drive either. It simply wasn't on the adgenda. I'm sure several forum members are going to give it a try and report their impressions.

[sourceoneaudio]

I see the spike you are talking about. If the x-over points are below that issue area then that is a good thing. It is neat to see that they are identical up to 400hz the reduction in output is evident between 400hz and 600hz. It also looks to me to be more than 1db. This gives people a + direction to go with L250, 250TI's and 250BQ's, for fixing them since that is the x-over point. (400hz & 350hz on the BQ)



J/S-S1A :D:D:D:D:D

[opimax]

some of us (me :)) have a bad 14-1 and go into withdrawal if I can't turn it up.

Since GT designed and built these speakers my thoughts are would he have used a 14-3 if it were available at that time?

I am a little hesitant to modify my XO not a skill I have. I just got them and haven't heard my speakers w/both working woofers yet. I don't think I want to send them back to Germany just due to time. If it is a bolt in and equavilant then great but if it is anything backwards I would rather keep my 14-1

If i go to 14-3 i will need 2 while the 14-1 at this time only requires 1 unit 1 recone. part of this equation is what is really available (to me) now...I trust my supplier to give me the right info :)

Mark

[Zilch]

And I think we will all be dead before the rubber rots, unless you sit it outside in the sun an Arizona...........http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=12357

[4313B]

I see the spike you are talking about. If the x-over points are below that issue area then that is a good thing.It depends on how much lower, as well as the crossover slope.
It is neat to see that they are identical up to 400hz the reduction in output is evident between 400hz and 600hz. It also looks to me to be more than 1db.That could just be specific driver anomalies. I'd have to actually see a bunch of curves. I believe Jerry said that he pulled that particular LE14H-1 out of Greg's 250Ti in his office to run the comparison for me. I think it was running the current Mogami cone as opposed to the original Hawley cone. It was concluded that the LE14H-3 was probably a bolt-in for the L250 and 250Ti, but then someone tried it and reported that the sound character was "different". Who knows what that was about. We'll see as people try it out.

[sourceoneaudio]

Which speakers are you running? 250's or 240's??? If 240's all we need to do is find out the x-o points this will help point you in the right direction. If the mid comes in lower than the spike in the -3 driver than it's a clean swap out. I might be able to find out for you. I can see if my friend has a service manual on them. I also might have a LE14H-1 for sale needing a re-cone but we have no kits ava. so that will not help>>>>>>>>>>

J/S-S1A :blink:

[Andyoz]

Who's game to try it then (?)...not me as my pair of LE14H-1's have got plenty of life left in them :)

[4313B]

G.T. says do it. It's a bolt-in. He's already tried it for a buddy with 250Ti's and it worked fine.

Same with 240Ti but if you already have the switches at -2 dB it might be a problem. If it is a problem I'd probably see if I could remove some insertion loss in the LF inductor. Go with a low DCR Erse maybe.


Since GT designed and built these speakers my thoughts are would he have used a 14-3 if it were available at that time?It would seem so.

[sourceoneaudio]

Are not the x-overs 18db per octave in both speakers? I'm looking at the network as we speak on a 250TI. That is a sharp enough slope and if x-over point is below spike I would think it would not be noticeable at all.???

J/S-S1A :bouncy:

[sourceoneaudio]

Also if my plan does not work out I will be buying a pair of them for the 250TI's I rebuilt and I will do the test, and let you all know the outcome.......

J/S-S1A :applaud::applaud::applaud::applaud:

[DavidF]

For everyones information. As of yesterday the LE14H-3 became available from JBL.
part number 336321-001 http://www.harmanaudio.com/images/pixel/trans_pixel.gif Woofer http://www.harmanaudio.com/images/pixel/trans_pixel.gif $279.93 1/23/2007This is the woofer that comes in the 1400 ARRAY BG Same driver as the LE14H-1 parameters run on each speakers are almost identical. The LE14H-3 is down 1db on output. other than that they are identical. The -3 driver has a rubber surround so no more re-foaming/rotting>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

Put these in your 250TI's and enjoy the music.

J/S-S1A :bouncy::bouncy::bouncy::bouncy::bouncy:

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/partlist.asp?BrandId=JBL&MarketId=HOM&Parts=1400%20ARRAY%20BG

Oh oh, showing not available already. Maybe only one day only sale.

DavidF

[sourceoneaudio]

I can't believe they sold out in one day or so. Yesterday they showed not ava. at one point and then I went back 2hrs later and they were up again. Maybe a glitch???????


J/S-S1A :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: :banghead:

[4313B]

Oh oh, showing not available already. Maybe only one day only sale.

I can't believe they sold out in one day or so.They're just spare parts, usually "not good enough" cosmetically to go into a production loudspeaker system. JBL Consumer doesn't keep this stuff on hand anymore since they are no longer in the Loudspeaker Components Series business. Add to wish list so your pair will be added to a production run. You'll get them eventually, it just takes patience.

[4313B]

Are not the x-overs 18db per octave in both speakers? I'm looking at the network as we speak on a 250TI. That is a sharp enough slope and if x-over point is below spike I would think it would not be noticeable at all.???

J/S-S1A :bouncy:6 dB per octave on the LE14H-1 in the 250Ti and 12 dB per octave on the LE14H-1 in the 240Ti.

If G.T. says the LE14H-3 is a bolt-in, and he just did forty minutes ago, then that's good enough for me.

[sourceoneaudio]

I was referring to the slope on the 104H being 18db per octave. I also see in the network for the 250TI a 12db per octave network for the LE14H-1. 6.0mh coil in series and a 24uf cap parallel. With imp. correction components.

J/S-S1A:blink:

[4313B]

I was referring to the slope on the 104H being 18db per octave. I also see in the network for the 250TI a 12db per octave network for the LE14H-1. 6.0mh coil in series and a 24uf cap parallel. With imp. correction components. I think I posted years ago what each component of the filter was doing. I don't feel like looking for it right now.

The 24 uF parallel capacitor is part of the RC conjugate that flattens the impedance curve of the LE14H-1. It works in conjunction with it's 7.5 ohm resistor. I've posted numerous examples of these filters.

Here is the 250Ti low pass filter fed into an 8 ohm dummy load. Without conjugate, with conjugate and with the resistor removed from the 24 uF capacitor creating a true 2-pole filter.

[Thom]

Rubber surrounds rot, too.....just in a different manner....they crack....like the Cali Desert floor.

I'm sure that your experience with rubber surrounds compared to mine is probably 1000 to 1 or more so I'm not trying to bump heads or anything but rubber as well as being a narrowly defined material that surrounds may or may not have been made out of is a rather generic term covering probably probably hundreds of products and in my time on the internet trying to source things, (self abuse comes in many forms) I've found that "rubber" surrounds are made of at least a dozen compounds and I would guess many more so yes rubber surrounds do rot but not all of them and I have no idea what these are made of. I would think that made of identical substances foam would go first if it is exposure to the environment that gets them, just because it has more surface area.

[Thom]

My re-foamer has stated to me at the moment no. If somethig comes up I will post it.

J/S-S1A :blink:

No it wouldn't interchange, or no there isn't a source?

[edgewound]

No it wouldn't interchange, or no there isn't a source?

For the mechanical properties of the transducer to remain as designed, you'd have to find a rubber surround identical to the original foam...which is a tough proposition. They're also more difficult to glue.

Rot is not the only wear related problem, either. The rubber compound surround will also wear at the fulcrum point at it's attachment. Foam is more forgiving at the fulcrum point due to the internal damping and air pockets to dissipate stored energy....heat. That heat build-up at the fulcrum points will eventually lead to a split. This is usually attributable to high excursion usage.....

But hey....I'll stick to my original statement. Rubber surrounds rot too.

[4313B]

Rot is not the only wear related problem, either.Absolutely. Some of the newest JBL transducer designs specifically address spider fatigue in a whole new way.

[Primus]

I have been playing with the new woofers for a couple of weeks now, the bass is astonishing and it fills the room. On Leftfield, I sometimes wonder if I have got a Kappa system. But, occasionally, The tweeter and the midrange seems to be a bit high.... I am a devoted fan to Yello, and Dieter Meier`s voice, but I have not heard him as a "snake" before.....:). My buddy and I played a lot, last night, while my wife went out for a walk, and the high frequency got into a more normal state... He also was impressed by the attack in the bass:applaud:.

I have ordered the midrange from Harman also, I thought it was a good thing to do, you`ll never know when they will be out of parts...:dont-know:.

Any replies/experiences?

Sincerely Primus.:)

[JeffW]

You know my advice/experience - be prepared to wait a long time. But your woofers got there pretty quick, hopefully you'll have good luck with the mids as well.

[Primus]

You know my advice/experience - be prepared to wait a long time. But your woofers got there pretty quick, hopefully you'll have good luck with the mids as well.


But did you experience any change in the overall soundclarity in the tweeter and the midrange? I played som hours, yesterday, and the high frequencies got more "back to normal" and the bass in Roger Waters "amused to death" was breathtaking!!:D:D They have never played so loud and heavy...... seems like they`re getting more signal/higher signal..... I have not changed the midrange yet, Harman says they will arrive in 2-3 days:applaud:....

Primus.:)

[JeffW]

But did you experience any change in the overall soundclarity in the tweeter and the midrange? I played som hours, yesterday, and the high frequencies got more "back to normal" and the bass in Roger Waters "amused to death" was breathtaking!!:D:D They have never played so loud and heavy...... seems like they`re getting more signal/higher signal..... I have not changed the midrange yet, Harman says they will arrive in 2-3 days:applaud:....

Primus.:)

I never used the LE14-3 woofers, and haven't changed anything on the 250Ti, but also haven't used them in several years.

[Primus]

I never used the LE14-3 woofers, and haven't changed anything on the 250Ti, but also haven't used them in several years.

Ok. Do you know someone who might have changed them? Or is there anyone here in the forum who did so? I see that the thread is from 2007, so perhaps someone took the opportunity...... I see that members discussed some of the challanges I might experience.... :)


Primus.

[johnhere]

Hello, does anyone have the T/S file of LE14H-3? Just wanna know something about it. Such as Xmax and Sd. Links in this thread are all dead... Thanks.

[cooky1257]

Hello, does anyone have the T/S file of LE14H-3? Just wanna know something about it. Such as Xmax and Sd. Links in this thread are all dead... Thanks.

Search is your friend. http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?11317-LE14H-3

[johnhere]

Search is your friend. http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?11317-LE14H-3

Thanks buddy, as usually, it doesn't mention xmax... I gotta find a way to contact Mr. Jerry Moro and ask him about the xmax... Btw, Is Moro already a member here?

[speakerdave]

Thanks buddy, as usually, it doesn't mention xmax... I gotta find a way to contact Mr. Jerry Moro and ask him about the xmax... Btw, Is Moro already a member here?

He would probably tell you, if you managed to get through his bug screen, and then he might suggest that next time you just subtract the top plate thickness from the voice coil winding depth, and that would be close enough.

[JeffW]

Why the burning desire to know the xmax on all the JBL woofer line up?