Aftermarket Replacement Diaphragms

[4313B]

Due to recent posts and the interest in aftermarket replacement diaphragms, after six years of doing so, I am no longer sourcing genuine JBL replacement diaphragms at deep discount for forum members. This was one of the perks for members of this forum only and was never once offered outside of this forum. I've been notified that the aftermarket diaphragms work just fine and sound just fine so there is virtually no reason to continue with this perk. I'm sure there are several forum members who will step forward and provide whatever data someone might feel is necessary. I am through with this subject and don't intend to respond further.

Thanks! :)

[spkrman57]

It seems that since so many believe they can shortcut and use aftermarket diaphrams which goes against JBL's philosophy of using genuine JBL parts.:(

If you want the best sound JBL intended their products for, then you have to use the correct parts!;)

Ron

[Mr. Widget]

Due to recent posts and the interest in aftermarket replacement diaphragms, after six years of doing so, I am no longer sourcing genuine JBL replacement diaphragms at deep discount for forum members.Good.

You should only do that sort of things for friends anyway.


I've been notified that the aftermarket diaphragms work just fine and sound just fine so there is virtually no reason to continue with this perk.You and I both know that is BS. As far as I know the best aftermarket diaphragms will play music but do not perform up to the levels of the factory spec'd units sold by JBL... that said, I think the beef others had on the previous thread was that they felt willing to accept that compromise. Personally I find that mindset disappointing. This site is a celebration of the legacy of James Lansing, a man who refused to compromise. He was always pushing the envelope to produce the finest drivers possible. I know that you and I and many others agree with his principals... but they are not universally shared. For some, close is good enough.


Widget

[scott fitlin]

I have always said use JBL parts, period. It guarantees specified performance of your JBL drivers.

However, some people use aftermarket parts because they are less expensive, and possibly for some, the cost is an issue. I dont recommend aftermarket parts, but, I can understand some peoples position on using them.

Some people find certain aftermarket parts to be more durable, not as good sonically, but, in certain PA apps, the user deems this acceptable. Again, I dont support this, but I understand it.

A few people really think certain aftermarket brand parts simply sound better than JBL,s original parts, I dont support this either, but, its their drivers, its their choice.

However, I respect everyones right to make their own choices. I make mine, as well. With my JBL components, I use JBL parts exclusively.

[Rolf]

I totally agree using ONLY original JBL parts. That is ... among other statements I have posted before: do NOT re-foam, RE-CONE your drivers with original JBL parts. Re-foaming is a gamble and I am sure some quality is removed doing this.

[moldyoldy]

I suspect that many of those that are too cheap to buy the correct 'frams are the same ones that will spend big $ on botique caps to "upgrade" their XOs......go figure.

Maybe I'm wierd....OK, I AM wierd.....but I won't buy parts from anyone that doesn't publish test data or specs for applicable items, whether it's a 'fram, cap, or whatever. However, if I saw an item I needed with better specs than OEM for less $, I'd sure give it a try.

[briang]

I can see no valid reason to seek aftermarket components/diaphrams whenever the actual OEM JBL parts are available.

The intial cost for aftermarket items may be less, but in nearly every case something is compromised; be it fit, finish, response, whatever...and in my opinion and observation, the cost of low quality is actually very high. :barf: Don't believe me? Just ask Mr. Taguchi about his world famous loss function.;)

[Mr. Widget]

Re-foaming is a gamble and I am sure some quality is removed doing this.Interesting point... Bo recently replaced his refoamed 2122s with reconed 2122s and he discovered a major improvement... so yeah, once again it does cost more to do the job correctly, but the difference is real.

Of course if the JBL factory kit is NLA your choices do become rather limited.


Widget

[scott fitlin]

Of course if the JBL factory kit is NLA your choices do become rather limited.


Widget[/quote]I would agree that in some instances where the original is NLA your choices are very narrow, but, its almost 100% certain that what is available as repair/replacement parts are not the same sounding as what original parts were.

And, when you begin encountering this, its time to begin seeking NEW components to fit your needs.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I think the issue is getting them installed by a JBL installer. JBL Parts are therefore no Brainer. I mean watch a home user install a JBL recone kit, it ain't pretty. Therefore selling diaphragms as opposed to installing them is perhaps "Not Best JBL Practise".

Most home users don't do it right and end up with B grade results (after market results anyway)..Go figure!

[Ducatista47]

I am totally on board with this. I would love to refresh the diaphrams on my compression drivers, but until (if and when) I can afford to have it done right with the right parts, I am not going to do it. These great speakers deserve genuine parts. You know how we all vomit when we see a nice pair of classic JBL's or Altecs with Cerwin Vegas installed? This is not so different.

My crossovers are going down the upgrade path using some of the methods Greg Timbers suggested. How soon do you think Greg Timbers will suggest putting aftermarket diaphrams in the DD66000? The phrase over his dead body seems appropriate.

(Edit; Reason, some remarks by others that follow.) Now if something were available that actually was better, we might like that choice even if it were to be more expensive. And certain Harman employees would unofficially recommend it, I think.

Clark in Peoria

[Thom]

It's quite possible that there has never been an after market part as good as an original JBL part, I really dont know, I'm sure there are plenty after market parts that are inferior. Especialy when they are being built to a price. But, the idea that there could never be a part not made by JBL that would sound as well or better in their driver has to be rejected in theory. If one were to follow your logic to it's end a TAD could never equal let alone be better than a JBL, and while I don't Know if it does or it doesn't I do know that many forum members believe they are better. The fact that you have reacted in this way saddens me. I never was aware that they were available. I understand that it's your football but I think all of this "It's my football an I'm going to take it and go home" is rather unbecoming. You probably bring an awful lot to the table (I'm afraid that I'm not entirely sure of your position but I pick up on things enough to relize that you are pretty important and since I'm not very good at being politic, even when I'm trying to, I may be committing some form of Hiri Kiri. You probably feel put upon and taken advantage of a bit and it may be so but I keep getting the feeling that if I just look up I may see Charlton Heston with a couple of stone tablets under his arm. In short it seems to me to make more sense to say "you shouldn't use aftermarket parts because : 1.
2.
3.
and so on after all everybody who ever made a device with parts that wear out has said that you should only use theirs. I hope you didn't use my earlier post as one indicating that after market parts are as good as JBL because I would only say that if I knew it to be true and I don't all I did was take exception to your statement which had less chance of being right than a test question with always or never in it. I for one will miss the oppurtunity that I never Knew I had. Unfortunatly I don't have a football of my own to save the day with.

[ayaboh]

I for one will miss the oppurtunity that I never Knew I had. Unfortunatly I don't have a football of my own to save the day with.

Hmm....
What if this forum had a sticky thread called "Who supplies what", or "Who can supply what".

I know that Zilch has blue fabric, Giskard has networks, and sonofagun has foam grills, but thats about it. I didn't realize that Giskard also had diaphragms. What else is out there?

[Ian Mackenzie]

I understand that it's your football but I think all of this "It's my football an I'm going to take it and go home" is rather unbecoming. Unfortunatly I don't have a football of my own to save the day with.

Can I ask are you referring to an American football or an Aussie Rules footy (or an Italian football)? Its supposed to be a team sport but they tend to spend a lot of the time getting into trouble on and of the field.

But I've never seen a situation where one guy has it and walks off calling no joy over a bad bounce.:o:

[JBLRaiser]

[quote=Giskard;138267]Due to recent posts and the interest in aftermarket replacement diaphragms, after six years of doing so, I am no longer sourcing genuine JBL replacement diaphragms at deep discount for forum members. This was one of the perks for members of this forum only and was never once offered outside of this forum. I've been notified that the aftermarket diaphragms work just fine and sound just fine so there is virtually no reason to continue with this perk. I'm sure there are several forum members who will step forward and provide whatever data someone might feel is necessary. I am through with this subject and don't intend to respond further.

Thanks! :)[/quote.

Just a thanks for your effort. Many have benefitted.

[Tom Brennan]

Some of you guys are kind'a obsessive about all this and it seems a bit snobby. I had a set of 2420s with Radians that were properly installed by a tech, "bumped in" and they worked and sounded fine and sounded better to me than brand new 2427s I had at the time. And I saved a few bucks.

There are scads of these compression drivers around, they're all over the place. I've been given the things, they're not family heirlooms nor Holy Relics. They're machines, that's all. Better to have them working with Radians than being useless lumps sitting on a shelf.

[4313B]

It's quite possible that there has never been an after market part as good as an original JBL part, I really dont know, I'm sure there are plenty after market parts that are inferior. Especialy when they are being built to a price. But, the idea that there could never be a part not made by JBL that would sound as well or better in their driver has to be rejected in theory. If one were to follow your logic to it's end a TAD could never equal let alone be better than a JBL, and while I don't Know if it does or it doesn't I do know that many forum members believe they are better. The fact that you have reacted in this way saddens me. I never was aware that they were available. I understand that it's your football but I think all of this "It's my football an I'm going to take it and go home" is rather unbecoming. You probably bring an awful lot to the table (I'm afraid that I'm not entirely sure of your position but I pick up on things enough to relize that you are pretty important and since I'm not very good at being politic, even when I'm trying to, I may be committing some form of Hiri Kiri. You probably feel put upon and taken advantage of a bit and it may be so but I keep getting the feeling that if I just look up I may see Charlton Heston with a couple of stone tablets under his arm. In short it seems to me to make more sense to say "you shouldn't use aftermarket parts because : 1.
2.
3.
and so on after all everybody who ever made a device with parts that wear out has said that you should only use theirs. I hope you didn't use my earlier post as one indicating that after market parts are as good as JBL because I would only say that if I knew it to be true and I don't all I did was take exception to your statement which had less chance of being right than a test question with always or never in it. I for one will miss the oppurtunity that I never Knew I had. Unfortunatly I don't have a football of my own to save the day with.Good grief some of you guys are beyond tiresome. Go here and fill up the shopping cart:

http://www.speakerrepair.com/ocsdiaphragms.html

You can get diaphragms all over the Internet. I just don't need to hear about it anymore and that's a good thing.

Some of you guys are kind'a obsessive about all this and it seems a bit snobby. I had a set of 2420s with Radians that were properly installed by a tech, "bumped in" and they worked and sounded fine and sounded better to me than brand new 2427s I had at the time. And I saved a few bucks.

There are scads of these compression drivers around, they're all over the place. I've been given the things, they're not family heirlooms nor Holy Relics. They're machines, that's all. Better to have them working with Radians than being useless lumps sitting on a shelf.That's the long and short of it.

[Rolf]

Good grief some of you guys are beyond tiresome. Go here and fill up the shopping cart:

http://www.speakerrepair.com/ocsdiaphragms.html



I just ordered 2 pcs of everything on their site. Never know what could be needed in the future.:p

[4313B]

I just ordered 2 pcs of everything on their site. Never know what could be needed in the future.:pOutstanding! They could be out of stock when you actually need them but with your proactive solution you've just circumvented that possibility.

[Gary L]

I don't know what I have missed here but it has always been my feeling if you have a JBL L-300 and you reload it with say EV or Eminence drivers, you can't call it a JBL L 300 any more.

I have to totally agree with Giskard here so I will check back after I finish putting this Pinto Engine in my Beemer.:banghead: :banghead:

Gary

[Tom Brennan]

"after I finish putting this Pinto Engine in my Beemer"


That would make it more reliable.

But yeah Gary, if you want to keep a specific speaker going, an L-300 as you say, then you want to use exact replacement parts. But if you have some old compression drivers laying around and just want to get them working and working well then Radians will do the trick.

To accept compromises depending on the application, I think that's reasonable

[hjames]

"after I finish putting this Pinto Engine in my Beemer"


That would make it more reliable.

Nah, still got the Beemer computer and related electronics -
I swear, I think they bought the leftover spares from Lucas!

[Maron Horonzakz]

BMW could give away there heaps & just make a bigger profit in parts....$300. plus install... for a wiper motor? jeeeeez!!!

[Gary L]

The point still remains, Are you upgrading your "Machine" or slapping a band-aid into it.
The purists among us, me being one of them, will always fall on the side of keeping things real and stock.
Someone above mentioned the fact that these are infact yours and you can do what ever you like with them. I have some of my own opinions there but they will remain in the dark for the purpose of this discussion.

I don't own a piece of JBL equipment but plenty of Altec. I have a couple of Radian diaphragms that came in drivers from ebay. If I ever have an altec one burn out I would use these to hold me over until GPA gets a new one at twice the price to me. Remember too that with altec drivers the switch is simple and no brain surgery or allignments are necessary.

I guess the real question is two fold. Why bother buying, keeping or accepting JBL gear if you have no intention of maintaining it with correct parts. Secondly, why bother comming to the Lansing Heritage site where the entire purpose is in maintaining the sonic purity and history of JBL and Lansing products and posting about some aftermarket less expensive and unproven part.

No one said you can't but more then a few think it is pretty foolish! YMMV

Gary

[Mr. Widget]

To accept compromises depending on the application, I think that's reasonable...Absolutely, however your statement, "I had a set of 2420s with Radians that were properly installed by a tech, "bumped in" and they worked and sounded fine and sounded better to me than brand new 2427s I had at the time." May lead a novice to believe that placing a non spec diaphragm in his driver will be just as good... it won't be. The Pinto engine may be more reliable (doubt it... pick something else) but it absolutely will not perform as well... as the original engine in top shape.

These things may only be machines, but the fact that a rather poor performing machine (by objective standards) like the JBL Paragon commands such a high price is an indication of their value to some people... you may not share that opinion and that is fine.

If you are not particular, or you really know what you are doing you can choose aftermarket diaphragms and make them work for you... one case would be Meyer Sound who took Yamaha drivers and fit them with custom made diaphragms for greater power handling... though with their JBLs they would buy 2445s and toss the stock diaphragms and replace them with JBL sourced 2441 diaphragms... in all cases they remove the locating pins and shim and center every driver's diaphragm by hand while looking at the output on a scope... for the average user, even buying aftermarket Be diaphragms will likely not be a guaranteed improvement. That said, if you are in the "it plays so I am happy camp", then definitely why waste the money... then again why not just buy Eminence to begin with.


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

A bit off topic, but last night I was poking around with Google's new patent search and I stumbled on this beryllium diaphragm patent from 1927! It must be the first ever Be diaphragm.


Widget

[Tom Brennan]

"Why bother buying, keeping or accepting JBL gear if you have no intention of maintaining it with correct parts. "

To put it to use.

"Secondly, why bother comming to the Lansing Heritage site where the entire purpose is in maintaining the sonic purity and history of JBL and Lansing products"

I was unaware that you determine what the "entire purpose" of this site is.

[Gary L]

I stand corrected Tom, I was quoting this.

Dedicated to the preservation of the heritage and history of the Altec
Lansing Corporation, and to the supplying of information regarding the use, installation, and upkeep of all Altec Lansing Professional Audio Products.

However it is from another site I visit regularly!



"Why bother buying, keeping or accepting JBL gear if you have no intention of maintaining it with correct parts. "

To put it to use.

"Secondly, why bother comming to the Lansing Heritage site where the entire purpose is in maintaining the sonic purity and history of JBL and Lansing products"

I was unaware that you determine what the "entire purpose" of this site is.

[Maron Horonzakz]

Thats not carved in stone, is it?

[edgewound]

In my 18+ years as an Authorized JBL Service Agency, never have I found aftermarket parts that are as good as the JBL Factory designed/assembled/sourced parts. I'm a professional...and a casuals working musician that knows what to expect from my JBL's...and yours. The imitations have never gotten it right....close just isn't good enough...in sound and particularly reliability.

The usual reason for using aftermarket parts for JBL tranducers is an economic one....and it certainly isn't a crime. I think I've stated that before.

However....when one gets into the debate of the merits of JBL vs. Aftermarket parts on this site that was dedicated to being purist of the Lansing breed, you have to expect a backlash from the purist camp.
Simply stated... the aftermarkets aren't equivalent to factory parts.

I will sell you aftermarket parts if that's what you are willing to pay for...but I will also give you the caveat of diminished performance.

To each his own...but please don't include aftermarket and genuine JBL parts in the same league....because they aren't.

Resuspending low frequency drivers is a whole 'nother discussion

[Thom]

The point still remains, Are you upgrading your "Machine" or slapping a band-aid into it.
The purists among us, me being one of them, will always fall on the side of keeping things real and stock.
Someone above mentioned the fact that these are infact yours and you can do what ever you like with them. I have some of my own opinions there but they will remain in the dark for the purpose of this discussion.

I don't own a piece of JBL equipment but plenty of Altec. I have a couple of Radian diaphragms that came in drivers from ebay. If I ever have an altec one burn out I would use these to hold me over until GPA gets a new one at twice the price to me. Remember too that with altec drivers the switch is simple and no brain surgery or allignments are necessary.

I guess the real question is two fold. Why bother buying, keeping or accepting JBL gear if you have no intention of maintaining it with correct parts. Secondly, why bother comming to the Lansing Heritage site where the entire purpose is in maintaining the sonic purity and history of JBL and Lansing products and posting about some aftermarket less expensive and unproven part.

No one said you can't but more then a few think it is pretty foolish! YMMV

Gary

Look I'm not hawking any aftermarket parts but I question that this is actualy true. I also question that in at least some cases it must be theoreticlly possible for another company to make a part that would make a JBL driver better. I am not aware of any but that is beside the point. If we all think lock step with JBL why are we working mostly on devices that they have all but abandoned? I don't want quoted saying any other diaphragm is as good as JBL. I've made no such statement. I also have not said that that no one else does as I don't know but this isn't religeon. Except for a very few among us JBL doesn't know us or care a lot one way or the other about us. It wouldn't hurt for those very few to introduce themselfs but perhaps they have their reasons not to. I don,t understand this getting so overheated. You would think someone had badmouthed your football team or for some insulted your god. I don't get it. Ian, I thought your football was the same as ours you just don't understand the rules.

[edgewound]

If we all think lock step with JBL why are we working mostly on devices that they have all but abandoned? .

Thom....that is where you are mistaken.

JBL hasn't abandoned them. They still make parts for drivers that are over 50 years old.

[speakerdave]

I've always been puzzled by aftermarket diaphragms. My picture of them is that they are needed by bands who use Behinger electronics, and such, and throw microphones. For high fidelity where a new diaphragm may be needed every 15 or twenty years the idea is ridiculous.

If someone is looking to cheap into compression drivers and horns, look for Emilar drivers which were designed, I have read, by Jonas Renkus, engineer emeritus of Altec. They were made in 1" and 2" versions and Alnico and ferrite and sell for dirt. They can be fitted to either Altec or JBL horns, or, naturally, Emilar. Best of all, though the company Emilar is dead and Plus One Engineering which apparently once intended to continue producing the horns has been sidetracked into making sirens, the diaphragm technology has been inherited by Radian, which I believe is a serious company, so the diaphragms for Emilar which you buy from them will be like original equipment.

Somehow the human element is overlooked. Giskard makes the effort to close the cost gap between the JBL diaphragms and the others, which for good reason he eschews, and discussion about their viability is bound to grate.

David

[Ian Mackenzie]

http://www.radianaudio.com/products/diaphragms/diaphragms.php?viewT=diaphragms

Radian's approach to the engineering of the JBL original is different and no doubt the result is different and this maybe critical in certain applications and not in others.

[Thom]

Presuming that no after market device can compare, would not the adult response and the response giving the listener some respect be to point out the differences rather than saying "aftermarket is shit and if you use it you are too and because you have dared to talk about it without calling it shit I'm not going to do anything for you from this date forward" nanananananana
Do you understand what I'm saying. JBL doesn't continue to make parts for and repair certain discontinued items as a philanthropical effort. Certain aftermarket items are advertised as fixing factory problems, and not all of us have tons of experience with each device so if we're better off sticking with JBL thank you for telling us but give us some facts. allow us to do some critical thinking. Don't insult our inteligence by saying. It came with JBL parts so it will only be right with JBL products. If this is true, and I'll take your word, it is only because nobody else is making as good or better, not because it would be impossible for someone to do so. If there are company tie in's or somes brother inlaw, --- I have no idea what someone has done in the way of effort to provide I have no idea what in the way of backroom deals . If there are perks to belonging to whatever this is that's nice but they are only as good as you know they exist. I truly don't understand how someone keeps getting their feelings run over by a catterpillar and sounding like they are going cold turkey off prozac. I don't mean to be disrespectful. While I don't Know much about who contributes what I get the feeling that they contribute tons and maybe shit goes on I have no clue of . enough of that till someone pushes my button again. How is it that there are diaphragms that fit multiple drivers and yet the diaphragms from these drivers do not interchange? When replacing or disturbing the diaphragm in a jbl driver do you sweep it and go for max amplitude or howabout a lead to where it's discussed, if you would be so kind. Some of my stuff lately sounds a little preachy to me and I don't mean it to I don't have any right, not if you want to go by the glass houses bit but I read certain postings and either a dialouge has been going on a long time that I'm unaware of or someones under too muce pressure. It wouldn't be a bad idea for major players here to give short bios. Hardly know who to salute you know.

[Mr. Widget]

"Presuming that no after market device can compare, would not the adult response and the response giving the listener some respect be to point out the differences rather than saying "aftermarket is shit and if you use it you are too and because you have dared to talk about it without calling it shit I'm not going to do anything for you from this date forward" nanananananana"

Sure... I don't think that the "you're a shit" etc. was actually implied initially... however, during the devolution of this and the previous thread, it would seem that we did eventually get there and I personally find that sort of thing rude and unnecessary. That said it is obvious from your statement above that the intended and useful message about the quality of JBL sourced diaphragms did eventually get across. I am not condoning anyone's posts on either side of this conversation, and I am hopeful that we can stop focussing on the negative and move forward.


"JBL doesn't continue to make parts for and repair certain discontinued items as a philanthropical effort."

Of course not, but in the scale of their business I really doubt that diaphragms and recone kits are a profit center... they may be a loss leader to promote their "quality image" or they may have another reason for continuing the production of diaphragms for products that were discontinued in the the '60s or '70s, but regardless of their motivation I think it is a wonderful practice and I would be very disappointed if they stopped it.


"Certain aftermarket items are advertised as fixing factory problems..."

I have never heard that one... but there is a heck of a lot of unadulterated BS in the marketplace.


"...and not all of us have tons of experience with each device so if we're better off sticking with JBL thank you for telling us but give us some facts. allow us to do some critical thinking."

Occasionally when these facts are given they are questioned and I think that is a major contributing factor toward the frustration that leads to the quick sharp and sometimes insulting responses... I know I have felt like posting "Read the previous post again... your question was answered five different ways. Are you an imbecile or do you just like to hear your keyboard click?"!!! Thankfully I usually realize what I am doing before I click on POST.


"If there are company tie in's or somes brother inlaw, --- I have no idea what someone has done in the way of effort to provide I have no idea what in the way of backroom deals ...."

To the best of my knowledge no one is getting any financial gain from this forum... and there is no direct connection with JBL or Harman. There is an abundance of brand loyalty and cheerleading, and for good reason... this site is about products made by the three companies that James Lansing was a significant contributor in. Most of us have a real passion for these products... so much so that we spend an inordinate amount of time clicking and reading.


"I truly don't understand how someone keeps getting their feelings run over by a catterpillar and sounding like they are going cold turkey off prozac."

It is a surprisingly common situation on this forum and others... communication via these discussion boards can be difficult and confusing. A seemingly straightforward post can be misinterpreted or extra meaning can be read into it and people begin flame wars... other times there is the history that develops and a poster may have too little patience with another poster and jump to conclusions far too quickly. As messy as it is, we typically deal and move on.


"How is it that there are diaphragms that fit multiple drivers and yet the diaphragms from these drivers do not interchange?"

I have no idea what you mean.

"When replacing or disturbing the diaphragm in a jbl driver do you sweep it and go for max amplitude or howabout a lead to where it's discussed, if you would be so kind."

Here is one of several threads describing the procedure:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=110400


"I read certain postings and either a dialouge has been going on a long time that I'm unaware of or someones under too muce pressure. It wouldn't be a bad idea for major players here to give short bios. Hardly know who to salute you know."

If you want to know, read through the many years of saved posts... there is some good technical info there and a bit of a soap opera too... all of the players will be brought to life before your eyes.


Widget

[Chas]

Quote: If you want to know, read through the many years of saved posts... there is some good technical info there and a bit of a soap opera too... all of the players will be brought to life before your eyes.


Widget[/quote]

Well said, Widget. Despite the daunting amount of material amassed here from over the years, it's a hell of a good read. From both perspectives - educational and entertaining.

[scott fitlin]

Im forwarding the contents of this entire forum to Hollywood!

I dont know if they should make a soap opera or a sitcom out of the material.

:D

[Gary L]

Im forwarding the contents of this entire forum to Hollywood!

I dont know if they should make a soap opera or a sitcom out of the material.

:D

HOLLYWOOD! Now there is a crew the entire world could do well without!

Gary

[John]

HOLLYWOOD! Now there is a crew the entire world could do well without!

Gary

What You don't watch movies ???:blink:

This thread is de-railing:banghead:

[briang]

Thom....that is where you are mistaken.

JBL hasn't abandoned them. They still make parts for drivers that are over 50 years old.

True, but...unfortunately JBL has abondoned me and my need of replacement parts for: 044Ti, 115H-1, 128H and 104H.:(

The above not withstanding, I appriciate JBL's contiuned support of vintage equipment.

[coherent_guy]

"Why bother buying, keeping or accepting JBL gear if you have no intention of maintaining it with correct parts. "

To put it to use.

"Secondly, why bother comming to the Lansing Heritage site where the entire purpose is in maintaining the sonic purity and history of JBL and Lansing products"

I was unaware that you determine what the "entire purpose" of this site is.

Here here!!

I will say this, I feel it is a very worthy goal to maintain JBL components to their original standard. I have never said that after market parts were superior or even equivalent to original ones. Frankly I don't have that knowledge either way. I was also not aware that one or more forum members do (or did) make available genuine JBL parts at a discount price to forum members. Things are coming into focus now. Yes, I can see why said members could be frustrated upon seeing others use after market parts when the real deal is available for the same or a little more. Sorry, didn't know! I remain ignorant of whom from and how to obtain said parts. Unfortunately the competition, that as it is, is in my face on eBay and the internet hawking their wares, in contrast to the original. Oh if only JBL had a few pages on their pro website listing what remains of their replacement parts, so that they were only a few clicks away. Yes how spoiled and lazy some of us are, let the e-tent sale be damned! The same for eBay! I'm not serious about that, are you?
I state for the record that I will always want a genuine JBL part in my components. That it is far easier to get after market parts does not justify using them, but why must it be that way? My first experience with non-JBL parts was negative, they were inferior, in a mechanical way, the diaphragm fit loosely on the alignment pins and the VC alignment would obviously be poor, to put it mildly. Beyond this I have no knowledge regarding parts sourced elsewhere, or in what aspects they might be inferior in performance. I request that those of you that know better state how they are inferior, such as poor build quality, non-flatness of frequency response or restricted bandwidth or subjectively sounding poor. One after-market parts provider claims "identical or superior performance to the original". Debunking that claim would certainly keep me from trying those parts. A forum member did just that in this thread, although in generalities, thank you! I thought that after market parts might be fine based on my experience with other types of parts, specifically when I learned that the name brand and generic parts were made in the same factory. Might this be the same here? It seems not. The post starting this thread mentioned that replacement diaphragms were deemed perfect, I never saw that post. Considering the strong opposition to that idea demonstrated in this thread, why would anyone stop making the originals available? Not that I ever knew they were available. I would hope you would reconsider no longer providing that service, how does that help to stop the very situation you find so abhorent?

[Gary L]

What You don't watch movies ???:blink:

This thread is de-railing:banghead:

As a matter of fact, I do not support the behaviors of the "SICK and FAMOUS". We prefer to listen to music in our home.
I don't feel the thread is derailing at all and everyone is entitled to thier opinions. I fully respect every one of them but there is two sides and I am firmly on one. I don't fault anyone for the position they take and I am quite happy there are differing opinions. This thread, any thread for that matter, would be useless if we all agreed.

Gary

[hjames]

HOLLYWOOD! Now there is a crew the entire world could do well without!

Gary
Nah - just let em make films (thats what they are good at!) and don't pay any attention to them when they get political.
I mean, you don't take political statements from Athletes or musicians now do you? :D

And if you don't like the films don't buy them.
And if you don't like the music, don't buy it.

I just wish we could can the whole paparazi media circus - just shut off all the media-hype info-tainment channels and "shows" -
I have NO interest in Anna Nicole Smith, Tom Cruise, Paris Hilton or the rest of that clueless useless crowd ...

[briang]

Nah - just let em make films (thats what they are good at!) and don't pay any attention to them when they get political. I mean, you don't take political statements from Athletes or musicians now do you? :D
Nor do I get my politics from the press...sometimes I don't even take them from politicians...;)

On topic (shameless self interested plug): I am in need of replacement parts for: 044Ti, 115H-1, 128H and 104H.

Any and all help in locating replacement (JBL/OEM) diaphrams for the above listed parts is appreciated (and respected).

[kingjames]

How many manufactures use wax seal's on their drivers? Why are wax seals used? I am not very talented when it comes to speaker replacement or crossover design but I will always replace a JBL part with A JBL part.

I remember long ago when I had a set of JBL speakers don't know the model but it had a 15" woofer and a bullet tweeter and what amazed me was the tweeter,I could never figure out how sound came out of that thing.

I had a bad woofer and didn't even know at that time that you could refoam or recone speakers. I decided to put a new woofer from Radio Shack in that big hole and guess what I made a perfect pair of JBL speakers sound like a pair of Radio Shack speakers.

I might not have the knowledge of most people here but I can tell you that the true JBL sound comes only from JBL design and parts. Let's face it ,you get what you pay for.

I'm just wondering about all these replacement parts lasting half as long as JBL parts. I wonder why JBL'S cost so much used or new, I wonder why people are willing to pay the price for JBL'S used or new, I only wonder if it has to do with quality?? :bouncy:

[opimax]

in about 50 minutes you can buy some 044ti w/some small boxes and 115 attached. Just go over pay the price on ebay. He is looking for 500 on audiogon and its "only" 350 currently, guessing to go at 425+ .

There is a set 250ti on audiogon for 1650 plus the recone of a 104. buy and part out??? not very good options to get a 44, been looking for almost a year myself...

Mark

[briang]

in about 50 minutes you can buy some 044ti w/some small boxes and 115 attached. Just go over pay the price on ebay. He is looking for 500 on audiogon and its "only" 350 currently, guessing to go at 425+ .

There is a set 250ti on audiogon for 1650 plus the recone of a 104. buy and part out??? not very good options to get a 44, been looking for almost a year myself...

Mark

Mark,

I see your point, I was hoping for new JBL replacements (especially at those prices).:blink:

[boputnam]

In my 18+ years as an Authorized JBL Service Agency, never have I found aftermarket parts that are as good as the JBL Factory designed/assembled/sourced parts. I'm a professional...and a casuals working musician that knows what to expect from my JBL's...and yours. The imitations have never gotten it right....close just isn't good enough...in sound and particularly reliability.

The usual reason for using aftermarket parts for JBL tranducers is an economic one....and it certainly isn't a crime. I think I've stated that before.

However....when one gets into the debate of the merits of JBL vs. Aftermarket parts on this site that was dedicated to being purist of the Lansing breed, you have to expect a backlash from the purist camp.
Simply stated... the aftermarkets aren't equivalent to factory parts.

I will sell you aftermarket parts if that's what you are willing to pay for...but I will also give you the caveat of diminished performance.

To each his own...but please don't include aftermarket and genuine JBL parts in the same league....because they aren't.

Resuspending low frequency drivers is a whole 'nother discussionEdge, that is a great post. Thanks for chiming-in with reality from the trenches. You and Giskard and few others see more of these cores than anyone, and know the flaws in trying non OEM parts.


I've always been puzzled by aftermarket diaphragms. My picture of them is that they are needed by bands who use Behringer electronics, and such, and throw microphones. For high fidelity where a new diaphragm may be needed every 15 or twenty years the idea (that cheaper is OK...[ed]) is ridiculous.And another. Bada-bing, bada-boom.

[boputnam]

If one were to follow your logic to it's end a TAD could never equal let alone be better than a JBL, and while I don't Know if it does or it doesn't I do know that many forum members believe they are better. This completely misses the point. The thread is about putting replacement, non-JBL diaphragms into JBL cores as a money-saving route and believing there is no sonic difference.

The discussions about TAD here, have been with respect to using the entire driver in-place of the JBL original - the TAD core, TAD diaphragm, etc as built from factory.

Keep your finger by the script - you won't get confused, or saddened... ;)

[4313B]

Im forwarding the contents of this entire forum to Hollywood!

I dont know if they should make a soap opera or a sitcom out of the material.

:DWTF does that have anything to do with the thread?
Have keyboard, will post?

[4313B]

Edge, that is a great post. Thanks for chiming-in with reality from the trenches. You and Giskard and few others see more of these cores than anyone, and know the flaws in trying non OEM parts.

And another. Bada-bing, bada-boom.I like this one too.

Somehow the human element is overlooked. Giskard makes the effort to close the cost gap between the JBL diaphragms and the others, which for good reason he eschews, and discussion about their viability is bound to grate.Yep. It's back to "private forums only" for me where we can mingle posts with phone calls and actually get things done without all the background chatter. The only point to this forum is to share documents and data. The chatter crap and idiotic posts are better served someplace else like AK or AA. I find that if I don't read these public forums the problems cease to exist, the day turns out great, and that's a good thing. :yes:

[mikebake]

Actually the point may be different for different posters. Where I originally jumped in was where Giskard said "the only reason for using a non JBL diaphragm is if the original part is not available period" forgive me if I failed to see anything about economics, or cheaper, or saving money inthat post. I replied that this was false. Whether he agreed with it or not there were other reasons for using a non JBL part. I believe this is impossible to prove untrue. One reason might be that someone likes the sound better. I don't know of any such case but if you think this is impossible how did Dr. Bose make so much money. He didn't make it by selling diaphragms I'm sure you're going to say. No, he made it by outdoing mr. Barnum of a previous century. Things went downhill from there. To clarify a previous statement the "brother inlaw" refrence in an earlier post was refering to one possible way deep discounts might be available. I was not suggesting that someone had staked out a position out of self intrest. I'll asume motives are pure. Another that didn't get understood is at least one manufacturer list the same part number to fit several drivers. These drivers (both Altec and JBL if I'm not mistaken) are not known for having interchangable diaphragms. although the ones I am thinking of are all 1.75 VC. I think the discount idea is way coool (did I say that) but if the only time you ever find out about things like that is when they are discontinued then defacto they never existed. I know I send out some posts that I shouldn't but many times I write a fairly lengthy post and upon re-reading it I realize that if I don't post it the earth will most likely continue to rotate and I delete so excepte except for those of you still holding on to the flat earth theory that is something to consider.
I suggest posting using paragraphs. It's easier to read.

[briang]

I like this one too.
Yep. It's back to "private forums only" for me where we can mingle posts with phone calls and actually get things done without all the background chatter. The only point to this forum is to share documents and data. The chatter crap and idiotic posts are better served someplace else like AK or AA. I find that if I don't read these public forums the problems cease to exist, the day turns out great, and that's a good thing. :yes:

Giskard, I get your point, it is for the very same reasons that I now abstain from my local VW car club forums.

More on topic, any chance you know of a source for 044Ti, 116H-1 or 104H diapharams (selfish again, I know)?

Maybe I should just buck up and buy something newer with better parts support :blink: . Those LSR32 look nice...

[Mr. Widget]

I suggest posting using paragraphs. It's easier to read.Excellent advice.

Thom, aren't you through yet? I think we have pretty well beaten this topic and a couple of ancillary ones well to death.

If you want, start a new thread and we can bash or praise Bose there.


Widget

[boputnam]

...One reason might be that someone likes the sound better. I don't know of any such case...Neither does most everyone here.

I gotta wonder then, why did you post, at-all...? Some altruistic pursuit of benevolence toward non-JBL diaphragms? That, and the double-negatives ("I believe this is impossible to prove untrue...") are tedious to this reader. :yes:

[4313B]

More on topic, any chance you know of a source for 044Ti, 116H-1 or 104H diapharams (selfish again, I know)?I may have one pair of D8R044Ti's on the shelf. I'm finally sold out of all of those drivers and replacement parts.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I like this one too.
Yep. It's back to "private forums only" for me where we can mingle posts with phone calls and actually get things done without all the background chatter. The only point to this forum is to share documents and data. The chatter crap and idiotic posts are better served someplace else like AK or AA. I find that if I don't read these public forums the problems cease to exist, the day turns out great, and that's a good thing. :yes:

Muhhahahah, spoken like a true American, I mean a Yank!:applaud:

Actually, I find I get one freaking hell of a lot more done (for other members) and every day is a great day without neither ( public, private and venting forums) , and that's a goofy thing.:D .

The pm's are however quite useful for discussing specifics and sharing ideas and projects. Probably why I get so many.:)

[Tom Brennan]

"This completely misses the point. The thread is about putting replacement, non-JBL diaphragms into JBL cores as a money-saving route and believing there is no sonic difference. "


I'm not so sure the claim is that there's no difference so much as that Radians and such can sound good and work well.

On the other hand a Radian aluminum could very well sound better than a JBL titanium depending on one's preference.

[mikebake]

Faulkner got a pulitzer, and I'm surprised there are any comas left for the rest of us, after all of the ones he used, in his sentences that ran for pages, but one should write for their audience so I'll see what I can do.

There are have medications for that and records are confidential. You'll be a lot happier.
There are have?? Nuff said.:)
p.s. pulitzer with a capital P, and I don't know if he left enough comas, (as in, I'm in one) but he surely left enough commas...... (not like Kohoutek)

[Zilch]

.

[Thom]

Neither does most everyone here.

I gotta wonder then, why did you post, at-all...? Some altruistic pursuit of benevolence toward non-JBL diaphragms? That, and the double-negatives ("I believe this is impossible to prove untrue...") are tedious to this reader. :yes:

I don't care about off brand diaphragms. Someday I may, but as of now I've no experience with them. I just dislike faulty logic. Tell me something is no good, but don't use an example to prove it that doesn't prove it. As for double negatives if I took the negatives out (possible to prove true) the meaning would be changed. I could have said impossible to prove false, but is that any more correct?

It's interesting that their are persons on this thread who are sticking up for other diaphragms (I have no idea if they are right or wrong) and it's me that seems to be being piled on (unless I'm paranoid ) and all I've done is asked for more than "because I said so". and for the reason that this discussion has dug up so much emotion.

As far as JBL having a philosophy of only using genuine JBL parts. You would be hard pressed to find a manufacturer that doesn't have a simular philosiphy. I imagine they have a philosophy against using other peoples drivers and horns and any thing else they make. Wouldn't you? I'm not knocking this I'm just saying that by itself is hardly proof that theirs are better. There may be proof but that isn't it.

as for my spelling, I thought we figured out I couldn't spell a while back. I'd use word and then paste but I quit being able to paste from word a while back and if there is a spellcheck to this I'm unaware of it.

[Zilch]

This is really quite simple. Those who want genuine JBL diaphragms to continue to be available are obliged to discourage the use of alternatives, as that practice will hasten the eventuality of their no longer being so....

[Zilch]

as for my spelling, I thought we figured out I couldn't spell a while back. I'd use word and then paste but I quit being able to paste from word a while back and if there is a spellcheck to this I'm unaware of it.http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=97014#post97014

[Thom]

Thanks I'll see how it works. I imagine that JBL's motive to continue to service discontinued drivers is the same as any manufacturer with a large installed customer base. If hundreds or perhaps more of pro sound companys all of a sudden had to start replacing JBL drivers because they were no longer serviceable, JBL would probably be way down on their list of prospective venders. The thing to probably watch for is when some companys are trying to get a product out of the field and they don't dare quit servicing it they start making it more and more expensive to keep it running. Hopefully that won't happen.

Next time I see faulty logic being used to prove something, I may very well post again. I'm not saying I never do it but never knowingly.

[Ian Mackenzie]

This is really quite simple. Those who want genuine JBL diaphragms to continue to be available are obliged to discourage the use of alternatives, as that practice will hasten the eventuality of their no longer being so....

It would be fun to run a Poll on whether the Hoards of Lansing thought Lord Zilchvonucurvea could tell, hear or measure the difference if aftermarket diaphragms were secretly swapped on his beloved diy specials by DRG on Xmas Eve. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Zilch]

Heh.

Zilch has asked Santa to Aquaplas ALL of his diaphragms already.... :D

[Thom]

Heh.

Zilch has asked Santa to Aquaplas ALL of his diaphragms.... :D

Just what is this and what are it's properties

[Mr. Widget]

Just what is this and what are it's propertiesTry using Search.


This is really quite simple. Those who want genuine JBL diaphragms to continue to be available are obliged to discourage the use of alternatives, as that practice will hasten the eventuality of their no longer being so....While that is an excellent point, it never entered into my thinking...

I always give advice and make recommendations based on my personal goal of attempting to achieve the highest performance possible for a given driver, design, system or what have you... I do regularly run into a situation where the recipient of the advice would prefer the quickest, easiest or least expensive way to get respectable performance... I almost never think in these terms unless I am specifically asked. I am not trying to be a snob about it... I was just brought up with the notion that it is better to have less, but have the best quality you can afford instead of a lot of stuff that is second rate. Unfortunately here in America it seems we are going further and further away from that... some call it the Walmartization of America.


Widget

[Ian Mackenzie]

Bed time you guys.:snore:

[4313B]

I just dislike faulty logic.Where did anyone use faulty logic?
It's interesting that their are persons on this thread who are sticking up for other diaphragms (I have no idea if they are right or wrong) and it's me that seems to be being piled on (unless I'm paranoid ) and all I've done is asked for more than "because I said so". and for the reason that this discussion has dug up so much emotion.I think you're being "piled" on because you're driving the dialogue.
As far as JBL having a philosophy of only using genuine JBL parts. You would be hard pressed to find a manufacturer that doesn't have a simular philosiphy. I imagine they have a philosophy against using other peoples drivers and horns and any thing else they make. Wouldn't you? I'm not knocking this I'm just saying that by itself is hardly proof that theirs are better. There may be proof but that isn't it.You aren't taking into account system design. JBL has a propensity for developing complete systems. Read the attached Everest II White Paper for an example of total system design. Feel free to replace the diaphragm in the 476Be with whatever aftermarket diaphragm you wish.
as for my spelling, I thought we figured out I couldn't spell a while back. I'd use word and then paste but I quit being able to paste from word a while back and if there is a spellcheck to this I'm unaware of it.There is a post somewhere by Don about installing a Spell Checker. I find it's easier to simply type the whole mess up in Word and then cut and paste.

[4313B]

Heh.

Zilch has asked Santa to Aquaplas ALL of his diaphragms already.... :DWhen? Send them to me and I'll do them for you.

[4313B]

It would be fun to run a Poll on whether the Hoards of Lansing thought Lord Zilchvonucurvea could tell, hear or measure the difference if aftermarket diaphragms were secretly swapped on his beloved diy specialsDuring a recent conversation with JBL it was decided that alot of these guys wouldn't be able to hear the difference.

[4313B]

This is really quite simple. Those who want genuine JBL diaphragms to continue to be available are obliged to discourage the use of alternatives, as that practice will hasten the eventuality of their no longer being so....You've been reading my posts over the years haven't you...

[4313B]

I'm not so sure the claim is that there's no difference so much as that Radians and such can sound good and work well.

On the other hand a Radian aluminum could very well sound better than a JBL titanium depending on one's preference.Possibly. Hence my original statement:
I'm sure there are several forum members who will step forward and provide whatever data someone might feel is necessary.People should feel free to post their graphs of PWT measurements as well as subjective analysis for a variety of solutions.

[4313B]

It will be interesting to see if someone can source a decent aftermarket beryllium replacement diaphragm for use in the 4-inch bodies that can approximate the performance of the 476Be.

While the 476Be hardware (core) is unique, it is possible to take advantage of the 476Be software (diaphragm/cone assembly) by installing said software into other four inch bodies. The results won't be identical to a true 476Be but some may find the results satisfactory for their intended applications. I suspect the 476Be diaphragms will run $3,000 to $4,000 a pair. However, be aware that current practice at JBL Consumer is to simply replace the whole unit as opposed to just the software. For instance, if an Everest II owner blows a 1501AL or 476Be, JBL replaces the entire transducer. In fact, just a few weeks ago a pallet of 476Be's left for Japan as part of that philosophy (Given the build quality of the 476Be I suspect the drivers on that pallet will remain on a shelf unused for years and years). Whole drivers, not diaphragms. In other words, the diaphragms may possibly never be available separately.

[Maron Horonzakz]

The 476be is late in coming & should have been here 15 years ago.. TAD has been enjoying the spoils of be for a long time....now its JBLs time to turn the tables....We will see what trickle down baby Everest styles will be designed for us lowlife Us buyers.;)

[4313B]

The 476be is late in coming & should have been here 15 years ago.. TAD has been enjoying the spoils of be for a long time....now its JBLs time to turn the tables....We will see what trickle down baby Everest styles will be designed for us lowlife Us buyers.;)TAD developed the beryllium compression driver way back in 1975 when JBL was building large format 43xx Studio Monitors. To this day TAD isn't even a blip on JBL's radar. I do know that the JBL beryllium diaphragm is designed to be reasonably safe while the TAD diaphragms are "handle at your own risk". TAD is generally known as "a step above". I would be highly surprised to find people on a TAD forum discussing aftermarket diaphragms for their beloved TAD compression drivers.

[Tom Brennan]

"I would be highly surprised to find people on a TAD forum discussing aftermarket diaphragms for their beloved TAD compression drivers."

Don't be. Just the other day I saw a discussion in which some people said they favored the sound of Radian diaphragms in 4001s.

[4313B]

"I would be highly surprised to find people on a TAD forum discussing aftermarket diaphragms for their beloved TAD compression drivers."

Don't be. Just the other day I saw a discussion in which some people said they favored the sound of Radian diaphragms in 4001s.Wonders never cease. One more reason not to bother with the original designs. :)

I will admit that soon this will be a moot point and that aftermarket parts will be the only alternative.
It's been said a few times already, "Harman has very little interest in maintaining 30 year old product".

[Maron Horonzakz]

Go figure??? Its hard to tel what people hear....I too like the bandwith limitation of aluminum....It will be interesting to hear the Everest II at the CES.....One step forward two steps back:D

[Maron Horonzakz]

Radian last year introduced the 950 5 slit driver with the Radian replacement vc/diaphram....They claim it to be the TAD killer....Yeh right.;)

[speakerdave]

Don't be. Just the other day I saw a discussion in which some people said they favored the sound of Radian diaphragms in 4001s.

If someone buys empty beater 4001's on ebay and realizes too late that he's not REALLY going to spring for new TAD diaphragms, he will "prefer" Radian aluminum replacements.

David

[mikebake]

If someone buys empty beater 4001's on ebay and realizes too late that he's not REALLY going to spring for new TAD diaphragms, he will "prefer" Radian aluminum replacements.

David:applaud:

[4313B]

If someone buys empty beater 4001's on ebay and realizes too late that he's not REALLY going to spring for new TAD diaphragms, he will "prefer" Radian aluminum replacements.

David:applaud:

[Thom]

Ididn't think the statment "there is only one reason to use a non jbl---- could stand because for good or for bad there are other reasons.

I think that anyone who says that the red seals prove that you should only use JBL parts is, well I really couldn't think of a proper descriptor.

I think that whethor or not JBL wants me to use other peoples parts is irrelevant. Allen Bradley doesn't want me to use any body elses parts and about them I say "you can buy better but you can't pay more"

I believe that no matter how many other companies parts you have tried it doesn't mean that it is impossible for someone else to make parts as good and if JBL makes an improvement at a later date then someone could actually have made it better.

At the begining of all of this I saw nothing regarding economy or price although I'm sure that may be the most common reason one would switch.

Having said all this I've never tried an after market diaphragm and probably won't but it won't be because JBL doesn't want me to. They don't consult me before dropping models and I'm sure not on their Christmas list.

So, you ask, where is faulty logic? Look back through this thread and you will see "You sholdn't use after market diaphragms because ----" and the because doesn't prove anything. It might as well be "because my mother doesn't want you to"

I even got jumped on for a double negetive by someone who didn't take the time to realize it changed the logic. And I make so many mistakes you'd think someone wouldn't make one up.

I had no idea that asking for evidence or correctness (no I'm not claiming to do better) would be so controversial.

Actually I've seen TADs that were supposed to be in good shape for less than radian tad replacements. They are expensive.

But, Radian doesn't claim to be an economy replacement. That may be what they are, but they speak of their exclusive surround and such.

[Ian Mackenzie]

"I would be highly surprised to find people on a TAD forum discussing aftermarket diaphragms for their beloved TAD compression drivers."

Don't be. Just the other day I saw a discussion in which some people said they favored the sound of Radian diaphragms in 4001s.

I've also heard the same said of 2001's.

I suppose the error of judgement was not buying a JBL driver in the first place.

[4313B]

But, Radian doesn't claim to be an economy replacement. That may be what they are, but they speak of their exclusive surround and such.They have to put food on the table too. Buy a pair of their diaphragms and help their cause.

I think that anyone who says that the red seals prove that you should only use JBL parts is, well I really couldn't think of a proper descriptor.The red wax seals are desirable to collectors. Without those seals it's harder to prove that some shyster isn't trying to sell you a nice JBL core with an aftermarket diaphragm in it.

[4313B]

I suppose the error of judgement was not buying a JBL driver in the first place.No joke! Rumor is these guys are buying 2435HPL's off eBay for dirt cheap and then getting JBL to repair them to like new condition under warranty. Poor JBL... those Be diaphragms aren't cheap!

[Zilch]

The diaphragms seem to be good in the eBay 2435HPLs.

The pair I sent back to the factory just needed gap cleaning and ferrofluid recharge.

They returned to me almost perfectly matched when Mr. Widget remeasured them.

[Gotta love JBL for doing that.... :thmbsup: ]

[spkrman57]

JBL did them with the correct parts and procedures!!!:applaud:

Ron




The diaphragms seem to be good in the eBay 2435HPLs.

The pair I sent back to the factory just needed gap cleaning and ferrofluid recharge.

They returned to me almost perfectly matched when Mr. Widget remeasured them.

[Gotta love JBL for doing that.... :thmbsup: ]

[boputnam]

I don't care about off brand diaphragms. Someday I may, but as of now I've no experience with them. I just dislike faulty logic. Tell me something is no good, but don't use an example to prove it that doesn't prove it. Ah, now that is more clear, to me!

I think the point was, the replacement diaphragms are not made to the exacting specifications of the OEM - otherwise they would be too expensive and not offer a "cheaper alternative". That said, they will "fit" and will "work" but they give nothing like the reponse characteristic of the OEM part. Whether that is of concern, or is audible, is up to the user. However, if it is not either, than you could save money from the outset and buy cheaper cores.


I even got jumped on for a double negetive by someone who didn't take the time to realize it changed the logic. And I make so many mistakes you'd think someone wouldn't make one up.That would be me, and, the blame is lame. I did, in-fact, read and re-read the post. As in my reply, I said the double-negative is tedious to THIS reader - and, IMO runs the risk of obfuscating your point. I didn't make anything up. Maybe your old style of run-on-paragraphs is part cause of the issue, but never mind.

Anyway, I've missed most of this thread (and most others... :o: ), in the shop re-cabling the system for NYE!! I wouldn't risk a non-OEM diaphragm and find it very odd someone would, when the OEM parts are available. At your peril, people...

btw - I don't give a hoot about your spelling. It's syntax I go nutz over... :rotfl:

[Tom Brennan]

Subjectively I've heard the Radian 475s sounding as good as any 1" compression drivers I've heard; I heard them at Tom Danley's on his Unity horns. He said the Radians tested very well.

On the other hand Radian replacement diaphragms for Altec drivers have now gone up in price (at Parts Express) to where they're as expensive as GPAs so one might as well buy GPA.

Also new 475s are almost as expensive as new 902s from GPA so several weeks ago when I wanted new drivers I bought GPAs.

The thing is this, I'm horn enthusiast not simply an Altec or JBL enthusiast and many horn systems sound very good to me including various EVs, Edgars, Tannoys, Danleys and home-brew systems, Hell, I've even heard Lowthers and Klipsch's I liked. Though I've come to the conclusion that plain old Altecs suit me best.

[mikebake]

Though I've come to the conclusion that plain old Altecs suit me best.
It is something how they continue to deliver. It's kinda funny when you hear musical TRUTH on occasion from some "old relic".

[Thom]

Not that the earth will cease to rotate if I never know, but what are the basic properties of either pure beryllium or whatever mixture they use for diaphragms if it's not pure. I know they have alloyed it with copper for years to make sparkless tools for use in certain environments, and I had a cartridge with a cantilever made of it. I was under the impression that it was a hard stiff crystalline substance, but that hardly seems what you would make diaphragms of.

If all of the aftermarket diaphragms currently being made are made to a price and inferior to JBL's, perhaps if JBL quit producing them, a hole would open up for what JBL had been producing and Im sure that they are not the only ones with the technology to produce this product. If you really like a companys diaphragms, when you need drivers you might check them out. I doubt that this thought has been missed by JBL. There are many ways to lose customers. I'm not knocking them in any way. I'm just not buying into the idea that they support these relics as a favor to me.

Anybody catch any of the discriptions of sound coming from Fischer's C55? They talked about it just as I have experienced the C55. You can say no bottom end but you put that or a pair of them in a room in a house and you get people talking about a bottom end they had never heard before. Every time you read about someones experience with it. I'm not making crazy claims about how low it goes. I just know it is an experience.