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Ken Pachkowsky
08-18-2006, 04:19 PM
This just arrived; it’s the new Bent Audio “Tap Passive Preamp”. Utilizing British designed and built Stevens & Billington transformer technology, it represents the latest in passive preamp design. This is there top of the line model. My curiosity about passive line stages was heightened while experimenting and eliminating the preamp and eq on my system. I ordered this a couple of weeks later.

I will have some time to try it out this weekend before the other Deqx arrives.:D

Ken

edgewound
08-18-2006, 04:23 PM
This just arrived; it’s the new Bent Audio “Tap Passive Preamp”. Utilizing British designed and built Stevens & Billington transformer technology, it represents the latest in passive preamp design. This is there top of the line model. My curiosity about passive line stages was heightened while experimenting and eliminating the preamp and eq on my system. I ordered this a couple of weeks later.

I will have some time to try it out this weekend before the other Deqx arrives.:D

Ken

Somebody help this man....he's out of control. I'm starting to feel like an intervention is in order.:D

Mr. Widget
08-18-2006, 05:17 PM
My curiosity about passive line stages was heightened while experimenting and eliminating the preamp and eq on my system. I ordered this a couple of weeks later. As I recall you have already tried passives and found them not to your taste... remember the Adcom?

As I recall you liked it better in active mode but it never quite sounded like your Apt preamp or the Tad tube job...

A passive should do nothing... maybe this one will do more nothing than the Adcom.:D


Widget

Mr. Widget
08-18-2006, 05:18 PM
Somebody help this man....he's out of control....Well, then there is that. :rotfl:


Widget

grumpy
08-18-2006, 05:31 PM
Hi Ken,

Viewing those pics, I just can't keep quiet about what I might expect as a
British ad slogan for the firm:

"Get Bent, or get bent!" :rotfl:

(intended for potential humor value only)

Will be interesting to hear what you think you hear :)

-grumpy

Ken Pachkowsky
08-18-2006, 09:25 PM
As I recall you have already tried passives and found them not to your taste... remember the Adcom?

As I recall you liked it better in active mode but it never quite sounded like your Apt preamp or the Tad tube job...

A passive should do nothing... maybe this one will do more nothing than the Adcom.:D


Widget

Thats true, I was not very impressed with the Adcom 750's. I did try 3 of them.

They may have had a bypass mode but it was a whole different technology from these. That being said, maybe I won't like this either.

Its hooked up as I write this. I will post my impressions tomorrow.

Ken

Ken Pachkowsky
08-18-2006, 09:39 PM
Hi Ken,

Viewing those pics, I just can't keep quiet about what I might expect as a
British ad slogan for the firm:

"Get Bent, or get bent!" :rotfl:

-grumpy

I agree...

It is nicely built with a unique look. The acrylic base is quite heavy. The switches and knobs have a solid, smooth and high quality feel.

Ken

grumpy
08-18-2006, 09:48 PM
Looks nice, includes balanced ins/outs... tapped autotransformer?
should be quiet, at least. :)

-grumpy

Mr. Widget
08-18-2006, 10:03 PM
I did try 3 of them.That's certainly dedication...

I would assume that if your Bent unit is operating properly it should be sonically the same as running your CD player direct... but then that should have been true of the Adcom as well.

Yes, please do tell how it "sounds". ;)


Widget

Ken Pachkowsky
08-18-2006, 10:49 PM
Here she be installed

Ken

Ian Mackenzie
08-19-2006, 12:14 AM
Thats true, I was not very impressed with the Adcom 750's. I did try 3 of them.



Ken

Did you have them plugged in? (sorry could not resist..joke:D ).

Ken, I am confused and miffed that you have keeping such a financially low profile. Alas I have also moved on!

I would suggest both the Adcom and the other preamp were both just different since you appear now to prefer no preamp.

Incidentally a passive preamp is not NO PREAMP.

Ken Pachkowsky
08-19-2006, 10:43 AM
Did you have them plugged in? (sorry could not resist..joke:D ).



I thing I had them plugged in :blink: :D . Seriously, it was suggested by one member that there may have been something wrong with the first 750. After trying 3 of them I came to the conclusion they did not marry well with my system.

Ken

moldyoldy
08-19-2006, 11:38 AM
While I understand the purpose and intent of such devices, I can't get over them being called preamps-which is nothing more than a flat-out lie. The term 'passive preamp' is as big an oxymoron as "Microsoft Works". Can't help but feel that anyone who'd lie about what it is they're selling would....well....lie about what it is they're selling.

Titanium Dome
08-19-2006, 12:45 PM
FWIW, it's a cool looking thing, and it gets style points for that. The Web site is interesting, too.

While others are tugging at your trousers, I applaud your intrepid pursuit of excellence and can't wait to hear your impressions.

My mantra in life is "I can do better than that." No matter what I've done, where I've gone, or how I've experienced something, I always believe I can improve it. At the same time, I take Clint Eastwood's line, "A man's got to know his limitations" to heart as well. That's why I buy most of my audio gear rather than try to make it, though I may try to tweak the f out of it after I get it. Finally, I subscribe to the "Variety is the spice of life" school of thought, so I don't ever expect to have the "final" or "perfect" of anything; thus I'll keep trying and sampling as long as I can.

I think in those respects, you and I share a common outlook, and, as I wrote, "I applaud your intrepid pursuit of excellence" wherever it may take you.

Ian Mackenzie
08-19-2006, 03:50 PM
Adcom must havd had a QA problem then.

tom1356
08-19-2006, 04:07 PM
While I understand the purpose and intent of such devices, I can't get over them being called preamps-which is nothing more than a flat-out lie. The term 'passive preamp' is as big an oxymoron as "Microsoft Works". Can't help but feel that anyone who'd lie about what it is they're selling would....well....lie about what it is they're selling.

The prefix pre- means before. As in: before the amplifier.
Although I use the term Passive control center I think passive preamp is still perfectly fitting.
The whole point is moot since the preamp in question provides +6db gain so it is a preamp by any definition.
And a mighty fine one at that.
I would also like to agree that John at Bent Audio is one of the best guys in retail.

Ian Mackenzie
08-19-2006, 04:57 PM
It would be fun to play with using an absolutely very Hi end minimalist system like an Altmann Attraction DAC, http://www.mother-of-tone.com/attraction.htm and a Lamm power amp and some MMG's. But in a complex mutiway system teh purists might be waving their heads. For those interested that Altmann Attractio Dacis probably the finest DAC on the face of the earth at the moment and you can tailor it to particular needs. Its on my list....:)

pentictonklaus
08-19-2006, 05:12 PM
Keep on going Ken !

The best pre amp is the one that is seen not heard. Yours looks great.
Having the luxury of a high tech patchbay with remote control is every-body's dream. Do not listen to timid voices.
One more thing. Did it ever strike you odd, that the people who are asking you to grow up have not yet learned how to fly ?

Klaus

moldyoldy
08-19-2006, 06:18 PM
The prefix pre- means before. As in: before the amplifier.
Although I use the term Passive control center I think passive preamp is still perfectly fitting.
The whole point is moot since the preamp in question provides +6db gain so it is a preamp by any definition.
And a mighty fine one at that.
I would also like to agree that John at Bent Audio is one of the best guys in retail.

By your definition, not only should every turntable, tapedeck, tuner, disk player and interconnect be called preamplifiers, but every step-up xfmr (which increases EITHER voltage OR current at a LOSS of the other, LESS its' inherent INSERTION LOSS) should be called an amplifier. Devices are given names appropriate to their function for a good reason, and "passive preamplifier" just doesn't qualify.

Were it possible to acheive true power gain with a passive device, our electric bills would be a tiny fraction of what they really are.

As I said in my first post, I understand the function and application for these devices, and I'm sure Ken and many other owners do as well. My only complaint is that they are being marketed as something they're not. I know guys that have bought them expecting them to actually serve as preamps. Yes, they were gullible and perhaps even stupid consumers, but consumers should be protected from false advertising and misleading sales techniques.

Just call them what they are, impedance-matching, multifunction selectors. See how many you sell that way.

tom1356
08-19-2006, 07:14 PM
snip* My only complaint is that they are being marketed as something they're not. I know guys that have bought them expecting them to actually serve as preamps. Yes, they were gullible and perhaps even stupid consumers, but consumers should be protected from false advertising and misleading sales techniques.

Just call them what they are, impedance-matching, multifunction selectors. See how many you sell that way.

We see things very differently. I am thankful for that.

Mr. Widget
08-19-2006, 08:01 PM
Geez guys!

Ken, how does the damned thing sound? Obviously if you don't tell us soon there may be blood shed. :blink:


Widget

Ken Pachkowsky
08-19-2006, 08:02 PM
Widget pointed out something to me a year or so ago that was simple, logical and yet profound. Please correct me if I am wrong Widget.

Anytime you add an active piece of electronics to the audio chain you are in effect adding another pre-amplifier.

Another realization. Many here know a great deal more than I do.

Ken

Ken Pachkowsky
08-19-2006, 08:11 PM
Geez guys!

Ken, how does the damned thing sound? Obviously if you don't tell us soon there may be blood shed. :blink:
Widget

Its sounds very good. Someone earlier on mentioned it should be quiet. My lord he was right about that.

At this point I would say I prefer the Deqx, but don't forget the Deqx has a built in Dac and I traded my Benchmark so this listening test was pure analog.

The quest continues.....

Stay tuned for more insanity.:)

Ken

Ian Mackenzie
08-19-2006, 09:11 PM
What cables are you using? They can make a real difference!

Ken Pachkowsky
08-19-2006, 09:32 PM
What cables are you using? They can make a real difference!

All balanced Ian

My own, made with Canare L-4E6S and Neutrik Gold XLR's.

Ken

moldyoldy
08-19-2006, 10:05 PM
Since I've already mentioned my Top Two Oxymorons (Microsoft Works, passive preamp) there's been some re-arranging occurring in the lower ranks. Recently moved into the Number Three slot is;


(drum roll.......)


"best guy in retail"!:homer:



Sorry to have tracked the mud in, Ken, I'll sweep up on my way out, and check my shoes next time. Enjoy your....er.....thing.

Ken Pachkowsky
08-19-2006, 10:12 PM
Sorry to have tracked the mud in, Ken, I'll sweep up on my way out, and check my shoes next time. Enjoy your....er.....thing.

Your entitled to an opinion.....no worries;) .

Ken

Ian Mackenzie
08-19-2006, 10:29 PM
Ken,

What CD player/Dac are you using at the moment?

just curious.

Ken Pachkowsky
08-19-2006, 10:58 PM
Ken,

What CD player/Dac are you using at the moment?

just curious.

I am using my Sony CDP D11 which of course has a digital to analog converter.......:blink:

Ken

boputnam
08-20-2006, 11:51 AM
I am using my Sony CDP D11 which of course has a digital to analog converter.......:blink: The CDP D11 has digital outs (even optical), too, if you need that option.

Ken Pachkowsky
08-20-2006, 09:53 PM
The CDP D11 has digital outs (even optical), too, if you need that option.

Yes sir, it does.

By the way BO, your cables are on the way. You will have them this week.

Ken

Mr. Widget
08-20-2006, 11:37 PM
The quest continues.....

Stay tuned for more insanity.:)

KenSo?

You like the DEQX a little better than the Bent passive... you liked the DEQX a little better than the Tad tube job... you liked the Tad tube job a little better than the APT preamp... you liked the APT preamp more than the Adcom... what exactly are you looking for? What seems to be missing?


Widget

Ian Mackenzie
08-21-2006, 12:57 AM
I doubt if its black and white thing.

Sometimes certain combinations work well together and others don't. There is also the prior learnt sound that may take a a while to forget before making an informed judgement.

Personally i think the removal of the HR1 crossover and then properly set up of the DEQX will be the defining moment. Assuming the passive pre does nothing to the signal it may let more information through but its whats down stream that he is really hearing.

Ken Pachkowsky
08-21-2006, 08:29 AM
I doubt if its black and white thing.

Sometimes certain combinations work well together and others don't. There is also the prior learnt sound that may take a a while to forget before making an informed judgement.

Personally i think the removal of the HR1 crossover and then properly set up of the DEQX will be the defining moment. Assuming the passive pre does nothing to the signal it may let more information through but its whats down stream that he is really hearing.

Spot on Ian. What is interesting is that they could all sound so different considering the aim of most companies is to built transparency into their electronics. The truth be known I would love to "try" many high end components. I have been very tempted to jump on the Pass Labs bandwagon but suspect it may be a lateral move. Of course, I could be wrong about that. The fact is you don't know till you try. If opportunity's come along to try some well regarded equipment for no risk "I'm In".

We shall see about the Deqx replacing the HRX. So far nothing comes even remotely close ie: Klark Teknik, Ashley XR's etc.

"There is also the prior learnt sound that may take a a while to forget before making an informed judgement." I completely agree on this point.

Widget asks the question " What are you looking for? What exactly is missing? To some degree that could be asked of all of us. Nothing is really missing, but the system I have today sounds more refined than the system I had a year ago. Widget, of all people you should understand this journey:D .

Ken

Mr. Widget
08-21-2006, 09:21 AM
Widget, of all people you should understand this journey:D .Good point... I guess what inspired the question was that from the outside it looks a bit haphazard... though I expect my path would appear similarly meandering to an outside observer.


Widget

boputnam
08-21-2006, 10:13 AM
We shall see about the Deqx replacing the HRX. So far nothing comes even remotely close ie: Klark Teknik...You trialed a KT crossover? I wasn't remembering that you had. Which one?

Ken Pachkowsky
08-21-2006, 10:42 AM
You trialed a KT crossover? I wasn't remembering that you had. Which one?

I tried the DN800 series with custom crossover cards. I would have tried their new digital technology but could not find one at a price where I could flip it if I did not like it.

Ken

boputnam
08-21-2006, 11:12 AM
I would have tried their new digital technology but could not find one at a price where I could flip it if I did not like it.Whoa... We actually FOUND something you haven't tried!! :rotfl:

Just kiddin', pard'... :uhmmmm:

Ian Mackenzie
08-21-2006, 09:20 PM
Spot on Ian. What is interesting is that they could all sound so different considering the aim of most companies is to built transparency into their electronics. The truth be known I would love to "try" many high end components. I have been very tempted to jump on the Pass Labs bandwagon but suspect it may be a lateral move. Of course, I could be wrong about that. The fact is you don't know till you try. If opportunity's come along to try some well regarded equipment for no risk "I'm In".

We shall see about the Deqx replacing the HRX. So far nothing comes even remotely close ie: Klark Teknik, Ashley XR's etc.

"There is also the prior learnt sound that may take a a while to forget before making an informed judgement." I completely agree on this point.

Widget asks the question " What are you looking for? What exactly is missing? To some degree that could be asked of all of us. Nothing is really missing, but the system I have today sounds more refined than the system I had a year ago. Widget, of all people you should understand this journey:D .

Ken

Exactly..have fun while your doing it!:)

Ian Mackenzie
08-25-2006, 04:01 PM
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0705/behringerultracurve2496.htm

Ken,

You might find this an interesting read.

Ken Pachkowsky
08-25-2006, 04:33 PM
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0705/behringerultracurve2496.htm

Ken,

You might find this an interesting read.

Thanks Ian

Its a good straight forward explanation of tweaking a system with an rta and eq.

Ken

pentictonklaus
08-25-2006, 04:46 PM
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0705/behringerultracurve2496.htm

Ken,

You might find this an interesting read.

The above mentioned unit is in my rack. I am very happy with it. I does everything I need and is totally quiet. Thinking about buying a second one
for multichannel. By the way it does make the 2344 work.
Klaus

Tom Loizeaux
08-25-2006, 06:46 PM
Don't you see that this is one of the beauties of this Forum. We can sit back and listen to other members working to raise the bar. Many times the resuts are inconclusive or unconvincing, but other times we all learn how to improve our systems...if we want.
My thanks to Ken, and others, who persue this challange. I have learned much and have used some of what I've learned here to upgrade my listening experience.

Tom

Ian Mackenzie
08-25-2006, 06:54 PM
The above mentioned unit is in my rack. I am very happy with it. I does everything I need and is totally quiet. Thinking about buying a second one
for multichannel. By the way it does make the 2344 work.
Klaus


Klaus, Yes I tort it was a good article and pending how my revamped system evolves I may add it to the bag of trix.I imagine it is a great tool for system fine tuning..allowing one to actively eq the speakers on the fly and then design passive Eq into the final design of the crossovers latter for a purist approach.

pentictonklaus
08-25-2006, 10:14 PM
Klaus, Yes I tort it was a good article and pending how my revamped system evolves I may add it to the bag of trix.I imagine it is a great tool for system fine tuning..allowing one to actively eq the speakers on the fly and then design passive Eq into the final design of the crossovers latter for a purist approach.

I do fully agree. It will be a pleasure to fire up a Weller again. The bag of tricks does hoever sound nice for now.

Klaus

Ian Mackenzie
08-26-2006, 06:17 AM
I do fully agree. It will be a pleasure to fire up a Weller again. The bag of tricks does hoever sound nice for now.

Klaus
Klaus,

Pehaps it is best we not ellude in Ken's DEQZ thread, I hate Hijacking..pm me for details.