Looking for ideas for a hi-freq horn design

[HipoFutura]

I now have the Curcio tube mono-blocks running and love them! They replaced a Phase Linear 400 and drive L100s. As a result of this swap I've lost some of the extreme hi-end. In all honesty I think the mono-blocks are producing a more realistic sound. The PL400 could really blast the hi-freqs to the point of exageration.

I'd like to build a set of hi-freq horns to stack on my L100s. I need a crossover design as well. In this way I can crank the high-end if I get the urge. Would like to build pretty horn enclosure with some character. I can tri-amp and use the PL400 for the horns. I currently have a Paradigm X-30 crossover for the subs.

I'm looking for driver suggestions, horn/enclosure designs, and a crossover schematic. Any help is much appreciated. I'll spend some time searching the archives.

[Steve Gonzales]

I'd like you to reconsider your direction on this one. If I wanted to get into horns, I'd go with a whole new setup. I've owned an X30 and I don't believe that you can cross over much higher than 120hz. The L100's 123a's play all the way up to 800hz or higher, so you will have a frequency response hole in a triamped system. Secondly, I would use the tube amps to power the horns, not the PL 400. Third, most horn/compression driver and/or lens combination are not suitable for pure HF duty, although it can be done. Zilch is probably the leader in the search for something that will work in that regards. Most horn/comp. driver combos are better suited for midrange duty, up to about 9-10khz depending on which model and what diaphragm material is used. IMO, it would be better to keep the UHF duties handled by a ring radiator ( 075-076-077-2404). So now, we get so far away from your original intent that IMO, you should keep the L100's stock and direct your energy into a purpose built 3 way DIY project. I don't want to discourage you, especially if you're dead set on your plan. A triamped system has some big rewards if you are careful with your choices. The Smithhorn is a great midrange horn and the large CD horns are good too. I'd give the LF duties to a 2235H/136H/ 2231a/136a/LE14H1/H/A. The H models are the best bet. There are alot more choices in the JBL inventory to choose from, those are my favorites. Hope this helps, regards, Steve G.

[Zilch]

Buy a pair of the $10 JBL thread-on 90° x 50° PT waveguides and put 2407Hs on them, which occasionally show up on eBay of late.

Alternatively, use the similar BMS 4540ND driver:

http://www.bmspro.info/index.php?show=item&usbid=10278&id=54358

Just hook up in lieu of L100's tweeter using the stock crossover. You'll need to dial the HF level WAY down or add a fixed L-Pad in series to get the adjustment into a normal range.

Don't worry about packaging at this point; you may decide to do something else once you hear them.

L100 doesn't have good VHF extension; it'll be a new experience....

[HipoFutura]

My initial post was not well thought out and covered too many indecisions!

I just bought a pair of 2402H drivers that I will build a set of cabinets for and will place them on top of my L100s. I am now focused on finding an appropriate crossover so that I can tri-amp my subs, L100s, and the 2402Hs.

All of my power amps and preamps are old and use RCA connectors. Currently I use the X-30 to bi-amp the subs and L100s. What I want to do is use one PL400 to drive the subs, the mono-blocks for the L100s, and a second PL400 to drive the 2402Hs. This configuration provides extreme power and reach for both low and hi freqs, and allows the mono-blocks to drive the mids. The PL400 can provide better hi freq extension than the tube amps. This is why the active x-over is required.

Here's the real dilema: all my power amps and preamp use RCA connectors. All the crossovers I've seen (Ashly, etc.) have balanced inputs and use 1/4" phone plugs. Is there some sort of adapter I can buy or build that will convert the RCA line-level signal to the phone plug balanced input? I don't understand the difference between the two. Please explain. Or, is there a crossover with RCA connectors that I can tri-amp with?

[Zilch]

Go to Guitar Center and buy RCA-to-Balanced-TRS adapters or cables of the appropriate length (cables are the better choice, in my view).

You need to read up on the difference between balanced and unbalanced interconnections if you want to understand them, but that will be of little consequence unless they cause problems using your particular gear, ground-loop hum being primary.

There's ways to deal with that, though, in which case you WILL need to read up. :p

Active crossover? M553, and be done with it, if 5 kHz is high enough for your 2402Hs. I'd be driving them with a $30 chip amp, not PL400....

[HipoFutura]

Zilch, Thank you! Knowing I can adapt these different connectors with cables or adapters solves it all.

The JBL M553 looks interesting, but... A 9K hi-freq xover is about 1K below the point (10K) where the 2402H begins to severely drop off. This could leave a sonic hole. Any thoughts on this? I would love to go with a JBL product.

There are several cheap/inexpensive (not sure which) crossovers on ebay. The DBX 234XL looks to have the features I need. Can't find any reviews so I'm not sure how well it works. I can pick one up for under $200. This sounds real cheap to me! My Paradigm X-30 cost more than that. Is the DBX product line worth considering? The Behringer reviews looked dismal. I don't want to buy junk and mess up an otherwise nice system.

[Zilch]

I don't get where 9 kHz is coming from.

M553 Mid/High crossover point can be set anywhere between 450 Hz and 5 kHz.

I fear you're wanting to run the L100 tweeter and the 2402Hs simultaneously. If so, you'll want the 2402Hs coming in above 10 kHz to add "sizzle" or "air," is all. A simple capacitor filter of the appropriate value will do that.

If not, and you intend to disable or dial off the L100 tweeter, you want it to come in lower, of course. You'll have to choose the frequency that sounds best empirically, because the filter slopes will be different.

M553 isn't the best analog crossover (others can advise you better about that,) but for little money ($150 - $200 on eBay), it may do the job for sub, L100, and 2402H.

[Robh3606]

2402's won't get you much higher than the original tweeter. The L100's roll off above 15K so does the 2402. An M553 will do 9k only configured as a 4 way. If you want to improve the top end on L100's use an 035Ti with the 4312A crossover. That will get you out to over 20K no problem and give you a very nice sounding upgrade to boot.

http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/pro-speakers/1973-4311/page03.jpg


http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/specs/pro-comp/2402h/page2.jpg


http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/4312A%20ts.pdf

Rob:)

[HipoFutura]

Yes, my intent is to overlap the 2402H with the L100s. This is experimentation as much as anything else. I want to tri-amp so that I can drive the 2402H with the PL400 (I have a spare). This amp has brillant hi-freqs. I think the mono-blocks are somewhat less. With the tri-amp configuration I can compare the different poweramps. I need the mid cutoff to be about 10K in order to take advantage of the 2402Hs. The sweet spot between my subs and the L100s is at 80 hz.

I think I'll pick up the ebay DBX 234LX and see how it sounds.