2435-HPL on a smith horn

[kartsmart]

Has any of the members here tried the 2435-HPL drivers on a scaled down DIY smith horn like john W's 1" version ? :blink:

[Robh3606]

Is size an issue?? You should be able to get a 1.5-2" adaptor. I think norealtalent has them in the full size configuration. If I remember the full size loads to about 1k or a little higher. You can't go 1.5-1 without cancellation problems up top.

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=6796&highlight=2435

Rob:)

[kartsmart]

Thanks rob very helpful , I seen that you were having a bad day with yours, ( droped it ) , so what you got going with your pair ( more 4430 stuff) thanks bill

[kartsmart]

Any one have a 2397 horn and throat adpt. 4 sale ? I only need one for a center channel.
Don't care how ugly just as long it works well ,may use it for a pattern to make some nice wood ones ? :bouncy:

[kartsmart]

I will be using a 2435HPL driver on a 2397 horn with a 2405 UHf for my center channel. now I need to come up with a midbass or bass driver for the lower end. do I sub woofer or not to sub woofer? space could be limited for it will need to loacated above the TV. any ideas?

[kartsmart]

would the le14a be a good choice / will the lower mids blend well with the 2397 horn ?

[speakerdave]

What low- and mid- frequency drivers will you be using in your mains and surrounds?

David

[Steve Gonzales]

I use a 076/2441-2397/LE14 combo with very pleasing results. I cross at 800hz and 5khz now, but will assume that when I upgrade my electronic crossover to allow for a higher 7-9khz mid to UHF xover point, it will be even better.

[kartsmart]

on my mains I am using 2 tad 1602 for bass, 2123 10" for midbass, Le85 on bruce edgar's saild bowl horns and 2404 uhf. Does just one LE14A seem to keep up with the 2397 ?:blink:

[Steve Gonzales]

In my case they do:p Kartsmart, what are you using for a crossover?

[speakerdave]

For the center channell you should use the same UHF, HF and mid drivers you are using for the mains. Depending on the crossover point, whether you go into the lows in the center is optional, and choice of drivers may be less critical. In the upper frequencies it matters more. If you use different drivers from your mains in the center the image will move about with differences in frequency response. It won't be much fun.

I'm not getting what Steve is saying about an LE14A keeping up with a 2397 and driver. Don't those speakers have a nice 5" cone midrange? Naturally you can Lpad the more efficient drivers down, but an LE14A probably should not be asked to meet up with a 2397/2435 at a crossover point.

David

[Steve Gonzales]

For the center channell you should use the same UHF, HF and mid drivers you are using for the mains. Depending on the crossover point, whether you go into the lows in the center is optional, and choice of drivers may be less critical. In the upper frequencies it matters more. If you use different drivers from your mains in the center the image will move about with differences in frequency response. It won't be much fun.

I'm not getting what Steve is saying about an LE14A keeping up with a 2397 and driver. Don't those speakers have a nice 5" cone midrange? Naturally you can Lpad the more efficient drivers down, but an LE14A probably should not be asked to meet up with a 2397/2435 at a crossover point.

David They used to have a nice 5" cone midrange until I replaced them with 2312/2420's and McCauley 451 800hz elliptical's/LE85's. I've also owned and used the 2435hpl/2397 combo with 435Be. backcaps on them crossed at 800hz. I use an electronic crossover now so the L-pad thing doesn't apply to my example. The LE14 A or H can easily keep up with the 2435/2397/435Be backcap combo when crossed over at 800hz. The 2435hpl is probably better off being crossed over at 1-1.2k and that might prove to be a little high to ask of most large JBL LF transducers. My current setup also crosses over at 800hz and that works very well, especially now that I use 2441's on the 2397's. As far as building a timbre matched center, yes, you should use the same model drivers that are in your mains if at all possible. If you have a DD/DTS processor that is in the same league as your R/L mains (quality), it should have the proper bass management control to direct the LF information to the Mains. That will solve the subwoofer question(if you are satisfied with the L/R Main's LF output) and also free you from having to build a colossal center channel that includes a very large woofer (if that is a concern). The 2123 can be used down to about 70hz, as far as I know ( I've got a friend in Europe that does this but haven't actually heard it myself). I know it will do 1.3khz in the 4344MKII. The LE85/EdgarHorn in your mains is not going to sound the same as the 2435/2397, so there is a compromise as far as timbre is concerned, it still could have a positive result nevertheless. I look at it this way: get the pieces together and mock up a testbed center channel. Try a 2123/2435/2397/2404 combo. Cross at 1khz/9khz and use the processor's bass management set @ 80hz high pass for the center channel. Just an idea.
Good Luck with your project, Steve G.

[kartsmart]

I have not yet started building the 2397's . so horn selection is still a option,
Is the 2397's a big improvement over round horns that I now have in the mains ? If so I could change all 3 {mains and center) over to the 2397's or make up one more saild bowl horn for the center,
Do you think there will be a problem with the 2435HPL and the LE85 that has aftermarket diaphragms in them matching sound quality if they were on the same horn design?
:blink:

[kartsmart]

As for crossover I am using a DBX driverack studio

[Steve Gonzales]

I have not yet started building the 2397's . so horn selection is still a option,
Is the 2397's a big improvement over round horns that I now have in the mains ? If so I could change all 3 {mains and center) over to the 2397's or make up one more saild bowl horn for the center,
Do you think there will be a problem with the 2435HPL and the LE85 that has aftermarket diaphragms in them matching sound quality if they were on the same horn design?
:blink: Whether or not the sonic difference between a 2397/LE85 and a 2435/2397 is a problem, is really up to your ears to decide. I will tell you that there is a big difference in the way they will sound compared to each other. This will be especially true if your aftermarket diaphragms are Titanium. If they are Radian Aluminum, to a lesser degree, but still different. But wouldn't you expect this anyway? I would also like to know what make and model surround processor you are using? Does the DBX allow for more than two channels of operation? If not, how will you crossover the center? A 1" driver on a 2397 is okay, but they really break into their stride with the large format driver.

[kartsmart]

I've also owned and used the 2435hpl/2397 combo with 435Be. backcaps on them crossed at 800hz. ]

So how was the sound quality of the 2435-2397 combo, did you like it other than not going low enough

The LE85/EdgarHorn in your mains is not going to sound the same as the 2435/2397, so there is a compromise as far as timbre is concerned,
Good Luck with your project, Steve G.

I was woundering if a LE85/edgarHorn and 2435HPL/EdgarHorn would have a sonic differance, and yes the LE85's diaphragms are Titanium.

Or would a LE85/2397 (2397 scaled down to fit the 1" driver) and 2435/2397 (scaled down to fit the 1.5" ) sound better

the AVR I'm using is a harman/kardon avr 7000

[yggdrasil]

I was woundering if a LE85/edgarHorn and 2435HPL/EdgarHorn would have a sonic differance, and yes the LE85's diaphragms are Titanium.

Or would a LE85/2397 (2397 scaled down to fit the 1" driver) and 2435/2397 (scaled down to fit the 1.5" ) sound better

the AVR I'm using is a harman/kardon avr 7000
The LE85 and 2435 will have sonic differences.

The LE85 on a 2397 is not the best use of either horn / driver:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=100793&highlight=le85+2397#post100793
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=1083&highlight=le85+2397#post1083

Edgarhorn and 2397 will also have sonic differences.

[kartsmart]

It is sounding like I'm doomed from the start,
I was reading in a post that one should not mix (horns and domes or cone drivers) between the mains and center channel and should keep things near the same for good image. I can see that.
with all 3 front channels using the same horn lens,same mid drivers and the same uhf driver,same crossover points/ but replacing the le85 for a 2435hpl on the center channel / I would have never though it would upset this whole project, Do I need to sell it off for a le85?:banghead:

[Steve Gonzales]

You can do anything you'd like to, we're just answering your questions to the best of our knowledge and from actual experience. You can try the 2397/2435 and find out if you like it or not, for yourself. A great thing about most JBL drivers and horns is that you can always get most or all of your investment back. You will gain from your experience and that is priceless. I've done alot of unorthodox things and am glad I did, some worked and some failed, but I learned from every try, and haven't lost a cent in the process either.

[kartsmart]

Just finished my first 2327, made it out of maple, I think it came out very good. not near as hard as I would have though it was going to be. Thanks widget for the info.
I went ahead and put the 3" lips on the bottom side and 5" on the top side, so I could install the 2405s as a baffle mount on the upper lip. Just waiting for the 1.5 to 2" throat adapters , where would be the best place to get these ?
this question should get a number of opinions, so lets see where it goes? what would be the best driver to cover say from 50 - 70 HZ and crossing over to the 2397s , maybe a 10 or 12" driver ?
:blink:

[kartsmart]

sorry that was a 2397 not the 2327 as in the last post

[yggdrasil]

Instead of the adaptors you could try to make a mounting plate of 1/2" plywood and attach it directly to the horn.

[kartsmart]

Johnny could you give more detail on what you were saying ? are you saying just mount the driver to the back of the horn, with no 2328 adapter ? have you tried this how does it work ?

[yggdrasil]

It is the solution I am using on the smaller Smith's.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51590&postcount=25

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=51591&postcount=26

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52907&postcount=33

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=52908&postcount=34

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75606&postcount=83

[kartsmart]

Johnny I built the full size 2397s / I have seen in another post that a adapter going from 1-1/2 to 2" is not a bad thing because the 2441 drivers has a long throat due to the magnet circuit where the neo. magnets on the 2335hpl is very short so the horn throat remains near the some lenght plus I do have the 2328 adapters. johnny have you done any work with the 2435hpl's. on the 2397s
what I like to try to do is , make up 5 satellites for a 5.1 system with subwoofer. so I would like to get it down to 50hz.
I not sure how low the 2435s will go on the smith horns ? what x-over point seems to work best
would a 10" driver get me down to 50 hz ok or will I need to go for a 12" ?
how close does the 2435HPL come to the 2441 on the smith horns ?

[yggdrasil]

I have a pair of 2435's on the shelf. Will probably make some horns to them this winter. Want to try at least both Smith's and Tractrix.

Widget has done a lot of testing on the 2441/2397 and says they are best above 1400Hz(if I remember right). It is buried somewhere around here, but a search should reveal it. My guess is that the 2441 will work better at low frequencies than the 2435.

Some 10" drivers will give you 50Hz others won't. My guess would be to look for a 12", e.g. 2020 or 2206.

[kartsmart]

The adapters came in and pulled one of the 650 hz edgar horns with a le85 off one of my mains and replaced it with the smith horn and a 2435hpl , wow I was suprised on how much the highs were extended. Did not get much play time with them, but was pleased so far ! will give up date as time goes. :applaud: