JBL VORR system

[joe]

"voice of rock & roll"

If you had to construct a system for stereo using a pair of 2,3,or4 way speakers , jbl designed components , what would those components be ?

I'll make it more simple by stating that the system would be used mainly for
thried and true rock & roll standbys like ...

A Les Paul into a marshall stack
A "big" drum kit (neal peart)
A fender P bass thru an ampeg SVT
A male vocalist with a raspy voice :applaud:

Here's what I'm thinkin' le14, le10, le5 ,066 enclosure made to suit , ported to suit ,crossed over etc . Then again Gordon's BIG L100's sounded enticing , the gentle reader will recall that system as one using L100 components in a big box (2.6? cubes 8.75? length 4" port mirrored mid/tweets) .

I'd just like to know what your starting line up would be for a clean sheet design ,driver wise.

It seems like If a person narrowed it down this far that it may be more workable . Have no fear in responding I am not dead set on any specific configuration , THAT'S WHY I ASKED :D

[Zilch]

Currently:

LE14H-3 in 2 cuft. tuned to 30 Hz,
2426H on $9.90 PT-F95 waveguide,
Zilch's biased AM34 crossover.

HERE, I'll turn 'em up for ya ... :p

[NASTY!! :thmbsup:]

[joe]

I'm listening :D

I'm gonna search on that stuff !

[joe]

I like the concept ! It's simple , no bs , and I would imagine a fair amount of output !

I've only owned one set of speakers similar to those ,they were (are) magnavox's ,DON'T TELL ANYBODY ! 8" woof 90ox40o horn .

[Zilch]

I've only owned one set of speakers similar to those ,they were (are) magnavox's ,DON'T TELL ANYBODY ! 8" woof 90ox40o horn .You kinda know what these are about, then.

I HAVE tried a few different combinations:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=92383#post92383

[Heh, heh....]

[joe]

well they were similar only in broad outline ! I'm sure they don't sound the same ... The magnavoxes sound ...neutral , I guess (they are used in the garage 1/2 the time all I hear is the air compressor ) . These particular speakers don't sound horny.

I can see by your link that you are wise in all things two way ! Or if not it's not for lack of trying :D

[Hamilton]

I'm not sure what a Marshall stack sounds like with a Les Paul :p :p but I vote for 4430s with minimum 400 watts a side. Zilch is a two-way specialist.

[joe]

since we have a guitar slinger on here maybe I'll list some reference tunes for tone as is common practice for ampheads , like me.

This list is a little different though these are the songs I would like to reproduce , with a stereo , as effectively as reasonably possible .

led zep "when the levee breaks"
van halen "you really got me " "baluchitherium"
deep purple " smoke on the water " OF COURSE ! "sweet child in time"
motorhead " we are the road crew " "orgasmatron"
mountain "mississippi queen"
Jimi " voodoo child " " peace in mississipi"

Those tunes are all good "stereo checkers " ! I've been usin' em for years !

Since we have gone on a 2 way slant here maybe you boys could point up the possible merits/drawbacks of a UREI type design with a single altec duplex ? I know I said jbl in the beginning but I really meant lansing products generally. :blink:

So tell me the subjective qualities of those 2 way 4430 like systems , if you please.

[Robh3606]

I have a Urei 811c clone as my center channel. It's a very nice sounding speaker however it needs a sub. Most of the Urei's will even some with the helper woofers.

Rob:)

[Hamilton]

So tell me the subjective qualities of those 2 way 4430 like systems , if you please.
There is only one reason why I have 4430s instead of 43xxs. When I went speaker shopping in the late 80's I only had $2000 to spend.

[joe]

"I have a Urei 811c clone as my center channel. It's a very nice sounding speaker however it needs a sub. Most of the Urei's will even some with the helper woofers.

Rob:)"

There is only one reason why I have 4430s instead of 43xxs. When I went speaker shopping in the late 80's I only had $2000 to spend.

I see buy these last two posts that perhaps the urei's will not do the whole job alone and that the 4430 is close to the pinnacle of 2 way speaker development , or we'll just say that to keep from dragging on interminably , and because I'm convinced !

Now maybe the 3 way believers will pitch in with their favorite ?


Sorry for the bold type ! Too many features on this forum ! :blah:

[4313B]

Zilch is a two-way specialist.While I appreciate your enthusiasm...

[Hamilton]

While I appreciate your enthusiasm...
Giskard, you know I'm just another low-life construction worker, thus, I think all you guys are experts. So.......I have an honest question :

For my budget he designed the LE14A, 2426/2342, nL200t3 H-T cabinets...would you think that there is something inferior about them? Zilch was a tremendous help to me, more than anyone will know.

[4313B]

For my budget he designed the LE14A, 2426/2342, nL200t3 H-T cabinetsWhatever works. This is DYI. Anything goes. You build it and post pictures, we'll look at them.

[Robh3606]

For my budget he designed the LE14A, 2426/2342, nL200t3 H-T cabinets...would you think that there is something inferior about them? Zilch was a tremendous help to me, more than anyone will know.

No. How do you like them??? After all you have an advantage, you have them!


Rob:)

[Hamilton]

You build it and post pictures, we'll look at them.
Cool. I think you're might have already seen them.

[Zilch]

Show the killer grilles you made for 'em, Hamilton!! :thmbsup:

Giskard already posted the curve on Hamilton's box tuning in this thread:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8365

[I THINK he liked it. :p ]

If I've got the T/S parameters right (below,) LE14H-3 likes even a smaller box just fine. Same for LE14H-1, no?

And LE14A reconed with black Mogami LE14H-1 kits (now once again available, folks,) the same?

They're rockin' pretty good in those little 2.0 cuft. L55 cabinets I retuned to 30 Hz, above....

[4313B]

Cool. I think you're might have already seen them.Yeah but they look real nice.

[Hamilton]

Yeah but they look real nice.
Well, I appreciate that but I'm still disappointed on how I was not able to retain any veneer in front of the port tubes; there was nothing else I could do because of a communication error with the cabinet shop. (from now on I will be cutting my own panels)

Anyway, here's an inside pic showing the rear 2426 support along with the two-part epoxy I used to secure the tubes. The insulation is industrial grade stuff - super dense and very *itchy*.

The grill frame for these boxes is on the right; the other two are for B380 clones and the 2118J(2)/2426/2342 center speaker.

But, I know you're not into DYI stuff so.....I think we've seen enough of this nonsense. :p

[4313B]

But, I know you're not into DYI stuff so...Who told you that?

[Hamilton]

Ooops, I thought you kinda snickered at DYI...sorry 'bout that. I should have remembered better because you recently posted pics of that beautiful subwoofer cab. :bash:

[4313B]

I only snicker at some people's DIY because there is only so much goofiness a person can take with a straight face before cracking up laughing. You guys on this forum are actually pretty tame.

I've been "DIY" since Junior High. Rat Shack components started it all for me. Was that ever some awful sounding stuff. Then I got home schooled by a JBL Rep.

[Hamilton]

Rat Shack components started it all for me. Was that ever some awful sounding stuff. Then I got home schooled by a JBL Rep.
You are being kind with the word "awful". Lower grade components would be tough to find.

Remember in the early 70's when they started putting aluminum dust covers on their guitar speakers to sucker in the wanna-be's.

"Realistic"

lol

[joe]

Alright I'm gonna do it ! sort of .

I'm gonna build some le14 sub/bass enclosures using Zilch's citation 7.4 recipe and ,for the time being , plop L100's on top and cut some of the bottom out of 'em .
Cause you know how L100's are they sound kind of overfull at times , not muddy , overfull . I'm reminded of those cartoons where the speaker jumps up and down , that's what an L100 reminds me of .

Later on I may do something else to top off the le14's , maybe a horn maybe 4313's . Right now I have l100's and le14's wouldn't break me so I'll take the path of least resistance .

Got any ideas on the frequencies to cross these things over ? About how much will I have to run the subs down ? they will be more efficient no ?

[4313B]

Zilch's citation 7.4 recipe:rotfl: And Madrigal handed over the recipe to Zilch when?

Well, here's how I see things. Zilch has been hammering away at trying to make this forum his number one source of everything in his life for several years now I am finally willing to let him have it. He really NEEDS this forum whereas everyone else kind of just comes and goes.

He's come a very long way since becoming a member and no one else here can touch him as far as learning so much in such a short amount of time, at least no one who would admit to it it seems. I was surprised at a few of his recent posts, they highlighted a few gapping holes in the knowledge base but then another very long term senior member shocked me with a similar revelation a week or two ago with respect to himself. Oh well. I'm pretty easy to fool since I take people at their word and sure as hell don't put much time and effort into the "politics" of interpersonal relationships.

Regardless, you all continue to think that Zilch has come up with all this stuff and have a great day ok? :)

Zilch - feel free to run rampant, it's all yours. I won't be "checking" any of your work going forward. :)

BTW, with respect to Madrigal and Citation, here's something pretty funny - http://www.hififraud.com/

[joe]

No Zilch was not the originator the citation design , but he has experimented with it , using le14 variants, more than anyone else I know.

That is useful knowledge that I may benefit from.

[Zilch]

I was surprised at a few of his recent posts, they highlighted a few gapping holes in the knowledge base..

Well, it's hard to remember it all. Sometimes I've got to think it through again and again. Somebody wants to use 2235H as a subwoofer, there's stuff gotta be considered. It ain't a slam dunk....


Regardless, you all continue to think that Zilch has come up with all this stuff and have a great day ok?I believe everybody understands and appreciates that I don't lay claim to much other than actually doing stuff and documenting what may be of interest to others here, largely in hope that they might be encouraged to try some of it, as well as pursue their own ideas, themselves. That's where the FUN is! :thmbsup:

There's more to be accomplished with a couple of plumber's test plugs and an inexpensive RTA than many might otherwise imagine....


Zilch - ... I won't be "checking" any of your work going forward.:(

[4313B]

It ain't a slam dunk....For some it is easier than others. Knowledge and experience facilitate implementation.

No Zilch was not the originator the citation design , but he has experimented with it , using le14 variants, more than anyone else I know.And that has been my point all along and why this forum is so terribly boring. One or two guys, neither real stellar in depth and breadth of experience are all that post anything remotely resembling anything of real substance here (DIY projects don't count, they are nearly always interesting on this particular website and frankly, there should be a whole lot more of them now that we have the category). They definitely get A's for effort but what is everyone else doing? Are they simply too busy with everything else? We've got six posts now from someone who is actually quite interesting and that's it. That works out to exactly one post per year that I've been here. I'd classify that as a real big drought! :rotfl:

[joe]

I've read those 6 posts and they were sweet ! As I understand it he doesn't come around more often because he's afraid he'll get "mugged" Or he is otherwise too busy ?

I also post on speedtalk from time to time . Some keenly intelligent individuals post there on a daily basis , whether or not they are pestered by neophytes .....

So in lieu of a more "interesting" individual I am prepared to ride this out with the ones who will advise me .

[Hamilton]

Regardless, you all continue to think that Zilch has come up with all this stuff and have a great day ok? :)
Now you know that's not true. I remember when you enlightened Zilch on the L200t3 and its crossover, and he thanked you for that. And now I'm thanking you for that because it was the basis for my DYI's, and I could not be more pleased with their excellent performance.

Also I'm very aware of all the links you've posted regarding catalogs and speaker .pdfs. Your knowledge of this stuff is almost frightening, if not at least intimidating.

But anyway, we talk to Zilch because he talks to us...it's not anymore complicated than that.

I do have a question regarding a DYI SR4722X, Giskard, if you're interested.

[4313B]

As I understand it he doesn't come around more often because he's afraid he'll get "mugged" Or he is otherwise too busy ?He's pretty busy. This being the 60th means he's even more busy than usual. The end of this year is going to be fantastic. I am so excited for Greg and for JBL.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I know what you mean but what I find quite profound is that outside this tiny tiny drop in the bucket of global DIY loudspeaker knowledge there are numerous excellent diy speaker designs like those on Speaker Builder Home Page and its obvious that any two home designers who know what they are doing can come up with two very different but original excellent loudspeakers using identical components.

Not so according what amounts to the "only the JBL way" of doing things around here which in the big world scheme of things focuses on what is not necessarily held as the popular held way of doing things.

That being the case why would anyone with the where with all bother posting here otherwise.

I actually find that incredibly boring but perhaps it comes down to the limitations of how to create the West Coast Sound with only a select range of drivers and usable crossover designs.

[Zilch]

There's undeniable competence elsewhere, yes, but there's "special" stuff here.

As example, I'm testing polar response of asymmetric horns today.

Nothing comes anywhere close to H3100....

------

"West Coast Sound" is a low blow. I'm not sure I know what it is anymore, even.

[But I THINK I could make it happen if I hadta.... :p ]

[Rudy Kleimann]

Well,Anyway, here's an inside pic showing the rear 2426 support along with the two-part epoxy I used to secure the tubes. The insulation is industrial grade stuff - super dense and very *itchy*.

Hey, Hamilton- I too have eyed up the same "Mineral fiber" insulation on constuction jobs over the years and wondered about its' usefulness in speaker building. It looks as though it should be highly effect in damping, although everybody in JBL-land stresses the unique properties of fiberglass insulation. I'm not sure why this would be so.

One big problem to watch for: loose particles or 'slivers' of (any kind of) insulation/damping material can destroy a speaker if it gets drawn into the voice coil/gap region by the pumping action of cone motion. That has concerned me a bit about the mineral fiber insulation. It may need covering with cheese cloth or similar to avoid the insulation sloughing off, becoming airborne and ending up in the VC gap.

Comments, anyone? Giskard?