Originally Posted by hjames
I meant no offense, just as you meant no offense. I just used what you said to illustrate a point. We all have our favorites. Ours is JBL!
I meant no offense, just as you meant no offense. I just used what you said to illustrate a point. We all have our favorites. Ours is JBL!
JBL has been around a long time and have produced so many different loudspeakers. Some have been obnoxious boomers and others have some of the cleanest tightest bass I have heard... so you and your "audiophile" friends are probably both right... you are likely thinking of different systems.
Widget
Agreed. I will also point out that the opposite holds true as well. Some people will defend what they have because they can not afford better.
Well said.
I find those elements to be absolutely essential for me, too. I think microdynamics and transient speeds come closer to recreating an actual performance than depth and soundstage. Even timbre comes in second place if I'm holding a values contest. The "JBL sound" is more actual, than the artificial ingredients sprinkled on by many current offerings. It appears that JBL sorta lost their way for a few years, but it now appears that they are returning to their roots with that JBL sound again. It's nice to see a company accept, embrace, and refine the signature qualities that are evident in their products. Too many manufacturers are trying to be inert, and it results in products with no soul.None of them had what I would call real scale in terms of bass weight and dynamic contrast. These properties are essential for me. (I).....realised I needed to spend probably $25000 or more to get the accuracy and literal dimension of reproduction I was looking for and frankly I figure if I polish the old lantern in the 4345's at home correctly for long enough I will far surpass what I could reasonably afford. (I have already imho)
I am working hard on a pair of 4345's right now, and your words are very encouraging!
van den hull is a big companie compared to the brands they talk about.I might not know some of them, but I have heard A.J. Van denHul's little 2-ways, and his amps. The speakers weren't bad, and the amps were "OK", but I think he should stick to making his wonderful cartridges.
I still have one of his Frog's with silver coils he custom made for moi.
van den hull is nice actually. He just loves music.
Ive discovered that most of the guys at "hear"dont go to live concerts. And some of em never heard a live rock show. That explanes a lot i think. they think they know how it should sound but hevent experienced it first hand.
anyone with a nice everest 2 link i can use.?
finally i have a pair of 604 8g's....there not easy to find in the netherlands
ya, there talking about those Best Buy specials from the late 90's,those even turned me off but, maybe I was expecting too much from those cheap(money wise) speakers. I also believe this is the reason that alot of the current generation was disapointed with the JBL name. I do understand the economics of this decision.
What normal person wouldn't like the vintage stuff? You would have to either be deaf or just plain biased not to like this stuff.
I never heard the real expensive stuff and I'm sure I never will but I also know that no one has ever made a speaker like the L100 that just blew everyone away in such a small size.
I wish there was a current model today by JBL comprable to the L100.4311.4312,etc;. It is not a good thing that I have to sell the JBL name on just the vintage stuff. There isn't much of that stuff left. If your going to sell at best buy then sell a speaker that catches the imagination make it sound like the L100 and everything will be ok.
Now a days when you go to best buy and buy a bookshelf system by Jbl and remove the woofer from the cabinet ,your lucky if it weights 1 lb.
Charts and graphs do not sell speakers, when people go to buy speakers the first thing that catches your eye is the design,not a square box anymore.
Who has the oppurtunity to listen to $60,000 speakers? Who has the oppurtunity to buy them? This isin't what made the name JBL. The little guys like you and me who saved for a year to buy a square box that was named the L100 this is what made JBL. I might add also the L100 also made you want to buy othere Jbl products as well.I think Jbl has to make some awesome sounding lower end gear that catches the imagination like the old days with the same build quality that will want to make you go for the better stuff.
I can't wait for the day when I can go to Best Buy and pay $500.00 for a good looking JBL that will match the sound of some of the vintage stuff, but I think those days are over with, then you all wonder why Bose is selling so well.
I know I will get the people who don't care for the L100 riled up here but I only mentioned this model because this model changed the market and I might say for the better at least for JBL.
nice, nice, would love to hear te L100 one dayya, there talking about those Best Buy specials from the late 90's,those even turned me off but, maybe I was expecting too much from those cheap(money wise) speakers. I also believe this is the reason that alot of the current generation was disapointed with the JBL name. I do understand the economics of this decision.
What normal person wouldn't like the vintage stuff? You would have to either be deaf or just plain biased not to like this stuff.
I never heard the real expensive stuff and I'm sure I never will but I also know that no one has ever made a speaker like the L100 that just blew everyone away in such a small size.
I wish there was a current model today by JBL comprable to the L100.4311.4312,etc;. It is not a good thing that I have to sell the JBL name on just the vintage stuff. There isn't much of that stuff left. If your going to sell at best buy then sell a speaker that catches the imagination make it sound like the L100 and everything will be ok.
Now a days when you go to best buy and buy a bookshelf system by Jbl and remove the woofer from the cabinet ,your lucky if it weights 1 lb.
Charts and graphs do not sell speakers, when people go to buy speakers the first thing that catches your eye is the design,not a square box anymore.
Who has the oppurtunity to listen to $60,000 speakers? Who has the oppurtunity to buy them? This isin't what made the name JBL. The little guys like you and me who saved for a year to buy a square box that was named the L100 this is what made JBL. I might add also the L100 also made you want to buy othere Jbl products as well.I think Jbl has to make some awesome sounding lower end gear that catches the imagination like the old days with the same build quality that will want to make you go for the better stuff.
I can't wait for the day when I can go to Best Buy and pay $500.00 for a good looking JBL that will match the sound of some of the vintage stuff, but I think those days are over with, then you all wonder why Bose is selling so well.
I know I will get the people who don't care for the L100 riled up here but I only mentioned this model because this model changed the market and I might say for the better at least for JBL.
finally i have a pair of 604 8g's....there not easy to find in the netherlands
A few misguided souls (some here but mostly elsewhere) occasionally mock my preference for JBL consumer models from the '90s and '00s. Prejudicial and judgmental statements occur within brands as well as between them.
One of the great things about my JBL collection is the variety of sonic pleasures available. One of the oft-claimed failures of a particular model is how "it's not" another model. That is the ultimate in obvious, unnecessary, obtuse observation.
I like it because it's different. Those audiophiles who are looking for a uniform perfect sound are on a fool's errand in my opinion. The destination will never be reached.
Some days I enjoy listening to MTM-styled speakers with soft dome driven CD horns. Other times I like horns with Ti compression drivers in them. I thoroughly enjoy listening to Ti direct radiators, as well as paper, carbon-filled, and polypropylene drivers. Some Al drivers can be quite satisfying.
I'm luckier than most people here because I can listen to so many varieties of sound, yet all JBL. The diversity of the product line is its great strength in my opinion, not a weakness.
Some folks are looking for a better cracker and champagne to go with their caviar. I can't consume crackers, caviar, and champagne every day, though I love to do it sometimes. On a daily basis, it's boring and pointless.
I like to go back up to the world's best buffet for baked chicken one time, prime rib another, then baked salmon, perhaps some sushi, Peking duck, lobster, tofu, and how about some Korean BBQ while I'm at it. Oh, a spoon of caviar, too. That's JBL to me.
"What normal person wouldn't like the vintage stuff? You would have to either be deaf or just plain biased not to like this stuff."
Nonsense. I think some of the vintage (and new) JBL (and Altec too) is lousy. To imply that I'm biased, deaf or abnormal is ridiculous. Well, biased or deaf anyway.
I see you didn't include "Burger King" in your dishes. I agree with your philosophy but I might ask how many of your systems are purchased from Best Buy? I am sure I can do the same thing you talk about if I had a vintage set for every type of music there is. My budget doesn't allow me to have caviar or prime rib, I can only go to Burger king but when I do I would like to think that the meal I'm buying is well worth the money I'm paying for. I guess I'm just satisfied with the burgers of the world.
I don't expect all the speakers to sound like the L100 nor would I want them to, what I am trying to say here is the build quality that you got with that model or any model of that era. You could feel the weight of each individual driver and you just knew you were holding quality, the drivers in an L100 weight more than most speakers with cabinets now being offered at the cheap outlet's.
I know there are different speakers for different application's I just want every application to be pleasing to my ears without spending $60,000 for them.
(More humour)
Your building a pair of those!
Well one of the reasons I did those little auditions was to figure out if I should give it away with 4345's and sell off all the parts to someone who might put them to good use and buy something else.
So will I or won't I do the deed?. Not quite yet.
Sorry.
Ian
Edit,
One thing that came out of the conversation with sale rep yesterday was not everyone knows what the real thing sounds like. I am not talking about sitting behind a desk at a pop concert.
Conversely its much harder to find a loudspeaker that will sound real as opposed to its sounds good (like a pair of L100's) on everything.
For example DR Crawfords Legend Kantu's sounded superior in terms of dynamics in the mids and Hf areas over the PCM's but elsewhere it didn't get bigger as you turn up the level. With the PCM it was the other way around but they were not as strong in the Mid and Hf areas
With the larger JBL monitors that is a given! Okay they wont image as precisely or have the velvet smoothness of the comtemporary siblings. Save that for a cute set of near field monitors but the novelty of wearing a large set of headphones wears off fairly quickly
The next PCM up is $8000 which no doubt is dynamically more expressive but that is an expensive way of finding out just how good your own speakers at home really are.
The thing is it quite interesting to see where that design (4345) is in the current market along with many other JBL designs.
One thing is for sure if you go looking for something off the floor that is as big and is at least as accurate and dynamically expressive you will need 2nd mortgage on the house.
Enjoy your project.
Ian
Agreed. I will also point out that the opposite holds true as well. Some people will defend what they have because they can not afford better.
Well said.
I find those elements to be absolutely essential for me, too. I think microdynamics and transient speeds come closer to recreating an actual performance than depth and soundstage. Even timbre comes in second place if I'm holding a values contest. The "JBL sound" is more actual, than the artificial ingredients sprinkled on by many current offerings. It appears that JBL sorta lost their way for a few years, but it now appears that they are returning to their roots with that JBL sound again. It's nice to see a company accept, embrace, and refine the signature qualities that are evident in their products. Too many manufacturers are trying to be inert, and it results in products with no soul.
I am working hard on a pair of 4345's right now, and your words are very encouraging!
I agree that's nonsense.
Few "normal" persons like it at all, anymore....
Briefly. Very briefly....nice, nice, would love to hear te L100 one day
That is not the concensus on this forum,in less I am missing something. I forgot I must be careful with my P's and Q's here on this forum because someone might just take the word"normal" and turn it into something not meant or implied!
Why do you guys keep saying you have to sell JBL on vintage only?? What's wrong with the L20T-L200T series from the 80's or the XPL and L 1-L7 series from the 90's??? What about the Performance Series??? When you say vintage to me that's the 70's and back gear. There was plenty of good stuff after that.
Rob
You were talking about the marketplace at large. This forum is hardly representative.
Despite that, there's plenty of members here will tell you what sucks, and why.
That doesn't mean there aren't others who like it, of course, and who, in some cases, will also pay big bucks for it.
There are places other than BB. Frys and Tweeter come to mind that sell JBL, and both sell higher end JBLs than BB(Studio L and PS)I can't wait for the day when I can go to Best Buy and pay $500.00 for a good looking JBL that will match the sound of some of the vintage stuff, but I think those days are over with, then you all wonder why Bose is selling so well.
And not all vintage JBL was worth buying either, much less keeping it for years. The Aquarius line comes to mind. And imho most of the '70's bookself speakers.
One has to pick the models worth keeping, Paragon, Hartsfield, L212, 250Ti, to name a few.
And I don't see that Boze sells any better than anything else. The only thing Boze has is slick ads on DHDTH. Of coarse there has to be mindless, deaf simps to buy those or Def Tech and other such junk.
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