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Thread: Altec & TAD drivers

  1. #1
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    Altec & TAD drivers

    I'm using Altec 828 and 816 cabinets loaded with Altec 515-8GHP, and I also have some Altec 421-8LF drivers too.
    I know the sound of these, and how much SPL they generate...
    ...but what if I use TAD 1603's?
    What can i expect?
    It would be an 18bd xover at 800hz with no LF cutoff.


    thanks
    tom

  2. #2
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    > You can expect a "softer, less dynamic sound" when switching to TAD from either of those Altec models .

    > That said, the one person on this site who could really expound ( & expand ) on doing swaps like this , passed away a year & a half ago ( RIP Scott Fitlin ) .

    > You do realize that both of the cabinet designs which you built ( 816 & 828 ) are mid-range heavy, right ?

    > If you want more bass ( & want to match the dynamics of what you currently get from those cabinets ) , build a large bass horn // OTOH, if you don't have the room for horn loaded sub then build a Bass-Reflex type, housing an 18" woofer of some sort ( 8 -10 cu ft if it's JBL ) .


  3. #3
    Senior Member richluvsound's Avatar
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    Tad 1603

    Teddy


    .... the 1603 is used in PA applications . Not really sensitive enough for home use ... I think Widget could be a great help with all things TAD . He may have suggestions . Maybe shoot him a PM

    Good Luck , Rich

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    Thanks Earl,

    Yep, sure do miss Scott, found this from him on the subject:

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...5-vs-Altec-515



    In the existing system I have there are 4 x 515-8GHP and 2 x 421-8LF - in 828 and 826 cabinets respectively.

    The subs are crossed over at 100Hz and go through a DBX100 boom box

    But I still feel there is something missing 100-200Hz
    This is why I'm thinking about the TAD 1603's

    The set up is intended for something between a massive home hi-fi and a nightclub sound system.

    What I want to know is will the TAD's be able to satisfy the need for extra the 100-200Hz ?
    If I'm going to invest in them then it's going to cost a lot to get 'em re-coned and shipped to the UK!

    Scotty mentions in the post that he would not mix different drivers in the system, but says it can work. Maybe one day if I build more cabinets I can get the niceness of the 515's AND the extra power of the TAD's?


    Thanks
    Tom



    Quote Originally Posted by Earl K View Post
    > You can expect a "softer, less dynamic sound" when switching to TAD from either of those Altec models .

    > That said, the one person on this site who could really expound ( & expand ) on doing swaps like this , passed away a year & a half ago ( RIP Scott Fitlin ) .

    > You do realize that both of the cabinet designs which you built ( 816 & 828 ) are mid-range heavy, right ?

    > If you want more bass ( & want to match the dynamics of what you currently get from those cabinets ) , build a large bass horn // OTOH, if you don't have the room for horn loaded sub then build a Bass-Reflex type, housing an 18" woofer of some sort ( 8 -10 cu ft if it's JBL ) .


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    Quote Originally Posted by richluvsound View Post
    Teddy


    .... the 1603 is used in PA applications . Not really sensitive enough for home use ... I think Widget could be a great help with all things TAD . He may have suggestions . Maybe shoot him a PM

    Good Luck , Rich

    thanks Rich... the setup is neither home use or PA. Or should I say it's both... I do feel a little more bass is needed in the 100hz-200hz area. I would very much like to see what Mr Widget has to say - I'll get on it...
    the 515's are wonderfully detailed and just the kind of sound I want, but there are some who think a boost in output is needed... but I still want that kind of sound... what do you think? Other options? Maybe something cheaper than the TAD's?!!

    Tom


    Tom

  6. #6
    Senior Member richluvsound's Avatar
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    Tom,

    It would be useful to explain how you envisage using the components ... FQ range ?

    Tads could be horn loaded ,but not really for LM duty ... wasted there !

    Rich

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    Quote Originally Posted by richluvsound View Post
    Tom,

    It would be useful to explain how you envisage using the components ... FQ range ?

    Tads could be horn loaded ,but not really for LM duty ... wasted there !

    Rich
    FQ range? LM duty?
    sorry mate, not up to speed with the abbreviations!
    but would love to explain so i can get some help... where should i start?

    Tom

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    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by teddy.edwards1 View Post
    What can i expect?
    Simply compare their Thiele/Small specs. That should tell you a lot. Fs, Vas, Qts mainly.

  9. #9
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Maybe it's the cabinets. Aren't they rather known for having a corkscrew response in the region of concern?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    Simply compare their Thiele/Small specs. That should tell you a lot. Fs, Vas, Qts mainly.
    Thanks Lee... loving the Waldorf project by the way...

    Theile/Samll

    Fs TAD 28Hz ALTEC 37Hz
    Qts TAD 0.34 ALTEC 0.187
    Vas TAD 304L ALTEC 342L (I think the 828's are just under 300L in volume)
    Xmax TAD 8mm ALTEX 3mm

    The higher Qts of the TAD would indicate a more pronounced low frequency output, but the 515 would deliver a more controlled 'tighter' output? I'm quite new to understanding the damping effects of electrical/mechanical or overall Q...
    Presumably the lowe free air resonance of the TAD would indicated more low end power, and the Xmax being higher also would?

    This still doesn't tell me about the character of the sound so much though, does it? Perhaps you can help me with further insight?





    Thanks
    Tom

  11. #11
    Senior Member richluvsound's Avatar
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    Youv'e answered your own questions !

    Quote Originally Posted by teddy.edwards1 View Post
    Thanks Lee... loving the Waldorf project by the way...

    Theile/Samll

    Fs TAD 28Hz ALTEC 37Hz
    Qts TAD 0.34 ALTEC 0.187
    Vas TAD 304L ALTEC 342L (I think the 828's are just under 300L in volume)
    Xmax TAD 8mm ALTEX 3mm

    The higher Qts of the TAD would indicate a more pronounced low frequency output, but the 515 would deliver a more controlled 'tighter' output? I'm quite new to understanding the damping effects of electrical/mechanical or overall Q...
    Presumably the lowe free air resonance of the TAD would indicated more low end power, and the Xmax being higher also would?

    This still doesn't tell me about the character of the sound so much though, does it? Perhaps you can help me with further insight?





    Thanks
    Tom
    I would use the TAD on Low F , the Altec Low - Mid and the horns above with a 2405 UHF . The Crossover points are roughly :

    Tad 15's - 28 Htz to 300 ish

    Altec 15's -280 Htz to 700 ish .... A bit wasted . JBL 2123 or 2122 would be better in terms of size IMHO

    Altec CD - 700 to 7.0 Khtz

    JBL 2405 0r 2402 . 7 to 18-20K .

    Sonics are too dependant on amp , cab , and crossover design to offer any opinion . I would look to something like LAB Gruppen , Mc2 or the Crown K2 running the Tads. You have the scope t EQ what ever you want really !

    Hope this helps . There are people here with the knowledge to help you if you give them all the info they need

    Rich

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    OK, I see.
    The system is comprised of:

    Altec 828 w/Altec 515 drivers
    20-800hz

    JBL 2395 w/2441 driver
    800hz-7khz

    JBL 2405
    7khz-20khz

    These are in a 3 way active crossover setup using 18db/oct butterworth filters.

    In addition to the above there is optional sub reinforcement crossed at 100hz - 18db/oct.

    The drivers would be powered by BGW GTA amplifiers


    Got to say I never thought about introducing a 4th driver into the full range... thought the TADs might be a good substitute for the Altec drivers, not a complement...


    Tom






    Quote Originally Posted by richluvsound View Post
    I would use the TAD on Low F , the Altec Low - Mid and the horns above with a 2405 UHF . The Crossover points are roughly :

    Tad 15's - 28 Htz to 300 ish

    Altec 15's -280 Htz to 700 ish .... A bit wasted . JBL 2123 or 2122 would be better in terms of size IMHO

    Altec CD - 700 to 7.0 Khtz

    JBL 2405 0r 2402 . 7 to 18-20K .

    Sonics are too dependant on amp , cab , and crossover design to offer any opinion . I would look to something like LAB Gruppen , Mc2 or the Crown K2 running the Tads. You have the scope t EQ what ever you want really !

    Hope this helps . There are people here with the knowledge to help you if you give them all the info they need

    Rich

  13. #13
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    Whilst I'm at it I might as well list the amps as you're right it does have a big effect.

    Altec 515-8GHP - BGW GTA
    JBL 2441 - BGW250
    JBL2405 - Crown D75

    Thanks
    Tom

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    mounting...

    on a more practical level, does anyone know if the share the same mounting dimensions?
    looks to me like they have a different diameter for the bolt holes?

    tom

  15. #15
    Senior Member richluvsound's Avatar
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    Tads are 16"
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