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Thread: Hammonds, Leslies and more...

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    Todd, I cannot find this reference - but if you have a second, can you explain this a bit further?
    As Tin said, there are 96 tone wheels. But five of these wheels are used for counterbalance and so produce no frequency. Recognize that each wheel represents an individual note/frequency. No frequency dividers are used and this is a purely electro-mechanical affair. This allows 91 actual notes to be played.

    Pulling the 16' drawbar (left-most bar) produces a "subharmonic" one octave lower that the note actually played on the keyboard. With just this bar pulled, the lowest C on the keyboard (and pedal board) is 32.7 Hz. Each subsequent C is one octave higher and double the frequency.

    The keyboard has 5 octaves of 12 notes and a C on top for 61 notes (requiring 61 tone wheels). Push in the 16' drawbar and pull out the 8' bar and everything goes up one octave. This requires 12 more wheels - now 73 are accounted for. Push in the 8' drawbar and pull out the 4' bar and everything goes up another octave requiring 12 more wheels - now 85 are accounted for leaving 6 wheels. These 6 wheel takes you up to F#8. F#8 has a frequency of 5,919.92 Hz.

    Any note on the Hammond above this note folds back down an octave. This is most discernable with the 1' drawbar that does a double fold over the two top octaves and you really hear it in music when the organ is going up a scale and all of a sudden sounds lower again. It just sounds like the 1' drawbar drops out at the G.

    I think that my D (produced sometime between 1939 and 1942) had less foldover. I think the balance wheels were actually used as tone generators.

    Anywho, the top frequency generated by the tone wheels is F#8 that has a frequency of ~5,919.92 Hz.

    Recognize that these are sine waves and have no harmonics (to speak of). Any other type of wave would have its own set of harmonics and when you are "building" a wave form of your own chosen harmonics that is not what you want.

    Any frequencys above this F#8 are associated with "noise" such as key click which is also "undesireable."

  2. #17
    Senior Member Hoerninger's Avatar
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    Interesting discussion here - just my 2cts:

    Theoretical any waveform can be produced by an appropriate edge. But the Hammond uses additional RC filtering (as far as I know) to achieve a sine wave.

    To come back to organ players:
    Ady Zehnpfennig is a well known player for the "Dr.Böhm Orgel" and he has used these instruments with virtuosity. Dr.Böhm organs were sold as kits. The different add ons made each organ an unicum.
    In contrast to the Hammond with its unique electromechanical sound generator and the addition of harmonics the Dr.Böm Orgel used an electrical saw tooth wave generator and took the bars to subtract overtones.
    ___________
    Peter
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  3. #18
    Senior Member SMKSoundPro's Avatar
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    Man, Do I love this thread!!!

    Great organ grinder names and the technology of the instrument that provided them with their "voice."

    My dad worked at the Hammond Oran Studio in Moline, Ill. from 63-73. Then to a different piano and organ seller in Davenport, Ia. He would always go on the Hammond service on Tuesdays with a WWII radio tech that was amazing in his skills. Dad learned alot from him, which he taught me.

    Always carry a yardstick, or something else about the same to press down all of the white keys at a time to shift the buss bars. Dad always had full set of tubes in the bench with extra rotor belts for the Leslie.

    Dad was different in that he always used the PR-40 tone cabinet with the 122 leslie. I see many kits consisting of just the organ and leslie, now. Dad's pedals were just flat wore out and the wood worn away from 30 years of 6 night's a week playing. He/we added a Krueger String bass unit to the pedal board with their little leaf contacts. Sounded great.

    I have a CD of Eddie Layton. He was always one of dad's favorites. "Skatin' with Layton" was one of the record albums in the family stack.

    Has anyone mentioned Booker T?

    I still have dad's B200 combo with the matching 823 leslie. Chrome legs and very cool. Solid state insides, but with a full size combo leslie. Both my dad and his uncle, my great uncle, Al Koeller played it at the Ameriacan Legion dances in East Moline every Sunday night. What an amazing place. The only men were on the bandstand, with all of the widowed women looking for someone to dance with.

    I also have a PR-40 for parts, and wasa thinking of turning it into some cool retro hifi speaker with a pair of JBL 150's and a 375 and close up the open back! Saw a pair like that once. The pair went for BIG money!

    GREAT THREAD!

    I have never heard a B3, or any other organ, with JBL's. I know the K145 was touted for that use. Don't believe I've ever seen or heard one.

    Thank you for thread. It is healing.


    Great Uncle Al, dead
    Dad, dead
    #1 son, dead.
    I'm #2 son.
    #3 son in Air Force Band.

    Scotty.
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    One step above: "Two Tin Cans and a String!"
    Longtime Alaskan Low-Fi Guy - E=MC² ±3db

  4. #19
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    http://www.discretesynthesizers.com/nova/intro.htm
    A link from the archives on the Novatron....if you want to know more, you'll have to dig Laurens up.....

  5. #20
    Senior Señor boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Rinkerman View Post
    I didn't want to totally hijack this thread...
    Todd and Tim, thanks for the detail. Don't worry about "hijacking" this thread - we can move this to a separate Hammond thread if you want (anyone?). The explainations are really excellent. Keep the discussion going if need-be.

    Todd - I've played around with the drawbars a few times. Never could understand how they worked. Great stuff.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Doc Mark's Avatar
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    Hey, Scotty, and All,

    Yes, this is a great thread, on several levels! Thanks for posting further info about your familie's involvement in music! Great stuff!

    The keyboard player in our band used to play a Hammond B3, with two Leslies, plus he had a Rhodes piano, a Hohner clavinet, and a Moog synth. All great stuff, in it's day. He ended up replacing the regular Leslie speakers with JBL's, though I don't remember what he used, and all of us LOVED the sound he got. We felt like it was stronger, punchier, and much better detailed, than whatever speaker he had in there originally. We were on the road for 11 months of the year, for 5 straight years, and that keyboard system, with the Hammond and Leslie speakers, served us very well! Loved the sound of it! Take care, and God Bless!

    Every Good Wish,
    Doc
    The only thing that can never be taken away from you, is your honor. Cherish it, in yourself, and in others.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by boputnam View Post
    Todd and Tim, thanks for the detail. Don't worry about "hijacking" this thread - we can move this to a separate Hammond thread if you want (anyone?). The explainations are really excellent. Keep the discussion going if need-be.
    Bo, it might be easier to simply rename the thread Favorite Organists and Organs or Organs and Favorite Organists or some such. Then future searches could turn it up easily. Could you, as a mod, do this?

    Since Doc has mentioned it, will someone please start a Fender Rhodes thread?

    Clark
    Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
    Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears


  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoerninger View Post
    Interesting discussion here - just my 2cts:

    Theoretical any waveform can be produced by an appropriate edge. But the Hammond uses additional RC filtering (as far as I know) to achieve a sine wave.

    To come back to organ players:
    Ady Zehnpfennig is a well known player for the "Dr.Böhm Orgel" and he has used these instruments with virtuosity. Dr.Böhm organs were sold as kits. The different add ons made each organ an unicum.
    In contrast to the Hammond with its unique electromechanical sound generator and the addition of harmonics the Dr.Böm Orgel used an electrical saw tooth wave generator and took the bars to subtract overtones.
    ___________
    Peter

    Hammond is not the only organ to use drawbars and sine waves are not the only waves used in the "stacking synthesis of sounds.

    The Vox Continental, Super Continental, and Continental Baroque (that I had) also use drawbars. But they only have 8', 4', 2', "mixture" bars for pitch. But, there are two bars that let these pitches be "flutes" (sine waves), or "reeds" (square waves). These were actually produced for VOX by The Thomas Organ Company.

    BTW, I worked at the Thomas Organ Company ~1974 as an electronic line tech and we produced the VOX organs, cry babys, and even Vox Churchhill PA that used JBL 15" and 375s with Hartsfield horns/lenses. I had friends that used to dumpster dive for the lenses that they were always chucking out. We were on Hayvenhurst a couple blocks from the JBL Northridge facility.

    Similarly, the Farfisa Professional (used by Sylvester Stewart - Sly Stone) had 8 of the Hammond drawbars only missing the 1' bar. But each "bar" was actually a 4 position switch rather than the 9 position "switch" of the Hammond drawbars (i.e., off and 8 levels of volume).

    But the Farfisa had 8 bars for flutes (sine waves) and 8 bars for clarinets (square waves) that could be mixed.

    The Gulbransen President had similar drawbars to the Hammond for their "flutes" (both number and settings), and even the Yamaha Electone used the bars, but similar to the way the Farfisa did it with the multiposition switches.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Links

    A tiny article in two pages named
    Whatever Happened to Farfisa and Vox Organs in Mainstream Rock Music?

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ox.html?cat=33

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...?page=2&cat=33

    This guy knows a lot about Vox:

    http://www.voxshowroom.com/equipment/index.html


    Likewise:

    http://www.combo-organ.com/Vox/voxindex.htm

    His main page is a portal to all things combo organ:

    http://www.combo-organ.com/
    Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
    Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears


  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducatista47 View Post
    A tiny article in two pages named
    Whatever Happened to Farfisa and Vox Organs in Mainstream Rock Music?

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ox.html?cat=33

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...?page=2&cat=33

    This guy knows a lot about Vox:

    http://www.voxshowroom.com/equipment/index.html


    Likewise:

    http://www.combo-organ.com/Vox/voxindex.htm

    His main page is a portal to all things combo organ:

    http://www.combo-organ.com/

    For all I know, this could have been my old Continental Baroque.

    As for the article saying cheap..., these were ~$1,150 in 1969-1970 dollars. Somehow I got mine out of the Recycler for $125 in perfect shape and I paid an additional $250 for the VOX PA system (but not the Churchill). Later sold the organ for much more.



    Note that the upper keyboard is indentical to the Thomas Trianon organ and each key had its own independant "keyer" so that the keyboard could be polyphonic. The lower keyboard used the drawbars and the bass section could be separate, or be part of the lower manual.

    BTW, we also made the Moog satalites and integrated them into the organs too. I had a Moog Satalite that was "liberated" piece by piece by someone in the Moog department.

  11. #26
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    B3 Desktop Wallpapers

    The brochure touts the B3 for your living room. I wish!

    Here you are:

    http://www.hammond-organ.com/index.htm

    Go to "Desktop Images"

    This is a nice website. See the "Museum" and "History and Reference" sections. There is a very good photo of Jimmy McGriff in the Artists Gallery.

    Tidbit:

    2002 Re-introduction of the model B3. Critically acclaimed and accepted by the worlds most renowned Hammond Players, the 'New' B3 features Digital Tonewheel generation that produces 96 analogue frequencies, controlled by traditional analogue key contacts and drawbars! Looks, sounds and feels identical to the best of the original B3's.
    Look in "New Instruments" The B-3P portable looks awesome. $15K though.

    Thirty years ago a friend of mine had a huge white Hammond. I thought it was an X77, but the picture does not look like it. Maybe it was an HX100?

    Clark
    Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
    Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears


  12. #27
    Senior Señor boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducatista47 View Post
    Since Doc has mentioned it, will someone please start a Fender Rhodes thread?
    Ready when you guys are...

    bo

    "Indeed, not!!"

  13. #28
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    Hammonds, organs, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ducatista47 View Post
    Bo, it might be easier to simply rename the thread Favorite Organists and Organs or Organs and Favorite Organists or some such. Then future searches could turn it up easily. Could you, as a mod, do this?

    Since Doc has mentioned it, will someone please start a Fender Rhodes thread?

    Clark
    How about a thread that gives honors to the old, large Wurlitzer pipe
    organs? My mother (now deceased was a very accomplished organist
    and was very partial to Hammond organs.

    One of the LP records that my parents had, when I was a kid growing
    up in the mid-1950s, was by an organist named LEON BERRY, who
    played a Wurlitzer pipe organ at a skating rink in Chicago. He also had
    a large Wurlitzer pipe organ that he rescued from a theatre and had
    installed it in his BASEMENT (the Beast in the basement).

    I'm in the process of putting all my Leon Berry LP records onto CDs.
    The only Leon Berry LP record that I do not have was the very last
    one that he recorded, after his recording stint with Audio Fidelity
    Records had ended.

    Leon was truly a talented organist and he could make the Wurlitzer
    sound like an entire orchestra was performing. He was also very
    skilled at taking "standard tunes" and improvising on them. I never
    get tired of hearing him play the organ.

    I guess I'm getting old; I seem to like Leon Berry's music as much or
    more than all of the "classical (hard) rock" that I've acquired over
    the years (I'm 57 years old).

    Long live theatre-type pipe organ music & JBL!

    sincerely,

    Brad Anbro

  14. #29
    Senior Señor boputnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Anbro View Post
    How about a thread that gives honors to the old, large Wurlitzer pipe organs?
    I personally think these ideas are all good, however, I suggest we respond to input/posts rather that pre-parse, if you know what I mean.

    Todd and Tim did a phenomenal job in sharing their collective knowledge and experience on an instrument that many marvel at and yet did not fully understand. Thank-you, guys. Their contributions have already given me, personally, many hours of musing on why?/how?/oh!/wow... And, Clark rigthly suggested we dedicate a thread to this.

    Anyway, as always, we'll try and be responsive to content.

  15. #30
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    Some Hammond history for the weekend...The Hammond organ was derived from a late 1800's electronic instrument that took 30 railroad cars to transport, and was invented 20 years before the amplifier..true or false?

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