4343 Rotary switch

[Wagner]

I understood your point but ARs weren't the topic of the thread.

It's called an "example", as in "similar"; a lot of people hard wire or by-pass the AR pots too in order to cure aural ills but then wind up missing the flexibility they allowed; some hard wire or by-pass them and never look back

My suggestion/implication was to try servicing it first before jumping on the rip it out band wagon (if you think you might like or need to retain the option) I was not speaking in absolutes

I remember reading many times that the monitors with the switches were due to demands of the marketing department which felt they'd sell better if they weren't bi-amp-only. It's a compromise the engineers and designers didn't want to include and tell us we'd be better off without and that it could have been better executed had they used a better quality switch . . . or just left it out.

Which validates again my point and the example I used to help illustrate it; clearly, some people actually do use (as in need and or want) the option

For the third time now, that is what I was speaking to

A "better" quality switch versus no switch at all are two entirely different approaches (apples and oranges) and obviously with the latter one forfeits an option (the convenient one anyway)

Same (apples and oranges) as a switch that has the potential to work properly, as designed, if well serviced, versus one that is falling apart, literally

[Wagner]

Yep agree. Actually I have a pair of AR3a's that a previous owner had ripped the pots out of. It's one of my (many) planned projects to restore those back in one day.

Wonderful model; have heard many but never owned "3"s
Did own and do love the "5"s

That is unfortunate (if you don't have the old ones)
Modern replacements and L-pads just aren't the same (characteristically)
The first pair I ever did, I removed the originals and threw them away
Big case of "if I had known then what I know now" Way back when Layne Audio was still around and operating well (God Bless that poor guy)
Steve really pushed the L-pad upgrade so I went with them; the ones he sold me are very nice (still have the speakers, AR-2ax) but just not the same

I'd spend a reasonable amount of time on sourcing some old cabinet pulls and restoring them before you give up and go with modern replacements

Those old Aetna-Pollacks will clean up well, worth the effort

[SEAWOLF97]

Wonderful model; have heard many but never owned "3"s
Did own and do love the "5"s

That is unfortunate (if you don't have the old ones)
Modern replacements and L-pads just aren't the same (characteristically)
The first pair I ever did, I removed the originals and threw them away
Steve really pushed the L-pad upgrade so I went with them; the ones he sold me are very nice (still have the speakers, AR-2ax) but just not the samet

I've had 3's and 3A's . Liked the 3's better.
Also had bad pots. Ordered more from AR (mid 70's).
Backs will NOT come off cabs. Only way in is to removed 12in. LF driver and work
with 2 hands , soldering iron and light all in that hole. Feels like brain surgery.

drew out schems of old pots before replacing to make sure new were correct.
the old OEM ones were both wired differently.

[Goldjazz]

Actually the orignal pots are still there in mine but have been bipassed with a resistor. I actually have 2 pairs of ar3a's the second pair I need to reveneer, those a friend found beside the road.


QUOTE=Wagner;377010]Wonderful model; have heard many but never owned "3"s
Did own and do love the "5"s

That is unfortunate (if you don't have the old ones)
Modern replacements and L-pads just aren't the same (characteristically)
The first pair I ever did, I removed the originals and threw them away
Big case of "if I had known then what I know now" Way back when Layne Audio was still around and operating well (God Bless that poor guy)
Steve really pushed the L-pad upgrade so I went with them; the ones he sold me are very nice (still have the speakers, AR-2ax) but just not the same

I'd spend a reasonable amount of time on sourcing some old cabinet pulls and restoring them before you give up and go with modern replacements

Those old Aetna-Pollacks will clean up well, worth the effort[/QUOTE]

[Goldjazz]

Ha yeah I know what you mean about the access.

I've had 3's and 3A's . Liked the 3's better.
Also had bad pots. Ordered more from AR (mid 70's).
Backs will NOT come off cabs. Only way in is to removed 12in. LF driver and work
with 2 hands , soldering iron and light all in that hole. Feels like brain surgery.

drew out schems of old pots before replacing to make sure new were correct.
the old OEM ones were both wired differently.

[Wagner]

Actually the orignal pots are still there in mine but have been bipassed with a resistor. I actually have 2 pairs of ar3a's the second pair I need to reveneer, those a friend found beside the road.


QUOTE=Wagner;377010]Wonderful model; have heard many but never owned "3"s
Did own and do love the "5"s

That is unfortunate (if you don't have the old ones)
Modern replacements and L-pads just aren't the same (characteristically)
The first pair I ever did, I removed the originals and threw them away
Big case of "if I had known then what I know now" Way back when Layne Audio was still around and operating well (God Bless that poor guy)
Steve really pushed the L-pad upgrade so I went with them; the ones he sold me are very nice (still have the speakers, AR-2ax) but just not the same

I'd spend a reasonable amount of time on sourcing some old cabinet pulls and restoring them before you give up and go with modern replacements

Those old Aetna-Pollacks will clean up well, worth the effort

Your so far away, postage is ridiculous; I'd be happy to re-hab them for you if you wanted to mail them to me (as long as all the bits are still there)
Have had a couple on which the wipers were burned away; if you've got all the parts I can make them as good (better) than new
Had another Australian offer to give me (free of charge) a small piece of trim for a project I was working on last year; the costs (at least what he quoted me) was absurd
So much so that I had to pass on his gracious offer as the postage rate was so exorbitant

[Goldjazz]

Ah very kind of you Wagner. Thanks I cant ask you to do that but cheers for the offer. I don't mind tinkering so I may ask you a question or two how to do it if you don't mind teaching me how to fish someday. Cheers. Yeah shipping to/from here is pretty nuts.

Your so far away, postage is ridiculous; I'd be happy to re-hab them for you if you wanted to mail them to me (as long as all the bits are still there)
Have had a couple on which the wipers were burned away; if you've got all the parts I can make them as good (better) than new
Had another Australian offer to give me (free of charge) a small piece of trim for a project I was working on last year; the costs (at least what he quoted me) was absurd
So much so that I had to pass on his gracious offer as the postage rate was so exorbitant

[Dschonz]

I have a pair of 4343 monitors and recently lost the signal to UHF slot tweeter. The tweeter tests good. I thought it was a crossover issue, but when I turn the famous rotary switch to biamp, there is still no signal to the UHF. Any ideas? I will bypass the UHF attenuator next.

I am using 2235H for LF, re-coned 2121 for mid, the 2420 and 2405 are original. The bass is a bit loose and muddy and the midrange sounds quite veiled. I've tried 2122 and other mids with no improvement. Any suggestions would be welcome? And yes, the rotary switches look bad!

[Riley Casey]

When you say the tweeter tests good do you mean it passes signal or just shows continuity? Oxidation on the rotary bi-amp switch would affect more than just the super tweeter, it separates the woofer from all three upper range drivers and their crossover components. It might be a bad spot on the attenuator. The only fail mode in the crossover components would be an open capacitor, not impossible just a very rare occurrence. If you don't plan to bi-amp the speakers its best to jumper past the switch, if you do bi-amp the speakers its also good to jumper out the switch, the switch was a bad idea.

I have a pair of 4343 monitors and recently lost the signal to UHF slot tweeter. The tweeter tests good. I thought it was a crossover issue, but when I turn the famous rotary switch to biamp, there is still no signal to the UHF. Any ideas? I will bypass the UHF attenuator next.

I am using 2235H for LF, re-coned 2121 for mid, the 2420 and 2405 are original. The bass is a bit loose and muddy and the midrange sounds quite veiled. I've tried 2122 and other mids with no improvement. Any suggestions would be welcome? And yes, the rotary switches look bad!

[HCSGuy]

If it is just the UHF that is out, as Riley Casey said, it’s not the crappy rotary switch on the back of the speaker. However, it is highly likely you have an oxidized spot on the UHF potentiometer. When the speaker is playing, and you rotate the level adjustments on the front panel for each of the Midrange, HF, and UHF drivers, does the sound cut in and out, or is there smooth attenuation? My project for the last two weeks have been getting 43xx monitors out of storage and ready for listening, and I found problems with all of them, mainly scratchy pots, though there was an open capacitor on one of them causing no output from one driver. If you are still using the original crossovers, an open cap is definitely a possibility, but I’d clean the pot first.

Here’s how I did it. Get a can of De-oxit, a flashlight, and a small handheld mirror. Pull the woofer from the speaker, also the 2121, and the acoustic lens off the front of the speaker. Put a utility table (not a fancy dining room table with a center pedestal leg) against a wall so it wont move, then put a few thick towels or blankets on the table. Put the speaker face maybe a foot back from the table, facing the table, with some of the padding between it and the table, and maybe another foot of padding hanging down past the table edge. Then, lean the speaker forward against the table, and pick up the back of the speaker and shove it up onto the table, face down, but leave the woofer hole hanging off the edge of the table. Now you can sit under the speaker, use the mirror and flashlight to see the back of the potentiometers, and when you spray the De-oxit into the back vents on the pots, it will dribble down onto the contacts, instead of just out of the case. I try to give each pot two sprays in different holes, about 1sec spray each, then tip the speaker up and work the pots all the way back and forth about 5 times, then give each one one more shot, and rotate them again. I had pots that were completely dead and now work fine. Out of the 18 pots I’ve done this week, only one still has a spot where it mutes, but it’s all the way up, where I won’t use the pot. BTW, since you’re in there, clean all the pots. Also, De-oxit is not good for you, so make sure you ventilate the room. If the driver still doesn’t output at any level position, you’re going to have to crack open the crossover and test caps.

Btw, I am not keeping any of my 43xx monitors, but if I was, I would buy/build new crossovers for them - I’ve listened to all the drivers in a 4343 in project speakers with active crossovers for testing, and they are capable of much better sound than what I’m getting with the stock crossovers.

Good luck

[Dschonz]

Thx for the tips. The UHF pot is good and 2405 is still out when I bypass the UHF attenuator. Like you, I'm left concluding that it's a bad cap in the crossover, since after figuring out the rotary switch function, concluded a bad rotary contact would also take out the horn (as you pointed out). I few years ago, I would have jumped into a restoration project. But not now! I'm downsizing and am going to sell the 4343s and my 4350s but want to be honest with the buyer about the issue.
Thanks again.

If it is just the UHF that is out, as Riley Casey said, it’s not the crappy rotary switch on the back of the speaker. However, it is highly likely you have an oxidized spot on the UHF potentiometer. When the speaker is playing, and you rotate the level adjustments on the front panel for each of the Midrange, HF, and UHF drivers, does the sound cut in and out, or is there smooth attenuation? My project for the last two weeks have been getting 43xx monitors out of storage and ready for listening, and I found problems with all of them, mainly scratchy pots, though there was an open capacitor on one of them causing no output from one driver. If you are still using the original crossovers, an open cap is definitely a possibility, but I’d clean the pot first.

Here’s how I did it. Get a can of De-oxit, a flashlight, and a small handheld mirror. Pull the woofer from the speaker, also the 2121, and the acoustic lens off the front of the speaker. Put a utility table (not a fancy dining room table with a center pedestal leg) against a wall so it wont move, then put a few thick towels or blankets on the table. Put the speaker face maybe a foot back from the table, facing the table, with some of the padding between it and the table, and maybe another foot of padding hanging down past the table edge. Then, lean the speaker forward against the table, and pick up the back of the speaker and shove it up onto the table, face down, but leave the woofer hole hanging off the edge of the table. Now you can sit under the speaker, use the mirror and flashlight to see the back of the potentiometers, and when you spray the De-oxit into the back vents on the pots, it will dribble down onto the contacts, instead of just out of the case. I try to give each pot two sprays in different holes, about 1sec spray each, then tip the speaker up and work the pots all the way back and forth about 5 times, then give each one one more shot, and rotate them again. I had pots that were completely dead and now work fine. Out of the 18 pots I’ve done this week, only one still has a spot where it mutes, but it’s all the way up, where I won’t use the pot. BTW, since you’re in there, clean all the pots. Also, De-oxit is not good for you, so make sure you ventilate the room. If the driver still doesn’t output at any level position, you’re going to have to crack open the crossover and test caps.

Btw, I am not keeping any of my 43xx monitors, but if I was, I would buy/build new crossovers for them - I’ve listened to all the drivers in a 4343 in project speakers with active crossovers for testing, and they are capable of much better sound than what I’m getting with the stock crossovers.

Good luck

[Goldjazz]

Hope you figured out the UHF issue. I once realised there was no UHF in one of my 4343's. Thought i blew the tweeter but when i looked inside it was a simple problem: i had inserted one of the wires to the tweeter a little too deep into the spring terminal and it was biting down on the insulation and not the exposed wire, hence no connection.