SR pros on this forum

[JuniorJBL]

I'm no SR Pro but Doug says the 2242H's are flown in large multiples to gain mutual coupling. Just two might not do what you think they ought to do. I would imagine just two would like some boundary reinforcement. Otherwise you might end up EQ'ing the crap out of them and blowing them up. Maybe stick them real close together and fire them in an arc.

I think I would like to design a pair of boxes that would hold 2 2242's each. That way if 2 is not enough then I could build and add the second box to the array.The only problem I can See would be the design itself.
The wedge of the loft is 1' at the bottom 3' at the top by 4' tall. but the opening is only 3' tall. It is about 10' wide up there
Any design recommendations. Horn loaded maybe?:dont-know

[JuniorJBL]

Srx728s sub. With a Crown XLS 5000

http://www.crownaudio.com/amp_htm/xls.htm#specs

[JuniorJBL]

I would like to talk about front fill.
The first 2-3 row's of pews are not covered by the 3115's because of the overhang of the speaker loft.

I would like to place 6 near field speakers to fill the void. I was thinking JBL MS26's. Or should I build cabs to place 2 for all 3 "sides" of the stage?

[Earl K]

Hi,

I would like to place 6 near field speakers to fill the void. I was thinking JBL MS26's. Or should I build cabs to place 2 for all 3 "sides" of the stage?

- Buy a twin 6" front-fill type speaker that uses a small compression driver ( ie; avoid buying any product that uses a HiFi tweeter on a shallow wavequide like the MS26 does ).
- The JBL 2407 or 2408 compression drivers are a perfect fit for this front fill application .
- JBL markets small 6" by 6" waveguides ( & are very inexpensive ) / ask Zilch for particulars.

- Now that you're bringing fill speakers to the front / keep the subs on the floor . Find a reasonable & out of the way place / if they offend by muddying the sound then stick a "fill speaker" on top of each ( & balance to taste ) .

- FWIW & IMO, flying subs in a church environment is a bad idea if they don't get the benefit of some extra loading from a wall/roof intersection ( as in; flown in plain view & painted to match the decor ) .

- If you put the subs in the existing soffit, I see that only resulting in an ongoing major headache for all concerned ( especially if you turn them up to make up for any loss from "on-floor loading" ).
- Also, that overhead soffit appears to my eyes to be far from being a "rattle-free" zone". It'll require a lot of strengthening and damping to make it a sub friendly environment / not just a "rattle-trap" that worries the devoted ( mostly thinking about falling vanity panels ) .

>< cheers

[Mike Caldwell]

Front fills do not necessarily need to be fed with the full mix that going to the mains and should be high pass filtered around 125hz/150hz. If your mixer has an unused post fade aux you can create a mix just for the fills, with just vocal and maybe some lighter instruments. If your mixer has a matrix mix feature you could do some what the same thing by building a fill mix from the subgroups.

Where are you planning on putting the fills, if there on the front lip of the stage judging from the picture and the apparent stage height the front row may be the only ones getting much benefit from them.

Mike Caldwell

[JuniorJBL]

Hi,


- Buy a twin 6" front-fill type speaker that uses a small compression driver ( ie; avoid buying any product that uses a HiFi tweeter on a shallow wavequide like the MS26 does ).
- The JBL 2407 or 2408 comprssion drivers are a perfect fit for this front fill application .
- JBL markets small 6" by 6" waveguides ( & are very inexpensive ) / ask Zilch for particulars.

- Now that you're bringing fill speakers to the front / keep the subs on the floor . Find a reasonable & out of the way place / if they offend by muddying the sound then stick a "fill speaker" on top of each ( & balance to taste ) .

- FWIW & IMO, flying subs in a church environment is a bad idea if they don't get the benefit of some extra loading from a wall/roof intersection ( as in; flown in plain view & painted to match the decor ) .

- If you put the subs in the existing soffit, I see that only resulting in an ongoing major headache for all concerned ( especially if you turn them up to make up for any loss from "on-floor loading" ).
- Also, that overhead soffit appears to my eyes to be far from being a "rattle-free" zone". It'll require a lot of strengthening and damping to make it a sub friendly environment / not just a "rattle-trap" that worries the devoted ( mostly thinking about falling vanity panels ) .

>< cheers

Thanks for your input Earl! I will find a different speaker or make some for the fill's (maybe the ac26's?)
http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/suppor...e=3&docid=1082

I was thinking about that space being a rattle trap and was going to put somewhat of a box (made from some plywood) up there with insulation and what not. I was hopeing to get a little boundry effect out of that as well. But your suggestion is way eiaser!!

[JuniorJBL]

Front fills do not necessarily need to be fed with the full mix that going to the mains and should be high pass filtered around 125hz/150hz. If your mixer has an unused post fade aux you can create a mix just for the fills, with just vocal and maybe some lighter instruments. If your mixer has a matrix mix feature you could do some what the same thing by building a fill mix from the subgroups.

Where are you planning on putting the fills, if there on the front lip of the stage judging from the picture and the apparent stage height the front row may be the only ones getting much benefit from them.

Mike Caldwell

Thanks Mike for that as well!!

I will check out what the console can do. It would surprise me if it could not do it. btw it is a Yamaha M7CL-48.

I was planning on putting the fills on the front of the stage maybe on about a 1' pole on each corner. The stage is 2' tall and the backs of the pews are 28". I may not be able to put them on poles either because people might not like them. Even if the front row is the only beneficiary it will be better then it is now. With the repositioning of the mains the 3rd & 2nd row is much better then it used to be!!

[Earl K]

- The JBL series that I would recommend ( for your front fill ) is from Installed Sound . It's called AE Compact.
- I'm torn between recommending ( without hearing them first ) either the AC26 or the AC18.
- I'm partial to single eights & am more familiar with the 2408h driver / whereas the 2414H driver in the AC26 is a complete unknown to me .
- Start with 4 units and see if that is enough .

>< cheers

[JuniorJBL]

Thanks Earl for the info.
Maybe they would have some instock at Listenup here in Denver so I could take a listen.
Maybe some other forum members have heard or know something more about these as well.

[Zilch]

The problem with AE Compact is cost, of course.

You can make these little EconoWaves for peanuts (the 6" square 90° x 90° waveguide is $6,) though I'd probably be using some woofer other than 116H for SR.

The 8" 90° x 50° PT waveguide might be a better choice ($14,) and there is also a 120° x 50° variant of that one for $12.

The 1.5" throat version used in VP compact is mighty nice ($100 ea.,) also, but I don't have a "cookbook" passive crossover for that one. I run BMS 4555 active on those.

http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/suppor...pe=3&docid=776

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/VP%...P7210-95DP.pdf

[JuniorJBL]

They are a bit pricey. Zilch I would be interested in designing a system that could be used in this application. I would like to use passive crossovers for these as well so as to not have to buy more amps. What and how do recommend

[JuniorJBL]

Dost' thine eyes deceiveth me or dost thou shpekers levitate

[Earl K]

They are a bit pricey. Zilch I would be interested in designing a system that could be used in this application. I would like to use passive crossovers for these as well so as to not have to buy more amps. What and how do recommend

What's a "bit pricey" actually translate into ?

- I know that the waveguides, the compression drivers and the same textured paint are all available . The "ts parameters" for the 228H woofer have been published / though the 228H itself isn't yet listed ( at this time ) as being available from the JBL parts list ( this could change when the next updated "parts-list" comes out ) .
- Pro quality 8" midbass woofers are certainly available for substitution . But even with one of these choices ( in hand ) , the DIYer is still left well short of the sort of finished product which JBL offers here .

Is the price differential that great to warrant a DIY effort ?

>< cheers

[grumpy]

Dost' thine eyes deceiveth me or dost thou shpekers levitate

Special thick white Velcro to accommodate the 2g tipover test.

[JuniorJBL]

What's a "bit pricey" actually translate into ?

$700 ea X6 =$4200

- I know that the waveguides, the compression drivers and the same textured paint are all available . The "ts parameters" for the 282H woofer are published though the 282H isn't listed ( at this time ) as being available from the parts list .
- Pro quality 8" woofers are certainly available for substitution . But even with one of those ( in hand ) , the DIYer is still left well short of the sort of finished product which JBL offers here .

Is the price differential that great to warrant a DIY effort ?

>< cheers

I am still trying to determine if that would be the case.