Sunfire Woofer!

[Steve Gonzales]

Hey Fella's, look what ol' Bobby Carver uses for woofers. Sunfire:

[mikebake]

They don't sound good.

[JuniorJBL]

I call them "one note wonders"

[louped garouv]

I call them "one note wonders"

how funny -- small world huh Junior...... It was nice to meet you.

[briang]

That's a pretty beefy motor on that driver.

I wonder how the woofer would sound/perform in a properly designed/engineered sealed or vented box, instead of the teeny-tiny box with two passive radiators Carver now uses.

Of course the size of the current sunfire sub is due to the design requirements for the Subwoofer which were derrived from the customer requirements; that the subwoofer be impossibly small and have substantial output (note sound quality was NOT one of the customer requirements).

[JuniorJBL]

how funny -- small world huh Junior...... It was nice to meet you.

Yeah It was good to meet you as well I had a good time!!

[toddalin]

That's a pretty beefy motor on that driver.

I wonder how the woofer would sound/perform in a properly designed/engineered sealed or vented box, instead of the teeny-tiny box with two passive radiators Carver now uses.

Of course the size of the current sunfire sub is due to the design requirements for the Subwoofer which were derrived from the customer requirements; that the subwoofer be impossibly small and have substantial output (note sound quality was NOT one of the customer requirements).

One passive radiator.

We have a Sunfire Signiture and love it. The trick is to cross it over very low, like 40 hz or less. It easily does well over 105 dB at the seating position at <18 Hz. (I can put an 18 Hz sine wave into it and watch it dance on the floor.) Neither my 2235s nor W15GTI can touch it for really DEEP bass. The one cubic foot cabinet EASILY keeps up with my three 2235s, a W15GTI, and four Cerwin Vega 10" woofers (used in surrounds). Would not suprise me at all if a 2245 in an 8 cubic foot cabinet wouldn't go as low.

Because there is really little musical content between 18 and 32 Hz, these things are great for sonic impact on movies. The military actually uses them in their helicopter simulators. At times, the low bass can be so strong, that I can feel my guts tighten up.

They also have a fantastic warrantee. They send you a shipping box (no charge) and fix whatever is wrong with it for $180 including return shipping. I bought mine used and the woofer had delaminated. I sent it in and they replaced the woofer but also replaced the entire amplifier with the newer design. The old design grounded the panel through the volume control nut and as the nut would vibrate or corrode, you would pick up a hum until you tightened it. The new design alleviates this.

Also has an extremely high WAF.

[Audiobeer]

Fot the size and cost they do a great job for Home theater. It sits out of view. I had a Triad Gold and a Atlantic technoligy 350 and for Home theater I'll go with the little cube in my room out of sight. I don't have the sunfire but a Bob Carver D12 same thing......different name.

[chad]

toddalin,

Thanks for setting the record straight and for the picture.

I have experienced the sunfire sub in my home and it is a powerful, useful tool. Regardless of what "JBL Nazis" here have to say.

[briang]

One passive radiator.

Whoops! I was thinking of Paradigm's Seismic series.

Thanks for the correction.

[Steve Gonzales]

toddalin,

Thanks for setting the record straight and for the picture.

I have experienced the sunfire sub in my home and it is a powerful, useful tool. Regardless of what "JBL Nazis" here have to say.

Thanks for the comments Fella's, both pro and con. My purpose for posting the pic's was purely for fun. I have to say that since the subject has been broached, I'll post my two cents in regards to a Sunfire being a "One note wonder". First, the well regarded reviewer, Julian Hirsh (sp?) said that the Sunfire sub produced the deepest, most powerful bass he'd ever measured. Furthermore, he said that this sub integrated well with the mains in a music system. Now, opinions are like a**holes, everybodys got one, and most of them stink , so, I take them with a grain of salt, as I'm sure is true for my own. I will say, IMO +IME, that during my HT installer days, we tackled the problem of sub placement with SPL meters and ALOT of playing around with it's room placement, and sometimes with an outboard, single bandwidth parametric E.Q. Harman's own Infinity subs use this, it's called R.A.B.O.S.. . Another member expressed his displeasure ( in another thread) with the generic use of the term subwoofer and I agree completely. IMO, a true subwoofer will play from about 60hz-40hz on down, hence the term sub-woofer. The room plays a big part in what it will act like. Room resonance peaks will make any sub a "one note wonder" if you don't take extra time/care to tame it properly. Now, I'm not here to hype Bobby's thing-a-ma-jigger, but I do want to give it a fair shake (pun intended). Thanks again, Steve G.

[louped garouv]

generic use of the term subwoofer and I agree completely. IMO, a true subwoofer will play from about 60hz-40hz on down, hence the term sub-woofer.

i don't know what to think about this statement... (and to be sure, i am a novice (with a lower case 'n'))

and I from what i have read, it is generally accepted that the subwoofer xover point is supposed to be somewhere around 80Hz IIRC, right?

but to me, if a "mad scientist" installer/hobbist feels that for his particular use 100Hz xover is 'better' for him and what he wants to do (maybe to add some kick), and his box goes down to 35Hz or lower, its still a subwoofer

i need to figure the 'cheapest bestest' box design for 100Hz down to 25Hz

[Steve Gonzales]

i don't know what to think about this statement... (and to be sure, i am a novice (with a lower case 'n'))

and I from what i have read, it is generally accepted that the subwoofer xover point is supposed to be somewhere around 80Hz IIRC, right?

but to me, if a "mad scientist" installer/hobbist feels that for his particular use 100Hz xover is 'better' for him and what he wants to do (maybe to add some kick), and his box goes down to 35Hz or lower, its still a subwoofer

i need to figure the 'cheapest bestest' box design for 100Hz down to 25Hz

Cool LG,

JBL's own B460 and B380's use the BX63 and it's x-over is 63hz. The 100/80hz points are the highest generally accepted frequencies that are 'non-directional', meaning, you shouldn't be able to localize them in the room. The x-over point is based on personal listening tests, the sub's 'duty' (HT/Music) and most importantly, the main's LF output ability. If you've got a suite of small bookshelf speakers in an HT setup that have a usable LF output down to 70-100hz, then of course the sub will have to make up for them. But if you have some L250ti's that have AWESOME LF output down to the mid 20hz to 30hz, then you cross (your B460/B380) at alot lower frequency, JBL says 63hz and who am I to argue. My HT mains have a good usable output down to 40hz, so I've found my x-over point is best at about 50hz ( there are other factors too). These are just general observations and not intended to be the 'end all' of the discussion. Thank you for your input, Steve G.

[JuniorJBL]

The only reason I said "one note wonder" is because they (for me) never blended very well with other speakers.
With that said They are powerful. I have had 4 Juniors and 2 True subs (10" version) one set up was on my computer with my LSR25P's and 2 junior sub's. It would attain VERY high SPL at my seating position (124db to be exact) but the sound was always muddy. Same goes for my home setup. I am not saying that if you like them to not use them.
What my opinion about them is: very non musical but for movie impact they work well. But my 2 2242's and 2 sub1500's for movies can make my screen flutter beyond any watch ability and have tremendous impact.

Remember this is ONLY my working knowledge of these products and what I say can be taken with a grain of salt.

[Steve Gonzales]

The only reason I said "one note wonder" is because they (for me) never blended very well with other speakers.
With that said They are powerful. I have had 4 Juniors and 2 True subs (10" version) one set up was on my computer with my LSR25P's and 2 junior sub's. It would attain VERY high SPL at my seating position (124db to be exact) but the sound was always muddy. Same goes for my home setup. I am not saying that if you like them to not use them.
What my opinion about them is: very non musical but for movie impact they work well. But my 2 2242's and 2 sub1500's for movies can make my screen flutter beyond any watch ability and have tremendous impact.

Remember this is ONLY my working knowledge of these products and what I say can be taken with a grain of salt.

I hear ya, and appreciate your point and opinion. I'd love to hear those 2242's and 2 sub 1500's . Take that Bobby C. !!