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Thread: 4320 Project

  1. #31
    norealtalent
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    I agree with Zilch on the 2215's vs 2235's. 2235's will have so much more bottom than the 2215's that you'll think you have 4 speakers. Also, 2231/2235 is the woofer that the 3133x is designed to work with.

  2. #32
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames
    My speakers currently have 2215A Woofers - which I gather are not rebuildable in their current form. Would it be reasonable to buy a pair of 2220A woofers to have as spares for the sad day when mine go flat?
    Regardless of the 2235/2215A debate, the 2215A is quite repairable and is essentially an 8 ohm impedance version of the venerable LE15A (The LE15A is a 10-12 ohm driver whether it is labeled 8 or 16).

    The the 2215 has different sound than the 2235, but you may prefer it to the 2235... the 2235 definitely has deeper bass.

    Definitely stay away from the 2220 as it is really only a high efficiency design that is best in PA applications... it can be used to great effect in a home environment with a lot of coaxing and additional bass drivers or horn loading.


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  3. #33
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave
    I would think that on their sides would be best because that is the position in which the one tweeter will be lowest. That 2405 tweeter has a fairly narrow vertical dispersion (16kHz is 6 dB down at 15 degrees off axis). It would be worthwhile to cut another tweeter mounting hole in one of the cabinets on the opposite side of the midhorn so that you can have true mirror imaging in the horizontal orientation with the tweeters lowest, and experiment with turning the fins on the midhorn so they angle up and diffract down into the listening area.
    David
    Maybe sometime later I can pull the left cabinet down off the shelves, bore an asymetrical mounting hole for the slot and move it to the other side of the horn outlet (tho I s'pose I'll have to move the Lpads in that box to do so ...). Meanwhile, I have been able to rotate the 2405 Slots 90 degrees, and I made some shims to allow me to rotate the lenses for the horns 90 degrees, and stand proud of the woofer.

    Quote Originally Posted by norealtalent
    I agree with Zilch on the 2215's vs 2235's. 2235's will have so much more bottom than the 2215's that you'll think you have 4 speakers. Also, 2231/2235 is the woofer that the 3133x is designed to work with.
    I'll have to keep my eyes open for a pair of them - thanks to everyone who's helped me get this far! ..
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Woofer's Avatar
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    Better late than never, but God, I luv this place.....

    I've been reading everyone's comments about 2215A's and 2420's and 4320 Monitors and I just can't beieve the wealth of information available here.
    Some of you guys really are so 'over the top' impressive to say the least.
    I have a very old pair of 2215A's which I've recently re-foamed and I just love them to death. Granted they're mounted in a pair of 4530 'Scoop/J Bins', powered by a Phase Linear Claire Bros. 700, so there's definitely no shortage of bass there. (Just ask my neighbours). To top them off, I run a pair of vintage 1217-1290 Horns (Potato-Mashers/Tea-strainers/Perforated Plates: call 'em what you will), fitted with a pair of 24??. Actually I think they're JBL 2420 with JBL 2470 backs but fitted with aftermarket 16 ohm diaphragms and powered by a Crown D75. (howzat for a Frankenstein version of a JBL Driver - huh? I figure the 2420 and 2470 are the same magnet wise 'cept for the foil badges. Please correct me if I'm wrong.) Although for now, they sound great, but I'm wondering how much better they'd sound with the ever so much dearer correct JBL replacements. (which are just way too expensive here in Australia, that one can only dream of getting original ones). I've been using a Crown VFX2 Active Crossover set at anything between 800Hz and 1K2, depending on what I'm listening to, but was also wondering if I'd be better off using the original 3110 Passive crossover? As well as all the prementioned stuff, I do have a pair of old 077 Slots but alas, I can't hook them up as yet due to my 3105 Crossovers being in desperate need of replacement L-pads. If someone has a spare pair of L-Pads then please let me know, as the cost of replacements here from a local JBL distributor, would be enough to pay for my next months rent! (The disadvantages of living and sourcing stuff in Australia is almost enough to drive one to suicide.)
    All in all, being an old Rock'n'Roll sound guy, it's pretty exciting listening to, but my listening habits are changing, and I think it's time to change boxes for something along the lines of a 4320 or a 4333 type of box. I've found the plans for the 4333A onsite, but I'm afraid my 2215A's may not be suitable for those. I've looked but I'm unable to find plans for the 4320 box, and if they do exist here, could someone be kind enough to point me in the right direction please? I have a rough idea of the size of the box, but I can't find the dimensions for the TWO ports as opposed to the single one in the 4333. At least in the meantime, until I get the rest together, I do have a pair of 4301BE's which are really such an underated little speaker. Honestly, everytime I listen to them, I just can't stop being amazed. Pure joy.
    Sorry for being so long winded, but hopefully someone is still monitoring this thread and can help me out.
    If I've sinned by posting in the wrong thread, please don't be too unkind.
    Cheers all,
    Woofer.

  5. #35
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    4320 Move onward

    I've pulled a few quotes from a thread on hissing tweaters as I partially sidetracked it, and thought the biAmping 4320s thread should go here ...

    Quote Originally Posted by hjames
    So If I was to biAmp or triAamp my 4320s, I gather I could take the existing output of my preamp, run it into a crossover (folks told me it had to be an active crossover, not the "speaker crossovers" I built and installed within the speaker cabs) then feed their output to discreet amps for each driver?

    So the D75 (est 40w/ch) would be a good approach to feed the slots?
    What about the 2420 Horns - should I find a D-150
    What about the 2215s - something like a DC-300?

    I'm just feeding the whole thing currently with a 110/ch JVC high end A/V receiver now, but I believe I can pull the front channel preamp outs to feed external gear.
    Quote Originally Posted by scott fitlin
    Yep, that combination in that order will work.

    As Widget stated, you really need a dedicated active electronic crossover.

    There is a good place for GOOD electronic crossovers, available in kit form, reasonable prices, to very expensive prices. I recommend an XM-44, youll have to decide your crossover points, and is available with 6,12,18,24 or 48 db slopes.
    www.marchandelec.com.
    Ouch, those 3 way Marchand's are a bit pricey for my blood!

    I may have to settle for biamping instead of triamping anyway - can I actually do that? Use the active crossover to ..say ...split the mid and highs off to the D-75 amp to feed the mid-high part of my existing crossover, and run the woofers on the DC-300?
    Or should I feed the bass and mids from the DC-300 and save the D-75 for just the slots (2405) -
    I know they are rated for lower power ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rudy Kleimann
    I second that recommendation on the Marchand kits. Was thinking of the same, but had a case of 'sometimers' with names while posting Saturday.

    Of course, you could buy a Rane or Ashly used. Just make sure it's a recent design 24dB/octave Ashly and not one of the old ones, which in my experience didn't sound too good. Both brands sound great, and customer support is very good. The Ranes are more plentiful and less expensive, and I like the delay (driver alignment) function and CD EQ capability of the Rane models. ... My neighbor and I both use Ranes in our Audiophile systems with no disappointments in their sound quality.

    Same for the little Crowns. I've used one of a pair of Crown Power Line Two amps for years to drive my HT surrounds, and though they're a little more powerful than a D-75, they wouldn't actually be overkill for the UHF as long as something crazy doesn't happen. I'll probably be using another one for my triamp project next year, pushing 2405's or similar. Use what you got... Truth is, he probably could do with 20 watts RMS if he has a smaller amp laying around. Try it out and see how it sounds.
    I know its not in the same class, but it looks like one of the Rane Active Crossovers might be a way to get my foot in the door at least. If I get a two way or a three way Rane I can at least get a feel for this dedicated bandpass amp. Besides - according to common wisdom, I still need to get some 2235 Woofers to get that deeper bass ...

    Quote Originally Posted by norealtalent
    I agree with Zilch on the 2215's vs 2235's. 2235's will have so much more bottom than the 2215's that you'll think you have 4 speakers. Also, 2231/2235 is the woofer that the 3133x is designed to work with.
    About the marchands ... my philosophy on sound has always been that I have to be able to hear the difference an upgrade makes or I don't really need to spend the money. I appreciate all I am learning from the pros here, but my ears aren't as young as they once were, and there are so many places to spend money that I just can't put it all into the sound ...
    I'm doing this to enjoy the music ...
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  6. #36
    Tom Loizeaux
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    4320s

    I rehabed a pair of 4320s (see avatar) using the original drivers which included 2215s. I used the 3106 on the slots but bi-amped the woofer and horn at 1.2K. I bought a JBL Urei 6260 and 6230 power amp, as well as a 5235 crossover off of eBay.
    With not that much money I was able to get these 4320s to sound better then they should. It requires patience and a bit of work.

    Tom
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  7. #37
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    Comments wanted on HK Citation 22

    Just got a "basket case" Harmon-Kardon Citation 22 that needs repairs.
    I got a good deal on it - not too much money into it so far.
    Anyway - I'm wondering what folks think of this amp from 1987-91 ?

    I've heard good things about the classic HK amps, this one is rated 200w/Ch into 8 ohms, so I'm hoping for good things if I use it to run my 4320s

    One plan - I have a 5235 on the way from Ian, and have already gotten a Crown D75 (for the 2405 slots) so the Citation 22 would have plenty of headroom to run just the woofers and horns if/when I biAmp.

    Comments?
    Things to look out for?
    I've learned a lot here already - your feedback is always welcomed!
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  8. #38
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjames
    Just got a "basket case" Harmon-Kardon Citation 22 that needs repairs.
    I got a good deal on it - not too much money into it so far.
    Anyway - I'm wondering what folks think of this amp from 1987-91 ?
    The Citation 22 is one of Giskard's favorite amps.

    David

  9. #39
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave
    The Citation 22 is one of Giskard's favorite amps.
    That's what I was thinking too... then I Googled it. The 22 is fairly pedestrian... it was the XX that he has praised so much... and it does appear to be quite special.

    http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...6&postcount=14

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  10. #40
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    He praised the 22 regularly and often recommended it at the prices it usually sold for on ebay.

    He was rhapsodic about the XX and said that he must have been a little out of his mind the day he sold his. They are quite rare.

    David

  11. #41
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    I have always confused simply praise with rhapsodic posts...


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  12. #42
    Dang. Amateur speakerdave's Avatar
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    Geez! Now we're doing Giskard lore. Cripes!

  13. #43
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speakerdave
    Geez! Now we're doing Giskard lore. Cripes!
    Even more Giskard lore - I just bought a pair of 2123s .... based on GT and Giskard's comments in the 4345 thread. Now I have to figure how to work them into my systems - or grow my systems to allow using them! Or hire Riessen to build some boxes (4344s?) - tho the shipping would no doubt break me!
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  14. #44
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    Next stage.
    Okay - the 2123 midBass speakers I got off ebay arrived today - they sound nice! Over the weekend I got a pair of JBL 2800 speakers (2 ways) - I figured I can use them as external donor cabinets for the midBass drivers, set them on top of my 4320s and begin a build process towards 4343/44 nirvana.

    The cabinets are 22.5 x 11 x 9.5, a bit larger, but seem close to the size of the midbass "doghouse" used in 4343 cabinets (15 x 11.25 x 7, ballpark). Its a shame to gut perfectly working speakers, but they are cheaper models and all I really need are the boxes. Once I empty the cabinets of the old parts, I'll zilch-plug the port,
    (is "zilch-plug" really a verb - or do you just "zilch" the port?) ... open the 8" woofer hole up to accept the 10" mid-woofer, and make a gasket (cork? motorcycle innertube?) to seal the midBass to the baffleboard.

    Next step is rebuild my Giskard-type 3133 type crossovers for 4 way use ...

    Once I have them working as working class version of the 4 ways, I can look into biamping them. I got a 5235 from Ian, and got a D75 from ePay, but I'm still waiting to hear back from the audio shop on the estimate for that Citation 22 I got last month ...
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  15. #45
    Moderator hjames's Avatar
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    Read some reviews, went out and bought a router yesterday. From all I've read here I figured I'd need one to make the speaker mounting holes - I also thought out how to make a pair of "skids" that would (safely) ride around the front molding of the donor JBL2800 boxes, and allow me to cut the existing woofer hole larger, and make an indented shoulder for the speaker rims. It was below 40 last night but by mid-day it got a bit warmer, today so I set the shopmate up out back and took a shot at it. No garage or workshop, but at least the box-work is done before winter ...

    Brought the boxes in and mounted the 2123s into the boxes ... not too bad! The funny "tweeters" in the bottom picture are the 2" zilch-plugs, 2 per box (one for the port, one fills the tweeter hole) .

    'Course I can't DO anything with them yet until I rebuild the crossovers to 4344/45 spec ... back to Ian's upgrade threads for that!
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