Page 4 of 29 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 427

Thread: Quick & Dirty 4430-Inspired Two-Ways Part II

  1. #46
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    9,963
    Way COOL, John.


    That's certainly IT!

    First ones I build're gonna get my 15" E140/2235H hybrids in 'em.

    [Can't wait now. Nope, nope.... ]

  2. #47
    RIP 2009
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Rohnert Park, CA
    Posts
    3,785
    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    First ones I build're gonna get my 15" E140/2235H hybrids in 'em.
    Which horn are you planning on, at least for design purposes? I'll see if I can come up with a 3D version, though if it's got very many complex curves it'll like be simplified for the drawing...

    John

  3. #48
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    9,963
    I'll likely use PT-F 100° x 100°. What you've got there looks like the 60° x 40° version, which is just fine for now. The one we REALLY want is the 90° x 50°, which also looks more like 2332, probably.

    You gonna take a stab at the three-way version for over in the 4628B thread?



    Edit: John's rendering of the 4628B component version is here:

    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...1675#post61675

  4. #49
    RIP 2009
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Rohnert Park, CA
    Posts
    3,785
    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    You gonna take a stab at the three-way version for over in the 4628B thread?
    Yeah - that one looks real interesting! I'd even conceivably put together a pair sometime, (though I've got a lot of other stuff on the burner first...).

    John

  5. #50
    Senior Member Jakob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    311
    Hi!

    I red with great interest about Your network calculations. What software do you use for this? Is there any way to get the response from a certain driver with a certain horn without measuring?

    Thanks: Jakob

  6. #51
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    9,963
    Hi, Jakob.

    I'm using CircuitMaker 6, which is a semi-obsolete schematic capture and circuit simulation program.

    For network design, I'm going to try Xover 3 Pro, which is on order.

    There are no simulation programs for drivers and horns that I'm aware of. WAY too many variables, I'd imagine.

    While it's apparently possible to manage the outcome, actual performance measurement is an essential part of the process, one way or another. Or several ways concurrently, if possible....

  7. #52
    Senior Member stevem's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    280
    Zilch, since we're talking aboiut PT waveguides, has anyone looked at the AM6200/95? This is a HF and MF module that can go on top of a B380 (or any other woofer) and you can make a quick and dirty 3-way. Is this thing suitable for music in a home listening room? The HF is handled by a 2431H, and the MF uses a horn loaded 2250HPL which looks like an 8 inch variant of the 2012H. Pattern is 90x50, and LF crossover is at about 250hz. Any thoughts?

  8. #53
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    9,963
    They are mated separately and integrated with various woofers. B380 should work, too.

    http://www.jblpro.com/ae/pdf/spec_shts/AM6200_95.pdf

    http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/AE%...6200,95-WH.pdf

    http://www.jblpro.com/ae/pdf/App_Data_Sht/AM6200_95.pdf

    http://www.jblpro.com/ae/am6200_95.html



    Actually, this version might be a better choice for home three-way, with 2407 HF:

    http://www.jblpro.com/ae/pdf/spec_shts/AM4200_95.pdf

  9. #54
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    9,963

    Weird:

    Gonna take a bit to figure these out. Right now, I can't tell where anything's coming from. Surely there's an IMAGE in the crossfire there somewhere.

    [Sound GOOD, tho.... ]
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  10. #55
    Senior Member Guido's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    2,503
    Omnidirectional

    Where do you dig out all that stuff ?
    Do you have a JBL Mine ?

  11. #56
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    9,963
    Quote Originally Posted by Guido
    Where do you dig out all that stuff ?
    Do you have a JBL Mine ?
    Those I got on eBay. A pair of 4660's that came out of a church in Modesto, "local pickup only," about 1.5 hour's drive from here.

    Interestingly, they are not the "A" version, but have 2425J's in them, anyway. I've pulled them apart for testing for another thread. Gonna replace the 2225H's in them with a pair of 2226H's I have, to free those up for reconing to 2235H.

    I installed 2426H's on these 2346 horns to try them as Q&D 4430's, using N3134 and B380, and the results are quite good. This leads to thoughts of installing 2235H's in the 6 cu.ft. 4660's, retuning them if required, and playing them horizontal. We'll see. TOO much fun, these!

    I have to read up more of the Everest white paper to understand them better. Alas, the last part of that is missing in the version posted here. Techbot said he intends to get the whole thing posted eventually.

    The sound field is VERY wide, of course. Clearly, they've got to be separated more than I've shown them, and you've got to be between them listening. The auditory cues from the woofers, which are handling much of the midrange in this setup, become ambiguous as you move from side to side. Angling them in (the woofers) at 30° as in Everest is important to reestablishing coherency.

    Once I get these figured out, I think they'll comprise the final iteration of Quick and Dirty 4430's here (unless something else comes along, of course ), and I'll put together a summary of findings. Word is that this thread will self-destruct at 1000 posts. We don't want THAT to happen....

  12. #57
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    9,963
    I must say the performance of these 2346 controlled directivity horns is surprising. I've now mated them with "AM" crossovers using 2426H's, and they play flat on axis (perpendicular) out to 20 kHz (see below). Curiously, on driver "reference axis" (30°), the HF is up 5 dB as expected, but not the VHF. Took me a while to discover that; thought one of the drivers mondo wonky for a bit here. Also, gonna have to tweak these crossovers back down to 800 Hz, probably.

    Still lookin' good, though; I ain't quibblin' over +/- 2.5 dB at this point, and 20 kHz is up. Ideally, VHF should be boosted at 30° for precedence compensation as accomplished with 2405 in Everest (see Techbot recently updated white paper in Tech Ref forum). JBL could apply their newer Progressive Transition technology to making a more reasonable asymmetrical horn to do all of that, no doubt. Is H2600 the only other asymmetric horn? These are beasts.

    [Note to Matthias, et.al.: These are TWO-LAYER beasts; the front "fins" are hollow....]

    The stability of location of the phantom image is their key feature; I've never experienced this before, moving from side to side and having the localized center "stay put." I don't have them widely spaced enough to generate good imaging yet, tho.

    So, I guess I gotta ask, "What happened?" This approach seems to be a natural for HT, not to mention general listening. I see it used in Synthesis (no?), and Everest, of course, but no broader exploitation. Anywhere else? Is there some major drawback I don't appreciate yet, or is it just something folks don't get? Why aren't S2600 and S3100 "hot" products?

    Everest White Paper here: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ead.php?t=5671

    Ancillary 4660 horn and crossover info here: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ead.php?t=5629

    0° top, 30° bottom:
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  13. #58
    RIP 2009
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Rohnert Park, CA
    Posts
    3,785
    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    So, I guess I gotta ask, "What happened?" This approach seems to be a natural for HT, not to mention general listening. I see it used in Synthesis (no?), and Everest, of course, but no broader exploitation. Anywhere else? Is there some major drawback I don't appreciate yet, or is it just something folks don't get? Why aren't S2600 and S3100 "hot" products
    I'm guessing it's esthetics more than anything else. To start with, they're quite large for a home environment, and I believe their shape, (when visible), probably is considered too "far out" by most interior decorators, whether professional or not...

    There's also the fact their placement and setup may be more critical, though I'm not really sure, because of what the design tries to accomplish...

    John

  14. #59
    RIP 2011 Zilch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    9,963

    2430H

    Forum member tomp787 lent us a 2430H for testing to complete evaluation of the 243x "family." Here it is on PT-F 100° x 100° waveguide using biased "AM" crossover (middle) in comparison to 2431H (top) and refurbished 2435HPL (bottom). It sounds fine, though the RTA suggests perhaps not so "bright" as the others. HF extension is there, just not as much as the others. Has slightly more LF than 2431, but 2435 has the most with this crossover.

    CLIO measurement results here, et.seq.:
    http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...3323#post63323

    I do not pretend to hear this order of difference above 10 kHz. My argument: older listeners need as much HF extension as they can get.

    Younger users would likely be quite happy with 2430H; it's cheaper than the others: $249 list vs. $399 and $1399, respectively.

    http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Tra...cer%20List.pdf

    [No, I didn't pay that for 'em....]
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  15. #60
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    9,719
    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    ...older listeners need as much HF extension as they can get.
    Wasn't there another thread that discussed that topic?

    Widget

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Quick & Dirty 4430-Inspired Two-Ways Part I
    By Zilch in forum Lansing Product DIY Forum
    Replies: 449
    Last Post: 03-05-2006, 05:41 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •