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Thread: Quick & Dirty 4430-Inspired Two-Ways Part II

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    Yeah, it ain't enough to do the job, tho.

    As Giskard suggested in the reference Rob cited above, there's easier ways to accomplish what's required.
    - Well, one approach would be to design in a response bump by incorporating a filter section that rings some ( by moving LC elements closer together than a 1 octave pole-spacing, thus producing a higher Q filter compared to the typical Butterworth ) and then combining this LC with traditional resistive padding . One would want to listen to this design approach quite carefully to determine for themselves if the increase in group delay , was acceptable .




  2. #137
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    Preliminary Listening Impressions:

    I've listened to these off and on for two days now. I call them "Mini-Everests" when I have the LE14H-3 woofers angled in the requisite 30°, and "Z3100's" when they're flush.

    It's disconcerting at first: we're used to being able to locate and adjust the image with minor changes in our position relative to the two speakers. Once properly set up, no matter with these. The only way to move the image (which is as expansive as the separation,) is by changing the relative loudness of the left vs. right channels. Otherwise, it just stays put, rock solid.

    If you move in line with one or the other of the speakers, or even slightly beyond, the image stays centered between them. You can turn your back on them and it's still there, same place, same size.

    It's a new listening experience for me, and it took some getting used to. Once I acknowledged what was going on in my head and gave in to it, it became most pleasurable, and there may be no going back. The difference is significant. Just gotta tweak the frequency response now so they play as nice as 4430's and hope I don't mess up the effect in the process. Even as-is, these are keepers.

    Perhaps it's just a cheap trick, but I LIKE it....

  3. #138
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    Heh!

    HEY, who stole 200 Hz?

    They wanna be about 6' - 8' apart.

    Everest instructions tell how to set 'em up.

    [Maybe I should read that....]

    Even the mini-horns look big in this context.

    Not much bass below 40 Hz, 'cause they're about 6' out from the wall.

    I jus' turn on the monster sub next door to make up for it....
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  4. #139
    Senior Member "Duke" Spinner's Avatar
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    wowser ......

  5. #140
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    Gonna be a distinctive cabinet design, for sure.

    I'll start this one with papier-mâché....

    [Think "Mobius."]

  6. #141
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    NL200t3 Revisited:

    Several members are building 4430/4425 hybrid clones incorporating the NL200t3 crossovers described earlier in this thread by former member Giskard.

    John W suggested using a laminate-core inductor in the LF section for a little more gain in the low end from reduced DCR. I thought I'd try it, and bias the HF section at the same time; only one capacitor is involved.

    So, here's the parts list as built (right-click to print), a pic of the crossover itself, the system it's running on (LE14H-3 in Citation 7.4 box, 2426H on 2344A), the RTA curve (I need a damn tripod ), and the schematic (right-click again). Connect the inputs in parallel to run off a single amp, or biamp, as desired.

    Indeed, there seems to be a little bit more drive to the woofer, notwithstanding 200Hz, which fiends have stolen here recently.

    Original version here: http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...852&#post49852

    The days of $70 2342 horns are over, apparently; price was updated to $156 recently.

    I'll post RTA results with 2342 horns and 2418H-1 drivers once they come in. Clone builders might want to consider the $10 PT-F95 waveguide for use with 1" drivers if that price is now too dear. That combination requires a different crossover, tho, i.e., not this one.

    EDIT: Yup, sounds mightily fine --- "Crispy." And I ain't apologizing for LE14H-3 anymore, now that we know the top Project Array uses 'em....

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  7. #142
    Senior Member Lancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    And I ain't apologizing for LE14H-3 anymore, now that we know the top Project Array uses 'em....
    Huh? Which dumbass asked you to apologize for an LE14H-3?

  8. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch

    It's no coincidence, probably, that having tested 5 varieties of LE14's here now, it's the LE14H I like best. Still trying to get reliable data on them with WT2, I've switched to delta-compliance determination of Vas using this Citation 7.4 as the test box.

    The REAL goal is to make a platform in which refoamed LE14A's sound good, since there's SO many of them out there that need good homes. I have a couple of thrashed ones I'm gonna try reconing to LE14H-1, if that'll work. And H-3's too, of course. Be good if they played nice, as well....

    They sound kinda "rubbery."

    [Just KIDDING, gang.]
    So,,, how much of the above quote still holds true after 4 months ?

    --or-- Have you been won-over by the newer black-coned wonders ?



  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl K
    So,,, how much of the above quote still holds true after 4 months ?
    It's ALL still true ('cept the "rubbery" part, of course).

    You can see them right up against the L200's with Giskard's 2235's in them here, so there's a good deal of "A/B" goes on. Let's just say I've got a bit more work to do before they will be indisdinguishable....

    The Z1 box was designed for LE14's of all variety. I chuckled when I saw Project Array makes a substantial deal of "Trapezoid."

    Johnaec (who did the renderings) and I are talking about making several of them to try out. Also, the 2342 horns will fit nicely in the taller Z2 cabinet; we'll see how well they play.

    Right now, I'm scratchin' my head regarding how to package LE14 with S3100 horns in the Everest alignment.

    Fun stuff, this, and LE14, all kinds, continue as major participants, yup....

  10. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer
    Huh? Which dumbass asked you to apologize for an LE14H-3?
    Nearly everybody likes the bigger-boxed 2235's better, is all.

    One forum member is building L200t3 clones with LE14A's. That's a good fit, I figure, and another reason I revisited the crossover.

    I jus' have to work with LE14H-3 a little more to make them sound their best. I'll be watching for more Project Array details, schematics, in particular, with considerable interest.

    Maybe LE14's deserve their own thread more fully exploring the potential. It's clear JBL likes 'em....

  11. #146
    Senior Member Uncle Paul's Avatar
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    NL200t3 Zilchster Improved or N3134?

    Zilch,
    What is your preference between the two for a 4430 clone? Is the N3134 you built worth the extra cost and work? Have your mods to the NL200t3 closed the gap? Inquiring minds want to know!
    "Zobel is as zobel does"

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Paul
    Zilch,
    What is your preference between the two for a 4430 clone? Is the N3134 you built worth the extra cost and work? Have your mods to the NL200t3 closed the gap? Inquiring minds want to know!
    I haven't tried the biased NL200t3 with the B380's yet, but I can tell you they certainly sound good with the LE14H-3 Citations. Biasing that one capacitor seems to have made a major difference in the high end. My originals are out on loan, though, so I can't do a direct comparison. I'll try them with the B380's this weekend for you. I'm gettin' WAY too many "Keepers" here now.

    I'd look at it this way: NL200t3 is an easy startup for DIY 4430's, and inexpensive. It might benefit from a Zobel in the LP taken from N3134 to better match it to 2235H woofers, but the HF compensation is very good. Y'all know I have a particular fondness for the "magic" of N3134. It's gonna be hard to ever get me admit there's any equivalent substitute, particularly after my having gone to the considerable effort of building a "hot rod" pair.

    I'm working on matching the NL200t3 HF section to 16-Ohm LE85. I'm betting that's gonna sweeten the deal considerably. Those old aluminum diaphragms sound smoother to me and seem to have a little bit more HF extension based upon testing here, but I'm not willing to crack the seals on the LE85's for the sake of an impedance match alone. Instead, I'm gonna load my pair of D8R2421's in 2425's for comparision....

  13. #148
    Senior Member Lancer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zilch
    Nearly everybody likes the bigger-boxed 2235's better, is all.
    D'oh!

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancer
    D'oh!
    Hee, hee. We'll get it, eventually....

  15. #150
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    Yeah, well, I certainly understand the fascination with the 2235H so I guess if there are people out there that like it better then good for them.

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