I'm still desperately searching the square 100x100. They seem to be available in the US. One of you guys should check this.Originally Posted by Zilch
JBL Part No. is: 338785-002 / PT-H1010HF
I do not believe there is a big difference between the 2430 and 2431. But I do not know this.
If I can get the Horns I'll buy a 2431 or 2430 and give them a try in my (not finished) 4435.
Anybody have a pair of 2507 horn/driver mount brackets (NLA) sittin' on a shelf out there?
This'd go a bit easier if I didn't have to fabricate mounting schemes for the various combinations here....
Guido: Yeah, the horns are on order here. We'll soon see if they're available to nobodys here in the U.S., even if we DO have an account....
First, the reference. This is 2425H on 2344 horn, no network.
Red on axis, blue @15°, green @30°, purple @45°
Red = on axis
On axis, Red=PH-316, Blue=2344
Hey not bad!
They are not as uniform off axis and the last half octave is a bit down but that's damn close. It is certainly a workable alternative. Nice measurementsHow do they sound can you hear any diferences as you go off axis with program material?? Any noticable diferences on axis??
Rob
Personally I think you are being very generous Rob.
The off axis response is nothing like the 2344. They are "not bad" in the on axis department.. but as we all know the 2344 is a bit too down already in the HF dept. These are lacking even more in that area.
Widget
'Personally I think you are being very generous Rob.'
I can see your point. I guess I am in absolute terms. All depends on how you look at it. If I was looking for a low cost alternative I would at least give them a listen. Just mail order them so you can return them if need be. Beyond the 15 degree mark things are going down hill but toed in on axis they aren't horrible and although they are changing quite a bit they beat the hell out of my Urei Horn in my center channel off axis. The Urei is a fine sounding horn on axis. Off axis it has problems but I don't use it that way and it wasn't designed to be used that way. That's why I asked how it sounded. Pink noise you would hear differences off axis in a heartbeat. Be curious on program material compared to a 2344. Also wonder how close they sound on axis. Measurements aren't the end all. Doesn't mean they don't or can't sound good, besides anyone looking at these measurements will be making their own decisions.
Rob
We kinda knew on inspection that they were not equivalent, because the vertical slot width on PH316 is the full 1-1/2" of the designated driver, whereas 2344A is more like 5/8", i.e., less than the 1" driver exit. I read somewhere this matters.
Clearly, the geometries are different. I'm thinking the PH316 may behave somewhat better with respect to directivity with a 1-1/2" driver on it rather than a 1" driver with throat adapter. We'll see.
Thus far, I've only played program material through this single PH316 with LE85 on it, and not with the 4430 network. It sounded fine, but it was clear there was HF attenuation off-axis, as the tests confirm. When the other horn gets here from TimG (who's also running tests on it,) along with his 8-ohm 2427 drivers, I'll be able to hook them all up and give the system a reasonable listen.
In the meantime, I'm trying 2426J's on 2370A horns with 3110A networks, which also have HF boost. If I recall correctly, I'll have to pad the whole works down to balance with the 2235's in the B380's. I did this combo once before in Olympus; gotta look up how much I had to throttle them to get reasonable balance. Maybe I get smart and use some 30W L-pads this time, like Giskard suggests.
This'll also be the first opportunity to try the M552's CD horn pre-emphasis on for size. [Note to self: Amps are last on and first off, stoopid....]
"This'll also be the first opportunity to try the M552's CD horn pre-emphasis on for size."
Tried that and the 4430 is better. Too much roll off actual a good bit more than the PH316 on axis with the 4430 network.
"[Note to self: Amps are last on and first off, stoopid....]"
Your not kidding! The on/off is not the soft and if you forget you will be cringing. I did once damn near jumped out of my skin!!
Rob
Take a look at the directivity and off axis response curves on the Urei 813 and 4330 monitor that just used the 2308 lense to set the off axis response. You can see why I think the PH316 horn is better off axis than the Urei. There is a rather obvious mistake the 4430 and 813 plots are misslabled. Just wanted to post for information for those who have not seen it. All three horn/compresion driver combo's can sound very good on axis even though there is quite a bit of variation in their off axis response curves.
Rob
Great work,
The wider vertical slot will effect the horizontal dispersion , try it rotated 90 degress and see what happens.
The larger slot may afford lower distortion assuming it runs a 1.5 inch driver....Tad anyone?
Ian
Well, d'UH!
We'll plan on trying that on the next round of tests, when the other drivers and horns get here.
The mounting pattern is different. Didn't want to hack up the TADs QUITE this soon.
[Ian thinks outside the box. GOOD stuff!!]
Just discovered JBL makes a horn adapter for using PT Waveguides with 1" drivers.
[MORE options....]
I did think about it, but not until after I had taken the driver off and disassembled my turntable rig. Sorry.
Oh heck, the damn thing still needs to be used as a three-way anyway... just track down a 2344!
Widget
B380, 2426J on 2370A, 3110A. Attenuated HF 6 dB, not quite enough yet. Narrow vertical field, 40°, is apparent. Not 4430's, tho, I hear the horns.
Looks nasty, plays nice, and boy, howdy, LOUD. Good choice for frat parties. HF Boost on 800 Hz 3110A network works for CD horn compensation.
I'd forgotten how superbly competent B380's are. I keep pushin' loudness compensation on just to shake the place. They don't care, they just DO it.
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