Ohyou have the coated diaphrams?? How are they??
Rob
Oh
Rob
Clio RTA results are in the link. MLS and LF sinusoidal will appear in the "Keepers" thread soon....Originally Posted by Mr. Widget
Regarding midrange "coloration," I think it's gone, but I really also need to mount the horns in boxes, as you suggested.
They're ready for you to hear again, next time you can drop by. I need your help with CLIO, too....
Best I can explain it, the uncoated diaphragms have a "character," which, when I switch to the Aquaplassed "SL" diaphragms, disappears. Initially, I perceived it as something missing, and kept watching the FR display for reassurance.Oh
Turns out, what's gone was simply wrong.
I cannot say which is better: aluminum, mylar, coated titanium, or beryllium, but it's worth noting that JBL is also using coated (damped) aluminum in the new Array series.
It's an artifact of operation in the breakup mode, perhaps, but I'm reluctant to ascribe it to anything that specific as yet. I just don't have the requisite knowledge of the fundamentals.
I observed early on in these investigations that the aluminum diaphragms sounded better. The coated titaniums exhibit the same order of magnitude improvement, I'd say, perhaps more....
It's funny to read this thread.
And stop baiting him Rob
You have coated diaphragms.
"If it's metal, coat it."
I think I mentioned that to you some time ago Zilch. Substrate is irrelevant. Al, Ti, Be, - coat it all.
You'd probably be better off doing TS measurements on both transducers and then modeling them... do both transducers at the same time so you get results under reasonably similar conditions. I'm not real sure why you're so enamored with E130's or E140's reconed as 2235H's, it kind of defeats the purpose of using mass rings and the like since you're going to a more powerful magnetic assembly. You want a weaker magnetic assembly with that software if you want more extension. If you insist on using the more powerful E130 or E140 hardware you might as well leave out the mass ring too. You can continue to suggest to everyone that E130's and E140's reconed as 2235H's are "good enough", I really don't care. It's their problem not mine. I personally view it as a wasted 2235H kit.
I find it difficult to accept how anyone could arrive an any conslusions listening in a garage.
It's more of a shop area than a garage. I guess to be absolutely accurate, it looks like it was a garage at one time but was converted to a shop/storage area. I consulted Websters and their description of a garage is; "A building or wing of a building in which to park a car." There is no way you could park a car in there so, if you take Webster's description literally, it's not a garage. I looked up "shop" and one of the descriptions is "A home workshop." I think that more accurately describes the area where the work and listening is done. I'm sure Zilch has plans to build a "proper" listening room at some point? Maybe an anechoic chamber is the ticket? In my mind, if it sound good, it sounds good, no matter where you are listening to it.
I'll go with that!
Personally, as I've said before... a bit more time spent on the room and a bit less on the 90+ designs he's worked on over that last year or two wouldn't be a bad idea... but that's just me.
Widget
That not what I meant but will be more careful with the syntax to avoid any confusion in future.
By they way do you own any coated diaphragms yourself?
You have to listen to them in a controlled environment for quite a while to discern what the differences are or form any qualitatative understanding.
Its just that generally I find a better appreciation of hi end audio equipment in my home listening room, not the workshop.
He's right too!
Widget
Actually, the listening conditions in the "laboratory" are well controlled, and the acoustic treatments are extraordinary:
1) Ceiling is 9'-3" mounted on resiliant channel with sound board behind.
2) "Door" wall is exposed 4" fiberglass insulation, as commonly used in bass traps.
3) Opposite wall is 5/8" sheetrock on resiliant channel.
4) One long wall is lined with 8' high racks of 12" deep bin boxes, space between rows, not unlike anechoic treatments.
5) Overall dimensions are 15' X 18', equivalent of a "large" listening room.
Bottom line: while the conditions may not be optimum, they are controlled, and suitable for my use in comparative testing and listening. I am well familiar with how stuff sounds in there.
It ain't an ordinary garage....
'Course, not EVERYONE has the luxury of listening under "optimum" conditions, either:
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...3&postcount=23
http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...8&postcount=40
Naw, need to build more CROSSOVERS, is what.
Alas, the county tax assessor agrees with you, tho. They want me to get on with completing the house....
Hee, hee.It's funny to read this thread.
And stop baiting him Rob
You have coated diaphragms.
I assume and accept that Rob has a genuine interest in the reaction of others to coated diaphragms in comparative testing....
Yup, gonna do that, once I get my 2235H's back from refoam. It'll be interesting to compare those to the other ones with brand new cone kits installed, as well....
That's an understatement... not to mention... no room for a car!Bottom line: while the conditions may not be optimum...
It ain't an ordinary garage....
Widget
I guess... I personally couldn't care less what any of you think of coated diaphragms... it's simply a non-issue.I assume and accept that Rob has a genuine interest in the reaction of others to coated diaphragms in comparative testing....
Yup, gonna do that, once I get my 2235H's back from refoam. It'll be interesting to compare those to the other ones with brand new cone kits installed, as well....
As for the 2235H's - so you have four 2235H's and two E130's reconed as 2235H's?
Well, there's a bunch more in various systems here, actually, but the three pair for evaluation are:
1) The 2235H's I bought from you, which are now being refoamed,
2) A pair of 2225H with new 2235H kits installed, broken-in, and,
3) A pair of E140-8 with new 2235H kits installed, now also broken-in.
Might be interesting to do T/S (Fs, at least) on the refoams before breaking them in, as well as after. I suspect the shift in Fs comes from breaking in new spiders, not foams. Easily determined in this case....
What, then, ARE the fundamentals?
Is it breakup mode resonances being tamed?
These 4" diaphragms have diamond surrounds. I understand there's a movement away from them in current design, too....
Zilch,
Okay, but what is your criteria for your remarks? A fleeting glimpse at your much loved RTA..(a ruler straight line to daylight or its crap), whether your dog ScoobyDoo bangs his head when he pricks his ears up under the bench or whether Barney over the fence starts toe tapping with Wilma when you pull out a 78!
There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
