4333 overhaulin' advice

[Fred Sanford]

Hi Guys- I've got a pair of 4333s that I'll be bringing in to my friend's shop for some repair. I've got some credit to burn up with him, and I figured I'd let him take a peek at the innards to get them up to snuff. They've had a very tough life, as I had outlined in a previous post:

Quick version of the 4333AWX's story- maybe 20 years ago Arista records founder Clive Davis wants an upgrade to his office playback system, calls in my boss who he knew through Barry Manilow. My boss pulls out the JBLs, a Sansui BA-5000 power amp, and some other gear. They sit around for a few years, until his daughter turns 10 or so, then they spend a few years blasting Depeche Mode and The Cure through them until she goes to college and can't fit them in her dorm. They sit in her Mom's garage for a few more years, until I rescue them. Sansui goes to my friend Scott:

www.sgcustomsound.com

...to power the Lunar Module Subwoofer in his showroom, JBLs come home with me. Cabinets are rough, one piece of trim on the front completely missing. Moisture damage evident on cabinets, level controls, crossover switch, everywhere. Deep scratches everywhere. Mids sound harsh at certain frequencies, but once they're lined up they're fine. Woofer surrounds were shot, Scott replaced them for me. Still need to clean/replace/bypass the x-over switch, and clean the level controls, but they sound sweet. They'll end up being the playback monitors in my studio's main room, not sure how much I'll bother with fe-finishing the cabs, depends on what I can barter with my woodworking friends. They've been playing occasionally with a Denon PMA920 integrated amp and a Velodyne sub, but will eventually most likely be biamped with two of my Yamaha P2100 power amps.

So, the advice I'm trolling for here is...what else should I be looking for while these are on the bench? X-over switch & L-Pads are on the list, what other functional bits should get the once-over? Any popular X-over mods to consider?

Thanks in advance,

je

[Robh3606]

If you are popping them open I would take a look under the 2420 caps and see what the foam pad and diaphram look like. I would also pull the horn off the 2405's to see what they look like. If they were in a lot of moisture I would open them up and just let them dry out a spell too if you haven't already. They smell musty inside??? Take a look at the baffle board and the cabinet inside see if its all sound or has any swelling or any water damage inside. See if the screws are all tight. Last thing you want to do is have a buzz from a loose brace. Bases shot??? Any rust on the poleplates or magnet pots?? If there is I would consider getting it off and repainting them.


Rob

[edgewound]

In addition to what Rob suggested...replace the capacitors in the crossovers. There's lots of suggestions in the forum on that subject.

[Fred Sanford]

Thanks for the reply & suggestions- I had pulled the 15s for the re-foaming, and had pulled the mids to align the drivers. Nothing nasty to note inside as far as humidity damage, just long-term neglect that took a toll on the outside & exposed terminals. Think years in a basement & garage, not a weekend in a flood. That would be my JBL TR225s, they sucked up a flood like sponges & split badly .

Grilles on the 4333s are even surprisingly good, but not perfect. I could take snapshots if it helps, I guess I'm mostly looking for maintenance or mods to list when I give Scott my checklist.

Thanks,

je

[Fred Sanford]

Update- Scott's had them in his shop for about a week, he says a large percentage of his clients have walked towards him at his bench, then spun around in place, pointing at my speakers. "Uh, the 4333's, they for sale?" He was shocked at how many people recognized what they were even though they were sitting face to face with their grilles on.

Finally, yesterday, enough people hounded him to get a listen to them that he lugged 'em into his listening room & fired 'em up. All present were impressed by what they heard with the 7-watt amp he tested them with (JoLida, I believe, but I'm not sure). Scott, who is usually less than glowing about the gear I bring him to fix, sounded genuinely excited about digging into the repairs & upgrades so that he could hear the finished product. The fun has begun. News & pics hopefully this weekend.

je

[Fred Sanford]

Internals and performance are much prettier than before, so far total work has been foam surrounds/x-over caps/L-pads/cleaning the int-ext x-over switch/other inspecting & refurbishing. They sound just gorgeous.

Now to the externals- I was thinking of recessing these into a storage space in one of our upstairs bedrooms, but then my wife said, "Didn't you want these in the Living Room?" So, now it's on to some woodworking friends to try to barter some cosmetics work. Since I'm not having much luck inserting images into the post, here's a shortcut to a site with pics (sorry about the quality, coudn't find the good digital cam):

http://home.earthlink.net/~jdeavs/generalphotoalbum/

The veneers are beyond recovery, I'm sure. Grilles aren't terrible, but are different shades of blue (along with some moldy green) on each side. Not sure what direction I'll go for new veneers & grilles, I'll have to scope some options and run them by my wonderful wife...

Thanks for all the help & inspiration so far!

je

[Fred Sanford]

Any significance to this? I've looked around on the site a bit, and I figure it's something to do with cabinet design & finish vs. actual components installed. The front badge says Model 4333A, the rear label says 4503AWX-3. If it's of any interest, the serial #s are 10070 and 10072.

Thanks,

je

[yggdrasil]

Do the scratches go all the way through the veneer?


Dependent on how you are going to place them. If they are placed on the floor or low a speaker stand, I would think that the veneer quality on the bottom is irrelevant.

Then there is the question of wanted finish on the end product. Are those 4333 oiled walnut? Oiled wood must be in almost perfect condtion to look really good.

If, on the other hand, you have a lacquered finish, with added color/specks, you can hide almost any damage to the veneer.

I believe Zilch might help you with new cloth to the grilles.

You might also want to consider moving one of the 2405's to make an imaged pair.

Good luck.

[speakerdave]

The front badge says Model 4333A, the rear label says 4503AWX-3.

You have the 4333A speaker system, which includes the 4503AWX-3 cabinet, I believe.

David

[Fred Sanford]

Yes, some of the scratches and most of the corners are worn through the veneer. I believe they've been lacquered at some point, check the full-front pic and look at the shine on the trim pieces. Not sure what they were originally, unless that AWX designation is a clue. I'd hate to put a bunch of time/money into the existing veneer only to be unhappy with the results, but I might give it a shot if the woodworker is confident enough that good results are possible.

Two of the pics on the site are the bottoms, but one is the top, just hover over the pics to see the titles- they're nearly as bad as the bottoms. The sides are also scratched, the one pic I posted has so much mildew and water damage that the veneer is bubbling up in places. That scratch shown is also very deep, through the veneer at points.

I am planning on moving the 2405 once they're in place. Forgot to do that while we had them apart.

Maybe we just build a custom entertainment center to house them, we all know they just don't make 'em big enough for all the gear we want to stuff into 'em, much less leaving room for cables or ventilation...

Thanks, I'll post progress as it happens.

je

[Fred Sanford]

I changed the site to show you full resolution when you click on a pic, more gory details that way.

Enjoy,

je

[Fred Sanford]

Update- woodworker friend sanded 'em down, the original veneer may be recoverable. He's giving the worst side a quick treatment, I should see the results when I visit in about 2 weeks.


je

[subwoof]

I found some trim pieces from a 4343 rebuild project in the woodshop loft last weekend. They are the same as the 4333 and if you need a piece, let me know how long it needs to be.

sub

[Fred Sanford]

Wow, that would be great- all that is missing is one trim along the bottom of one cab, shown in the first and fourth pictures here:

http://home.earthlink.net/~jdeavs/generalphotoalbum/

Any help would be greatly appreciated, and if there's anything you're looking for I'd be happy to return a favor.

Thanks,

je

[sajt]

You have the 4333A speaker system, which includes the 4503AWX-3 cabinet, I believe.

David

i have this the SN: 10565 and 10566

i have switched of the xover, and made biwireing. the sound GREAT.