Finally my new babes have arrived (4435)

[baldrick]

BTW Remusr: The room will be dedicated for HiFi/surround so I don't have to think that much about other use of it, luckily we've bought a big house with many rooms, so the kids don't have to play in this room

[remusr]

Baldrick - with that huge a house you gotta find a bigger room for the 4435's - and your not-so-small 70kg satellite speakers and 100" TV! I can't imagine moving those hulks around, must be using a dolly. Or swap your 4435's for Leif's 4430's?
You might find the attached Excel spreadsheet for room modes calculation useful in figuring where & why you are getting bass cancellation nodes and how to move things or you to fix it. It only works in rectangular rooms, unfortunately. Note - it has a doc extension needed to be able to attach, so copy it and rename the extension back to xls to boot it up.
- Roy

[baldrick]

Unfortunately my wife won't have the 4435 in the living room which is much bigger room, but in fact I understand that she wont since the 4435 are HUGE and honestly not that pretty

But anyway I thought I should be able to get decent sound from a room of those sizes as well!?! I've always been able to get things to work before, and the 4435 shouldn't be that different from other speakers. I'll see if I can find a "room seperator" like Rolf was talking about and/or try the other room which has less angels and also is a bit bigger. The problem is that it's kinda filled up with boxes at the moment

[Rolf]

Or swap your 4435's for Leif's 4430's?

What are you??? Crazy???

[Rolf]

Unfortunately my wife won't have the 4435 in the living room which is much bigger room, but in fact I understand that she wont since the 4435 are HUGE and honestly not that pretty

They are pretty! They look exactly what they are. 4435!

You have to work with your wife man... Do you think the 4343 without the front looks more pretty? No. (I guess) My wife if perfectly happy to have them in our living room, but of course she also love the sound. Maybe I am blessed with a wife like her.

and the 4435 shouldn't be that different from other speakers.

Yes they are. You got a high-end studio monitor, and these are the worst to figure out how to make them play good.

I'll see if I can find a "room seperator" like Rolf was talking about and/or try the other room which has less angels and also is a bit bigger. The problem is that it's kinda filled up with boxes at the moment

Do that, and maybe you get lucky. Even if the room looks "perfect" you still have to find the place, angle, height and so on to make them play their best. Ask Ian. He knows a lot more than I. He was the one that made my speakers improve 110%.

[leif]

Happy to hear that you have a very good result after you changed foam.
But why not change wife at the same time. Find one that is like mine or Rolfs wife. That accept big speakers in the living room. Those kind of wifes are a rare species, but you find them if you search long enough

[baldrick]

Hehe, I don't think that is going to happen As I wrote, I agree with her that the 4435 is NOT very pretty, so I guess they stay downstairs... (yeah I know many of you, in fact maybe most of you disagree with my oppinion of the look of the 4435, but who cares, it's the sound that counts for me)

I guess I have to wait until I get a pair of black 250TIs as well before I can something like this in the livingroom again In the previous house I had the CV/JBL hybrid (which I'm going to use as surround speakers now) in the living room, but compared to the 4435 they are pretty good looking

[B&KMan]

I have also had problems with reflections with my 4430. It is of course the room, with oak floor without carpet, and large naked walls that make the reflections. But some people say that the 4430 and 4435 is difficult with reflections. Because the horns and the high crossover from the 15 incher to the horn.
I have also tried to put blankets and pillows on the floors, and it help to minimise reflections, but it does not give more bass here. But I have enough like it is...

Hello Leif, (and baldrick )

You have a beautiful piece and excellent system. Your problem is integration acoustic rule in your set-up. The speaker on the floor create more pressure in bass (6 dB arroud join of 2 surfaces and 12 dB arround 3 surfaces. So if you pull up your speaker your probaly natural degreaser bass and if you place in good height , the bass is snap better tight and fast...
the tuning is direct proportionnal to distance of the walls and floor.
the toe in is only for medium-high freq (flutter effect ex) and do not affect the bass directly.

2-- your speaker is relatively close to sidewall so be shure the tune-up distance for snap bass. (select drum sing and play, play and play again on little displacement at each time... probably your found where the phase interaction is best... and less fuzzy or "over" natural amplifie by room.

be shure your ear position is on regards of recommendation of JBL.

I remark your horn is inside position. it is better than outside ?? (flip your right and left speaker ( less medium response but extend image and high freq.)

Be shure never your put the electronic on the sub or your induce a terrible TDH in your electronic...


In general , I have many experience who guys is push hight to much because the bass is bad tuning, many fuzz or over bloom bass create a non-equilibrium spectrum response. so guys push high driver for equilibrium. but this state create double non natural response. You try to attenuate by carpet or other goddy padding.

finally you patch the echo and in reality the problem is the bad counter reaction of phase reflexion.


put carpet and any absorbe material only if your echo is to long or hard


Of course my explanation is purely hypothesys. (I'm no ear and no mesures your parameter.)
more treatment expose a complexe analyse of your freq responses, echo.flutter, structural distribution and absortion building.

I hope this is help you.

p.s. make your idea in your mind: this speaker is monitor is tuned in consequently. look the L300 residential version, all driver is tilted 10 degree to up for broken the standing wave and for better coherence. Maybe if your tilt your speakers you realise a couple of surprise...

p.s. the material for tilt speaker is hard and strong as possible for not create a damping in transient response.

brick , very hard wood, steel, etc.

:CHEERS:

[leif]

Thanks a lot for all those suggestions. I will for sure follow your advices as well as I can. I will swap the speakers, and will change the location of the power amplifier. I would love to lift the speakers some few inches, but are not sure how I should get it done. I guess I have to think a little about how to do it, and I am sure I will come up with something.
Thanks again!

Leif

[B&KMan]

I would love to lift the speakers some few inches, but are not sure how I should get it done.
Leif

the intensity Power is drop of 3 db by double extension space. !!

THIS is a pysical law ... try !!

(and I'm not touch the point where the level of power vibration your speaker is put in the floor and create and extension vibration membrane whith your floor )

put 2 bricks on the floor at front speaker and one in back...

for protect your floor on the test time; do not put lint on the floor : put papernews !! or thin foil steel...

REMEMBER, this is a puzzle and your problem is not remediate by only one action...

only mesures give a REAL evaluation of manys acoustical parameters

the precision instruments give to found the nature and the level of effects and permit to apply just right action to cancel problem without create another problem.

So I'm not waranty the result but I'M waranty the principle is according to physical laws

good luck:

p.s.
do not hesitate to write on paper your appreciation after each modification.

In this it, you help yourselft to isolate factors who influence the sound reproduction in your room.

[baldrick]

Thanx a lot for your advice B&K I will sure try to lift my speakers a bit and see if it can help, I've tried almost anything else!

I've also tried the speakers in the other room next door, but unfortunately... almost the same the result even though the room has a more normal design. Another thing both rooms have in common is that when I'm very close (i.e. 50 cm) to the speakers (or behind the speakers) there's lots of beautiful bass, but not in the rest of the room.

The floor in my basement is concrete with only a couple of mm (plast) flooring, could this be an issue?

[leif]

Balderick, there is a pair of Ti250 limited edition on finn.no now.....

[baldrick]

I know, I talked to the seller last week But they are unforunately too expensive, he wouldn't consider selling them under 20' NOK and I'm afraid that's too expensive at the moment... at least I would need to sell the 4435 and as long as I can't get any speaker to work perfect in my room, I don't know what to do at the moment

[B&KMan]

The floor in my basement is concrete with only a couple of mm (plast) flooring, could this be an issue?

Hello, please push more details explanation if you wish help...

p.s. your speakers is a BIG BIG BIG speaker...

the integration in room is really triky.

do you have any instrument mesure ?? sound level meter, mic , any gadget ???

Normally the concrete floor is excellent to keep bass inside room

the power pressure is higher

it is absolule critical you pull out on the corner the speaker or any wall or floor for attenuated the renforcment power by reflexion.

unfortunately , without any mesures freq, it is very difficult to help you...

but reminding the panel bass absorber solution ...

( many details construction is available on the net.)

salutations.

[leif]

Another thing both rooms have in common is that when I'm very close to the speakers (or behind the speakers) there's lots of beautiful bass

A simple suggestion: Change the location of the horns. Put them on the back side of your speakers, and turn the big beasts 180 degrees. Then you will listen to the back side of them, where the bass is loud and beautiful