Horns VS cones

[JuniorJBL]

Oh. I meant group not forum. There used to be several audiophile groups around in Denver and one could go listen to different loudspeaker systems in different environments. That's kind of how one finds out just how crappy a pair of say L300's can sound in one home and how great they can sound in another home.

ohisee

Yea maybe but one thing I really like to do is understand the how's and the why's. I really hate to know "just enough to get in trouble"

But you are right If I am not mistken there are quite a few "horn groups" here in town.
Thanks Giskard

[Harkness]

oh man, i love my horns..

horn loaded bass is especially powerful. it really hits you like real sound. try reproducing well recorded drums (like morello on take 5) at live levels and physically feeling the bass drum with a cone system. you would need a lot of direct radiating drivers to achieve the dynamic speed and power of a horn loaded bass cabinet. horn loaded speakers are big, but a decent folded horn will reproduce better bass sound than a much larger ported enclosure.


i also enjoy some cones.. my first ear opening speaker set was a pair of LE-8's/PR-8's that i put into a solid mid-sized box. played with my tube leak point 1 preamp and a dynaco stereo 35 and my rega turntable i had incredibly lifelike sound until i wanted to hear it loud. played quietly though, it was like a direct line to the grooves.. vocals sounded amazing. so liquid.

i use cone studio monitors all the time. they sound best when massively over-amped with beefy power. then they begin to sound dynamically responsive.

[scott fitlin]

Yes, Harkness, I agree with you, but, I have found that for really proper folded horn bass and sub bass, the horn cabinets get quite large. And, large horns sometimes need large rooms to operate correctly.

One thing I like about horn systems, is you usually dont need much power, and low power, high efficiency systems can not only sound real, lifelike and play at realistic levels, they also ( set up properly ) can sound really easy on the ears!

But, then, as much as I love horn systems, for bass, the major manufacturers are not really making drivers truly suitable for horn loading these days! Horn woofers usually had lightweight cones that were stiff, with a really fast response. These days, everyone is making heavy weight cones, with higher and higher power handling! I guess they have to keep up with the amp manufacturers, but, vintage horns and woofers can sound amazing, what happens if you want to buy new?

FWIW, I have used modern day woofers in horns -vs- older, traditional horn woofers in horns, and pretty much always prefered the older woofer for horn loading! One thing I have noticed, as they increase the power handling ability of woofers, they seem to lose the snap, and immediacy their predecessors had. I have also heard folded bass horns, made today, designed for the woofers they use, that are made now, and still thought them kind of foggy sounding!

One of my favorite folded horn woofers was Gauss! Those things KICKED, and had that snap and twang that made bass come to life, I also loved JBL E-155,s in rear loaded horns. It just worked! I, recently, had put a pair of E-155,s into one of my scoops just to see if they still had it! Yes they do! So clear, and centered on the kick of the drum, with a fast, snap to the bassists pluck of the string. Sounds live! Too bad I dont have enough E-155,s to load all my rear loaded horns with them. Not the absolute deepest bottom, and yet, something was really right about the way it sounds, TO ME!

I must confess, I miss that stuff!

[Tom Brennan]

Direct radiators are good for bass if they're big but from midrange on up I want horns.

I don't understand the enthusiasm for JBL fullrange direct radiators, all of them I've heard have been rather mediocre (IMO). It's the big woofers, compression drivers and horns that make JBL and Altec of interest, I know how to get a Madisound catalog if I want chinless small cones and tragic domes.

If I get into fullrange direct radiators I'll go Bozaks, in fact I already have some Bozak coaxials waiting in the wings.

[scott fitlin]

Direct radiators are good for bass if they're big but from midrange on up I want horns.

Yeah, I feel that way too.

Thats why, as long as I can keep them going, I will never take my Altec VOTT,s, and JBL 2395/2441, or JBL 2402,s out of here!

[louped garouv]

Junior --

I am in the middle of rewiring my system right now.... but in a week or so, I should be done. if you want to hear my Altec A7s (mine are: 511B horn with 802Gs, 515B woofers), you are more than welcome to check them out.....

I will be running my A7s with a pair of 075s and subs off of a active 4way crossover


I am sure they are not the greatest system around town, but I like them just fine......

just be aware that this is not your father's hi-fi

[JuniorJBL]

That would be awesome

[louped garouv]

I'll give you a call when i am done and we can set up a day/time.....

what's your poison?

I normally have scotch, burbon, wine (white, red, bubbly), and some other liquors around the house, but always looking to expand my palette

[Titanium Dome]

Direct radiators are good for bass if they're big but from midrange on up I want horns.

I don't understand the enthusiasm for JBL fullrange direct radiators, all of them I've heard have been rather mediocre (IMO). It's the big woofers, compression drivers and horns that make JBL and Altec of interest, I know how to get a Madisound catalog if I want chinless small cones and tragic domes.

If I get into fullrange direct radiators I'll go Bozaks, in fact I already have some Bozak coaxials waiting in the wings.

Yeah, I feel that way too.

Thats why, as long as I can keep them going, I will never take my Altec VOTT,s, and JBL 2395/2441, or JBL 2402,s out of here!

I couldn't be more pleased that you're pleased with your horns, despite your disparagement of cones and domes.

Good for you, men.

[scott fitlin]

I couldn't be more pleased that you're pleased with your horns, despite your disparagement of cones and domes.

Good for you, men.

No, quite the opposite, I do not disparage direct radiators, they have their place! I happen to love my vented/horn bass cabinets. The best of both worlds!

I am also installing some direct radiator subs, I like the clarity, and in other regions love horns. But its a combination of things for me!

[Titanium Dome]

No, quite the opposite, I do not disparage direct radiators, they have their place! I happen to love my vented/horn bass cabinets. The best of both worlds!

I am also installing some direct radiator subs, I like the clarity, and in other regions love horns. But its a combination of things for me!

Sorry ScottyJ. I thought when you wrote "Yeah, I feel that way, too" that you were agreeing with Tom. Maybe not 100%, then?

[scott fitlin]

I do agree with Tom, BUT I also use direct radiating for other regions!

Truth be told, Altec VOTT,s are a combination of direct and horn produced sound, and I like this alot!

But, for my mids, mid bass and highs, I like some type of horn loading.

I may endeavor to build some 15in BR quad boxes after I get my new ported " Direct Radiator " subs. I like the deepness and clean sound of good ported boxes, and I like the dynamics of horns, and I want to combine things for the ultimate in sound. I have seen this done before in installs similar to mine!

[Steve Schell]

I have to agree with you bass hornies regarding the superiority of bass horns, and their choice as optimum to match the rest of a horn system. It is simply the ideal choice if their size can be tolerated. Physics win out here, as direct radiator low frequency drivers have to work so much harder than horn loaded drivers to produce the same level, and most distortions are proportional to excursion. Even with ambitious large format studio monitors, the d.r. bass doesn't seem to quite keep up with the rest of the horn loaded range dynamically.

When people make remarks about my 128 cubic foot horn subwoofer, I tell them "It's not large, its just the right size to do the job."

[4313B]

It is simply the ideal choice if their size can be tolerated. Physics win out here, as direct radiator low frequency drivers have to work so much harder than horn loaded drivers to produce the same level, and most distortions are proportional to excursion. Even with ambitious large format studio monitors, the d.r. bass doesn't seem to quite keep up with the rest of the horn loaded range dynamically.

Very nice Steve.

[JuniorJBL]

I have built a few "folded,horn loaded" bass cabs some where pretty good as well. They were big as well. But they did sound very good. They had control that a direct radiator just did not have. This is what I perceived at the time. I never put them with mf/hf horns tho.

Thanks Steve for your input as well as others. I am going to a forum members house soon to listen to his Altecs. I am looking forward to this.