Horns VS cones

[JuniorJBL]

I would like to hear what people have to say about horns vs dome/cone speaker systems.
Please do not get into a debate about what YOU think is best just your opinions.
I would also like to know the details about what you hear in the speaker system imaging sound stage and the likes.
I have only had dome/cone speakers and I am wondering what people think.
Please keep this to a low roar as I know this can be a big debate.
Also keep this to JBL horns and cones ONLY!!

PS: Moderators if this should be in the General forum please move there (it most likely should, sorry)

[Titanium Dome]

You can't start a thread like this unless you reference this one:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...ead.php?t=6093

There's a reason my moniker has "dome" in it, instead of "horn."

[4313B]

I've owned pretty much every higher end JBL from the 70's, 80's and 90's and I've always preferred the direct radiators to the cd/horn systems. I did find the 4430 and 4435 to be the most tolerable of the horn/cd systems and the 4430 was a mainstay in my collection longer than any other JBL if I leave out counting the 4313B.

I've heard some truly impressive large format cd/horn based studio monitors belonging to other people who have taken the time to set them up right and they can be truly remarkable. Mounting the monitors in walls, which I've done quite a few times, and employing a considerable amount of environmental assessories can make all the difference.

I am looking forward to the Array Series and other soon to be revealed systems. Rumor is, "they have the power and dynamics of horns, they just don't sound like any of the horns you're used to" and that's pretty much what I've been waiting for all these years.

[JuniorJBL]

Thanks for the link Dome I was searching last night LATE but who knows what I was searching for:dont-know I thought I was searching for horns but.....

Giskard I really want to hear the xxxxxx-xx when it is out as well. and thanks for your input as it is very similar to my views so far.

[Titanium Dome]

I've owned pretty much every higher end JBL from the 70's, 80's and 90's and I've always preferred the direct radiators to the cd/horn systems. I did find the 4430 and 4435 to be the most tolerable of the horn/cd systems and the 4430 was a mainstay in my collection longer than any other JBL if I leave out counting the 4313B.

I've heard some truly impressive large format cd/horn based studio monitors belonging to other people who have taken the time to set them up right and they can be truly remarkable. Mounting the monitors in walls, which I've done quite a few times, and employing a considerable amount of environmental assessories can make all the difference.

I am looking forward to the Array Series and other soon to be revealed systems. Rumor is, "they have the power and dynamics of horns, they just don't sound like any of the horns you're used to" and that's pretty much what I've been waiting for all these years.

Sheesh! My eyes are red and my pants are wet just thinking about it.

[Nightbrace]

OH NO< this thread may NEVER end!

[chad]

....Also keep this to JBL horns and cones ONLY!!....

I'd love to respond, however my loudspeaker palette goes outside the realm of JBL. Anyway, here is my contribution, a little pair of drivers for you.

[skeptical1]

Given your experience and history with JBL, I am curious as to whether you have heard any of the K2 series, and in particular the K2 9800?
My taste seems to be similar to yours with regards to horn systems, but I think the K2 would change my opinion, based upon the reviews I have read.

And your remark about forthcoming unanounced promising systems from JBL( in addition to Array series, I assume?), leaves me with a bunch of hope for the future.

[Titanium Dome]

In its normal consumer lines in the US, the only horns I'm aware of in the past two decades are Bi-Radial&#174; designs. These were used in the SVA Series, the HLS Series, and the current HT Series, which really is just an improved SVA design with Ti drivers in place of the soft domes.

I'm excluding Synthesis and K2 lines becuase of their ultra-niche status. When is a consumer product not really a consumer product?

It appears that the SVAs and HLSs didn't sell all that well and weren't in production all that long. It appears consumer taste in general is not inclined toward horns.

The recently debuted Studio L Series and the new Project Array Series have horns, though the Studio L horns are miniscule. We'll see if the Project Arrays generate any buzz for horns in the consumer space.

IMO there's a disproportionate fondness for horn-based systems on LH because so many folks have specific backgrounds. In a sampling of a more normal population of consumers or even of JBL-owning consumers, horns would be less well-represented than they are on these virtual pages.

One could argue that if people who make their living in sound or who invest as much time in music reproduction as we do tend to prefer horns at a rate higher than the general music listening population, then maybe horns are indeed preferable. Unfortunately, it could mean other things as well.

For me, the preferred sound comes from direct radiators. So as much as I enjoy a good HORNING from time to time, when I'm serious about sound, it's direct for me.

[Mr. Widget]

Ah never mind... they're all flawed and wonderful too...

Widget

[scott fitlin]

Horns have the quality of offering a realistic sound, big dynamic swing. Its an elusive quality, though. One thats often harder to achieve correctly than it is to get it all wrong. And this was true 25 and 35 and 45 years ago just like it is today. But, when you do get em to work the way they are intended to, its magic, its alive!

Direct radiators can be fantastic too. More dimensional, better for close in listening. Cone mid is warmer, yet dynamic, depending on the cone driver, of course.



Great horn based systems require much money, and just as much skill and knowledge to get the correct sound from!

[Zilch]

Well, there's horns with compression drivers, and horns without.

It ain't apples and apples.

I don't consider horns without compression drivers as horns at all.

Unless they're BASS horns, of course.

Or cone midrange compression drivers (CMCD,) maybe.

HLS and SVA horns aren't "horns," in my book.

"Waveguides," maybe.

[Never mind.... ]

[Ian Mackenzie]

Junior,

In some respects your answer is a give away.

Long term cone/direct radiator listeners tend to stay with what they are used to.

However.................if you are looking for more or a system that can do more..or the next level read on.

On my experiences ......oddly I went from a 43xx horn (HF and UHF) back to a soft dome RCF monitor model SCD 6000 (a poor mans JBL 4312) and while they were mellow and polite they lacked the micro dymanics and sheer accuracy of a medium format 4 way like a 4345.

If you are trying to make your mind up..the distinction is not horns versus cones per say....its the application..

You probably won't like a two way horn system as much as a 3 way cone system in the same class. But a 4 or 5 way horn system or a hyprid cone woofer +mid and a Horn Hf and uhf as a 4 way might give you the accuracy and spine tingling micro dynamics that JBL as are famous for.

I have always found 3 way horn systems more acceptable for real hifi listening because the mass rolloff of compression drivers tends make two ways loose out on accuracy and true extension.

Also, consider the current crop small crop medium size cone systems now using wave guides on the dome tweeters. The wave guides control early reflections and improve imaging while also significantly reducing driver harmonic distortion at the bottom end of the range allowing the dome to work much lower into the domain where a good woofer mid cone driver is still in piston mode.


Unfortunately this is not very practical for large systems because of the size of mouth of the wave guides at lower frequencies. (see Earl Geddes home page for details)


I have a heard a few of these systems and they are really excellent, particularly for near and mid field listening.

Hope these few thoughts help..trust your ears not the specs!

[norealtalent]

Ah never mind... they're all flawed and wonderful too...

Widget

You took the words right out of my mouth...

[Robh3606]

Hey Dome

Your missing Klipsh with their Tractics horns, Edgar Horns, and several others out there. Horns have a small but devoted group of followers. As far as more Hornies here than the norm your probably correct. The thing is with JBL, any of the larger systems are at least a hybrid with a horn loaded mid, tweeter of both. Horns are so ingrained in JBL's heritage I think it would be unusual for a JBL lover not to at least appreciate their advantages and not fall head over heels for the dynamic and effortless presentation they are capable of. In general these are only rarely approached by most other dynamic loudspeakers. The dynamic drivers that come closest to me are JBL, Altec and Tad drivers. No surprise there though.

Rob