and with that...I say Goodbye to the forum
and with that...I say Goodbye to the forum
Always leave on a good note. Coltrane always did.
It would be a real shame to chase people off that are following the forum rules. I just re-read the forum rules that's supplied in each main forum section, and "Off Topic" is a wide open menu that has to do with everything not Lansing. Maybe Don McRitchie can clear the air in this subject. I think he means for people that have a common interest to become friends...that people have other interests as well. He has set up a space for that exchange to materialize...called it "Off Topic". Is the issue here, really, that members' fun is spoiling the Moderators' party? Maybe a middle ground solution would be to have "Off Topic" posts disappear after a length of time has passed, like hapy..face suggested, to preserve system resources.
Give that some thought, please. Maybe there's some misunderstanding that's not written anywhere for members to read.
For me...if I feel a post doesn't grab my attention...I skip it.
Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA
"Shoot!!!!!!! I just got personal and funny, I'm off topic!!!...quick!!!!!!!!!!! where's the delete button before the LH forum police and the Bush people see this....Darn..where's that button
Right, here we are trying to discuss an issue and we get this sophmoric crap. Prime example of dumbing down a discussion. Sorry but your last 3 posts just proved the point.
Rob
It's easy for me. I know that if I "Click" on a post, I'll be able to SEE it. If the "Topic" is not of my interest, I don't "Click" it.
I can grasp the Harman "Creed" : "If you love music, your'e in good company with Harman International. If it makes, plays or records sound, we're there. Because music is not just our business-IT'S OUR LIFE."
LHF is like a micro sampling of the World: Experts, Marketeers, Comedians, DIY'ers, etc. nothing unusual to me. People will do as people do. They aren't really here to live up to my expectations, nor am I here to live up to theirs. If we share mutual expectations, GREAT. If we don't, I'll still be able to carry on.
We can be happy, we can be sad. The required energy for either, is about the same.
If you keep doing what you always have done, you'll keep getting what you have always gotten.
If you can't change your mind, you can't change anything.
"I just re-read the forum rules that's supplied in each main forum section, and "Off Topic" is a wide open menu that has to do with everything not Lansing."-edgewound
Hmmmm...
I wasn't posting my view of new rules to be added or anything specific. I simply had noticed that the BS had gotten so deep it was starting to spill over the top of my boots and I don't particularly like that.
As I said in several different ways in my initial post and query, I think a certain amount of the social chit chat is acceptable, fun, entertaining etc. I was pointing out that I feel that it is getting thick. (Whatever the actual percentage.) I would like to see a reasonable dialog on the subject... digging through these posts there is one of sorts.
Rob makes a good point that the BS is wide spread... perhaps the Off Topic area should be used as a check valve so that we can purge some of these thoughts and post them there... (I don't mean we the moderators purging stuff, but we the forum members putting our own off topic urges there.)
Face says, "I'm a newbie with a LOT of posts. You could look through my profile and I guess I'm the perfect target here. Most of my posts are in "off topic". However, a lot of those posts consist of nothing more than a back to back chat session style reply. Off topic has become like a forum chatroom running in real time. At least we aren't doing this in the DIY section."
Exactly! ...to me a chatroom is a sort of lowest common denominator. Don't get me wrong, I like to chat. I think your point about it being helpful for a newbie to become aquatinted is good too. That said, if you look back over some of these threads I think we can get that with perhaps a few dozen less entries that are pure fluff. And even there, a bit of fluff is fine. I am sure I have posted more useless BS on this forum than you have, but I have been trying to cut back since the recent dearth of it and also I've posted a ton of on topic, and hopefully sometimes useful info.
"...so the humor, jokes, off-topics, the philosophy is the GLUE that really holds us together..."-JBLnsince1959
And I see that. I like the sense of community that we have created here. I am not trying to stifle it. To use your family metaphor, some families are more chaotic than others... I'd hope that ours could be a little less zoo like.
Anyway that's how I feel. It isn't the view of "THE MODERATORS" or anything other than a fellow forum member's view.
Widget
"It would be a real shame to chase people off that are following the forum rules."
Hello Edgewound
I don't see this discussion as a threat to anyones presence hear. Widget brought up something he wanted to discuss. I added what I saw as well. We need to be able to do this in a healthy community. You need to raise issues and discusss them. It's pretty basic stuff to me. If some feel threatened by this discussion well maybe they should be asking themselves why???? If they choose to leave because of it that's a personal choice. Knowone here is getting banned because they don't see things the same way. I can understand new guys being intimidated by the boys club we have here. All sites have there clicks and groups we all know this. We all ran in our own packs as kids. Off Topic is a good way to break in especially if you don't know that much and can't add much in DIY or Technical. My whole point is keep Off Topic in Off Topic. Try to keep the threads focused so they are easier to read and more useful for others down the road.
Rob
Widget, Rob
Thanks for clarifying your positions. I read your previous posts to be a little on the angry side, so I'm glad you were able to set the record straight. I agree that alot of posts have a tendency to lead a thread down a different path, which is not productive. I've tried lately to refrain from adding comments that just take up space, and sometimes after typing a response I'll delete before I send it....kind of gets it off my chest when I can see the writing....and then just decide..."Aww, forget it....waste of time." I, too, have clicked on a new post only to be disappointed in what was written, and I'm guilty of posting same.
I think the moderators are doing a little nudging to the membership here to encourage us to think a little more about the forum's big picture....think before you click "Submit Reply".
Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA
Off Topic is off topic and means off topic, anywhere.
If not, it is not off topic.
Born to be wild (Steppenwolf).
I wrote a long post regarding this thread, then deleted it, as nobody would take i seriously as usual.
I rest my case.
Rolf
P.S. I thought the "Off Topic" was the place to put Off Topic.
Since both Rolf and Paragon brought up the same point, I guess I should clarify...
Yes the Off Topic area is where off topic discussion should be. My point was that we seem to be heading further off topic more often than we have historically been. This is not a yes/no, black/white issue. It is all about the subtlety.
I should have also addressed the off topic posts in the other forums (fora) too. I originally was thinking of both, but primarily the recent flurry of threads and posts in the Off Topic area.
This forum is about Lansing Heritage. Since it is a heritage dealing with many aspects of audio, all things audio seem relevant to some degree... even those that are "Off Topic". Of course we have discussed many topics that don't relate to Lansing Heritage specifically or audio in general... a certain amount of that is fine, I just happen to think that perhaps we should limit the extreme off topic stuff a bit. I am certainly not advocating a complete end to whacky threads, or subjects that will likely be enjoyed by many here... just use some common sense and remember that this in the Lansing Heritage Discussion Forum.
Along with all things JBL I am also into vintage bicycles. I wouldn't post a thread describing how I recently restored this or that bike... it just isn't relevant here. If I posted a thread titled "Look at This!" about my newly restored vintage touring bike... most of you would pop in and go so????
I hope this helps... and BTW, it is interesting how these one sided conversations resonate... Mr. Edge, I certainly didn't intend to sound angry in my initial post. For me it was more of a question than a statement... as in, "This is how I feel, what do you think?"
Widget
I like to post to threads on this forum, maybe I post too much. I don't know. I also feel I have contributed quite a bit technically. I built a monitor system with photos (4411), posted driver specifications that were nowhere to be found, helped people with problems I solved myself, even helped someone get a driver they really needed. I'm not a dealer, roadie, JBL employee, resident genius, etc, so maybe I'm not "qualified" as much to respond or post in technical or DIY. But when I see a request for help going unanswered and I can help, I will try.
I have taken a lot of stuff offline with PMs. Call it a private thread technique. It does deprive the forum of information and discussion that could be helpful but also keeps the bozos out of the thread. In light of the posts I see here so far I think the PM route is the best way for some people to go.
One more off topic point: There are other speakers than JBL which are worth discussing, and some of them are quite good. I've built more systems without JBLs than with and off topic shouldbe fair game for discussing such things.
Finally, I think I see where I'm at and I'll be more careful what and where I post. I like this forum best of all I look at, and I don't want to get any bad vibes.
No where on this forum does it say EXPERTS ONLY, and I think the bulk of the financial donations come from members who are not experts. I certainly am not an expert and this is why I have never posted in the DIY forum.How can you have an Off Topic area and then try to dictate what should go there? What's the purpose of it,if everything is to be JBL related than it's not off topic.We newbie's are at a disadvantage here,we are small amongst Giants and I don't apoligize for my ignorance. Originally I joined this forum because there were people just like me who liked the same speaker as me and made me realize I wasn't crazy after all, loving a speaker the way I do. Music is a very important thing in life and to have it sound good is even more important.I also joined because I found that there are some very talented people here who have dealt with JBL for a major portion of their lives, who are willing to share information to us less fortunate.This is a great thing. This site could not survive on just experts in the field because there aren't that many and,how do you become an expert?You read,you read,you read, maybe after a while you post about what you have read when you feel comfortable.I am very intimidated when all the experts on this forum decide what is best for everyone else,it makes me not want to post anything.To be a successful forum you must draw newbies to this system and give them some rope,not crucify them because they made a mistake and posted in the wrong forum. I see all this bitching about who posts what where,if it bother's you so much why do you read it? You are trying to make this site experts only and it isin't going to work,though, JBL'S are the best they are not the only thing in life.I have posted in all thread's except DIY because I have no interest to learn why my JBL'S sound so good,I only know that they do and leave that field for people who thrive on that.There are some members here who try to learn the ropes but are made to feel like shit because their not experts in the field.Off topic ain't so much off topic if you really look at it,I have learned alot about the members here by reading the off topic thread.General discussion and DIY are not the only threads where you can learn,and for us member's who are not experts this is where you experts made us feel more comfortable in the off topic area..How are you going to draw more people to this place? It won't happen with requiring everyone to be experts.Let's say there is one expert for every ten members here now,let's ban everyone that is not an expert,what is left? JBL Lansing Hertiage, A Place For Expert Discussion Only!!!!!! Please Leave your Thoughts at home.
Between the extremes
One of my favorite quotes is from Clint/Dirty Harry:
A man's got to know his limitations.
Another is from Grace/Jefferson Airplane:
F--k you, I do what I want.
I try to live between those two guidelines, and they work for me even here on the LH Forums.
I rarely post in the technical forum because I don't know anything useful to contribute, unless someone needs a simple measurement or a specific fact that I might have at my disposal.
I post only slightly more often in the DIY forum, because, again, I have little of substance to contribute. Often I ask questions.
In the marketplace and general forums, I post a lot because I have some useful information and a lot of experience that comes to bear that's relevant to these content areas.
With the off topic and forum issues areas, I get in a lot of licks because those are often driven by opinion and informed speculation. We've all got plenty of that. Plus, they can be fun.
So, recognizing my limitations, I try to respect the reasons why technical and DIY forums exist; play to my relative strengths in the marketplace and general forums, and pretty much let it rip in the other two areas if I'm interested in the topics. Anyone who doesn't like it can PM me, moderators can delete my posts or complete threads, or any member can respond in kind in the thread itself.
In that respect, I'll keep posting what I want, when I want, in those two areas, because it's my perception that it's okay by our hosts, or they'll tell me if it isn't. I'll respect their limitations, and if I don't like it, leave. My feelings will not be hurt.
Obviously, I'm not a present or former JBL employee (or an employee of Apple Computer--Hi, Bo!
I'm a JBL aficionado and enthusiast. Period. As long as I know who I am and what I can give and take from the forums, and as long as no one looks down on me for what I am or tries to dampen my enthusiasm with pettiness or unnecessary rules or sanctions, then this is a great place to be.
I like it here; I give what I can to the discussions and to the coffers; I plan to keep on being me as long as I'm permitted to.
Kudos to Don, John, et al for providing such a B-I-G place with such a W-I-D-E embrace. I cherish the freedom you give.
Kudos to Widget for bringing this up and to Rob and Giskard for their more fundamentalist views. I respect them and appreciate their contributions; I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this.
To me, theirs is a concept I understand, but one I am not desirous of embracing. So, you'll just have to live with me the way I am.
Out.
Jeez... I could have posted those two lines. I am sure some think I do post too often. To you I apologize.Originally Posted by duaneage
I would hope that all newbies feel welcome to post... ask questions, tell tales of successes or failures... point out a great deal in the Marketplace, whatever strikes you as appropriate. When I first found this forum and was a newbie I was made to feel welcome and I hope others will also join and post and not just lurk.
I am sorry that you felt compelled to post that. I don't think anyone is saying that you must be an EE or physicist to participate. I am no EXPERT, and yet having hung around here quite awhile I feel perfectly comfortable posting recommendations about things I know, and I enjoy learning new things from others that have had different experiences, or have knowledge that I do not.
You know, that is fine from my standpoint. I was bringing up a point and trying to explain my take on it. I get the feeling that many, rather than saying "Dude, you are off base!" have taken it as some sort of attack.Kudos to Widget for bringing this up and to Rob and Giskard for their more fundamentalist views. I respect them and appreciate their contributions; I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this.
To me, theirs is a concept I understand, but one I am not desirous of embracing. So, you'll just have to live with me the way I am.
It certainly wasn't meant that way. However if you want to post locker room jokes and pictures, knock yourselves out. We live in a reasonably free and reasonably tacky country.
Widget
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