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Thread: Proper drivers for intended applications"A constant theme

  1. #16
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    click link in my post above...

  2. #17
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    [QUOTE=hapy._.face]
    Quote Originally Posted by Giskard
    ...Who are they? By God we'll give them what for! We'll straighten them out forthwith![/QUOTE
    Quote Originally Posted by Giskard
    ]Giskard- Not you!! Your manner is always mild, pleasant, and forthcoming. Besides you don't know much about this sort of thing anyways.
    Oh! I know it's not me silly! We never see ourselves the way others see us!
    Yes, I always try to be mild, pleasant and forthcoming and appreciate that the endeavor isn't lost on others.
    No, I don't know very much about any of this stuff. I'd feel much more comfortable discussing carpets and drapes but this is where they put me. :dont-know

  3. #18
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    Now that's a nice post!!

  4. #19
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
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    Humor

    No, I don't know very much about any of this stuff. I'd feel much more comfortable discussing carpets and drapes but this is where they put me.


    Now that is funny!



    Ron

  5. #20
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    Quote by MikeBaker: '...There doesn't seem to be much wisdom in bucking JBL's efforts and results, particularly with drivers. There is more going into the design and refinement of JBL drivers than I think most people are aware of.'



    I have no choice but to believe this is true. Simply put- I'm not knowledgeable enough about it argue with you. I do understand product and marketing very well, and I know that JBL didn't exactly conform to design excellence in every project. Budget, time, manufacturing, and aesthetics all play a role in the process when putting something together and it's easy for a beginner to look at this and say "Oh, I have no manufacturing budget. I have all the time in the world. And I will spend extra effort to make it look good" (for example) "Why not put together a group of celebrated drivers for a dream system?" As a newbie- I see a lot of threads dedicated to crossover manipulation, driver substitution, and build from scratch projects and I want to jump in with my armload of toys (too) yet armed with little information on how they will work together. It's also easy to see that JBL made inferior cabinets sometimes. There is no question- these can be upgraded. JBL also made poor choices in crossover components (from what I gather). And (dare I say it) JBL made terrible speakers (at times). I do appreciate the advice on letting duty specific drivers play the role they were designed to do. That makes perfect since to me. (again- "thank you"). But what I don't subscribe to is the fact I cannot make a FAR superior system using the same drivers (properly grouped of course) when I have none of the constraints that limited JBl to make the overall product superlative in the first place. Correct?


  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by hapy._.face
    But what I don't subscribe to is the fact I cannot make a FAR superior system using the same drivers (properly grouped of course) when I have none of the constraints that limited JBl to make the overall product superlative in the first place. Correct?
    Possibly. I think you've posted a reasonable list of areas for potential improvement, e.g. enclosure design and construction, network components - both quality and empirical changes due to different enclosure designs and construction methods. Also active filters.

  7. #22
    norealtalent
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    Quote Originally Posted by hapy._.face
    Partial... But what I don't subscribe to is the fact I cannot make a FAR superior system using the same drivers (properly grouped of course) when I have none of the constraints that limited JBl to make the overall product superlative in the first place. Correct?
    VERY correct. Click here to see the result of similar ambitions...
    http://www.westlakeaudio.com/Speakers/speakers.html

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by norealtalent
    VERY correct. Click here to see the result of similar ambitions...
    http://www.westlakeaudio.com/Speakers/speakers.html
    Um, I hate to bust a bubble or two but there's a wee bit of difference between the guys at Westlake and the guys here.

  9. #24
    norealtalent
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giskard
    Um, I hate to bust a bubble or two but there's a wee bit of difference between the guys at Westlake and the guys here.
    Yah, but we got you on our side, I figure that kinda balances things out.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by norealtalent
    Yah, but we got you on our side, I figure that kinda balances things out.
    Not even close. Sorry!





    Well, ok, I can build a nicer looking physical network layout.
    But Mr. Widget can kick my butt in that area if he's of a mind to.
    But then again, anyone can if they're of a mind to.

  11. #26
    norealtalent
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giskard
    Not even close. Sorry!
    Talk about busting a bubble!!!

  12. #27
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    Damn! Westlake sure does make a pretty loudspeaker. They LOOK- good!!! And from what I heard (Thanks Dave!) They sound great! (are those disco cateyes on the tower series?)

    Looking at that site makes me want to break my pencil.

  13. #28
    norealtalent
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    Quote Originally Posted by hapy._.face
    Damn! Westlake sure does make a pretty loudspeaker. Are those disco cateyes on the tower series?? They LOOK- good!!! And from what I heard (Thanks Dave!) They sound great!

    Looking at that site makes me want to break my pencil.
    All good things come to those who wait my Friend...

  14. #29
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    Hello Hapy._.face

    Interesting Post

    "But what I don't subscribe to is the fact I cannot make a FAR superior system using the same drivers (properly grouped of course) when I have none of the constraints that limited JBl to make the overall product superlative in the first place. Correct?"

    First of all no one said it wasn't possible to do so. One way you won't get there is using the drivers outside their passbands or designed use. This includes recommended crossover slopes as well especially with compression drivers. I think that is the crux of the original post. This all goes back to good engineering and design practices. How a loudspeaker is voiced is subjective, the engineering required to get it there is not. As a DIY project you can do lot's of things that would not be marketable. So if you need an extra cubic foot or so you can do that and get better performance out of a woofer on the low end as an example. That said you really need to do your homework to even match performance of an original design on something like 4344/4345 as an example. To try to improve on that is no simple task. You can't just throw a bunch of drivers in the cabinet, substitute a different horn and compression driver turn it on and think it's a done deal. First off what is your reference???? For you to appreciate what you are trying to emulate you need to have a starting point. That is why it's always good to start with an original design and work from there. You can't very well say you have a better mousetrap without every building or using the original. If your serious either purchase or clone your baseline system so you have a frame of reference for comparison.

    Rob

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robh3606
    You can't just throw a bunch of drivers in the cabinet, substitute a different horn and compression driver turn it on and think it's a done deal.
    Yes, swapping horns/lenses willy nilly without fully understanding them and making the required system changes is no different than buying a lottery ticket.

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