What do Audiophiles really hear...?

[Rolf]

Actually the original audiophile vanished along with vinyl.

Are you sure? Before this statement some said that the "real audiophile" vanished along with the introduction of stereo.

Some other people said that the change from tubes to transistors was the "kill".

What will be the next? From cd/dvd to ?? was what vanished the audiophile.

Really people, why does any new tecnology make some say this?

If you can't hear that the "pops", "klicks" is gone on a cd vs a vinyl record, something must be wrong with your ears.

I am not saying all CD's sound better, but a good recorded CD is far better than a vinyl recording.

Rolf

[boputnam]

This fellow seems to like vinyl.

Yea, but he looks damned lonely in the solo pilot chair.

I never, ever wanna get that far-gone. That is audiomasturbation. Egregious self-indulgence. Stupid (IMO...). Wires on mini-stanchions, fer crissake...

Audio is to share, to enjoy with and expose to others, particularly when we here learn how to configure and set-up a system that honours the source material. Our "chance of success" (a term from my industry...) is far higher than that of our neighbors...

[jim3860]

Thank you. Ian...you understand what I'm saying....because you're not the typical audiophile and understand that the limitations of analog recording have been surpassed by the ever evolving and advancing of no-contact-surface distortion digital recording technology.

Nowhere did I say anything about MP3's or 16 bit...go back and read my comments fellas...I said 96Khz and above sampling rates which translates into 48Khz upperbandwidth which surpasses the very best analog...period.

I also said some CD's suck and so do some vinyl records...depends on who is at the controls and in the studio.

I'm done with this.

I agree. the best albums ive ever heard were on DVD AUDIO and SACD. there might be vinyl setups that rival these formats. I have never had the pleasure of listening to them though, so i cant judge them. Without a doubt as i said in an earlier post, there is no cd - hdcd - xrcd -xrcd24- of the same album that will sound as good as a DVD AUDIO - SACD recording. period.

[hapy._.face]

If you can't hear that the "pops", "klicks" is gone on a cd vs a vinyl record, something must be wrong with your ears. I am not saying all CD's sound better, but a good recorded CD is far better than a vinyl recording.
Rolf

Man, you simply HAVE NOT heard a modern day record player. In fact I bet few on this forum have. Those that have know what I'm sayin here. Vinyl has been evolving NONSTOP. Unfortunately, many people stopped listening to them. Get to know what a nice, updated vinyl playback system sounds like and is capable of before you make such a sweeping statement. This is not a fight- I'm simply trying to get you into a good shop where you can hear first hand the difference vinyl has made in terms of quality and the ability to reproduce music with amazing emotion. You may change your mind....

[Ian Mackenzie]

Rolf,

It depends.


We are not talking about DJ crap singles or 78's.

About 20 odd years ago Lin almost reinvented the audiophile vinyl world.

If you are talking about Direct to Disk or a nice 180 gram pressing playing throught a Sumiko Black Bird Moving Coil cartridge and an Aleph Pearl ..."I dont think so"

I while back I compared a direct disk with the exact same recording on CD. The CD version was totally crap. This is a direct comparison of what "the media can and cannot do".

I think the discussion starts and ends there.

Only those who have got the goods know!

[Rolf]

I love the crystal clear sound of a cd and a cd also needs to be handled properly. I have cd's over 5 years old that play just as good as they did when I burnt them.

Me too love the crystal clear sound, but on my system a burnt cd will never play, as they sound bad. Don't tell me it's just about bits and bytes. That is wrong. The only time a burned cd will play at my system is if the original vinyl is impossible to get on a cd. ... ok, in the car to...as I do not wnat to use originals there. What is the point anyway using originals in a car?

[Rolf]

This fellow seems to like vinyl.

Yes, itis very good that somebody collect and take care of tne vinyl.

Rolf

[jim3860]

Yea, but he looks damned lonely in the solo pilot chair.

I never, ever wanna get that far-gone. That is audiomasturbation. Egregious self-indulgence. Stupid (IMO...). Wires on mini-stanchions, fer crissake...

Audio is to share, to enjoy with and expose to others, particularly when we here learn how to configure and set-up a system that honours the source material. Our "chance of success" (a term from my industry...) is far higher than that of our neighbors...

HAHA. YES I happen to think this is a classic case of someone trying to impress someone else, with how much money he can spend.On the other hand who knows? if i had more money than sense I might do the same thing. Good thing I dont have much money huh!! Maybe he"s trying to get away from Wifey in that solo chair JUST KIDDIN.

[hapy._.face]

HAHA. YES I happen to think this is a classic case of someone trying to impress someone else, with how much money he can spend.On the other hand who knows? if i had more money than sense I might do the same thing. Good thing I dont have much money huh!!

You see it don't you, Jim?? I think your statement points out that his 'hobby' is in direct proportion to his income. Now, let's all think about how much our 'hobby' sets us back, and how deep we dig for our upgrades in proportion to our incomes. Now (final thought) imagine yourself a multi-millionaire.. See? Anyone can end up like this-

[Rolf]

Man, you simply HAVE NOT heard a modern day record player. In fact I bet few on this forum have. Those that have know what I'm sayin here. Vinyl has been evolving NONSTOP. Unfortunately, many people stopped listening to them. Get to know what a nice, updated vinyl playback system sounds like and is capable of before you make such a sweeping statement. This is not a fight- I'm simply trying to get you into a good shop where you can hear first hand the difference vinyl has made in terms of quality and the ability to reproduce music with amazing emotion. You may change your mind....

First, excuse me for english spellig errors.

Very well. Let us take this from scratc. Do you know what a pick up have to do? The arm with the tiny little needle on must go go left to right and up and down. The needle passes thru "a wall", and is bound to make some noise passing it, even without any movment. This will give noise as the needle is in contact with the vinyl. At a 40Hz tone the needle must go from left to right 40 times a second, without moving the house it is fitted to. At the same time it must move up and down to reproduce a stereofonic sound without moving the house.

In pracitce this is impossible, so the house moves as well, making it's own sound, puting it into the pre-pre-amp, withc increases it to the RIAA, then to the pre-amp, then to the power amp. This noise will NOT disapear.

Regarding to what I have heard of modern analog equipment, and I believe I have heard some of the best, and compared to my Burmaster CD it is far beyond.

Rolf

[scott fitlin]

there is no cd - hdcd - xrcd -xrcd24- of the same album that will sound as good as a DVD AUDIO - SACD recording. period.

I agree that SACD does sound great, as good as the best vinyl, and the cleanliness of digital; no ticks, pops, scrtatches, etc.

BUT, where is SACD today? A few titles available from " Boutique " music stores. No real mass marketing of pop, dance or other current music available!

SACD really is sonically the best digital format, but just like Betamax of the 70,s, where is it? Todays generation is going MP3, iPod, and DVD!

Gotta love Sony, no baloney!

[Rolf]

BUT, where is SACD today?

Yes...Right, Where?

Rolf

[hapy._.face]

First, excuse me for english spellig errors.
Very well. Let us take this from scratc. Do you know what a pick up have to do? The arm with the tiny little needle on must go go left to right and up and down. The needle passes thru "a wall", and is bound to make some noise passing it, even without any movment. This will give noise as the needle is in contact with the vinyl. At a 40Hz tone the needle must go from left to right 40 times a second, without moving the house it is fitted to. At the same time it must move up and down to reproduce a stereofonic sound without moving the house. In pracitce this is impossible, so the house moves as well, making it's own sound, puting it into the pre-pre-amp, withc increases it to the RIAA, then to the pre-amp, then to the power amp. This noise will NOT disapear.Regarding to what I have heard of modern analog equipment, and I believe I have heard some of the best, and compared to my Burmaster CD it is far beyond.
Rolf

Well first off- congrats on owning a Burmester CD player. That's a very nice (yet expensive) component.

I understand fully what you are saying here (your english is fine)- but the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages (in my opinion). Obviously, the theory behind vinyl playback does not sit well with you, and perhaps is destroying your ability to give it a fair shake. I will say this with full conviction: NO CD PLAYER CAN MATCH VINYL FOR DEPTH OF STAGE DURING PLAYBACK. I believe this 100%. It's my opinion. I will recant only when CDs catch up (which they may). Read this entire thread and we have surmised that taste is subjective. Vinyl has qualities (for me) that I hold in very high regard when enjoying a recording. Obviously, CDs have qualities that you hold in high regard. I guess we can agree to disagree. No harm in that.

[Ian Mackenzie]

First, excuse me for english spellig errors.

Very well. Let us take this from scratc. Do you know what a pick up have to do? The arm with the tiny little needle on must go go left to right and up and down. The needle passes thru "a wall", and is bound to make some noise passing it, even without any movment. This will give noise as the needle is in contact with the vinyl. At a 40Hz tone the needle must go from left to right 40 times a second, without moving the house it is fitted to. At the same time it must move up and down to reproduce a stereofonic sound without moving the house.

In pracitce this is impossible, so the house moves as well, making it's own sound, puting it into the pre-pre-amp, withc increases it to the RIAA, then to the pre-amp, then to the power amp. This noise will NOT disapear.

Regarding to what I have heard of modern analog equipment, and I believe I have heard some of the best, and compared to my Burmaster CD it is far beyond.

Rolf

Rolf,

Just for Grins.....

I don't mean to disagree but the physics say yes and actually the bass is the strong suite of vinyl. The problem is actually at the other extreme.(cc John Eargle.) Each to his own in the end.

Funnily enough 4343's actually sound better on SOA vinyl. Probably because a lot of stuff was mastered on them. I imagine Westakes would sound vastly superior while 4430s (the 2344) put a grin on your face no matter what you play.

Edit or is that Edirol; Remind me to fire the house maid, there's dust on that headshell

[jim3860]

I agree that SACD does sound great, as good as the best vinyl, and the cleanliness of digital; no ticks, pops, scrtatches, etc.

BUT, where is SACD today? A few titles available from " Boutique " music stores. No real mass marketing of pop, dance or other current music available!

SACD really is sonically the best digital format, but just like Betamax of the 70,s, where is it? Todays generation is going MP3, iPod, and DVD!

Gotta love Sony, no baloney!

Sad but true. I went to a sam goodys, the other day and asked the sales person a young man. Where the DVD AUDIO - SACD Titles where kept. He looked at me, like I had lost my mind. SACD what? he finally stammered out. I explained what the 2 formats were to him. He said I dont think we carry those he replied. I ask about concert dvds with DTS tracks. Same response. Never heard of it either. The sad thing is as long as the general public is not aware such formats even exist, let alone how they sound. They are doomed to fail. It is mainly due to the fear of recording studios that people will start to make perfect copies of these formats. And the greed of the copyright holders. that want to charge anyone using these new technologys outrageous sums. that have kept these out of the mainstream. Like hi def TV, Everyone is afraid that people will make perfect HI DEF DVD copys. Its took this many years for them to decide what sort of cable will be used to listen to and watch these formats. Napster really hurt the audio and videophile world. FOR Those who are intrested in SACD titles go to WWW.SA-CD.NET supposedly they list all 3600 or so titles available. REGARDS JIM