What do Audiophiles really hear...?

[Mr. Widget]

They will decide what kind of quality you get because it's more profitable for them. And they'll keep deciding what we get, because we keep paying for absolute crap, and we don't do enough about it to change. When more than half of the voting public doesn't vote, you'll get what you don't vote for. And if we keep not voting by not withholding our hard earned dollars for their crap product...well...you get what you pay for. I, personally, don't buy much new music anymore because not much new music interests me...must be because I'm way over 30.

So vote! Buy SACDs or DVD Audio discs... if enough people did the bean counters... who are good at counting beans and little else will see that regular CDs get MP3ed and downloaded by the freeloaders... you know who you are... and the high res digital actually gets bought. I just checked and Leap of Faith isn't available as SACD, but a greatest hits album with at least some of that material is... go buy it... Vote!

I am frequently surprised to hear people mention so much of the music from 20-30 years ago that they are still listening to. I put that stuff on to from time to time, but I find plenty of cool new stuff is out there. Spend some time at a Virgin Mega Store or the like or better yet a small mom and pop where they actually know music and take a listen.


Widget

[jim3860]

So vote! Buy SACDs or DVD Audio discs... if enough people did the bean counters... who are good at counting beans and little else will see that regular CDs get MP3ed and downloaded by the freeloaders... you know who you are... and the high res digital actually gets bought. I just checked and Leap of Faith isn't available as SACD, but a greatest hits album with at least some of that material is... go buy it... Vote!

I am frequently surprised to hear people mention so much of the music from 20-30 years ago that they are still listening to. I put that stuff on to from time to time, but I find plenty of cool new stuff is out there. Spend some time at a Virgin Mega Store or the like or better yet a small mom and pop where they actually know music and take a listen.


Widget

Agreed. I just bought a john hiatt album master of disater on SACD not because i particularly like him. But it did win listeners choice award in the last sacd dvd audio awards. i Just love great musicAlso there is lots of great albums avilable from the 70s and 80s hotel california the album and dark side of themoon are both available on DVD AUDIO eagles - pink floyd.

[edgewound]

. I just checked and Leap of Faith isn't available as SACD, but a greatest hits album with at least some of that material is... go buy it... Vote!


Widget

I did buy it...in 1994 when it was new....and it still listens well. My point was that CD's and digital can be done well...by people that choose to do things well. I've got a number of great Jazz CD's that are spectacular. Hip Hop and Dance/R&B doesn't fit that bill for me...and I certainly know it doesn't for you too...and doesn't require hi res systems to make the youngins' buy it...or iTune it. So yeah...I already do vote. The great recording studios are fading away and so is lots of great artistic talent that used to be more cultivated by those same studios and record labels. Some see this as a positive for the indie artists 'cause there's less record label control...but geez...I dunno.

[scott fitlin]

I did buy it...in 1994 when it was new....and it still listens well. My point was that CD's and digital can be done well...by people that choose to do things well. I've got a number of great Jazz CD's that are spectacular. Hip Hop and Dance/R&B doesn't fit that bill for me...and I certainly know it doesn't for you too...and doesn't require hi res systems to make the youngins' buy it...or iTune it. So yeah...I already do vote. The great recording studios are fading away and so is lots of great artistic talent that used to be more cultivated by those same studios and record labels. Some see this as a positive for the indie artists 'cause there's less record label control...but geez...I dunno.

IMHO, the truth really is the fact that the music labels, and audio manufacturers found out they really could get away with selling less than optimum items, and that they could profit considerably more and people didnt care because it was convenient, and easy to use.

The fact is the once great recording studios are fading away and the people that have and had the knowledge of what makes music really come to life are also becoming extinct.

Music of the past is great, it always will be, but I also like to look to the future, and as Widget said, there are some cool things out there, but my problem is I find ALOT of cool music that was recorded like shit!

Label and industry people tell me no one hears the difference! They say this is what they want, I say they want what the industry tells them to want! I know I hear the differences, and most of the time, dont like it!

Here in NYC, quite a few radio stations that used to play NEW music, went to oldies, classic, and 60,s 70,s and 80,s formats! And they have much listener appeal! I think the industry doesnt really pay attention to whats really happening and just goes ahead and forces what THEY want to do, down the publics throats!

Its kind of like this forum in a way! Vintage JBL blew up out of this world on ebay, as did alot of vintage audio, everyone is discovering the satisfaction of yesterdays audio engineering gems, you would think some of the bean counters at major audio companies would take notice and try to have capitalized on manufacturing a " Legacy " product or two!

Then when you talk to someone that works for a company you once used to love the products from, they tell you they cant make that anymore, its too costly to manufacture! And thats when you actually get to talk to someone that actually knows a thing or two! The other side is when you talk to a company rep who doesnt even know about the things their company made, and doesnt know as much about audio as you do!

I wouldnt mind digital audio if it was as good as it was supposed to be! Mass Market digital audio SUCKS! SACD is good, but I want TODAYS music recorded in high quality formats! And speaker companies that manufacture speakers that sound great by todays or yesterdays or any days standards!

BTW, I DID VOTE! And we still got Bush anyway, and look what he did!

[scott fitlin]

How come the industries didnt mind giving us Hi Rez digital video and film formats?

[edgewound]

How come the industries didnt mind giving us Hi Rez digital video and film formats?

Because that's an easier sell to the general public...in the big box stores...doesn't matter how noisy the store is...they can show a great picture if they want to....not so easy with audio....is it?

BTW....we were talking about voting for products with our dollars....not Presidents. We've discovered it's not a good idea to go there .

[SUPERBEE]

One simple rule: When I hear something I like, I buy it.

So today I own vintage Mac and JBL. I have owned the same main system for 16 years and have never "upgraded" , "modified", or "added on" anything.

I think I am gonna go blast the Mono LP pressing of the Byrds "Younger Than Yesterday" and have a beer or 7

[scott fitlin]

Because that's an easier sell to the general public...in the big box stores...doesn't matter how noisy the store is...they can show a great picture if they want to....not so easy with audio....is it?

BTW....we were talking about voting for products with our dollars....not Presidents. We've discovered it's not a good idea to go there .

Yeah, I know!

But my point is, once upon a time, we wouldnt have settled for some of the garbage they churn out these days as the latest and greatest.

To me, the simple fact that vinyl is still around, and there is still debate over analog -vs- digital tells me NOT everyone accepts what the corporate bean counters tell us, and maybe there is truth to what we say! Analog and vinyl were supposed to be completely extinct by this time.

I dont think audio is really a hard sell at all, because there are always people who have money looking for the BEST, and/or looking for status symbols for their home to represent their financial achievements! Companies like B & W arent making 801,s for nothing!

Or the fact that vintage JBL and Altec are sought after so highly, even with companies around making products today utilizing technology that should surpass the old stuff.

IMHO, digital audio, at least the digital audio thats readily available still has a long ways to go before its really good enough!

[Robh3606]

'Because that's an easier sell to the general public...in the big box stores...doesn't matter how noisy the store is...they can show a great picture if they want to....not so easy with audio....is it?"

It's a different world from the 70's early 80's. Big box stores have tried to take over in all aspects of retail goods. It's only recently Best Buy has dropped in the Magnolia rooms into the stores seeing there is a market for higher end gear. This provides a place where you can really get a half way decent audition away from the noisey open set-ups. Just like all the smaller stores we grew up with. That to me is hope that there are more people out there.

Rob

[scott fitlin]

It's a different world from the 70's early 80's. Big box stores have tried to take over in all aspects of retail goods. It's only recently Best Buy has dropped in the Magnolia rooms into the stores seeing there is a market for higher end gear. This provides a place where you can really get a half way decent audition away from the noisey open set-ups. Just like all the smaller stores we grew up with. That to me is hope that there are more people out there.

Rob

There are MORE people out there!

Just like people can feel the difference when driving a BMW or Mercedes top of the line automobile, they can hear the difference between good and mediocre audio gear.

If you give them the choice, there are people who can afford to buy good stuff, and will if they are offered the chance when they hear it!

[hapy._.face]

If you give them the choice, there are people who can afford to buy good stuff, and will if they are offered the chance when they hear it!

Scott, you seem like a very cool guy to me. So it is with slight regret that I disagree with you. I think the majority of Americans are overstuffed swine when it comes to buying habits. If it's slop we buy- slop we are served. If you are living in this day, and you've money to spend, and you don't know what your choices are: you deserve total crap. Period. Don't fool yourself into thinking those magnolia rooms are serving up a better meal either. It could be rehashed sh!t with glitter on it. That's even more of a sucker punch to the wallet. The really good stuff is usually harder to find- but worth the effort. IME. FORTUNATELY- I'm excited to see forum members that understand the value of purchase power. That makes me feel optimistic. TD, Edgewound, Superbee, Mr. Widget, and others pretty much hit the homerun on this issue. 'Spend wisely'. I'm so happy to discover JBL and its value just before every incestuous brother is left fighting for the last crumb of the good stuff. How much was a used McIntosh amp 10 years ago? Same amp today? I say buy all the JBL you can get your hands on before it's gone. I owe Giskard for ribbing me into fixing my L212's and giving them an audition before dismissing and selling. Great way to start. Now I'm buying JBL left and right.
If we keep clinging on to the good gear- I mean the really good gear- it's only a matter of time before companies will be forced to pull a better product out of the bag to compete with that market share. I'll be waiting. (It must be somewhat affordable, too. ) Same goes for digital recordings. I loved some of the SACD releases, problem was- where did they go? I bought them. Limited choices, but I gave that a shot. I was sad to watch that dwindle too. It's like the market is running full speed in opposite directions. wtf?

[scott fitlin]

Its ok to disagree, I feel the Magnolia rooms may not be the BEST place to look for upscale high quality goods, but its a start!

Not everyone is going to turn into one of us, thats a fact, but a few will! you might be surprised what people can hear, WHEN they hear well recorded music over a good system!

People that know a little bit, will do their homework, and seek out an audio shop that sells higher quality goods than your local Best Bull, or Circuit City have to offer!

There are high end shops around, but, some are good, and sell proper goods to fit the clients application and needs and wants. And some, as has always been the case, are thieves, and BS artists!

People really DO have to do their research, ask lots of questions, and go out, and actively listen at good audio shops, and some really do, others just go out and spend their money on whats flashiest, or the latest!

Others fell into great sound quite accidentally! They were looking for CHEAP audio, and got a good price on some OLD junk that no one wanted anymore, but it still worked so it was good enough, and to their surprise, they found out that OLD junk sounded great!

And then, there are those who really arent satisfied with what is currently available, and seek out quality, be it new or vintage! Look at tubes! Who ever would have thought tubes would come back into audio with such a vengeance? I cant tell you how many people I know who openly tell you they dont really know audio, and arent sure if they can hear what IT is WE are talking about, hear some great speakers driven by some tubes, and go completely GAGA over them!





But there are people out there!

[hapy._.face]

OK. Now we agree 100%

[jim3860]

Its ok to disagree, I feel the Magnolia rooms may not be the BEST place to look for upscale high quality goods, but its a start!

Not everyone is going to turn into one of us, thats a fact, but a few will! you might be surprised what people can hear, WHEN they hear well recorded music over a good system!

People that know a little bit, will do their homework, and seek out an audio shop that sells higher quality goods than your local Best Bull, or Circuit City have to offer!

There are high end shops around, but, some are good, and sell proper goods to fit the clients application and needs and wants. And some, as has always been the case, are thieves, and BS artists!

People really DO have to do their research, ask lots of questions, and go out, and actively listen at good audio shops, and some really do, others just go out and spend their money on whats flashiest, or the latest!

Others fell into great sound quite accidentally! They were looking for CHEAP audio, and got a good price on some OLD junk that no one wanted anymore, but it still worked so it was good enough, and to their surprise, they found out that OLD junk sounded great!

And then, there are those who really arent satisfied with what is currently available, and seek out quality, be it new or vintage! Look at tubes! Who ever would have thought tubes would come back into audio with such a vengeance? I cant tell you how many people I know who openly tell you they dont really know audio, and arent sure if they can hear what IT is WE are talking about, hear some great speakers driven by some tubes, and go completely GAGA over them!





But there are people out there!

Yes i agree on a couple of accounts. 1 being that people need to be exposed. when i first started searching for a sound system i had no idea what to buy or how to go about it. i started looking at sears sams club etc for home theater in a box. luckily enough a friend at work said you dont want that crap, and i said huh it sounds good te me and its convient everyting is there 5 speakers receiver dvd playeretc why not? well he invited me over to his house. WOW what a eye opener or in my case a ear opener. i truthfully didnt know how music could sound till then. he had a pair of paradigm refernce 100s v2. a 200w adcom amp a adcom preamp a sony sacd player. I really didnt want to leave. i could have listened for days he asked how much i wanted to spend, and reccomeneded a decent receiver. JBL L100ts and L80ts for rear or side surround. I spent what my target budget was. i got a decent sony receiver for $800.00 that listed for $1500.00. A pair of L100ts A pair of L80t3s A pair of L112s for center and rear surround. all for around $2000.00. $600.00 plus of that was shipping. And i havent looked back. am always looking to upgrade now. point is i didnt know until i was exposed to decent audio that there was any real difference. so magnolia stores are great we need more audiophiles out there we need our voices heard maybe if there is enough of us the music industry will start to produce quality digital recordings to the masses

[Merkin Berfel]

We audio fans got screwed 25 years ago when CD came out and we have a few years to go before the dust settles. Audio was mastered at 96k back then and sold at 44.1. Vinyl had it all over CD's for sound quality but it could not survive as a mass-market product. The music-industrial complex has an obsolete business model and they're having a hard time letting go of it. There will not be a readily-available Hi-Def audio format as long as sales depend on packaging and shipping product. The number of audiophile consumers is too small. Which format do you want? 2-channel? 5.1? 7.1? DVD? How can you expect a store to carry them all? iTunes and the like are the model for how we'll be getting our music in the not so far-off future. I'm not saying we'll be using 128k MP3 but downloading HD audio in FLAC right now is feasible. A 1gb download can take a while and 4 or 9gb are about out of the question at this point but two years from now it may be a different story. I have no problem with hard-drive based audio storage. What's the difference between bits on a hard drive and bits on optical media? If you want portability you transfer your bits to a flash drive and play them in your car or a friends house. If you want to spend money you invest in a high-dollar D/A converter and you can argue about the merits of one or another the same as you do now.