The King of Bass is Dead, Long Live the New King

[norealtalent]

I'm not sure these folks from Indian River are a good example to use, unless you were being sarcastic.
:dont-know



Apparently they don't know the literacy convention associated with acronyms, in which Office of Technology Assessment would become OTA, not OAT. Seems the US government at least gets it:

http://www.access.gpo.gov/ota/

Definately being sarcastic , couldn't help myself.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Thanks guys but I was not trying to stir the pot!

I just wanted to encourge thinking on the same page as to where and when posts are most appropriate.

It ocurred to me that ideally to do good measurements, a very large flat baffle would be required to measure both drivers and just alter the rear enclosure and tuning. Whereas if different enclosures of the correct volume where used for each drvier, this would without doubt cause a variation on the free field microphone measurements.

My earlier reflection on JBL testings was that they used an open field for such measurements or the roof of the factory at 8500 Bal Bvd.

Ian

[Steve Gonzales]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I have a real problem with this thread's premise... Here we are comparing a subwoofer to a remarkably well balanced woofer. Other than seeing "as measured" that the subwoofer does indeed have greater output we really don't know anything about the relative quality of the two drivers in question. You probably could get a cheapo no-name sub from Parts Express and have similar results... that doesn't mean that it is a better woofer.

That said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the W15GTI is a better subwoofer... the point is that the 2235 isn't a subwoofer. It is a woofer that is so capable that JBL found it acceptable to use it all the way up to 1000Hz in one application and use it as a sub in another... very few drivers are that capable.

Widget

Cool response Widget, I feel the same about the 076

[norealtalent]

Cool response Widget, I feel the same about the 076

Now tell us what you really feel

[Steve Gonzales]

I think that what Mr Widget said makes a great deal of sense in regards to what a bunch of numbers say compared to the reality of what a transducer actually sounds like.

[Mr. Widget]

I think that what Mr Widget said makes a great deal of sense in regards to what a bunch of numbers say compared to the reality of what a transducer actually sounds like.

Hi Steve... no flame suit required. If you go back and read the infamous ragged posts, you'll see that I never said that one sounded better than the other or that one was clearly superior to the other. I think that message got lost somewhere along the way... I have always advocated listening as the final test.

Here is the quote from that thread where in my mind the emphasis was at the end of the statement, but I guess you thought I was focused on the first half.

I will audition them at some point. While curves do not lie, they don't tell the whole story.

Funny thing is that I still haven't listened to my 076s... I do intend to one of these days, but it is down on my list. At present I am not using any ring radiators.


Widget

[4313B]

Well guys, the results are in. Comparable testing of the W15GTI vs a 2205 recently remagnetized and reconed (in Dec 2005) as a 2235 show the W15GTI the clear and present winner in the reproduction of bass. Furthermore, the W15GTI has a more extended high end.

Both speakers are in the same enclosures and there is no reason that the results wouldn't be directly comparable.

It is also interesting to note that the W15GTI has a nice "hump" at 60 Hz whereas at that point the 2235 is starting to loose ground. From my experience with WinISD, I recognize that with the W15GTI, this hump could easily be smoothed out by further lowering the tuning of the cabinet which would further help the W15GTI go lower, and flatter.

Please read the following documents so you will have a better understanding of what a W15GTi is.

Page 3 of the owner's manual might be helpful:

W15GTi Owner's Manual

The technical data sheet is helpful as well:

W15GTi Technical Data

Using the W15Gti in SPL Competition

Nice (?) hump at 60 Hz - Using BB6P this particular transducer would like to see a 6.5 to 9 cubic foot vented volume behind it with an 18 to 20 Hz tuning frequency. Resulting group delay is terrible. It can be seen by inspection that this transducer is extremely well suited to small sealed enclosures. In an automotive environment the resulting transducer/enclosure system automatically EQ's quite well.

With BB6P it can be seen that the 2235H would like to see a 3 to 6.5 cubic foot vented volume behind it with a 22 to 30 Hz tuning frequency.

Compared to the W15GTi, the 2235H has a more powerful motor, a rising response, and significantly greater efficiency. The W15GTi is not a direct substitute for a 2235H in systems such as the 4355 or 4430. I would not be surprised if the average person thought the W15GTi "sounded better" in a B380 enclosure.

[Titanium Dome]

Maybe I'll try that. I think the B380 cab is deep enough.

Where's that yardstick I got at the hardware store?

Should I stuff that hole thingy?

[4313B]

Naturally you would try it both ways. See what you think.

[johnaec]

The technical data sheet is helpful as well:

W15GTi Technical Data

That curve for the W15GTI in the recommended 4 cu.ft. cabinet tuned to 28 hz looks pretty good. Did you check the group delay for that, or just the larger 6.5 - 9 cu.ft.? (I guess I can fire up BB6P myself...)

John

[4313B]

It does? You like those thumpers eh?

Just the larger volumes as per BB6P.