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Thread: newbie: 2226H and 2426H DIY, thanks!

  1. #1
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    Smile newbie: 2226H and 2426H DIY, thanks!

    Hi everybody, this is my first post here, though I´ve been visiting the forum from some time ago.

    Some months ago I tried the lansing plunge and bought a pair of A7s: 828 cabinets, 515-8G woofers, 511B horns, 808 compression drivers and 1631A active crossover w/500hz module.

    I do like some things that these speakers do very well: dinamics, huge sound, presence, etc

    However, there are other aspects that make them sound like a 1970 movie (that´s what they were intended to ...) and I think that are not up to modern hifi standards, in particular, a shout around 1-2 khz and one-note-bass from 100 hz down

    I plan to do all the standard updates: brace the bass cabinet and horn, reduce the vent surface and tune it to 40 hz, damp the 511 horns, try a 800-1200 hz XO, maybe 902-8C drivers ...

    And here comes my question.

    2 audio buddies have listened to these A7s and suggest a different approach, to build a DIY classic combination, with JBL 2226H woofers and 2426H compression drivers

    they have the drivers as a spare and will borrow them for free, and the cabinets will be proffessionally done

    The target is to get strong and "flat" 35/40 hz to 16-18 khz, around 95 db sensitivity

    the idea is:
    3 - 3.5 ft3 reflex cabinet
    bass port tuned to 35-40 hz
    passive XO around 900-1100 hz
    no EQ
    this tractrix 350 horn: http://www.horns.pl/tractrix350.html

    they are sound engineers and know what they talk about
    however, as sound engineers, they have wooden ears (hey folks, if yoy read this, I´m just kidding, no offense here ... )

    As I live in a small corner of the world, I can´t listen to the stuff, and have many questions about this project:

    My amplifier is a 4 watt SET amp (Fi WE421)
    Shall I drive the 2226H with it?

    What about GPA 515 LF or 416-B woofers, instead of the 2226?

    How will the 2426 driver work with the tractrix 350 horn?
    Can I get "flat" 900-18000 kz to 95 db with it?

    Right now the 2426 have aftermarket diaphragms
    Is there a lot of difference between aftermarket, D8R2425 titanium and D8R2421 aluminium?

    For the price of 2421 aluminium diafragms I can buy brand new BMS 4552nd drivers, so what about BMS 4552nd compression drivers against 2426H?

    What about the XO point?
    maybe 40-900 is too much for the 2226 and 900-18000 too much for the 2246?

    Any help and ideas will be appreciated

    thank you very much in advance

  2. #2
    Senior Member Eaulive's Avatar
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    2226H and 2426H DIY



    this is a very common combination in PA, look for specs on JBL 4704 and 4725, that should give you some ideas.

    However don't expect deep low bass and UHF with this setup.
    My avatar: 4520 loaded with 2225H on E140 frames,
    1x 2202H on custom front loaded horn, 2x 2426 on 2370.

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    Hi, the 2426 will perform perfectly fine if you use the right crossover with equalization on the top end.

    Allan.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    2226 will be boomy, more so than a 2225. If you keep the A7 cabinet, you could tune it by blocking the lower opening and porting it to perhaps 40Hz. But don't expect to be flat to 35Hz. BTW I wonder what would happen if a 2235 was used in an A7 with BR porting? It won't be able to offer as much SPL as the 2225, but the sound will probably be more hifi. It'll go lower.

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    I have used 2235 and 2425 together and you can make them sound pretty good.

    Allan.

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    badman

    2226h and 2426h are both sweeeeeet drivers. 2226h wants a little bigger box, 4-5 cubes, tuned to 35-40hz. A couple dB at 50 goes a long way to having "oontz". The 2426h needs impedance compensation aplenty on a CD horn, but on tractrix, you can probably use parallel resistance for impedance compensation. http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/111...waveguides.htm

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    Thanks!

    Thanks!

    my main concerns are:

    1.- I don´t like high SPLs at home, just around 85-90 db average and maybe 100 db peaks, but even so, can I drive the 2226 with just 4 watts, from a single WE421 SET amplifier?

    I have listened to some JBL woofers, fairly sensitive at 95db, but they needed punch from the amplifier to come alive, at least a 300B tube, a 2A3 did not the job ...

    Maybe these drivers are aimed to obtain high SPLs with powerful amplifiers in a PA environment, but not the best for low volume at home?

    2.- Are the replaceable aluminium D8R 2421 diaphragms, to be used with 2426H drivers, worth the price for hifi home use?

    please note that, with 4 watts at home, I should not overdrive aluminium diaphragms

    For the price of a pair of 2421 diaphragms, I can choose a whole bunch of new drivers: BC 250, BMS 4552-4550, Beyma CP380M, GPA altec 902 ... but I have not heard any of them ...

  8. #8
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manolito View Post
    1.- I don´t like high SPLs at home, just around 85-90 db average and maybe 100 db peaks, but even so, can I drive the 2226 with just 4 watts, from a single WE421 SET amplifier?
    This is why I was disgarded the 2226 as a candidate. It was designed for high SPL and to be fed by big amps. When filtered by a bass reflex enclosure, the ipper bass is cut and the sound is a bit smoother, but it won't go below 40Hz. While on the other end, the 2235 was designed for studio monitoring and home duty, offering the full bass spectrum, down to 20Hz.

    2235 drivers are rare, but if you could get some 2225 baskets, then those can be reconed into 100% 2235, except for the rear foil cap.

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    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee in Montreal View Post
    This is why I was disgarded the 2226 as a candidate.
    I agree... the 2226 has more in common with your old A7 system than it does with a modern Hi-Fi.

    The 2426 with the right horn and network can sound great... there are better choices, but the 2426 offers a very high bang for the buck quotient. The "right horn and the right network" however are not trivial and much care and research will be required.

    I will second the recommendation for the 2235H. I also really like the LE14H-3. Both of these woofers will not play as loudly as the 2226 and need a bit more power to achieve the same loudness as the 2226 and especially the A7, but they are both far more nuanced, neutral, and have a much deeper and better low end.


    Widget

  10. #10
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manolito View Post
    2.- Are the replaceable aluminium D8R 2421 diaphragms, to be used with 2426H drivers, worth the price for hifi home use?
    I would say yes, but it is a very expensive upgrade for a fairly subtle improvement. If you have a perfect pair of 2426s, I'd wait for the folks at Truextent to make beryllium diaphragms available for the 1" JBL family.


    Widget

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    I agree... the 2226 has more in common with your old A7 system than it does with a modern Hi-Fi.

    The 2426 with the right horn and network can sound great... there are better choices, but the 2426 offers a very high bang for the buck quotient. The "right horn and the right network" however are not trivial and much care and research will be required.

    I will second the recommendation for the 2235H. I also really like the LE14H-3. Both of these woofers will not play as loudly as the 2226 and need a bit more power to achieve the same loudness as the 2226 and especially the A7, but they are both far more nuanced, neutral, and have a much deeper and better low end.


    Widget
    I had the 2225H in the 4507 cabinet. Sounded great. The only drawback was that the system had to be played loud to get the woffer going. I changed to the 2235H in 2008. Day and night difference in the low bass at any volume level.
    The 2235H has about 10 dB greater output below 40 Hz.

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    Thanks again!

    well, it seems that the combination "JBL woofer + low power amplifier + low listening level" will not work

    so ... is there a safe bet out there?

    the specs should be like:
    - efficiency around 100 db
    - 35-1500 hz bandwith
    - to be used with low power amplifier, passive crossover, 2-way, reflex cabinet around 5 cft

    maybe, inside lansing tradition, an Altec 416-B?
    maybe other brands/models: beyma, BC, AE ... ?


    about the 2426 tweets: I´ll stick with the aftermarket diaphragms and wait for the new Berillium ones

  13. #13
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manolito View Post
    the specs should be like:
    - efficiency around 100 db
    Quote Originally Posted by manolito View Post
    well, it seems that the combination "JBL woofer + low power amplifier + low listening level" will not work...
    It isn't JBL, it is physics. There is no woofer made by anyone that has accurate deep bass and a sensitivity greater than 93dB-96db. Anyone who says their woofer will do what you are asking are stretching the truth or have a different definition of deep bass.

    There are countless "music lovers", "audiophiles", "audio enthusiasts" or whatever term you find is positive and not a damning title who believe their high efficiency system has great bass... and that is fine, but the fact is that it will not have a linear response. If you can accept some gross inaccuracies in response, and many avid listeners who are members of the previously mentioned groups above seem quite accepting of them, then you have a number of choices, but since you were not lulled into audio nirvana by the A7 sound, I'm going to guess you will not be happy with any of these high efficiency offerings.


    Widget

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Widget View Post
    It isn't JBL, it is physics. There is no woofer made by anyone that has accurate deep bass and a sensitivity greater than 93dB-96db. Anyone who says their woofer will do what you are asking are stretching the truth or have a different definition of deep bass.

    There are countless "music lovers", "audiophiles", "audio enthusiasts" or whatever term you find is positive and not a damning title who believe their high efficiency system has great bass... and that is fine, but the fact is that it will not have a linear response. If you can accept some gross inaccuracies in response, and many avid listeners who are members of the previously mentioned groups above seem quite accepting of them, then you have a number of choices, but since you were not lulled into audio nirvana by the A7 sound, I'm going to guess you will not be happy with any of these high efficiency offerings.


    Widget
    Estimated Mr Widget,no pun intended to JBL woofers, I get your point and truly welcome your advice.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Lee in Montreal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manolito View Post
    - to be used with low power amplifier, passive crossover, 2-way, reflex cabinet around 5 cft
    I am trying to understand the parameters around which you want to work.

    30 wpc amplifier. Okay. Why not?
    Two way system. Why not?
    Passive crossover? Sure.

    But perhaps deciding now what size cabinet is too early in the decision process. What could be tempting is using two 2235 woofers per bass reflex cabinet. One does full spectrum (20-800Hz) and the other only does 20-50Hz) for that deeper bass (and using two woofers will raise the efficiency by 3db. Then use a 2426H on top with a 2344 baby butt horn and you'll end up with a 4435 ;-). Build it. Have fun with it. If you want to improve, then build another one, and another one. After all, that's what most of us have been doing for a few decades. Personally, I think the most fun is in the process. Not with the end result...

    Each 2235 requires a 4,6cft volume. each one will give F3 at 36Hz, and this is why you'd use two woofers. The one that only does 20-50Hz will flatten the bottom...

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