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Thread: Nuforce amplifier any experience

  1. #16
    Senior Member gerard's Avatar
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    Thank you Edgewound .


    I am quiet interested in those amp and my purchase a pair but I can't unfortunately test them .

    Does those amps sound like SS ; typical Tube , Neutral Tube or something else and do you think it worls ok with 43xx ?

    Regards

    Gerard

  2. #17
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    Hello

    While my only contact with any NuForce product has been via their web page I am still hard pressed to see anything high tech, ground breaking, cutting edge, ect. They are a switch mode power supply amp somthing that many amp companies have been doing for years, QSC, Lab Gruppen, Camco, Diagam and others with excellent results. Switch mode power supplies in audio amps is something Bob Carver did first in the mid 1980's. Again these amps appear to be nothing more than off the shelf industrial switch mode power supply modules and a generic power amp module. For whats it's worth on their web site they offer the modules by themseleves for sale. While these amps may sound fine they are most certainly nothing new or ground breaking.
    For the prices they list their amps at go buy a QSC PL2 series for the same money and get more power and I bet you would not hear the difference. The QSC amps and all of the amps I mentioned are pro series of amps that would would pass for a Hi Fi home amp in sound quality. The power supplies in those amps were desinged as part of an audio amp and not just an off the shelf product.

    Mike Caldwell

  3. #18
    Senior Member edgewound's Avatar
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    For my own use, I've been using Stewart Audio amps. Mostly for live sound. Bel Canto switched to ICE, from Tri-path, and the Sonic-T amps get rave reviews... but that might be more from a financially- stable-company point of view. If it's switchmode...does it have to be bullshit? Soundstream which was a Stewart Electonics division used the same amp for home theater and was THX certified. Let the market decide. Try one before you tank on it...Like i said before...some will stick with what they're used to...some won't want a new "ipod"....Maybe physics is moving forward in amplifier design.
    Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
    Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA

  4. #19
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgewound
    For my own use, I've been using Stewart Audio amps. Mostly for live sound. Bel Canto switched to ICE, from Tri-path, and the Sonic-T amps get rave reviews... but that might be more from a financially- stable-company point of view. If it's switchmode...does it have to be bullshit? Soundstream which was a Stewart Electonics division used the same amp for home theater and was THX certified. Let the market decide. Try one before you tank on it...Like i said before...some will stick with what they're used to...some won't want a new "ipod"....Maybe physics are moving forward in amplifier design.
    I dont know! I have tried switching PS amps from Crown, QSC, and Lab. They work, and they all sound fairly good, I think Lab Gruppen has the best sonic character of the 3 brands I mentioned, BUT, the one thing all these amps didnt do right for me is the deep bass! While they may be clean, they just dont hit like a traditional amp that has class AB outputs and massive power supplies! To me, the bass through traditional amps also have better definition, bass lines sound more articulate.
    scottyj

  5. #20
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    Hello
    I do need to say that in addition to the many QSC PL2's than I use for mids and highs as well as for stage monitors the low end for the mains is all powered with Crown MA3600VZ amps...there heavy, they require there own dedicated circuit for power, did I mention there heavy! But there is jsut something about them for low end.

    Sorry for getting this post a little off topic, ok more than a little.
    Mike Caldwell

  6. #21
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    I was using some 3600,s this past summer, and that amp walks on Crown newer series the I Techs. The 3600 just delivers, and beats the I Tech 6000, and the 6000 is rated to deliver 3000wpc@4ohms -vs- the 3600 at 1565wpc@4ohms!


    I just put my PSA-2,s back into the system on subs, man, 450wpc@4ohms of power in a 60 lb amp with massive dual power supplies sounds AMAZING, and shakes the building!

    Bass amps NEED to have BIG power supplies, and usually weigh alot! The PSA-2,s KICK like the devil. And they sound good. Hadnt heard em in a while, was really surprised at what they can do!

    I understand why guys love their Crown 5000,s and Crest 9001,s.

    My opinion is, as was my opinion always, " If it dont weigh enough, It cant play enough ".

    scottyj

  7. #22
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Very interesting,

    Would be fun to audition one.

    I have tried the Bel Canto in my system.

    Sounded dry and lifeless, and lacked the ambience and being there imaging of a JLH reference class A amp. They are popular with Apogee Stage users because they can drive very low impedance loads to around 600 watts or so bridged.

    I have had good reports locally about the Camco, clean and enormous headroom even into 4 ohms it leaves the big mosfet Mackies far behind.

    Sooner or latter they will get them very close to sonic perfection.

    Its a bit like comparing an electronic keyboard to a real one...almost but not quite.....


    Ian

  8. #23
    Senior Member edgewound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerard
    Thank you Edgewound .


    I am quiet interested in those amp and my purchase a pair but I can't unfortunately test them .

    Does those amps sound like SS ; typical Tube , Neutral Tube or something else and do you think it worls ok with 43xx ?

    Regards

    Gerard
    Gerard...

    The setup I heard was a pair of Usher speakers and a pair of NuForce reference 9's. As with all electronics your own ears will be the ultimate determiner of sound quality. To me...this setup sounded very nice....very clean....like any good power amp should...plenty of bass presence...I'm sure they'd drive 43xx just fine. I'd buy them myself and probably will when they have the whole HT setup available. What I look for in electronics now is the most performance in the smallest package....that's why I love the Stewart Audio amps....1100 watts bridged mono @ 4 ohms, 1 rack space, weighs 11 pounds and sounds very good...and doesn't trip a 20 amp breaker with bass notes. I think this stuff is here to stay and will only get better with time....there are some real geniuses designing new gadgets and they are definitely worth a listen and a look. Speakers are a different story...you need cone area and displacement to move lots of air, and there are trade offs with big vs. small speaker enclosures with what they are able to acheive. Good luck with these new amps....I think you will enjoy what they do.
    Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
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  9. #24
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
    Very interesting,

    Would be fun to audition one.

    I have tried the Bel Canto in my system.

    Sounded dry and lifeless, and lacked the ambience and being there imaging of a JLH reference class A amp. They are popular with Apogee Stage users because they can drive very low impedance loads to around 600 watts or so bridged.

    I have had good reports locally about the Camco, clean and enormous headroom even into 4 ohms it leaves the big mosfet Mackies far behind.

    Sooner or latter they will get them very close to sonic perfection.

    Its a bit like comparing an electronic keyboard to a real one...almost but not quite.....


    Ian
    See, I agree with you to a point. I thought the Lab Gruppens sounded quite good, tightish sounding bottom, clean mids, but the impact wasnt there like a big heavy amp!

    The touring guys like the Labs and the Camcos, they are clean, but alot also tell me they miss the sound of Crown 5K,s and the big Crests running subs, but they dont miss moving them around!

    Another lightweight amp I thought has a fast snappy bottom is Chevin Research, but again, left me wanting for impact and weight on the deep end of things.

    It happened to me this way; after the summer was over, I got fed up and threw my hands in the air, took out the Crown macros, and put the antiquities, I mean PSA-2,s back into the system, man, I was amazed at the bass, the way it sounds, the way it feels, and how I can run my bottom all nite long with virtually NO AUDIBLE thermal compression!

    I swear it seems like the subs are getting down an octave lower!

    My next favorite amps for sub bass duty is Crest! The Pro Series they no longer make, but the 7001,s and 8001,s and 9001,s do the do. Yes they do!

    I tried, I really did, I wanted to find new technology that would please me, but for me, ITS GOTTA HAVE those BIG transformers and filter storage caps, and robust output stages! Got to have my Iron!
    scottyj

  10. #25
    Senior Member Ian Mackenzie's Avatar
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    Hi Scotty,

    Nicely put......

    Just shooting the breeze but bass is not like the rest of music. The average to peak power is much higher and that is where most of the power is needed.

    I recall the Carver Cube was a bit like what you described, nice dynamics but hold a bass note and forget it.

    There ain't nothing like a stored charge in a big chunk of iron and bunch of cans.

    Ian

  11. #26
    Senior Member edgewound's Avatar
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    Scotty...


    I think what you're hearing and feeling with the old amps is lower damping factor and looser bass lag....If that's what you like....cool... But to me a slower sub-bass response is not as musical....and neither is rumble from drums. These newer amps I think are more accurate in the bass and will tell you how good/bad your speaker system responds. I love that tight controlled stop on a dime bass. I can't stand overbearing, brain-rattling kick drums that want to make me leave the room...I'm so tired of it....it's not music...it's just plain obnoxious....IMHO .

    Anyway I gues the point comes back around to what you like...and that's perfectly ok. I guess as an aside...these switching type amps do need a good AC power source to work well...since it draws the current demand from the wall socket.
    Edgewound...JBL Pro Authorized...since 1988
    Upland Loudspeaker Service, Upland, CA

  12. #27
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
    Hi Scotty,

    Nicely put......

    Just shooting the breeze but bass is not like the rest of music. The average to peak power is much higher and that is where most of the power is needed.

    I recall the Carver Cube was a bit like what you described, nice dynamics but hold a bass note and forget it.

    There ain't nothing like a stored charge in a big chunk of iron and bunch of cans.

    Ian
    Agreed!
    scottyj

  13. #28
    RIP 2010 scott fitlin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgewound
    Scotty...


    I think what you're hearing and feeling with the old amps is lower damping factor and looser bass lag....If that's what you like....cool... But to me a slower sub-bass response is not as musical....and neither is rumble from drums. These newer amps I think are more accurate in the bass and will tell you how good/bad your speaker system responds. I love that tight controlled stop on a dime bass. I can't stand overbearing, brain-rattling kick drums that want to make me leave the room...I'm so tired of it....it's not music...it's just plain obnoxious....IMHO .

    Anyway I gues the point comes back around to what you like...and that's perfectly ok.
    Actually, that was ONE of the things that impresses everyone! The old Crown PSA-2 plays bottom with authority and command!

    With the macros, and to a degree even the crests, the bass drum doesnt have that instant whack, and equally instant stop!

    The way each note starts and stops using the PSA-2,s is stunning! The PSA is NOT a rumbly sounding amp at all, tight, but deep. PSA 2 bass starts and stops on a dime, and can do this all nite long without wimping out!

    Truthfully, I hear more notes using a PSA-2 or even a BGW 750D than any of todays Pro amps. For me, its todays Pro amps that tend to jumble all the notes together that give you that bottom that just drones, Car Bass I call it!

    The PSA-2 happens to make a very tight sounding bottom. And, the PSA-2 has TREMENDOUS transient snap!

    Ill tell ya an amp I also heard that excels for bass! The Bryston 14B SST!

    I got a question for you Edgewound, why is it that alot of these newer technology lightweight amps that are rated for power well in excess of 1000wpc dont seem to really deliver like thier specs imply, and many of the older designs seem to go a hell of a lot further than their specs imply?

    scottyj

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgewound
    .

    Anyway I gues the point comes back around to what you like...and that's perfectly ok. I guess as an aside...these switching type amps do need a good AC power source to work well...since it draws the current demand from the wall socket.
    I do have a dedicated 200 amp single phase service for my sound system, the main breaker is fed from a 400 amp leg of my 3 phase 800 amp main, and my panel is all 20 amp and 30 amp breakers, one outlet per breaker, no shared neutrals, and a dedicated seperate ground for this system.

    Each amp has it own breaker, if I had an amp that needed a 65 amp breaker, I can run it, and run it properly!

    AC power WILL never be something I am lacking.
    scottyj

  15. #30
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    Hello

    If your looking for the most watts cramed into the least space here's a link to Power Soft / Digams site http://pro-audio.powersoft.it/produc...menu=271&id=97 .
    As for the lower damping factor most crown amps have some of the highest damping factor ratings among amps in the bussiness. For anyone who is wondering damping factor is a value placed on a amp based on the impedance of the amps output measured between the + & - speaker terminals, the lower the better nearing a 0 ohm reading. What that does is the speaker is seeing a very low impedance across it's termianls cancelling any over excursion that is from the mass of the moving speaker cone still in motion when the signal calls for the cone to move in another direction. But.....in a system where you may have 50 feet of 12 or even 10 gauge speaker cable you have added enough resistance to the output to drop a damping factor that at the amp may have been well over a 1000 down to a 100 or so. It is always better to start out with it as high as possiable!
    Scott, PSA's are great amps two of them were my first big amps back...way back in the day. I remember reading somewhere that Showco had a modification that turned them into something like a 700 watt or so per channel amp they called them a PSA2HX are something close to that. I'll try think were I read that from some years ago.

    Mike Caldwell

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