4343 x 250ti

[4313B]

Thanks Earl,

I was just curious. Depending on how I flip my LE14 enclosures I have about 16" from floor to centerline. I know G.T. designed the 250Ti to get that LE14 off the floor a specific distance in order to compliment the range it was operating in.

"The point is more transducers can be used to "average-down" room induced, acoustic, anamolies ."

Yes definitely. One can run a single sub but one should also build or buy an EQ to go with it.

This looks pretty fun:
http://sound.westhost.com/project84.htm

[Robh3606]

Morning Earl, Giskard

What's the deal with floor bounce?? Is it simply the the height off the floor?? Mine is 29.5 inches to the center of the 145. That works out to a 1/2 wavelength frequency of 230HZ. If that is true then you wouldn't you also expect to see a 3dB peak at 460hz from the in phase summation of the reflection. Directivity changes with frequency so wouldn't this influence the strength of the reinforcing reflection. I also thought that it was the frequency where the path lengths of the direct sound and the first reflection worked out to 1/2 wavelength difference. If that is the case would listener distance and height come into play because of the geometry? Is it all of the above??

Thanks Rob

[Earl K]

Hi Robh

- Perhaps, you should start a new thread for this topic. It's actually a very broad topic.

- The predicted analomies are easily measurable ( with your 8024 ) to determine whether or not they showup in your specific situation. The White Papers by Dr. Floyd Toole on the Harman site illuminate this subject really quite well.

- I use a 1/2 wavelength formula, just as a guideline/reference because the speaker isn't acting as single point source ( from just the center of the cone ). The effective cancellation occurs over a broader range dependant on the diameter of the cone & actual acoustic center factors. You are right that there is probably an expected spike but a lot of systems are crossed over before that happens - but not mine. Once again , in my situation, the addition of a second driver in my MTM setup mitigates just about all the "bad effects" from floor reflections. I even hear an palpable increase in the "speed" from the whole combination. And now of course we are way off topic.

regards <. Earl K

[4313B]

"And now of course we are way off topic."

What topic?

[Earl K]

Well, I thought the topic was having to choose a 4 way; 4343 vis a vis the 250ti . But like most here, once a topic gets into it's second page , I'm willing to wander into/comment on other areas.

regards <. EarlK

[4313B]

Oh yeah! That was the topic
I'd personally hate to have to choose between them. Ultimately I would obviously select the 250Ti, but the 4343 is so damn fun and I could definitely see a few of my friends choosing the 4343 instead

[Earl K]

Well , I don't have the available footprint that a 15" speaker enclosure requires - so I'd opt for the 14" based system. I barely have the height required by most of the larger MTM systems - so I'm really restricted.

regards <> EarlK

[boputnam]

Originally posted by Giskard
I added a second 2245H sub and, true to form, it all came together just fine.

Sounds like you're gettin' mighty close to a 4345 to me...

and...

It wouldn't surprise me to find that those who dislike subs have never run more than one.

Great point. I dislike subs, but love the 4345 and 4350-55. I should find someone to try this.

I did notice at a recent Joe Cocker show (grab it, if he's anywhere near your town ) they were running what seemed to be paired 2234's in subcabinets, stage right/left.

[4313B]

"Sounds like you're gettin' mighty close to a 4345 to me... "
I've been building 2245H subs for over twenty years, this is just one more pair in a long string of them.

"I dislike subs, but love the 4345 and 4350-55."
Hmmm... I'll bow out of this discussion right about now

[Ian Mackenzie]

Bo there Boy,

Please explain yourself:

"Great point. I dislike subs, but love the 4345 and 4350-55. I should find someone to try this. "

I'd love to heard your perception on this topic....by morning

My take on this like all sub stuff has been beaten to death many times before...but 2245s in the 4345s are tuned differently and also do not incur same the group delay associated with crossing over a typical sub @80 hertz, this appears to be the culprit with integration of subs / mains in many cases, apart from running the subs too loud.

Ian lights out


:o

[Godofredo]

Hi everyone,

I'd like to say a big thank you to you all for the answers and advices.
I'll keep both models. Your answers and advices were invaluable.
Once again and again, thank you very very much.

Regards,

Godofredo

[boputnam]

Originally posted by Ian Mackenzie
I'd love to heard your perception on this topic....by morning

My only feeble point is, the subs I've heard in home systems are mud (Widget's upperfloor system being uniquely different). The 4345's you featured are not muddy at all.

It was posited that subs might be better in pairs, rather than single. I'm keen to taste-test that, since the 4345's are paired, and I really like their ULF sound, eh?

But hey - we're way long onto Page Two, and you know what Earl sez...

[Ian Mackenzie]

Well just disconnect one woofer and you'll know the answer

But be careful, it may upset the fluid balance in your inner ear.

Ian

[4313B]

"It was posited that subs might be better in pairs, rather than single."

Might???

At least read the Harman white papers. They "might" shed some light.

"the subs I've heard in home systems are mud"

Hmmm, never heard 121/124/2203 subs eh?
136/2231 subs?
LE14 subs?
2235 subs?
2245 subs?
2242 subs?

I suppose any of these can be made to sound like mud if one doesn't have a clue as to what they are dealing with

[boputnam]

ok, OK, [size=huge]OK!![/size]

Dammit, I meant the crummy little typically black meager little cube consumer subs that people attach to an already lame system. Whew! Does that help! Man it's TOUGH out here

No, oh esteemed SubOne, I have not heard all them, and you knew that! Meanie!

And you, you DownUnder DIYer, I'm gonna disconnect BOTH 2245's, that will show YOU!! Uh, wait a minute...

Come on, gimme some L100's to bash - I need a lift!