4343 x 250ti

[Godofredo]

Hi everyone!
As a proud owner of a JBL 4343 Studio Monitor, I am a little lost and ask for some advice.
I just bought a pair of JBL 250 TI, and it is sounding spectacular wonderful.
I am not saying it is better than the 4343, but it is close.
Any advice anyone, please?
Thanks a lot for your time and your help.
Kind regards,

Godofredo

[JBL Dog]

Godofredo:

Are you in a situation where you can keep both sets? Or, do you have to choose one and sell the other?



I have a set of 4343's in the "Dog-house". Wifey won't let me put them where the general public can see them. 4343 = very low WAF.



The C-45 Metregon is on display in the living room, very high WAF. I truly enjoy both. The Metergon sounds fantastic, but it's no 4343. When I want the music to be intense, I head to the "Dog-house" for the 4343's! Background level? Definitely the Metregon!



Dog sez: "Enjoy them both! It's not like we're dealing with Radio Shack's finest holding a candle to the 4343's!"



This message comes from JBL Dog

[4313B]

Hello Godofredo,

First
"I am not saying it is better than the 4343, but it is close."
Listen for a month and then tell us what you think again

"Any advice anyone, please?"

Yeah, keep them both. IMO you have very good examples of two of JBL's best design approaches. On the one hand you have the large format four-way Studio Monitor design; transducers with tightly controlled bandwidths and dispersion characteristics that optimize each transducer's performance. On the other hand you have the best of the Home Hi-Fi four-way designs featuring very smooth, wide-band transducers coupled with first order filters.

[Tom Loizeaux]

I have a similar "problem". My 4343s sound great, but when I listen to my 4312s with a JBL sub, I wonder if I could be happy with the smaller speakers. I was going back and forth just last night and again came to the conclusion that, though the 4312s sound great, the 4343s seem to handle the music with a little less smear or compression. Hitting piano keys hard, for example, sounds a little muted on the 4312s when compared to the clarity of the notes (probably from the 2420 compression drivers) on the 4343s. The low end of the 4343s is maybe slightly fuller (almost boomy at times) where the low end of the 4312s is more open. With the addition of the PB12 to the 4312s I do get low end that tells me there's something there at 35 Hz.
If I had to decide which to keep, I'd have a tough decision. I suspect that the 4343s would win...since I already have a place for them in the corners of my basement music room.
Fortunatly, I don't have to make that decision.

Tom

[Ken Andrew]

I have 4315 in the study for me and L250 for the wife in the lounge. So my comments are subjective based on past auditioning of 4343. My comments are based on my experiences, my rooms, my software, and my hardware.

The L250 tweeter is much better. The 4343 has more grunt. The L250 is smoother/cleaner overall and wife's first choice.

The 4343 can be played very much louder. When you go from the studio monitor to L250 there appears to be a loss of dynamic range/vitality/liveliness.

The L250 is much better for reproducing classical music. The L250 L-R imaging is superior. Neither has good Front-Back imaging.

The 4343 is much more sensitive to amplifier and source material quality. The foam surrounds on the 4343 decay quicker and are more expensive to replace.

If anyone in Australia has a pair of 4343 to sell e-mail me.

[4313B]

"When you go from the studio monitor to L250 there appears to be a loss of dynamic range/vitality/liveliness."

This was improved in the 250Ti. Both the 104H and 044Ti have greater dynamic range than their predecessors. The filter was competely redesigned.

Biasing the 250Ti filter results in further improvement. In fact, the designer of the L250 and 250Ti considers the difference between a stock 250Ti and a biased 250Ti "staggering".

*****

"I was going back and forth just last night and again came to the conclusion that, though the 4312s sound great, the 4343s seem to handle the music with a little less smear or compression."

Yeah, there is simply no way the 12 in the 4312 can compete with the 10 in the 4343 in the range that the 10 is operating in.

[steveh]

Giskard,
Very interesting information with regards to the 250Ti's. Couple of questions. When the 250Ti's were available, JBL recommended the use of B460 sub. Was this a single B460 or one B460 for each 250Ti? If the recommendation was one B460, would two B460's offer significant improvement? Second question, what does biasing the crossovers consist of? Finally, with the 250Ti's not having any horn drivers, is there any appreciable difference in the use of tube amps versues solid state? Thanks for any information, it is appreciated.

Steve

[4313B]

Hi Steve,

"When the 250Ti's were available, JBL recommended the use of B460 sub. Was this a single B460 or one B460 for each 250Ti? If the recommendation was one B460, would two B460's offer significant improvement?"

I don't recall ever hearing that two be used as opposed to one from Marketing. It has been my experience that a properly set up pair of 250Ti's do not require any VLF reinforcement from subwoofers for music reproduction.

As for subs in general, at first it was considered sufficient to add a single, properly set up subwoofer to produce or augment VLF response. The JBL B212 came with detailed instructions and a test record to facilitate proper set up. Then it was found that stereo subs offered improved response. Now it appears that two subs, each operating in summed mono, should be considered as the minimum solution. Harman has several white papers dealing with subwoofers in general. I think I ran across a similar white paper from JBL Pro as well.

"Second question, what does biasing the crossovers consist of?"

Several threads have been started dealing with this issue. You can search for "charge", "couple", or "bias" and I believe Robh3606 was one of the thread starters

[Ken Andrew]

I had a single B460. The JBL brochure only shows one per system. There is no benefit from two because the stereo source is 'summed' in the cross-over and also a single B460 is extremely loud so more than one is unecessary.

See my other post on the value of the B460. It is not required for hi-fi. It is essential for home theatre.

Check that your listening room is of adequate construction strength and has the dimensions necessary to reproduce the wavelengths the B460 reproduces.

I found vast improvement in sound quality of the studio monitors by using a tube pre-amp with SS power amp. The class A ML2 (I used for 10 years) doesn't come close to the same quality.

I haven't tried tube gear with the L250 but I doubt it would make any difference at all. The L250 is not that hardware sensitive.

[leif]

I am these days considering the Ti250 vs a pair of 4435
I have never heard the 4435, and wonder if any of you can help me with the choice. I love the look and the sound of the Ti`s, but love also the look of the 4435. What to do when the price is the same for both couple of speakers. I listen to pop/rock only. No classical music.

[4313B]

"There is no benefit from two because the stereo source is 'summed' in the cross-over and also a single B460 is extremely loud so more than one is unecessary."

There are definite benefits from running more than one sub. One reason for using multiple subs is to reduce standing wave modes within a listening room. Back when I didn't know any better I ran single summed mono subs and fought every damn room I put one in. It has long been accepted practice to use at least two. Just recently I tried yet another single 2245H sub in yet another rather small listening room and regardless of where I placed it there were simply too many peaks and dips. I added a second 2245H sub and, true to form, it all came together just fine. It wouldn't surprise me to find that those who dislike subs have never run more than one.

Hell, G.T. is busy building four 1500AL-based custom subs for his personal use. Not one, not two, but four. And I can assure you he has no interest in blowing out his hearing.

*****

I've added a couple of links that might be interesting.

Tech Note available for downloading:

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/technote/tn_v3n03.pdf

White Papers available for downloading:

http://www.harman.com/wp/index.jsp?articleId=default

[4313B]

Originally posted by leif
I am these days considering the Ti250 vs a pair of 4435
I have never heard the 4435, and wonder if any of you can help me with the choice. I love the look and the sound of the Ti`s, but love also the look of the 4435. What to do when the price is the same for both couple of speakers. I listen to pop/rock only. No classical music.

Oooo, bad choice to be faced with
You're going to have to do some serious A/B listening to make the right decision for your tastes.

[Earl K]

Hi
Just to add to Giskards comments. I've found some very similar benefits from my MTM experiments. My two le14a woofers display ( on a RTA ) an expected cancellation (derived from the distance of the speaker to the floor ). When even a single le10 is added in ( sitting on top of the horn ), this quite significant null ( at around 225hz ) is nicely filled in. Though the le10a is in a .5 cu' sealed enclosure there's even a tangible increase in LF information below 70 hz. This addition to LF information is measurable on a RTA.

regards <> Earl K

[4313B]

Hi Earl,
Just out of curiosity, how high off the floor do you have those LE14's? Similar to the LE14 height in a 240Ti or 250Ti?

[Earl K]

Hi Giskard

- They are still in the original S99 cabinets that came with the purchase.
- Cabinets are flipped - with port down & woofer at the top of box .
- Floor to center of le14 cone is 15.5". ( math-wise I don't think that supports my just mentioned null - I guess I should drag the RTA back to that room and remeasure ).


<> Earl K

Well. I just remeasured

- Null seems to be centered in the 315hz - 400 hz area.

- As first mentioned - the addition of the extra 10" driver above it really helps fill in this null.

- This was my intention of adding to the post. The point is more transducers can be used to "average-down" room induced, acoustic, anamolies .