Horn system pictures

[pablol]

aahh well, somebodies horn will always be bigger I guess....

[Steve Schell]

Cvenger, I did not design these horns though I provided some input. My partner and I supplied our Cogent mid/ high frequency and bass compression drivers for use in this system.

In my opinion it is always desirable to line up the true acoustic centers of the drivers when possible. With a large architecture horn system we have a dilemma: most users of such systems don't want no stinkin' digital processor used in their perfectionist system, and this sort of processing is the only way to resolve the widely varying arrival times of the horns. It is felt by most that the loss of resolution would be worse than the benefit gained by the time alignment. I have used the DEQX system and found no noticeable degradation of sound. The benefit of the corrected arrival times is apparent, especially with our Cogent horn subwoofer with its almost 20' path length.

It is fair to say that with a large horn system like this excellent results can be obtained either with or without arrival time correction. The sound from each part of the system is effortless and very low in distortion and the elements tend to blend togther very well despite the misalignment. One way to say it is that I would prefer a pile of uncompromised though nonaligned horns to another solution that allowed alignment but lacked the effortless sound quality.

Now as to your situation... I would recommend thinking "outside the box" in regard to placement of your midrange drivers and horns and your tweeters. If you place them atop the low frequency cabinets rather than inside then you are free to position them optimally fore and aft. It requires impulse testing to locate the true acoustic centers of the drivers, as they are rarely on exactly the plane of the voice coil. I have found that the most critical relationship in terms of imaging is the alignment of tweeter and midrange. A system with simple 6dB/octave passive crossovers and all drivers in correct polarity and aligned will image like crazy. Protecting the drivers better with 12dB/octave crossovers requires reversing phase of the midrange to sum properly, and this arrangement will never image as well IME.

In general I use lengths of fine magnet wire (24 or 26 gauge) to connect a system together. Usually the passive crossover is close to the speakers, with short lengths to each driver. A run of whatever length necessary (maybe 15') goes back to the power amplifier. Keep in mind I am using compression drivers that have a ton of magnetic damping, and no additional damping is required from the amplifier. A couple of ohms resistance in the speaker line does no harm and may actually help in achieving critical damping.

[ChopsMX5]

aahh well, somebodies horn will always be bigger I guess....

You're wife is going to have you in the doghouse when she find out you're using the nice dinner glasses, not to mention the nice dinner table! LOL

BTW, nice horn.

[ChopsMX5]

I guess that if I'm going to post in this thread, I should at least throw up a horn pic or two.

Mains: Klipsch Cornwalls (only woofers being used) and Altec 511B/902-8B
Center: Pyle PPA15 in sealed 4.23cf enclosure and Altec 511B/902-8T

I know, this system isn't as "horny" as others here, but it's a start. The best part is that there are NO Klipsch horns being used!

With grills in place - normal...


Without grills - just for fun...

[Hoerninger]

... will always be bigger I guess....

But finer?
There might be an interest how you made the bends.
___________
Peter

[pablol]

As long I fix what I break the wifes happy , The bends were made as per the Edgar horn article found here volvotreter.de/dl-section.htm. In my case I uses wadded up rope calk stuck to the table to space and align the straight sides with a wood block on the top part to keep the sides from falling together. Then 3/4" I cut slats and guled them stacked along the curved edges. Rough shaped with a wood rasp, filled all the voids with wood filler and sanded smooth. Finished with a prime and paint. I'll take build pictures when I build the other one. I'm getting drivers today and I didn't want to build 2 before I found out if they were going to be functional. The peliminary test was my wife yelling at me through it it worked well over the vocal range . It also worked well as a hearing aid....

[cvengr]

Thanks for the input. I might just go back to the 4350 baffle design and place the midrange and tweeter externally.

I've also toyed with mounting a couple of amps in each box and just running the output from the active crossovers to them by XLR connections.

I'm still open for any other ideas on that note.
Thanks again.

[pablol]

I guess that if I'm going to post in this thread, I should at least throw up a horn pic or two.

Mains: Klipsch Cornwalls (only woofers being used) and Altec 511B/902-8B
Center: Pyle PPA15 in sealed 4.23cf enclosure and Altec 511B/902-8T

I know, this system isn't as "horny" as others here, but it's a start. The best part is that there are NO Klipsch horns being used!

Makes me wish I had a basement for a projector (and more speakers)

After playing full range pink noise through my horn with a B&C 8pe21 I got pretty good results.

315hz - 85.1db
400hz - 85.5db
500hz - 87.2db
630hz - 86.1db
800hz - 81.9db
1000hz - 83.8db
1250hz - 80.0db

mean 84.22
biggest peak +2.98db
Biggest dip -4.44db

Not bad, I'm going to crossover at 300hz and 1000hz to a BMS 4552nd or BMS 4550 and a jbl 2226h. Next is the other horn and the horn for the tweeter. I'll try and take more construction pictures.
__________________

[pablol]

As of now the speaker isn't enclosed, what effect might closing it up have? I'm thinking about boxing it up, just enough to seal the driver.

[ChopsMX5]

As of now the speaker isn't enclosed, what effect might closing it up have? I'm thinking about boxing it up, just enough to seal the driver.

I didn't understand this question until I did a search on the B&C 8PE21 and found out that it's a cone driver. Now your question makes sense. LOL

I suppose that since you're crossing it over at 300Hz, you could probably get away with building a small 0.5cf or smaller sealed enclosure, enough to support 300Hz at least (maybe 200Hz to be on the safe side), and have a good amount of accoustic padding of some sorts in it.

Unfortunately, I don't know what would happen exactly. I'm guessing it could possibly clean the sound up some and provide more detail, giving the driver more control over itself due to the small enclosure. It would also seal the B&C driver from the backwave of the woofer(s), so the woofers wouldn't effect the midrange at all.

[Hoerninger]

... what effect might closing it up have?

1.
As long the back is open you have a back-loaded horn (used in the opposite direction) which has always sound pressure irregularities due to interferencies.
Don't feel amazed by a "spacy" sound, Bose can do it better . Closing the back will improve sound stage.

2..
A closed back chamber has an influence on the lower frequency limit as long the volume is "small". The influence can't be described within a view words, it is more complicated than with a simple closed box design. Use HORNRESPONSE for simulating and estimating.
Using a bigger volume which contributes only little to systems compliance works with no harm. Look at Volvotreters Mid Bass Horn or here using a 6 inch 18Sound 6ND410 .

3.
With a closed back you will have a tendency to sound coloration. Using a big volume it should entirely be filled with damping so the internal sound waves will be weakened. This works best in a tube but a vertical box with two appropriate sound reflectors behind the cone speaker will do as well.
____________
Peter

[Huynh Chau]

Thanks for the input. I might just go back to the 4350 baffle design and place the midrange and tweeter externally.

I've also toyed with mounting a couple of amps in each box and just running the output from the active crossovers to them by XLR connections.

I'm still open for any other ideas on that note.
Thanks again.

My small horn speakers. In VietNam too...

[Woofer]

.... obviously a beginner.
It's OK, we all had to start somewhere.

[toddalin]

My small horn speakers. In VietNam too...

OK, I'll bite..., why are the slot tweeters turned on their sides?

[Woofer]

OK, I'll bite..., why are the slot tweeters turned on their sides?

I do it myself too!
Nothing unusual in that, if a wide dispersion is what you want.
One could ask the same question, "why do you mount horns horizontally and not vertically?"

Cheers.

ps: ..... but please, Huynh Chau, do tell us more about your system.
what sort of drivers, where did you get the multi-cells, etc etc.