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Thread: 4350 - Meet Rosie

  1. #1
    Senior Member saeman's Avatar
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    4350 - Meet Rosie

    Just brought her home from the beauty shop today. Her sister Rose is still there and will require a lot of work, being the uglier of the two. Maybe in a couple weeks if I can stay on track. Still need a couple more coats of oil and will need to make new grills (hope that roll of Blue Cloth comes thru as I'd hate to use my wife's old drapes). Took the grills off one of my walnut 4350's for the pic. Waiting for the 2231A's to come back with new cone kits installed and will get this one buttoned up. Everything was restored to original (except for the Rosewood veneer and trim or course) - new baffle paint and velcro tabs, new black removable base and eye bolts in the bottom. First time I've done anything major in Rosewood and I'm pleased with the results. I do love these big monitors - wish I had a big enough house to have a pair in every room. My wife rarely says anything but she'd probably draw the line on that idea. Pics at www.lubecentersys.com/4350resto. Rick
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  2. #2
    Senior Member saeman's Avatar
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    I apparantly need a tutor to tell me how to include pics with a post. Giskard helped me out last time and I still haven't figured it out. I tried to include a couple pics with this post but they don't show up. "Push The Button" - "Get A Banana" right, even a monkey should be able to do it. Maybe a step - by - step from someone out there will get me on track. Thanx

  3. #3
    Senior Member saeman's Avatar
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    Looks like I figured it out, with some help!! Thanx Audiokarma

    Quote Originally Posted by riessen
    I apparantly need a tutor to tell me how to include pics with a post. Giskard helped me out last time and I still haven't figured it out. I tried to include a couple pics with this post but they don't show up. "Push The Button" - "Get A Banana" right, even a monkey should be able to do it. Maybe a step - by - step from someone out there will get me on track. Thanx

  4. #4
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
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    Now that is a nice looking 4350!

    Congratulations!

    Widget

  5. #5
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    Rosewood and JBL - To Die For!

    Rick,

    You are not being clear to all the boys and girls out there: You did the refurb & veneer work; stunningly beautiful!

  6. #6
    RIP 2014 Ken Pachkowsky's Avatar
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    Gorgeous

    Hmmm. Simply friggin beautiful!

    Congrats

  7. #7
    Senior Member evans224's Avatar
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    Uh, WOW!!

  8. #8
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    Absolutely Gourgeous!!! The size of the speaker lets all that Rosewood grain come out. Can you tell us more about how you did it?


    Thanks.

    Bart

  9. #9
    Senior Member saeman's Avatar
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    4350 Refurb

    Here's some of the guidelines I follow when I decide to renew some of these old monitors. My goal is usually to restore to original. Unfortunately JBL used strictly walnut veneer and to find the quality of veneer that they used is near impossible. The stuff on the market today is not the same. Cut from younger logs and you just can't find the tight grain walnut that came from old old logs years back. The result is veneer that is more open grain. When oiled up it always appears much darker. If you look at JBL's old monitors, in good shape with good veneer, the veneer almost has an orange tint to it. That's the look that is impossible to achieve. I've tried bleaching the veneer and using all sorts of light stain washes with no success. So.....why not try things like oak and rosewood......I have a pair of 4341's that need work and I will do them in walnut regardless of these concerns. They are quite rare and need to be accurately restored...... First thing to look at when doing a restore job is the veneer. It needs to be tightly bonded to the base wood. If there are a few small bubbles you can deal with them but if there are major lifts you can't veneer over them and they're real hard to lay back down. I will usually slit open the small bubbles and shoot glue under them with a hypodermic, then pressing them flat with weight. To remove the old veneer is a major major job. From a starting point with tightly layed original veneer, first thing to do is strip off all old oil as the new veneer will not glue bond to an oiled surface. Use oven cleaner. It strips the oil quick and is water soluable. Then fill and deck flat all dents and chips in the surface. Don't waste your time trying to rebuild edges and corners with big clobs of plastic wood as they are weak spots that can break out in the future. Shallow dents need to be gouged out deeper to allow a good fill that will adhere to the wood. I've used all sorts of fillers - plastic wood, epoxy and automotive bondo. All have worked well. Epoxy is harder to sand and deck flat sometimes. After the cabinet is stripped of all old finish and all surface irregularities are corrected - set up an edge guide and cut off the front edge trim using a straight router bit. If the cabinet corners are trashed, cut the whole corner or edge out 3/8" x 3/8" and glue in new wood (to match that used in the cabinet). After the glue dries trim it flush with a flush cut laminate trim router bit. There are a couple of pics showing this in those that I have posted. At this point you should have a box with no front trim, but 8 perfect corners and all razor sharp edges and you're ready for veneer. Will continue a bit later - time to head for work. Rick

  10. #10
    Senior Member saeman's Avatar
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    4350 Refurb

    With the cabinet ready for veneer you basically have two directions to go - 1. use veneer with self adhesive backing or 2. Use paper back veneer that has to be glued onto the surface. I have used both and they are readily available........ The self adhesive backed veneer is not my first choice although it is a quicker and easier job to apply it. If you choose that type of veneer, the cabinet surface MUST be absolutely clean and flat. I will brush apply usually two coats of polyeurethane varnish and lightly sand smooth and then clean the surface with a rag dampened with mineral spirits. The veneer adhesive will adhere much better to that surface than it will to just bare wood. After laying the veneer down you will need to go over the entire piece with a clothes iron (NO STEAM) at medium heat and a veneer roller. When rolling you need to listen for a crackling noise nder the roller as you move along. That indicates a lack of bonding and air trapped under the veneer. Roll until there is no crackling heard. If you end up with a small bubble of trapped air you can lightly cut a small slit in the bubble with an exacto knife and vent the air and then heat and roll again. If the bubble persists you will need to apply additional glue thru the slit. Don't use wood glue as it won't bond well to the poly coated surface or the adhesive backed veneer. Use a quick set exoxy in very small amounts. Squeeze out the excess and solvent clean the veneer before it dries on the surface. Clamp it down and let the glue set. That's the only option I know for bubbles with this type of veneer. There may be spots under the backing paper where there is insufficient adhesive (from the manufacturer) but you have no way of seeing it, or knowing it's there until you lay down the veneer. It's happened to me a couple of times.......Paper back veneer that requires glue application is the choice that, for me, has yielded the best results. You need to start with a clean surface, stripped of any oil or paint and sanded with 100 grit paper to rough it up a bit. To the cabinet surface and the veneer, I apply a coat of Tite-Bond II glue using a 3" paint roller. As soon as that first coat tacks up/dries to the touch, I apply a second coat and walk away until the next day (no longer) and let it dry. On the next day I apply another coat and after it is dry to the touch (turns transparent) but you can still penetrate it with your fingernail, I lay it down on the cabinet surface and start heating/rolling as described before. The heat of the iron will lightly melt and reactivate the glue and bond the two surfaces together. TOO MUCH HEAT will melt/puddle the glue and you'll be in trouble. Start with medium heat and keep the iron moving. You might want to practice on some scrap wood before smoking a $30-$40 piece of veneer. Always cut your veneer leaving 1/4" or so overhang all around. After the veneer is in place, trim the overhang flush using a laminate trimmer. Go all around the edges and run your finger upwards in the direction of lifting the veneer and listen for loose edges (like paper pages when thumbing thru a book). With the veneer trimmed go around all the edges again with the iron and veneer roller. After that take a flat block with 120 grit and sand the veneer edges FLUSH with the cabinet sides. Sand ONLY down, in the direction of bonding and not lifting. You're now ready for the next piece. I always veneer the cabinet bottom FIRST, then the sides so the side veneer will cover the exposed edge of the bottom veneer. Do the top last so it's veneer covers the exposed edges of the two side pieces. Man - I'm out of control here and getting windy but you asked. Let's end it here - will add more info on trim and finish when my fingers are rested. Rick

  11. #11
    Administrator Robh3606's Avatar
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    That looks great!


    Rob

  12. #12
    Regis
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    Nice!

    You must have one excellent wife! "Honey, I want to put a pair of speakers in the living room and they only weigh about 260 pounds apeice!" I skimmed the veener instructions and frankly I'm amazed at how thorough you were. You can tell, because the quality is beatiful. We wanna see pics when it's d


    one!

  13. #13
    Senior Member saeman's Avatar
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    4350 Refurb

    OK - My fingers are rested. Remember guys, my way may not be the only way and I'm not the gospel. Old Dog - Old Tricks. Some of you out there could probably add to this long winded thread with some other tricks. At this point we're looking at a veneered cabinet but it needs trim. You can go two ways on installing the front trim on the big JBL monitors. Almost all of them have a 30 degree bevel. You can install trim before you do the veneer or afterwards. Doing it before veneering leaves the least evidence of a glue line between the veneer and the trim (assuming that the two are a good color and grain match). Glue the trim on the cabinet and veneer over it. When you cut the front bevel you'll cut thru the veneer along with the trim - nice job...... You can also install the trim afterwards. If you choose this way, cut the trim about 1/32" wider than the cabinet is thick and when glueing it on, leave the overhang sticking out on the veneer/outer side of the cabinet. Cut your 30 degree bevel and then sand the trim flush with the veneered surface. I've done it both ways and both are OK. Attention to detail is more important. JBL only glued on their trim - no dowel pins, no splines, etc. Good glue and well clamped and it WILL NOT fall off. All veneer that I have used comes finish sanded. After installation I lightly sand with 120 grit, then 220 grit and if applying an oil finish I further sand with 320 grit......Finish type depends on the type of wood used - in my opinion. Walnut has to be oiled. It's against the law to spray laquer or polyeurethane over walnut. You might as well paint it black. Rosewood, Teak and other exotics do well with oil too, as long as they're tight grained. Red and White Oak and other more open grain woods look nicer with a sprayed finish. There's all kinds of options. I have a spray gun and shoot laquer quite a bit. For the guys who don't have that ability, consider buying spray cans of satin polyeurethane from Home Depot/Menards. Several (4-6) coats out of a spray can, steel wooled in between, will yield real nice results. Poly will be more resistant to water rings should you be forced to allow your wife to put a plant on top of your precious speaker cabinet !!!!!!!!! Found one of our cats sitting on top of one of my Model 19's this morning - sent his butt flying. That's all I know - Would be glad to help with anything that I have overlooked here. Rick

  14. #14
    Senior Member saeman's Avatar
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    4350 Refurb

    Have started doing the second cabinet and have cut out all the back cabinet edges. Here's a couple of pics showing the new wood installed around the back edges of the cabinet. It's baltic birch to match the material used for the cabinet sides, top and bottom. Front to back edges are good and will not be cut out. If they were, I would replace them with oak as it's hard and provides a solid edge, and it won't show when the new veneer is installed. Hopefully this will answer a previous question about how new edge material can be installed. This is a much better option than trying to fill in problem areas with plastic wood. Rick
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  15. #15
    Audiokarma
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    Wow, this project must give you a tremendous sense of satisfaction and accomplishment. Very nice. Cant' wait to see the finished product.

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