Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 59

Thread: What to power L300’s with?

  1. #31
    majick47
    Guest

    Powering L300

    I'll keep this going and throw in one more factor for powering the L300, is the listening room live/dead/neutral? With wall to wall carpeting on a cement slab and heavy drapes over the windows my listening room falls on the dead side. My listening levels are kept at a moderate level, with my large ss amp the sound is very full and accurate. On the other hand my brothers listening room is almost as large but very live and he requires a lot less volume from his ss amp to power his JBLs. I auditioned a pair of L300 in a live listening room powered by a tube amp, the mids/highs were very good but it lacked the solid bass/punch the L300 is capable of. My listening preference is mainly classic rock from the 70s and 80s and for my tastes the L300 is excellent.

  2. #32
    Steve Gonzales
    Guest

    choices

    I love the L300. Great all around speaker to work with. Cosmic bass, very good midrange and sweet 077 on the top. If I was going to start somewhere and needed a great amplifier to power them, I would try a Yamaha M80 or 85, MX800,1000or 1000u. These underrated amps are clean, musical, offer Class A mode, have a lot of headroom and are quite the "band for the buck". Someone has suggested bi-amping the L300's and I agree with that and will go one further, TRI-amp them!. I use the 300's H92/LE85's in my L220/222's and what that gives me is this, LE14H vs 136A, same midrange except the L94 serpentine vs L91 slantplate, and the 076 vs 077, so they are quite simular in driver complement, not exact, but close. I have found that the effect is dramatic, best I've ever had. I use an M80 on the bottom, 45wpc VTL EL34 on the mids and a M35 (baby Yammy) on the top. WONDERFUL!!!. I use a JBL M553 electronic, again, clean, flexible and reasonable pricing. You can explore the bigger, better, badder stuff as you become familiar with the workings of a multi-amp system. This basic set-up is no slouch, but there is better, I'm suggesting a great combination to try without breaking the bank. I look forward to your impressions whatever you choose. Happy hunting, Steve G

  3. #33
    RIP 2013 Rolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Skien, Norway
    Posts
    2,298
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveL300
    Ian,

    The Vincent hybrid integrated Amp model # SV- 226MK looks to be a very good and simple compromise of both worlds. I sent Vincent an email asking them about a distributor in the U.S.

    Thank you,

    Steve
    I would NOT go for a Vincent. They sound ok within their price range, but your speakers should use much better amp(s).

    Rolf

  4. #34
    RIP 2013 Rolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Skien, Norway
    Posts
    2,298
    Quote Originally Posted by majick47
    I'll keep this going and throw in one more factor for powering the L300, is the listening room live/dead/neutral? With wall to wall carpeting on a cement slab and heavy drapes over the windows my listening room falls on the dead side. My listening levels are kept at a moderate level, with my large ss amp the sound is very full and accurate. On the other hand my brothers listening room is almost as large but very live and he requires a lot less volume from his ss amp to power his JBLs. I auditioned a pair of L300 in a live listening room powered by a tube amp, the mids/highs were very good but it lacked the solid bass/punch the L300 is capable of. My listening preference is mainly classic rock from the 70s and 80s and for my tastes the L300 is excellent.
    Right! The room is a very imprtant factor to concider. To get the most out of a given speaker system it is A MUST to have a quite "dead" room. A very live room will be full of reflections witch will mess up the sound. You will never be able to get the position of each instument in a band or an orcestra.

    When I (we) fixed up our living room last year everything from floor, walls, furniture, drapes etc. was carfully selected. This was the first time I was able to do this from the start to finish. What a difference. Later, with the help and desciptions from Ian, about how to set up the speakers, the sound stage is now amazing. If you wonder how I was able to choose the "right stuff", it is only from 40 years of listening experiance. No electroinc readings or other hi-teck stuff.

    With this in mind, you need more power that the 7-15W p/c to get the speakers to do their job. As I have said before, in my opinion, 150-300W p/c.

  5. #35
    majick47
    Guest

    Powering L300

    I have a lot of respect for any forum member that has gone to the effort and expense to aquire a pair of L300 and then carefully select the associated electronics. The different formulas for crafting the sound to please each individual will be a personal choice that's best suited for them. I have very much enjoyed the lively give and take of opinions and will no doubt experiment after reading all the excellent suggestions. It might be a small step but I'v been considering purchasing a tube preamp that has a good mc phono section.

  6. #36
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    10

    ROOM FACTOR

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolf
    Right! The room is a very important factor to concider. To get the most out of a given speaker system it is A MUST to have a quite "dead" room. A very live room will be full of reflections witch will mess up the sound. You will never be able to get the position of each instument in a band or an orcestra.
    I concur with Rolf. Room setup is critical for great sound with proper soundstaging and pinpoint imaging. In my case, being a tube purest, I have no tone controls, eq's, filters, ect. Less is best, IMO. My room is "Tuned" with minimal furniture, damped with rugs, drapes, and other devices. Speaker placement in conjunction with listener position has taken weeks of tweaking with different music material to "get it right". Once it's locked in, I draw a road map of the setup. Then you can evaluate other changes, like different brands of tubes, capacitors, wire, amps, ect.

    When I bought my house 15 years ago, I took into consideration my main listening room, which had a lot to do with my choice of houses.
    Before I moved in I had a 200 amp service pulled just for that room and a 100 amp service pulled for a adjacent 10 X 6 walk-in coat closet where I keep my turntable, tuner, ect. I chose heaviest gauge Romex wire, heavy conduit shielding, and hospital grade Hubbell wall receptacles. The whole service is isolated from the rest of my home, and is grounded with six 5 foot long solid copper 1/2 inch rods driven into the ground in my backyard. No noises in the system from the washer, A/C, or anything esle in my home.

    THANK GOD I HAVE A WONDERFUL WIFE THAT GOES ALONG WITH MY MADNESS.

    BTW.....At one time I built a pair of sand boxes (with Santa Monica Beach Sand) and put my L300's in them....It didn't sound right....my wife was glad of that.

    The never-ending quest continues.....

    I hope I haven't bored the forum ~ Brian

  7. #37
    RIP 2013 Rolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Skien, Norway
    Posts
    2,298

    Big is beautiful

    Hi all. Today I read the following article that I think will give some answers regarding this thread, and this is the physicals laws. Sorry for any spelling errors. And I Quote:

    There's is no point in using a pint sized amp and bookshelf speakers in a hall and expecting a great sound.
    There's a correct loudspeaker and amplifier for every room.
    Large amplifiers and loudspeakers combinations have the potential of delivering a higher quality of sound than their smaller counterparts. So what is the advantages of powerful amplifiers?

    Imagine the dynamics of a loudspeaker driver. The moving portion of the driver (the cone) has mass and in order to create sound pressure must displace the air around it (do work) at a frequency dependent upon the source. Supplying and controlling the kinetic energy of the driver cone represents a significant challenge for an amplifier. An idal cone be infinitely light, stiff and have no friction. In reality the cone has both mass and friction.

    The amplifier effectively pushes and pulls the driver cone in and out of the speaker cabinet (like an automobile piston) at musical reproduction frequencies. In an ideal system, the driver cone will exactly match these frequencies, but in reality most amplifires struggle to do this effectively as they haven't got the current drive to exert sufficint grip over the cone. To decelerate and stop the cone, then accelerate it to velocity in the oposite direction at musical frequencies is a task that only powerful high current dessign amplifires can perform efficiently.

    An inferion amplifier can't exert sufficient contol over the driver cone and as a result the sound can appear smeared.

    You'll require a larger amplifirer if you want to fully appreciate the dynamics of music at lower listening levels, alternately if you require your system to produce higher volume levels.

    Musical transients can be many times louder than normal and past a certain point a smaller amplifier is unable of reproducing these and will simply "clip" the transients off.

    The same scenario applies after a point when increased volume is called for.

    The main reason why speaker drivers become damaged, in turn damaging the amplifier is that the amplifier is undersized. The user turns up the volume and past a point the amplifier will begin to clip. Under these circumstances the speaker driver is fed DC, overheats and is permanetly damaged. The amplifier is presented with lower impedance and delivers greater current usually blowing its internal fuse in the process.

    The solution to both is to use a powerful amplifier in your audio system.

    Rolf

  8. #38
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    7,942
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveL300
    WOW I can’t believe the response on this thread.

    You are all really great and the information you are all writing about sounds solid. May I reel you back in for a moment? On my second post on this subject. I had addressed that I was wanting a simple setup. So bi-amping with tube and SS would probably be out of the question.

    A lot of you are writing about listening levels. My consideration for this is also simple. I just want to listen to music the way it was meant to be heard. I don’t want to bust any ear drums. But I have to admit that there are times when I like to feel the music as well as hearing it, like you would in a live performance. I think the L300’s can archive this without much problem.

    My listening room is approximately 16’ X 22” with a 9’ceiling. This is my home theater room which will now double as my music listening room.

    One thing I have neglected to say is back in 1977 through 1979 I was employed at JBL in the Quality Assurance department, testing dividing networks, drivers and speakers. When testing the drivers and speakers we used a 10 watt amp and a spectrum analyzer. We would then send a signal through the intended driver / speaker and check it with the spectrum analyzer. If it stayed within its intended range it would pass. I guess what I’m trying to say is I know JBL speakers are very efficient even at 10 watts they can get very loud.

    Thank you all for your input on this subject.
    If you are still open to suggestions and want something simple but the best call Mark Sammut at Reno HiFi. Mark handles factory reconditions Pass X Series amps. An X 250 or 350 would be the bee's knees given your background, room size and system requirements.

    http://www.marksammut.com/List.html

    $2499 for an X 250, game over Man.

  9. #39
    Senior Member porschedpm's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Reno/SF Bay Area
    Posts
    483
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
    If you are still open to suggestions and want something simple but the best call Mark Sammut at Reno HiFi. Mark handles factory reconditions Pass X Series amps. An X 250 or 350 would be the bee's knees given your background, room size and system requirements.

    http://www.marksammut.com/List.html

    $2499 for an X 250, game over Man.
    I'll second that emotion. The X Series Pass Labs amps are some sweet-ass-sweet sounding amps. And Mark Sammut is honest and a pleasure to deal with. Mark's Dad is a business associate of Nelson Pass, so Mark has an inside track on the Pass products. Even though most the amps are refurbished, they've all been gone through at Pass and carry a 1 or 2 year warranty. Pass Labs is still a relatively small Company and the pride they take in their work, even the refurbished stuff is apparent.

    Nelson Pass has been around since the 70's. His first designs were sold as Threshold Amps. I remember going to the Las Vegas CES show in 1977 when the Thresholds were just hitting the market. They were creating quite a stir because their sound was a huge jump in clarity and purity from most of the rest of the other high end stuff out there at the time. They were Class A amps. Class A amps weren't new but Pass was able to get some decent power figures out of the amps at a time when most other Class A amps produced not much more than a 15w/ch. Nelson Pass also did some design work for some Nakamichi amps (before they went mainstream). You can still find some of these early Thresholds and Nakamichis on audiogon.com. I'm not sure what happened to Threshold. I think the Company fell on hard times in the 80's due to competitive pressure from the consumer electronics market, but Nelson Pass left Threshold, opened Pass Labs in the early 90's and continued to make improvements to his amp designs.

    As far as my own experience, I had always used McIntosh equipment for my SS stuff. I then started playing around with a small 15w/ch tubed SET integrated amp. Which sounded great on my L-65's but when I purchased my pair of 4343's I needed more power to control the 15 inchers. So I pulled out my old 150w/ch Mac amp. I then decided to bi-amp the system and needed to get a another amp. I did a little research and liked what I read about Pass and their Class A. So I decided to try out a Pass X250 amp (250w/ch). I purchased it from Mark Sammut. I used the Pass X250 for the bottom end and the Mac MC-150 for the top. The top end was about the same. But I immediately noticed a huge improvement in the detail and authority on the bottom end. The more I listened the more I liked it. I attributed it mostly to the additional 100w/ch because I thought how much difference could an amp make anyway. Then, about 6 months ago, Ian Mackenzie challenged me to try the 4343's without bi-amping and driven by just Pass X250. OMG there was a huge improvement in the upper end clarity and detail, at just a small expense to the bass authority on the bottom end. Admittedly some of the improvement came from removing the Ashly active crossover out of the system but I feel that the at least half of the improvement came from running the top end with the Pass amp now instead of the Mac. Not that the Mac amp was any slouch, but to my ears, anyway I heard more than a slight improvement. This is when I became a avid believer in the Pass Labs amps. Anyway,sorry to ramble on but I wholeheartedly agree with Ian. The Pass X250 delivers Class A performance and can keep up with amps costing three or four times the price that you can get these for from Mark Sammut or on Audiogon. And, I feel with this amp you won't be giving very much at all by not bi-amping. And if you ever do bi-amp, add the matching 150w/ch Pass amp and you'll have a killer system that can't be beat. You'll never need to upgrade again.

  10. #40
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    9,720
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveL300
    So bi-amping with tube and SS would probably be out of the question.
    That's fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by SteveL300
    I just want to listen to music the way it was meant to be heard. I don’t want to bust any ear drums. But I have to admit that there are times when I like to feel the music as well as hearing it, like you would in a live performance.

    My listening room is approximately 16’ X 22” with a 9’ceiling.
    Even for chamber music, if you want it to sound real... I can't imagine less than 150 watts... the L300 is more sensitive than many of today's typical speakers... by quite a bit. 93dB vs. 86-87dB... but it's no Klipschorn either. (only talking sensitivity here boys)

    If you are into AC/DC, you'll need the Klipschorns.... I wonder if all Klipsch fans like that stuff?


    Widget

    BTW: I agree with the recommendations for the Pass Labs stuff... pricey but darn good.

  11. #41
    Senior Member grumpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    5,742
    If you are into AC/DC, you'll need the Klipschorns....
    paraphrased? - "If you're into evil, you're a friend of mine..."

    will have to go to the archives and see if that explains why the Khorns are still
    in the living room hulking in the corners.

    oops. did I type that or just think it ?

  12. #42
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    7,942
    They will certainly play better with some horse power.....But...you want clean watts to make that horn and slot sound sweet.

    Incidentally, Joseph Sammut was previously VP Kell International Sales, he is now President Passlabs

    X250 reviews:

    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...mp-8-2002.html

    http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...2/passx250.htm

    http://www.proaudioreview.com/august04/passlabs.shtml

  13. #43
    Administrator Mr. Widget's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    9,720
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie
    Incidentally, Joseph Sammut was previously VP Kell Intl Sales, he now President Passlabs
    I assume that was meant to read Krell Intl. Sales?

    That kind of scares me... I really think that Krell is the poster child of why people think high end audio is a joke. Beautiful stuff, that in my opinion doesn't sound as good as much more affordable gear. It has been brilliantly marketed though.


    Widget

  14. #44
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    7,942
    I have a problem with my keyboard...

    Would would not attempt to read anything into what I said..but I do know Krell sold well here for a time so there is definately a hi end market.

    Its a case of maintaining the critical mass.

  15. #45
    pangea
    Guest

    Powering L300

    I would like to share my experiences regarding power.

    Quite a few years back I had a pair of L300's, which then were powered by a Luxman 5M 21 rated at about 2x120W FTC 8 Ohm and 2x400W at 2 Ohm.
    I was in heaven for many years in the eighties.

    Now I have a pair of 2235's for the bottom end (see avatar) everything actively driven and the somewhat strange thing is that at first I had one Yamaha PC2602M to power both 2235's, that's about 260W/8 Ohm for each woofer. Then I was offered to buy another of these Yamaha's, which I did of course, so then I could bridge them and have each 2235 be fed by almost 800W/8 Ohm

    What struck me was that the bottom end control/punch was so much improved, even at moderate levels, that I'm still running the 2235's on one bridged Yamaha PC2602M each!

    Call me crazy, but who cares, I love it.

    BR
    Roland

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. PS Audio Power Ports
    By scott fitlin in forum Miscellaneous Gear
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 01-31-2010, 08:24 PM
  2. 2035H opinions
    By DS-21 in forum Lansing Product DIY Forum
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 10-20-2005, 10:57 AM
  3. Hafler power trannies
    By still4given in forum Professional Amps
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 09-21-2004, 05:29 PM
  4. JBL SUB 1500 power consumption etc
    By Niklas Nord in forum Lansing Product General Information
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-24-2004, 07:42 AM
  5. Is it the name or the power supply and output section??
    By Roland in forum Miscellaneous Gear
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-30-2003, 12:09 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •