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Thread: Two Channel Home Theater Test

  1. #46
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    Granted a lot of multichannel material sounds hokey, but then a lot of two channel stuff sounds hokey, too. There are factors bigger than two, three, four, five, six, or seven channels that affect the quality of the experience.

    For excellent stereo, some of the better speakers I've heard require a complex set-up regimen in a well-conditioned room to sound their best. Then they require the right audio chain feeding and driving them to maximize their performance. Once achieved, however, the stereo sound is mind boggling compared to what we usually hear in our much less than perfect rooms with our much less than perfect systems.

    In the realm of multichannel sound, the variables are even more complex and the set up regimen is even more daunting. The room itself becomes more difficult. The audio chain has increased demands as well, and its components are even more critical to overall success. When fully realized, it makes stereo a quaint, nostalgic experience.

    One of the things I admire about some speaker brands, JBL and Revel included, is the relative ease with which one can create a decent to very good stereo and multichannel experience with some of their stock systems. Trying to do the same thing with other brands (Bose, Paradigm, Sonus Faber, and MartinLogan come to mind) is fraught with frustration and disappointment for those who want a truly balanced and "accurate" system. These brands can sound "impressive" in stereo to many people, but they cannot sound "right" in multichannel applications IMO, at least not without a lot of work.

    While the set up and calibration that goes into a Synthesis system is beyond most of us, it's indicative of the kind of work that really should go into setting up a multichannel system. Of course, there are plenty of Synthesis systems that sound like crap because the installer took short cuts or was incompetent; or perhaps the owner insisted on foolish installation restrictions for aesthetic reasons. My personally set up and calibrated Performance Series sounds better than some of the Synthesis systems I've heard, but a properly set up Synthesis blows it away.

    Multichannel sound is much more than just getting some extra amps and speakers, hooking them up to a five or seven channel pre/pro, and pushing an auto-EQ button. This haphazard approach will satisfy some and horrify others. In the late 90s, my first multichannel set up with a ProLogic receiver, LaserDisc player, some L7s, L5s, a custom center and a sub was very impressive to me. However, compared to the pre/pro, amps, DVD player, and Performance Series gear of today's system, it was an atrocity.

    Stereo produces good sound with less effort. Multichannel takes much more effort. (Notice I'm only addressing audio here, not HT per se.)
    Out.

  2. #47
    MJC
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    Hokey doesn't even to begin to describe some recordings, stereo or multi. All voice from the right, all the instuments on the left and nothing in the middle, as I remember many early stereo LPs to be.

    And you're so right about the ease of setting up JBLs compared to other brands. The first Bose, the 801 or 901 whatever, one driver in the front, eight on the bi-face back, having to hang from the ceiling and away from the wall at exact distances, and still sounded like crap. One of the bar/restaurants I used to go to, over looking the ice rink, had them.

    When I first set up my LR for HT I had the L/R at the "suggested" 30* off center. I didn't keep that set up long. I moved the mirror imaged L212s to a point of about 8" past the sides of the 65" screen. This put the L/R drivers 7' apart(about what it was when it was just a stereo system, in a different house) and 5'+ from the side walls.
    Much better soundstage, in either 2 or 3 channel front. And being 5' from the side walls produces far less early reflections. I haven't bothered with bass traps or wall sound panels, but having full thick carpeting and large, fully padded recliners, along with a vaulted ceiling helps deaden the sound a bit. I'm sure there is room for improvement, but I think its better that a lot of set ups.

  3. #48
    Senior Member Ducatista47's Avatar
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    Intelligent discourse or hokum?

    Does this seem to hold water, or is it the product of water on the brain?
    http://www.stereotimes.com/comm032301a.shtml

    Forgive me if this article has already been referenced, but I'm on a computer with parental controls (no, not for me wiseacres ) and can't access the entire thread right now.

    Clark
    Information is not Knowledge; Knowledge is not Wisdom
    Too many audiophiles listen with their eyes instead of their ears


  4. #49
    Senior Member invstbiker's Avatar
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    Vote for 2 channel

    Personally, I am strictly two channel, because I want to emulate a concert stage and try to reproduce the concert as if it were live. I do not ever recall any live concerts that I've been to being performed in 5.1 or more. Actually, I should be playing in mono to be more accurate...
    "It only costs 80% extra to go first class"

  5. #50
    Senior Member fotodan's Avatar
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    The saga continues

    I tried the multi channel back in the early 90's with Kenwoods top of the line Pro Logdic surround and Hi-Fi VHS. It was different and enjoyable, but not much offering at the time, (not many tapes or TV offered surround at the time) and not enough outputs on the receiver for all anolog gear. Ended up selling it to a buddy. Now, not sure if I would go back to 5.1, still have the rear and center speakers. I would have to figure out a way to use both systems with the 4435's as main speakers, and I might give it a try again.

  6. #51
    JBL 4645
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    I’ve noticed continuity issues on some mixes seems like some of these re-recording mixers have to think three-dimensionally. Where’s with some films sound doesn’t match the differences between a forward viewing image and a reverse.

    One such film that I noticed this with was “Supergirl” (1984) six-track Dolby stereo.

    If I where to play pink noise from the left channel I’d hear it on my left ear with a late arrival on my right ear. Now if I where to turn around, I’d then hear the pink noise on my right ear, with a late arrival on my left ear.



    Sound panned to the left screen channel

    The chains clinker as they move around the sound is first heard on the screen left channel, then as we focus on “Supergirls” reactions the sound is misplaced its still heard on the screen left channel.



    Reversed image as we look at “Supergirl” the sound should be positioned to the right screen channel.



    As the camera moves back to the front or more rather this is done in the editing stages of the film, why didn’t someone notice this in post production that the sound was misplaced in position and continuity.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducatista47 View Post
    Call me a holdout, but I am still not won over by 5.1 HT.
    You're a definite holdout. G.T.'s system sounds killer in 5.1 and we both confess that we really like the format. It does exactly what it is supposed to do - entertain. I'm currently running in two channel (tweaked 4345's) while my Tannoy/JBL HT is being renovated. I've long since said goodbye to the old 4430/4406/2242, Ti Series and L Series (1980 era) HT setups as well as the L212 two-channel setup. I don't have any kind of conceptual problem with either format. It's just audio gear to be used at will and it's all pretty fun sometimes.

  8. #53
    JBL 4645
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giskard View Post
    You're a definite holdout. G.T.'s system sounds killer in 5.4 and we both confess that we really like the format. It does exactly what it is supposed to do - entertain. I'm currently running in two channel (tweaked 4345's) while my Tannoy/JBL HT is being renovated. I've long since said goodbye to the old 4430/4406/2242, Ti Series and L Series (1980 era) HT setups as well as the L212 two-channel setup. I don't have any kind of conceptual problem with either format. It's just audio gear to be used at will and it's all pretty fun sometimes.
    5.4? How does that work then I make a few guess but I’d like to read you’re version.

  9. #54
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    Typo, I fixed it. Too many 4's.

  10. #55
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    I heard Ti Dome's Performance Series surround sound system go..if only for a little while.

    Very nice.

    I think its a case of if you are fortunate or lucky enough you to have possession of such equipment then your experience, views and opinions will be likewise.

    Ian

  11. #56
    JBL 4645
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    Quote Originally Posted by Giskard View Post
    Typo, I fixed it. Too many 4's.

    Well that’s a relief I was beginning to think he’s got something unique.

  12. #57
    Senior Member Hoerninger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ducatista47 View Post
    Does this seem to hold water, or is it the product of water on the brain?
    http://www.stereotimes.com/comm032301a.shtml
    The author Ralph Glasgal (Ambiophonics Institute) does not hit the point IMHO:
    What about a 5.1 recording where the reverberant signal is produced by convolution?

    Convolution is an easy to handle way of producing reverberation in a studio with a great variety of results. The question is left how to distribute sound signals so that the listener will get a "perfect" illusion of space (psycho acoustics).

    As we have read in this thread there are pleasing results.
    ____________
    Peter

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBL 4645 View Post
    Well that’s a relief I was beginning to think he’s got something unique.
    Well, he definitely has a unique system... even more one-of-a-kind now than a few years ago. But that's not the primary focus of the thread so I'll drop it.

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
    I heard Ti Dome's Performance Series surround sound system go..if only for a little while.

    Very nice.

    I think its a case of if you are fortunate or lucky enough you to have possession of such equipment then your experience, views and opinions will be likewise.

    Ian
    Quite right. We all tend to favor that which we have. There's a certain amount of self-preservation in that.

    I didn't expect you to like the multichannel Performance Series system so soon after hearing the S2600s and a familiar tune.

    Twenty-four hours of sleep deprivation must've put you in a suggestible mood.

  15. #60
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    Hi Ti Dome.

    Sleep or no sleep I know a good system when I hear it.

    The S2600 is the best affordable consumer 2 way I have heard by a long way.

    But the Performance Series is so nice and compact ......how could you not have 5.1 or 7.1 set for home theatre. The sub was a real winner too.

    Ian

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