Two Channel Home Theater Test

[Ducatista47]

Call me a holdout, but I am still not won over by 5.1 HT. This link is close to my thoughts on the matter:
http://www.jolida.com/tube/hometheater.shtml
I am also waiting for the media sources to catch up; the Pretenders still sound much better on VHS than DVD in some cases. I'm sure audio hi fi quality is not a criterion for the mass market yet.
Still, I wanted to give a fair hearing to motion picture audio's contemporary strengths - the low, low frequency slam and ultra dymanic range found perhaps nowhere but in soundtracks. I've heard it ad nauseum on 5.1 in homes and shops, but I finally got the opportunity last night to "two channel classic JBL" it.
The family was out of town and a new DVD of War Of The Worlds was at hand, as were my 4333's. Denon 80 wpc was chosen over my usual tube rig. I set the volume to "live" vocal levels and didn't turn it down no matter how loud it got. It did get pretty damn loud. I set the playback to 2.0. I hadn't seen the film yet, so I was open to an unknown experience.

OH MY GOD. Was it great. With the presentation and sensation that resulted, I felt more than surrounded, I felt totally immersed. The soundstage was all over, but pinpoint in source when that was what was supposed to happen. I'm going to be harder to convince now, because 5.1 seems to have NOTHING to add to big JBL's on 2.0 as far as I can tell. I can only assume the quality - and size, frankly - of the transducers has more to do with the theater experience than surround technology and esoteric placement of the elements. Besides, who among us can tell with our eyes closed, or glued to a movie, where 30hz is coming from? Maybe James B. Lansing's quality execution of big cones plus horn in movie palaces wasn't so easy to improve after all...

I have an open mind, I'll keep listening, but I'm not shoping for a 5.1 rig anytime soon.

Clark in Peoria

[Titanium Dome]

"HOLDOUT!"

[Lancer]

We've been doing surround sound since Laserdiscs first came out... to argue about surround sound at this juncture is like arguing which stone tool is better for hollowing out a tree trunk to make a canoe.

I'm going to be harder to convince now, because 5.1 seems to have NOTHING to add to big JBL's on 2.0 as far as I can tell.

I guess the only people who could give a second of their time to care if you like 5.1 instead of 2.0 would be those who would love to sell you something. That said - you need to hook up with somone who has a 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 Synthesis, Performance Series, or Array Series surround sound system before you dismiss the medium in favor of ancient "43whatevers" in 2.0.

[Hamilton]

That said - you need to hook up with somone who has a 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 Synthesis, Performance Series, or Array Series surround sound system before you dismiss the medium in favor of ancient "43whatevers" in 2.0.

I hate disagreeing with what somebody likes....to each his own, but I'm with Lancer on this.

I just finished building a 5.1 system, with Zilch's extensive help, after owning the two channel Pro Logic for twenty years. My experience with the 5.1 has been nothing short of phenominal; it's not even a contest. I can't ever imagine going back...

[Ducatista47]

I've heard PLENTY of surround sound. All I'm saying is I'm not impressed by anything that in not a big improvement. Different and better are not the same entry in the dictionary for a good reason. And when CD's sound better than vinyl I'll admit that too. And welcome it!
Like I said, I'll always listen.

Now I'll go back to my cave and continue to make my flint tools.

Really, guys, thanks for the feedback. All is welcome, that's why I posted. For some reason I can't explain, I respect and admire you, Lancer.
And TD, your French seems to be better than my English. Where did you pick it up?
I was hoping to hear from you both and I'm not dissappointed.

Clark in Peoria, huddled by the fire with an eye out for cave bears...

[Ducatista47]

Did any of you guys read the link before pouncing?

[speakerdave]

As someone who has a strong preference for the old heavy-duty stuff in all things mechanical I'm surprised to be disagreeing--although not wholly. It's basically a financial argument that is made. It is, in fact, a huge additional expense to make an HT system OF EQUAL QUALITY. Many people have two systems, because there are many choices of good preamps, for example, in 2-channel, and none in 5.1, etc, that will play 2 channel well unless enormously expensive (by my standards).

But I am curious about HT and will eventually build a second system (of small classic JBL's probably), to have it. But I will not be looking to this system to hear surround DVD Audio or SACD. For one thing the systems are different, including speaker placement, as I understand it. Also I don't want to be in the middle of the band or orchestra. And to hear a vocal soloist, James Taylor for example, coming from all around you is ridiculous.

David

[Audiobeer]

Hey Duc, I'll be finished with my system after the first of the year....maybe. It will consist of 7 4313Bs for HT and 1 Triad Gold in room sub. I'll have a pair of 4430s for 2 channel listening. I'll have you down for an A/B. I listened to the very same DVD you did. My wife and I both commented how the 2 channel sound was great on this film. We both expressed dissapointment that we couldn't listen to it in 5.1, That being said I look forward to you checking it out after your down for a Cardinals game. Even though your into vinyl I know you can't be a cubs fan! Just kidding!!!!!! (Anout the vinyl-Cubs fan thing)

[Ducatista47]

As someone who has a strong preference for the old heavy-duty stuff in all things mechanical I'm surprised to be disagreeing--although not wholly. It's basically financial argument that is made. It is, in fact, a huge additional expense to make an HT system OF EQUAL QUALITY. Many people have two systems, because there are many choices of good preamps, for example, in 2-channel, and none in 5.1, etc, that will play 2 channel well unless enormously expensive (by my standards).

But I am curious about HT and will eventually build a second system (of small classic JBL's probably), to have it. But I will not be looking to this system to hear surround DVD Audio or SACD. For one thing the systems are different, including speaker placement, as I understand it. Also I don't want to be in the middle of the band or orchestra. And to hear a vocal soloist, James Taylor for example, coming from all around you is ridiculous.

David

I couldn't agree more! I guess I'm willing at this point to nearly go into hock to reproduce a musical performance, but look for something a little different from "motion pictures."
Movies that are not about soundtrack and other post production effects are far more effective to me. Deals and equipment are no substitute for director's craft, writing talent, acting and cinematography. That is something that will never change. The Whole Wide World will always be worth seeing and Pearl Harbor never will. All things being equal, though, I'm sure someday I'll try surround.

[Ducatista47]

Even though your into vinyl I know you can't be a cubs fan! Just kidding!!!!!! (Anout the vinyl-Cubs fan thing)

Thanks, Audiobeer (still a great screenname). I have only been a Cubs fan for fifty of my years, so there is hope. And believe me, I love my CD's!!!
If an mp3 is all I have of a good piece of music, I enjoy it early and often. And I can't get rid of my crappy vinyl fast enough.

Clark the Cro-magnon, apparently

[Titanium Dome]

Did any of you guys read the link before pouncing?

Truth be told, I considered some Jolida tube amps when I bought my Fosgate FAP T1 a couple of years ago from United Audio. It was a very attractive package deal. After reading the Jolida position on HT, I was a little confused on why they'd partner with a major supplier to sell six amps to me when they were somewhat lukewarm to MC sound. (Besides making money, of course.)

I think the economics of their observations are reasonable, but their argument is weak once that variable is removed. Of course a multi-channel system will cost more. There's more parts. My first real MC set up was all used JBLs that once retailed for thousands but cost just over a thousand used.

One motivator for me to invest in the Performance Series was to avoid having several average speakers for an average MC set up. I wanted speakers excellent enough for two-channel sound and MC sound. JBL now makes several good systems for that, and they're all expensive by consumer standards.

I think your preference for two-channel is valid given a certain reality, like "I want to have two very good speakers rather than five so-so speakers."

But if you want to compare two-channel to MC based on overall performance (rather than cost), it's a different outcome IMO. I'd rather have seven excellent speakers.

[Ducatista47]

But if you want to compare two-channel to MC based on overall performance (rather than cost), it's a different outcome IMO. I'd rather have seven excellent speakers.

Partially quoted here, all true. I do like the old stuff, but seven 4345's are a little out of my reach (that's 3 1/2 % of all the units ever made!) and my room size. Still, on my budget, the classic monitors are such a bargain next to newer quality units. Imagine what it would cost to manufacture 4345's (or my 4333's) today. But you are of course completely correct.

My 60 X 2 JoLida is gathering dust in favor of a six wpc Grommes. These monitors are efficient...

Now, your Fluent French. Where? How? Not only did I miss the whole French Foreign Legion experience (DeGaulle isn't going to make me march in Paris carrying a shovel) but, Like Korben Dallas, I only speak two languages, English and Bad English.

Clark-Magnon in Peoria

[Hamilton]

Did any of you guys read the link before pouncing?

I was hoping NOT to pounce, but yep, I read it. It seemed more concerned about staying on a budget vs building a stellar system. But what does an old worn out mechanic know...

[Ducatista47]

I was hoping NOT to pounce, but yep, I read it. It seemed more concerned about staying on a budget vs building a stellar system. But what does an old worn out mechanic know...

If I had you and Zilch building my system, I'm sure I'd be happy with it if you had used Dr. Bose's wretched casket as a starting point. And I happen to be an old worn out camera repairman, cemetery salesman, metal sprinkler and powder coat peon, bookstore jockey, hippie protestor, high-end photo lab idiot, lawn aerrator, scholar, Cubs fan, motorcyclist, artist, bicycle junkie and God knows what else. Being an old worn out mechanic would give me much more street cred.

Clark-magnon in Peoria

[Hamilton]

Clark, that is quite a resume!

Mine is not so broad, I now specialize in three areas :

old
grumpy
ugly

...in no particular order.

Hey, we've hi-jacked your own thread!