Charge Coupling on the Cheap

[Ian Mackenzie]

The current drain is miniscule.

I am using a new std alkaline 9 volt, I measured it at 9.4 volts in circuit. ( volt batteries are used for low noise current sources in some analgue electronics.)

I have heard batteries used for a DAC PS and I did not like it. Sounded tired and dirty, but a DAC draws a lot of current.

I could hook up another PS but its a practical PITA.

It is what it is.

Ian

[Thom]

While I can't see that it should make a difference, or that you shoulden't be able to fillter the "noise" out. They do make lithium replacements for 9volt batterys and since mercury batterys are no longer available, this maybe your most stable voltage source. 2 questions. does the 9 volt battery go between the two terminals marked 9v? Does polarity make a difference, oops heres 3 has anybody scoped this setup to see if anything remains biased during operation. Could this all have come up from someone having seen some drawing somewere that someone way back well you get the idea maybe all they had was cheap electrolytics and they were trying to keep them alive while they weren't being used because not having a charge was something they really didn't like. I'm not trying to say that's what this is. I'm not nearly that arrogant but things like that do happen. How much does a house have to cost for their dryer lint to be acceptable to damp a high end speaker system?

[Zilch]

I use the lithiums so I can bury them inside the cabinets and not worry about them for 10+ years....

[Ian Mackenzie]

Given the freelance sock puppetry we have on the forums and the fact that certain influences from JBL are particular keen on seeing me disappear I will be taking the precaution of opening a thread over on diyaudio.com speakers about the biasing of the Solens.
I plan to try alternative bias voltages and power sources, it should be fun! This is for the benefit of those who want to know the true facts.

best

Ian

[Thom]

Im not sure what that was, I hope I wasn't part of it.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Does anyone know if Solen fast caps are directional?

[rek50]

I've bounced that concept on a couple of "Cap Alchemists". It wasn't
aimed at Solen, but caps in general.
What I got from all the "Talk" was to wire all the caps the same, using
+ input as the reference point. It might have been "Jeff" that hinted
"If I split a frog hair enough, it won't matter, 'cause I won't be able to see it..."

At any rate Ian, thanks for your "Insight" on the delicate "CC" matter.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I've bounced that concept on a couple of "Cap Alchemists". It wasn't
aimed at Solen, but caps in general.
What I got from all the "Talk" was to wire all the caps the same, using
+ input as the reference point. It might have been "Jeff" that hinted
"If I split a frog hair enough, it won't matter, 'cause I won't be able to see it..."

At any rate Ian, thanks for your "Insight" on the delicate "CC" matter.

Thankyou rek50.

I will have a look.

Ian

[Robh3606]

If the parts are not marked as polarity sensitive during the manufacturing process how do you know if they were all "marked" in the same direction????? Unless they are specifically marked or you know for a fact that when they are marked it is done with all the parts in the same orientation it's a 50/50 you will get it right. Part marking is one of the last operations done after they are tested and graded for tolerance.

Rob

[Ian Mackenzie]

The easy way is the ask Solen.

If you understand how these capacitors are wound there is an in and an out.

[Robh3606]

The easy way is the ask Solen.

If you understand how these capacitors are wound there is an in and an out.

Yes but most polarized parts have asymetrical cases so when they go through all the automatic machine handling they can be set-up in the proper orientation for test and marking. Parts with symetrical cases can't be handed the same way through the test and sorting process. If you look at the construction it should be the same/similar for both sides of the cap. On both sides you have foil/film layers attached to each lead seperated by the dielectric. Typically they are the same construction on both sides so they are mirror images so there is no "in or out". Any of the Militorized capacitors such as ceramic, mica, glass, paper of film capacitors are manufactured this way.

Rob

[Ian Mackenzie]

Yes exactly, But I have seen application notes for these more exotic parts that specify the red dot goes this way around.

If I can find a diagram I will post it.

Ian

http://reviews.ebay.com/ABCs-of-FILM...:-1:LISTINGS:6
Modern film capacitors are non-polar, so you don't have to worry about polarity when replacing old paper caps with new film capacitors. Although non-polar, old paper capacitors had black bands at one end. The black band indicated which end of the paper capacitor had some metal foil (which acted as a shield). The end with the metal foil was connected to the ground (or lowest voltage). The purpose of the foil shield was to make the paper capacitor last longer.


I write to Solen repards polarity and biasing:


Dear Sir,

1. They are non-polarized, however the triple "S" logo is the in side.

2. They are fast caps and do not benefit from pre-loading, this is only done when using poor quality electrolytic caps.

Regards,
Chris

Solen Inc.
4470 Av. Thibault
St-Hubert, QC J3Y 7T9

[Ian Mackenzie]

Broken Lead Result of issues

As a practical matter of routine maintenance I discovered a damaged interconnect lead in the system from the pre to the power amp. There was some intermittent hum from the right channel and I traced it to the RCA plug after discovering a buzz when the lead was moved.

The inner conductor of the right channel had fractured due to flexing and broken off the inner pin with wear and tear over time. I figure it finally broke when everything was moved during some renovations recently. The signal was probably induced into the amp via capacitance of the shield. I am surprised it worked at all.

Therefore, I plan to start over on the evaluations shortly.

My inital impressions following repairs to the lead are very good and I feel a bit happier that there is at least some rational explanation behind the earlier issues.

I also have a brand new professional digital co axial cable to ensure the best possible results with the charge-coupled network.

Ian

[Ian Mackenzie]

Capacitor PolarityAll film capacitors are directional in as much as one lead of the capacitor is attached to the innermost foil and the other lead to the outer foil layer. There is a small audible difference to be heard, depending on which direction any film capacitor is oriented in a particular circuit. There is also some disagreement as to the preferred orientation from user to user, and manufacturer to manufacturer. The most logical suggestion is to attach the outer foil lead closest to ground, thereby taking advantage of the inherent shielding of the outermost foil, but this may not necessarily sound best to you. The manufacturer of the Hovland capacitors suggest that the outer foil be at the source side in coupling applications or at the highest potential in power supplies, opposite to what one might expect. The manufacturer of the Wonder Cap/InfiniCaps/DynamiCaps has recommended both orientations depending on the particular vintage. Experiment and see which orientation you prefer. In order to determine which lead is outer, and which is inner foil, we use the following procedure for capacitors that are not marked to identify which is which. First, establish a good signal source. We use a signal generator supplying a 1K sine wave at about 15 volts, but you could use almost any combination of equipment that will output some kind of relatively steady low frequency signal. A CD player with a test CD playing a steady tone into a preamp turned to full output probably would work very well. You will also need a voltmeter with reasonably sensitive AC measuring capability. Attach test leads from the plus and minus output of your signal source to the two leads of your capacitor. Next wrap a wide piece of copper braid, any type of conductive material, even multiple turns of wire, around the body of the capacitor, assuring intimate contact over most of the capacitor surface. Take just the hot lead of your voltmeter and attach it to the braid or wire wrapped several turns around the capacitor (voltmeter ground lead is not attached to anything). Note the reading you get on your voltmeter. Now reverse the connection to the capacitor leads from your signal source and note the new reading. Whichever reading was highest indicates that the plus lead from your signal source was attached to the outer foil lead of your capacitor. You are just inductively measuring the strength of the signal on the outer foil of your capacitor. That's it!

Bias voltaging does have some advantages I'm advised, but I've not personally tried it.

C/- Michael Percy

[Robh3606]

Thanks Ian

Inside/outside makes sense due to the orientation of the foil layers. In/Out or Input/output is a toss up of personal preference or circuit topology. Seems like there is no absolute right way to install these unless you want to take the time and build a jig to listen for a diffrence based on which foil layer you attach your input signal too. Providing of course they are marked like the Solens.

Rob