Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 49

Thread: Zilch Cloth Installation

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    Senior Member saeman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Near Chicago
    Posts
    624

    Zilch Cloth Installation

    At the request of several forum members I'll start this thread to discuss the options I've tested to install grille cloth on the wood framework. Hopefully other members will chime in, not with their failures, but with additional techniques for success.

    Since receiving my bundle of blue cloth from Zilch I have completed a pair of 4343 grilles and two complete sets of 4350 grilles. After the initial frustrations of trying to establish my process, I am now producing grilles that are EXACTLY as those done by JBL. My first grille took over an hour and required my wife's help. Knowing that JBL would not accept that kind of labor time I kept trying new ideas. My last grille took about 20 minutes to install the cloth, by myself. I'll consider that acceptable for now.

    To get the most out of this thread I'll need to eventually include some pictures. When I do my next grille I'll get pics to show some of the details. For now babbling will have to do.

    The first requirement is to choose the type of glue to use. First I tried hot melt glue. I bought a gun and enough glue sticks to do a bunch of grilles. What A Disaster - First problem is that it sets up way too fast. If you're trying to achieve a 1/2" to 3/4" glued border around the frame, there's no way to get an even coat of glue under the border cloth. Rolling the cloth down over the hot glue using a veneer roller was the only way to avoid lumps of glue under the cloth. In many places the glue bled thru the cloth and left an ugly appearance. I then tried wood glue, gorilla glue, construction adhesive and contact cement. Since I use wood glue for all of my veneer work I had high hopes. When veneering you let it dry and then reactivate it with heat. It requires that you coat both surfaces however and you cannot put a coat on the cloth, not knowing exactly where your glue line will be. Method failed !! Gorilla glue and construction adhesive dry too slow and nobody has enough hands to hold the cloth in place until it sets; so forget those options. Contact Cement turned out to be the choice.

    With the frame face down I masked all around the frame leaving an exposed 3/4" border. Most original grilles appear to have a 1/2" border - your choice. After that I brush applied 2 coats of contact cement (not the cheap water based stuff, but the smelly kind that gives you a headache after a while). Let the glue fully dry to the touch. I had a few that sat for a whole day and had no problems. One coat will not be enough as there needs to be enough glue so that when heated, it penetrates into the cloth. 3 coats might be too much and it may bleed thru the cloth and foul your iron surface.

    Until you get your technique down, cut the cloth with a full 2" border in excess of what you need to cover the frame. Lay the cloth down flat and center the grille frame on the cloth. Plug in your wife's clothes iron and get ready. Pick a corner, any corner, and pull the cloth up over the corner and over your glue border. Take the tip of the iron and press the cloth into the glue just 1" on either side of the exact corner. Go to the next closest corner and stretch the cloth laterally from your glued corner to your new corner (hope that makes sense). You need to get a feel of how much the cloth will stretch. Stretch it to 2/3 rds of it's limit and press the second corner into the glue the same as the first. Remember to keep the frame centered on the cloth while tacking down the 4 corners. Go to one of the farther corners and repeat the stretching and tacking process. Do the same for the 4th corner. If the frame is long, as my 4350's were, go to each side at the center and tack it down. Remember to stretch the cloth from the first side tack to the second before you do the second side tack.

    This seems like a bunch of rambling but maybe with pics added later it will all make sense.

    The goal is not to just cover the frame, but to achieve a perfect corner that is "wrapped" with no cuts or mitres. Properly stretching the cloth when tacking down the corners is the only way to ensure a good end result.

    The frame is now sitting with the corners tacked down. Pick a corner and start an inch at a time, working away from the corner. Stretch the cloth over the glue and apply heat. Once you get 3-4 inches away from the corner in each direction, the job gets 10 times easier. If you stretch the cloth to it's limit it may put too much pressure on your glue and cause future problems. If you do not stretch enough the cloth will sag or blow in the breeze of a big woofer. For now I think stretching to 2/3 of it's limit is the way to go. If you don't take most of the stretch out at the corners you will have the cloth bunched up and have no place to get rid of it.

    With the cloth tacked down around the entire perimeter, take a pair of scissors and trim off most of the excess. After that take a straight edge and utility knife and finish trim as "EVEN" as you can get with your 3/4" taped glue line. It's important to trim off all cloth that does not have glue under it. If you do not the exposed edge will fray and leave an untidy appearance. After the edge is finish trimmed take your iron and a veneer roller completely around the perimeter for a final set.

    This procedure, if I haven't made it too complicated, has given me perfect results. I may edit this several times in case I have forgotten something or can make it easier to understand. Chime in with any questions.
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  2. #2
    Senior Member spkrman57's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    2,018

    Looks great!

    Definitely some great craftmanship involved here!

    Ron

  3. #3
    Senior Member Hamilton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Posts
    229
    What brand of glue ended up being your favorite?

    Thanks.
    There are two theories to arguing with women, but...neither has worked.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Flodstroem's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    472

    Thank you riessen

    Excellent, a very good "manual" how to do it. Great explanation. Shall save a bookmark to this post so I easily can find it when Im working with grill cloth. Looking forward to see the pictures you would like to ad to this thread

    Regards
    Flodstroem

  5. #5
    Senior Member Audiobeer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    St. Peters, Mo just west of St. Louis.
    Posts
    2,407
    Great tips! On the corners since your not using a mitre cut is this method compressing the material enough that it isn't noticeable? Thanks again!

  6. #6
    Steve Gonzales
    Guest

    Hot glue

    Great job Rick!

    One thing I wanted to share about the hot glue method is that (I think) you tried to run a bead all the way around the frame in one pass?. What needs to be done is akin to your contact cement method. A thin, 6" (max) bead needs to be laid down at a time for it to work. Then a small piece of wood is to be used to press it in place. Also, you've got to get a feel for how much that is with a few practice runs with small scaps. My L220 grills have mitred corner cuts and I think a few other models do also. I wouldn't dismiss this method so quickly. I have done quite a few grills with it and they look factory also. Some pictures of your initial steps/process[s] would be great and I applaud you for figuring this other technique out and sharing it. Keep up the good work, Regards, Steve G
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  7. #7
    Senior Member John W's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Renton, WA
    Posts
    593
    Thanks reissen for this excellent how-to. I just finished installing the cloth on my grill frames using the method outlined here and it worked perfectly.

  8. #8
    analogman
    Guest

    Nice Method

    Thank you much, I like it, I like it.
    What temp setting on the iron works the best for you?
    Thank you again,
    Analogman

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    San Jose
    Posts
    846
    It's probably good that the hot glue didn't work out for you. I understand that there are some industrian hot melt adhesives that melt at quite high temperatures and then the remelt temperature is even hotter, but the common hot glue that most of us have access to has no strength whatsoever in the summer in Fresno, Sacramento, much of Arizona. You get the picture so it's probably a good thing that you switched glues.

  10. #10
    Senior Member bigstereo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Hamburg, NY
    Posts
    192

    Another successful Zilch cloth Installation!

    Thanks, riessen for posting the instructions. I used your method and they turned out pretty nice. The backs did'nt turn out as nice as yours but hey, nobody is going to notice. BTW this was my first attempt at this. I'm very pleased.
    Also thanks to GordonW for the beautiful job on the 2214 surrounds. And to Zilch for making the blue cloth available. I LOVE THESE SPEAKERS!

    P.S. Sorry about the crappy focus. Guess I still have'nt learned how to use a digital camera.




  11. #11
    Senior Member bigstereo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Hamburg, NY
    Posts
    192

    Just for kicks.......

    here is what the grills looked like when I bought the speakers.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    61

    Screen spline

    I have done L-100s, 65s, 150s, 4312, even 212s this way. Install a router upside under a table or buy a router table. Use a 1/8 inch straight bit. Put a fence about 3/8 in on back of grill and router a groove all the way around about 3/16 deep. It is very easy to do. Buy a pack of 1/8 inch screen spline at the hardware store and the roller installer tool. I install the spline on opposite sides then pull it back from the corner and re-pull the cloth back and re-install. Easy and perfect every time. Easy to pull the spline out and install new cloth. Never a wrinkle. I cut the excess with a razor blade. The groover is tighter and works better in MDF I have made but it also works on the JBL particle board. You will never touch glue again.

  13. #13
    RIP 2014 Ken Pachkowsky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Baja, Mexico
    Posts
    1,696

    Zilch Cloth?

    As I recall, it was Steve xxx from Bakersfield,Ca that found the source for JBL Blue cloth? Am I mistaken?


    Ken

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Winnipeg Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    2,291
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Pachkowsky View Post
    As I recall, it was Steve xxx from Bakersfield,Ca that found the source for JBL Blue cloth? Am I mistaken?


    Ken
    Yes Ken ,you are correct and then he hooked up Zilch and the rest is history.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Woody Banks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    676
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Pachkowsky View Post
    As I recall, it was Steve xxx from Bakersfield,Ca that found the source for JBL Blue cloth? Am I mistaken?


    Ken
    Ken
    You are correct! It was Steve, but I don't think you have his last name spelled correctly.

    Woody

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. L300 Grill Cloth Measurements
    By majick47 in forum Lansing Product Technical Help
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 09-02-2006, 10:33 AM
  2. Help with L100 cloth grill frames?
    By wpod in forum Lansing Product Technical Help
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-20-2005, 12:20 PM
  3. JBL Blue Cloth
    By saeman in forum Lansing Product DIY Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-06-2005, 11:35 PM
  4. foam vs cloth
    By 57BELAIRE in forum Lansing Product Technical Help
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: 05-15-2005, 08:26 AM
  5. Grille cloth
    By RickL166 in forum Lansing Product General Information
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-29-2005, 11:23 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •